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Episode 309: I Need Speed and Weed (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-03 13:31:04
Edited:
2024-03-05 17:07:32
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Benjamin Fong joins us to talk about his new book Quick Fixes: Drugs in America from Prohibition to the 21st century Binge. We chat about the uniquely American obsession with drugs, the war machine’s love affair with meth, the burgeoning psychedelic movement, and why everyone is so desperate to get high. 

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Comments

dominic

Oh yeah well I need Earth and crack speak 4urself

Go'Thrak

Tremendous pic for the episode

NYCM&AHole

Blanking on it but I know I’ve seen it

Svid

You guys chill? Or nah?

Aage Grenchik

Maybe this episode will help me off adderall

NYCM&AHole

I’ll take whatever you still have

drewb

hearing White Winter Hymnal opened a time tunnel in my mind back to being a melancholy cigarette-smoking teenager walking thru my home town at night. thanks for the memories, YC

Yairo Martis

A first Brace, then a brace of Braces, and finally trailed by the caboose of Belden.

Aaron R

I cannot hear this AC. I’m listening through a $600 pair of cans and still cannot detect a difference.

Axel H.

It’s an early 2010s meme image, “[10] Guy”.

NYCM&AHole

That’s expensive canned pasta sauce

Jeremy hatrington

When I was locked up, they would prescribe all the problem prisoners with huge doses of seraquel and trazadone and those dudes would be OUT for like 20 hours a day, some people would do their whole bid like that on purpose (sort of a low class version of Braces fave book of 2018 My Year Of Rest and Relaxation)

K H

No ghosts on the sun. Read that again.

Natalie

there's a few people from rupaul's drag race in throuples. bob the drag queen has two boyfriends but the boyfriends only date bob and not each other. i always thought that was interesting

will michel

i am the last sober person left in america. i only have a toke and drink a couple beers a night

K H

I have a polycule in crisis because we are all adult baby diaper lovers but none of us can agree on who is baby!

NYCM&AHole

Jerry Nadler loves his adult diapers

demisays

ssri discussion reminded me to take my lexapro, thanks guys. looking forward to my psychiatrist prescribed psyloscibin microdose in 5 years

Willm

Wait did Benjamin say that you can run as many trials as you want and if two are successful the drug can be declared effective?

Mark Owen

The story of "brainwashing" being invented as a cover up for US pilots admitting US germ warfare is the gift that keeps on giving.

K H

All good man

K H

All good man. Just get in the cell.

Bessie

I’m worried about listening to this episode because my SSRI is at a low dose and helps me be so much less anxious 🥺

Demented Avenger

What will the drug craze be after psychedelics? Because it will end and in 20 years we'll be looking for a different fix.

Chris

"I am speed" lightning McQueen

Swimaroo

America is the podunk town of the world.... The bowling alley and pool are closed and you've been banned from Playing Horse at the Community center after you suplexed your cousin on the court

Blank

Brace just go on Feeld and you’ll find nothing but nyc polycules in crisis

Jess

I used to work with a lot of vets and they were coming into WORK on at least one antidepressant plus Seroquel, the problem was they thought it was medication like antibiotics or Tylenol so they were like "why am I still depressed? why am I sleepy?" and they'd go back to get another one. I think the trend changed to Adderall at some point for obvious reasons...

Oliver Crane

You will eat the drugs, you will get in the Uber.

Zach

SFPL has this book

C. J

Ben has the EXACT same voice as Nic Pizzolatto. It’s bizarre.

Graham Hoese

Sooooo if my funky Irish doctor who went to med school in Grenada prescribes me synthetic psilocybin for my unmanaged mood disorders, do I take it orrrr where did we land on that?

TrueAnonPod

great library. read the novel "Cruising" made later into a major motion picture at the library in one day while I was waiting for my dad to get out of work

The oldest baby

Mike, Thanks to you I found Gold & Youth! Their song 90s Night has some of the most prescient (and hilarious) lyrics, including the gem “Before we gave in and gave way to the milquetoast surrender and to the psychedelics that were just there to help you optimize…. before they put us out to pasture on some woo woo psycho factory retirement farm, Placated by the soothing tones of some future chillwave renaissance”. Thought it was particularly on the nose for this episode.

