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Episode 250: Lyndon LaRouche: Assassins Creed III (Patreon)

Published:
2022-10-19 13:06:02
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:16:00
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We take a trip with Marlon Ettinger to a LaRouche Conference in Manhattan and  talk about the nature of truth and reality 

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Comments

Daniel Goffe

The debate around multipolarity, that you can’t have socialism if your government pays for imports in dollars unless the US government says so. That’s key to discerning the war issue, also understanding if a Trade Union organises amongst managers, civil servants at government level, and especially military as well as bus drivers such as Unite in the UK, or as well as theatre workers and tv workers as in Prospect in the UK, which means those Unions have imperialist tendencies.

Полинкаж 'Polinkazh'

I am honestly shocked Liz hadn't heard of Patriotic Socialism, MAGA Communism, Haz, or Jackson Hinkle before this. I mean they're all clowns but your millenial is showing.

D G

Liz, I think your audience would appreciate it if you tried to work out what you want to say before you start speaking. You frequently display an extraordinary ability to stretch potentially short and/or simple statements into extremely long-winded, meandering mish-mashes of incomplete thoughts, asides, self-interruptions and filler phrases. A particularly egregious example of this starts at about 1:12:53 which I've attempted to transcribe below: "I think, too – like something just to add on to that – is that, you know, having that kind of confusion and, again, I want to bring into the– that the confusionists, which is that, like, online itself, like, has, you know, if we thought that like America – particularly in American politics – that there were always – you know, everyone loves the “G” word – grifters and hucksters and liars and, you know, salesman of all different kinds, right – like that's all true – but the internet has made it– has, like, exploded it, and these… even people with the best of intentions, I think, you know… that… they go on these platforms and they start – once you make that decision to, kind of, make that leap, I guess… and being that kind of personality, or even if it's… it's… even if it's… it's, um, you know, subconscious in some ways, like, the incentives that are built into these platforms will drive you to become more huckstery without noticing it I think…so because you are automatically in service of, you know: the likes, the retweets, the followers, the whatever – that's how this thing builds, and, so, in order to do that, you have to, kind of, you know, up the stakes in what you're saying constantly – you have to be more: “Sure, I know this, I know that, this is this, this is that, I'm this p–”, you know what I mean? And… that's cuz that's what people respond to and then you see the things going up ding ding ding ding.” After several read-throughs, I think all you were trying to say was something along the lines of: "Hucksters, grifters and salesmen have amplified the levels of deception used on the internet to the point where even well-intentioned people are being incentivised towards more ipsedixitistic behaviour."

Sneakaboard

Really helpful feedback to share several years after the fact.

Sega Dream Cat

It has been 3 years and this is unfortunately more true than ever.

D G

Still applicable on the more current episodes.

Jason

Shut up ya fuckin loser

D G

Really smart response. Are you Liz's baby daddy? Or just trying to be?

Scotty Kassel

I would shit if y’all came to Mississippi

Graham Hoese

The new TrueAnon studio is actually locked in my root cellar, I told them to play it cool or else Marcos gets it.

Go'Thrak

Bill Maher over here with these New Rules

Colin Andrews

Lots of paranoid commies up here in Boston hoping for a show!

original gay pussy eatah

oh i jerked off too much i can’t see!!! my eyes dont work anymore bc i cummed so much!!!

Ethical_tweaker

Bruh y'all suck why aren't you coming to Minneapolis/st. Paul? I was looking forward to doing a bunch of ketamine and awkwardly sitting in the audience.

Joshua Garcia

GreyZone/JimmyDore sometimes say questionable things.

Hugo

What are brace and lizz’s critiques of Trotskyism?

Mark Owen

Were you there (When they crucified My Lord?) There's a good version from Hootenanny Hoot where Johnny Cash walks offscreen while the Carter Family keeps singing, must've needed something.

Mark Owen

Rubble and Chocolate Soup for Diabetics comps.

Graham Hoese

If we set up a few chairs at Minnehaha park, play TrueAnon episodes on a speaker, and do just enough ketamine, maybe we can convince ourselves we're at the live show.

Kate Baldwin

The fear I feel everytime Brace says mattress and girl. I think it's gonna be the rat mattress story

Ethical_tweaker

Dude I'm down, like actually that sounds like a great time.

Yup

Liz coming at the Julia Fox, weird navel fan club

Brendan Garcia

I think the appeal of contradictory ideas is just a symptom of a society and a media culture in which everyone is lying to you in one way or another all the time.

Matthew Auerbach

COME TO TORONTO OR YOU’RE OPPRESSING CANADIANS

gaylord

Happy birthday 🥳

Chris

Brace called us normal people :)

VanLeft

Them: "Think like Beethoven" Me: "The dog? right?"

Graham Hoese

Just that every time you say Trotskyism a bunch of nerds materialize from thin air asking what's wrong with Trotskyism.

Samuel Cain

Good thing I’ve got the brain scans! Seriously though, insane dictate

Hunbun

Happy birthday!

Vincent

If two people are debating, that doesn't mean one of them is right. It does, however, mean that neither of them values their time.

Aaron Slater

Liz's Lovely Navel. True Anon make that a shirt.

Some Guy

Bringing me back to my Catholic school days with that "were you there when they crucified my Lord", whew

George P

“At least I had the decency to do heroin” lmao

Junior Carmichael

Did the term "green fascism" originate with LaRoucherites? I don't remember seeing it before the green new deal push.

sammi sweetheart

👁 EPISODE REQUEST: Assisted suicide as a mental health solution. Much cheaper for governments than improving quality of life for citizens. Eugenics and population control, marketed as a progressive step on a human rights issue. WTF?

K Barlas

When you guys talk about debate culture I think you may have understated the level of aggressive stupidity in those debates a bit. Like this Haz guy, I once saw a clip of one of his debates cause that patsoc guy Jay Tharappel posted it, and oh man. It was him and some Nazi who sounded like he weighed 35kgs and was the width of a pencil, and they were arguing idealist shit the whole time, Heidegger or whatever. And this Haz guy, his entire schtick, is screaming at and berating people in like a really hyperbolic and uncomfortable way. Like it felt like I was overhearing domestic abuse is the only way to put it, the way he engages with people is by basically domineering and belittling people, talking about how they're Virgins, they're pathetic, yelling over them, forcing them to admit that they're pathetic, its very strange and fucked up. All the more insane that he's now got any kind of prominence

K Barlas

Brace is right about the draft btw, crazy how many communists disagree with that, it's classic engels

Justlistening

Had to pause halfway through cause it’s like a fever dream lol

Scot Forsythe

Ah yes the original misinformation troll for hire, La Douche!

Shawn Hayes

This da best podcast, after cumtown of course

meyer

Would love their take on this

Michael S. Judge

I love General Sirloin. He is [forefingers to my throbbing temples] based

Michael S. Judge

But counterpoint is just 2 (or more) different musical parts that play off each other. The 2 guitars at the beginning of "Marquee Moon" are a really basic example. There are way more regimented and torturous and baroque forms of counterpoint, which I'm sure the LaRouchians consider mandatory, but counterpoint itself is just part of how music works

zach miller

"and then this little 5 foot tall woman comes up" I THOUGHT HE WAS REFERRING TO HAZ IM DEAD LMFAO

John Harwood

A little bit like how storytelling, or even just talking, works. Let alone dialectical reasoning.

Juliette DeMaso

You guys are doing the thing where you call people in their 30’s + “young people”

LIL CHEEKS

What is braces thoughts on Kanye ?

Hugo Svanborg

Greta is on the streets here, currently mainly for the Kurdish cause

Lydia Maria Child

Sometimes. But they're also more often correct than not...by a large margin. Point being? Sheep herding for corporate dems is loser shit.

Doug Cartel

wait, so Larouche had people do struggle sessions to yell about why chinese struggle sessions were bad? Thats meta as hell

Doug Cartel

is it me or is there some new strain of "the ancients were right" thinking going on, but instead of looking to ancient chinese medicine for truth or whatever its just rich european laudanum addicts from 1820

Dylan

JD is now advocating people vote for republicans as the lesser evil. Also very very stupid.

Joshua Garcia

GOP has become the smaller of evils for contemporarily denouncing obviousness. I wish we’d get smarter. When I lived in PDX I’d pass a “Vote Republican, support the wealthy” sign as if the other party didn’t also. Sigh. Sports teams.

Joshua Garcia

They are better than others but often align themselves with kooks simply to have more soldiers.

Evan Scott

Jimmy Dore is like a perfect expression of the what I think is a brand of the confusionism that liz talks about, where nothing he says is motivated by a political project or ideology just pure personal animus against the world because he thinks he should be more popular and famous even though he's just a hack 90s comedian. There is no way to track down a consistent politics in what he says because he just says shit to piss off people he doesn't like, and when you do that you end up with an incoherent mess of ideas

Evan Scott

his affect is also just so irritating

Joshua Garcia

JD like some others are contrarians. Occasionally they make a point but it’s largely based on “owning” and not a solution. Super similar to conservative influencers. That must be why he’s popular with both sides. I showed a clip of JD to my conservative dad who loved it. I then told him JD was considered a “leftist”. He had no idea.

Evan Scott

I wouldn't call him popular with either side, he has a small cult following of people with a similar contrarian pathology but I think most people just find him very off putting. There is something appealing to Gen X/Boomer conservatives in his style since it's very dated but you're never going to get the 'reach across the aisle' thing with them when they can just have Tucker

Joshua Garcia

I view him like a court jester, not making an impact mostly there for occasinnal laughs.

Intothavortex

The true anon theme morphs into ‘the loco-motion’ every time it gets stuck in my head. Send help

Adam B

It’s just a weird tradition on the left to be this sectarian against another left grouping. Almost as bizarre as whatever they accuse Trots of. Being a devoted listener to this pod is already nerd shit.

John Swan

LOL could not have said it better

Adam B

Anyone that has such a knee jerk sectarianism towards Trots refuses to think of any group other than Sparts or SEP while the only principled independent Marxist in US political office is a Trotskyist and SAlt is just as normal as anyone who is politically active.

John Swan

Just take the damn Frère Jacques pill bro

ClownBabee24

All these people would be so much better off if they logged off every once in a while and read things

Dylan

Still looking to sell two tickets to the Nov 1 show in Chicago. Tickets were $25 plus a $9.75 fee per ticket. Flexible on the price. DM me if you're interested.

Adam

Talk about insufferable. This whole episode was like “They are SO wrong, we know everything. We are the arbiters of truth!” Hella annoying

Adam

Brace: “…aggressively denouncing these other people and then saying I’m right.” This is exactly what you all are doing! LOL

Kompromatic

Larouchites are wrong tho

Doug Cartel

Fair enough, time is a flat circle etc

Arben

yeah but he is

Marcus

Did Marlon ever make it to the toilet?

John Swan

I keep forgetting to smoke too much weed and pretend I’m in college before listening to these types of episodes.

Some Guy

When do we get the compilation of TrueAnon rules?

pod accoster

delivered in the style of Bill Maher's New Rules

gill

mehmet got free and ran for freedom

gill

i had much younger siblings so i had to suffer through the era where beethoven had puppies with their own adventures. and for those of you going "MANDELA EFFECT CERN WAS SWITCHED ON!"...yes both beethoven and air bud both had puppies with their own adventures...you only remember air bud's puppies cause they could speak in english

Dr. Ron Jambo

Counterpoint narrowly defined was important from about 1300–1800, but could be argued to be fundamental to all traditional occidental music. I can tell Yung Chomsky is into it from his Muselaer Theme for The Game. Also, all of my zoomer students are interested in counterpoint. You need more? I wish the Ladouche crowd wouldn't sully that stuff with their disgusting confusionism. Also, these tuning conspiracy theories are beyond bullshit but perfect for a certain kind of audience.

lilfukka

I have tickets to Bowery Ballroom and Teragram Ballroom that I can’t use. Hmu if you are interested. Thanks:) isabelleroehrig@posteo.net

Evan Scott

This is why people don't like you lol

Evan Scott

Half this episode is making fun of people who are ostensibly Leninists but make one throw away comment about trots and you're the reason the nationalists won in Spain

Demented Avenger

"Like Vaush, only for LaRouche," sounds like potentially the most annoying combination of time.

Jessica S

The gleeful bomb-happy folks are clearly not anti-war by any stretch of the imagination. Their self-proclaimed anti-war bonafides should only be mentioned in the context of disproving it. Disgusting. And it’s true. There is little place to go for a diehard pacifist. Maybe I’m too much of a diehard. I do tend to cling to assertions beyond the of point of reason, but that’s more pathological than ideological. Perhaps this is why I find myself listening to podcast like TA, where current events, if covered at all, take a different angle rather than simply a take. One of the reasons I can’t suffer through opinion pieces, blogs, etc - even those I particularly like - is b/c I’m by nature a take-haver and the urge to contribute is too strong, lol.

Jessica S

I’ll have to read up on this. I love music theory and the history of music in general. Which is funny because I was - purportedly - a terrible piano student. I loved to play but would only read the notes enough to play by ear. Drove my teacher and by extension my parents insane. Looking back I wonder if it’s better to let a 7 year old fall in love with playing and leave the theory until my attention skills were refined. Similar to how spelling and grammar is not even emphasized until second grade, maybe third grade, so the experiential satisfaction of writing isn’t beaten out a kid early on.

Jessica S

Oh god. I can’t unhear it now.

Jessica S

And to the mention of ancient medicine, isn’t that more of a rebuke of the present rather than the harkening of a purer truth? I guess this is true of many topics. Can’t we analyze the flaws in current thinking by coming up with something new? The past may inform the present but so many people think it should mirror it.

Jessica S

I’ll take it. At 45 that means I’m still coming up in middle age. A girl can pretend…

Jessica S

Right? I mean, I didn’t do heroin but wtf, I was an empty-headed hell raiser at that age. Go live your life, you can try to fix the world later on. (And hopefully become disillusioned enough to enjoy that next phase in life rather than actually thinking current systems can effect any meaningful change. Lol)

Jessica S

Good lord, I’m so glad my kids don’t watch shit like that. I’ve never even had to suffer through Frozen and I want to hug my 8 year old every for never embracing that pablum like all her other classmates, lol.

Randy Hendrickson

Thank GOD we are back to our regular programing.

Jessica S

Re: Iraq War 2 - the portion of the resistance that made it massive, speaking mostly of the US, was anti-Bush. NEVER did Obama see such opposition, quite the contrary those same “anti-war” people against the Iraq war fell over themselves to defend Obama’s war. And in that a new consensus was formed: whatever Obama did was the acceptable threshold for the left, because they are pussies that can’t fathom being called hypocrites by the right. Never mind that the right will call them names regardless! Digression aside, true anti-war sentiment - that which assumes peace and diplomacy as the starting point of any confrontation and cedes no exceptions - is scant in this country. People don’t witness the reality of war, thank god, and are more likely persuaded by economic impacts or drafts. I’m not knocking that. I think there would be stronger sentiment against war if our geographic luck didn’t remove us from the pressure other countries feel. Btw - drafts are unconscionable regardless. I’m skeptical that public opposition to the Vietnam War had as much impact on its demise as is popularly believed. I’d have to do a lot more reading in order to say that with confidence tho.

Smallbusinessman

Good post and even further USA liberals didn't really have a problem with that War from the start. Remember John Kerry ran on "reporting for duty" so he could do the war better.

NotMyREALname

If you are indeed in a new studio - the audio quality is really better. Your vocals are clearer and more separated and drier and sound pretty ok, good job.

Seth Aronovich

Mr. Ettinger sure seems real butthurt about AOC being called out for being a disgusting Ammurican warmonger.

Seth Aronovich

@Demented Avenger Grayzone did publish that article where they suggested Urban Moving Systems were a legitimate moving company lol lmao. But yes apart from that they are never wrong

Seth Aronovich

Noone should be 'anti-war' as such. People should, however, be 'anti bad-war', or 'anti any war that Ammurrica has ever engaged in', which is the same thing.

Seth Aronovich

@Dylan Jimmy Dore is having guys like Matthew Hoh on to support third party efforts to attack the Ammurrican system. I guess that's 'supporting Republicans' if you're Hillary Clinton. Are you?

Constrictor

As a person who consumes leftist streaming, essayists, and podcasts, I'd appreciate it if you didn't spend 30 minutes ranting about 'debate bros' for no apparent reason. Streamers debate content is maybe 5-10% of what they do and I find it laughable that you think they're blowhards who are wrong about everything when they align with you politically on almost everything. Take the sneering to your therapists. We get it.

Constrictor

At least you found a way to feel superior to both of them. Bravo.

Vincent

Nah, I 100% do not value my time or myself. Debate me bro

Chris Ryan

Of all the things to get mad about… but in all seriousness what good are famous “leftists” who are reliably going to vote for the blue people every time? Those people are all counter-revolutionary when it comes down to it.

Dear Death

Many of the remarks on this episode resonated with me, as have the LaRouche series in general, particularly the remarks about people just being lost after 2020. You might've supported Sanders, or you might've fantasized that Trump was actually going to "drain the swamp"—you were disappointed, in any case. And the anxiety about there being any lack of alternatives which Liz mentioned... well, that pretty much sums it up. It seems like there are no political solutions to what ails us apart from some messianic event. Don't we all seem to be waiting for that? Wasn't that Sanders, for a lot of people? Wasn't that Trump? Isn't this the "promise" of MAGA Communism? It's starting to feel like bad reruns. (To be clear, I'm not talking about local politics, which I find actually matters...) I used to bristle when people said they needed to change themselves before they changed the world. I used to feel that when people said "the personal is political," they were finding excuses for not doing anything about the mess we're in. But as I get older, I've found value in personal transformation. It doesn't matter what "-ist" you are—are you striving to be a more loving person? That's the only question which seems to matter to me. Maybe I've just become "old" and less "idealistic" or more "settled down," but here I am, for better or worse. Funnily enough, I found an expression of this feeling from a person who I know I'll find no friends on here for quoting... particularly since he's tied to the MAGA Communism(!) thing, but @logo_daedalus recently described TrueAnon's (and, I'm sure, tacitly by extension, his ol' pal Kantbot's "Pseudodoxology") approach as part of the "Doom Porn" machine. He said— "Read the Bible. Write Poetry. 'Studying parapolitics' feeds the DoomPorn Machine. Defeat the CIA by stepping over them into Paradise. Leave the Hell of endlessly analyzing evil. Seize the Good." I love TrueAnon, always have, make no mistake. And yes, it's important to know about the evil of this world—that's not what I'm saying. Just thinking out loud. Yeah, I know. It sounds corny. But I believe in Love and seizing the Good, wherever we may find it. God bless you all!

Rahel Hunter

Can't seem to find a way to DM on patreon but my friend and I are interested - still available? my twitter handle is @fish__sandwich if you want to DM there

theSmokingGun

I tend to think the information trueanon covers is inherently radicalizing. And they give us a grammar for talking about it and understanding it that I think makes it easier to translate into a vernacular for normies. I guess only kinda adjacent to what you're saying. I just think understanding the evil is important.

sgl

“If I see a woman wearing Margiela Tabis, I’m pouring Mountain Dew on them” I let out a very loud and inhuman “NO!” at that comment

Logan

Lots of angry teenagers in the comments. I'm not trying to sound critical. Trust me, I experienced what you are going through. Before my balls dropped, I also dabbled in Thotskyism. But after I turned 14, I realized it was actually called Trotskyism (not Thotskyism), that it was dumb as fuck, and that everyone in the US who was associated with it for more than a few years "became" some flavor of neocon. I guess what I'm saying is just try to have fun being lil trots. You don't have to worry too much if you don't quite understand some of what the adults are talking about. That's normal. One day you'll look back with great nostalgia about your time being unburdened by reality.

Logan

Great job everyone. I think we've earned a week off

Miss Lourdes

When brace said dog fuckers I felt like Lisa Simpson looking at Marge in front of the computer

stinkface

The fact that I even know who Haz and Hinkle are make me question some things about my life

Kompromatic

“As a person who consumes…” let me stop you right there friend

Evan Scott

i guess checking out and reading the bible is how you get to inane takes about service workers being non-proletarian

Evan Scott

best way to get to absolutely dogshit politics is to base your entire ideology around being contrarian

Munir hakim

Is brace really a vaush fan lol

Chris Ryan

The actual hosts of the show are constantly making fun of Trots, nice hasbara though

surrander 2000

What was the not-regular programming? I didn't notice. aw

Marina

I like this comment. Thoughtfully articulated with a point to chew on after finishing the episode. Thanks for sharing. 🤗

Marina

Same.

Logan

Learned a new word. It's a good one.

pzd

highly doubt it, he implied v**sh is a neolib and they shat on the whole debate streamer format explicitly, which i also agree with. its one thing to take normie callers like sam seder and another to have 4 hour pedantic debates with nazis who are clearly wrong lol

kenton

new lead: Robert Maxwell and Mother Theresa

Mitch

Great track "hymal" on Cloakrooms Time Well that captures the "were you there when they crucified the lord" energy. Give it a listen, see what you think.

Eggie

Matlock is essential viewing because it's an insight into the personal mythos of world leaders over 60.

Emma

I love Liz because she brings up shit like Tavi...what a time

Evan Scott

these people are having a meltdown over Lula winning now lol

Jack Lundquist

Brace is totally correct about the need for a political program (preferably of the min-max form) on the socialist left. Without that guiding set of demands and story to tell about socialist transformation, our strategy is totally unmoored and confused

DH

No