Kryn Benski

Hard to find the line between seeming corny and sarcastic here, but you’ll be fine. They aren’t critical of you experiencing desirable effects from an SSRI

archipelago_go

And the town Walmart is the only one in the world that isn’t 24 hours

Bessie

Hey thank you. I appreciate it!

Tvvvv

They used ketamine at my work for antipsychotic episodes until a woman pulled her eyes out of her head.

Arid

Very cool conversation, especially about new drugs coming along. I can definitely look forward to psyliciben being legal. The couple times I tried shrooms it had a pretty substantial anti-depressant effect for the next 3-4 weeks after the trip. But the nausea was super unpleasant!! I am on an ssri for depression as of like 2 months ago and it's worked super well for me tbh. Certainly want to off myself less. I don't super know how they work too much either but just less miserable every day. I'll take it!

pulled a muscle yearning

NO ONE CAN HEAR THE AC! Just turn on the damn AC! Young Chomsky, high pass filter that shit

Connor

Possibly best outro ever

QUARANTINE DREAM

Yeah to join w/Levi here - maybe give a shot to iZotope RX because it actually can handle that stuff better than anything else. Or seriously just buy a bag of ice and a strong quiet fan, throw that sucker in an open ice chest, bam.

getwell

get in the uber with me man

QUARANTINE DREAM

Also, really good episode so far, as always.

Heffe

Seconded

pulled a muscle yearning

I don't think you even need that. Most people aren't listening to podcasts in isolation where they can hear small noises like ac rumble. Well, sometimes a car can have a sub or something that amplifies rumble (some podcasts need to chill on the low end anyway). But point is, it's a podcast, this shit ain't the latest steely dan record.

Nick

This was really great

Peanut Horse

Started taking SSRIs and it made me feel a lot less dreadful and anxious. No idea if it’s a placebo or not but i remember feeling a little different when I started taking it consistently, so I guess I’ll keep taking them.

Sarah Jay

Bibendum is the name of the Michelin Tire Man

Stop the Spread

Sheesh… I’ve been prescribed modafinil for YEARS. Simply because I didn’t want an amphetamine. Not now nor ever in the military. Debilitating ADHD…

Johan Stefonski

Okay but... SSRIs have helped me pull out of some tremendously steep nose dives.

Monica

Love that me and Brace have been seroquel sisters 👯‍♀️ That and hearing Fleet Foxes teleported me to times gone by

Monica

Also, I guess in the US, ketamine is used no where near as recreationally as it is here in the U.K.?

aficionado

it’s a really interesting and hard to discuss topic. i def think that dexamphetamine and methylphenidate has been way way way over prescribed, yet again, adderall has completely overhauled my life for the better. It had a euphoric feeling for the first week or two, but going on a year now, it’s a very subconscious change. I can certainly tell when I don’t take it, but it’s a very subtle dread-like feeling. Like that ‘pit in the stomach’ that brace has described a few times before that his drug use alleviated. WEIRD STUFF PEOPLE!

aficionado

anyways great episode!!

Ry Guy

Feel like this episode could have been a lot longer or 2 parter. super interesting. I appreciate that despite Brace's past he doesnt push sobriety and is very matter-of-fact about his own experience and doesnt try to impose his perspective on the audience.

TrueAnonPod

no it's big now as of the past few years

kctoo

The "Adderall is basically meth" take has always felt weird to me. I was on various SSRIs for ~8 years and they were a net negative. Finally a psychiatrist decided to try out Adderall and now after 2 years, it has essentially saved my life. Not because I'm better at my job (I'm not) or more productive, but because it helps me regulate my emotions so much better and has "fixed" my chronic avoidance of difficult memories. It helps me sit with myself, be calm, and reflect without wanting to immediately distract myself from my thoughts and emotions. I know it's over prescribed and makes people tweak and shit and maybe I could have achieved the same result with consistent therapy but it essentially gave me a push and helps me sustain my momentum towards feeling okay!

XXXXXXXL FAILSON

The "adderall is basically meth" take should make you feel weird. It is a reflection of the stigma that stimulant medications carry. The three avenues of use between which the lines can blur. You can use it as directed, "abuse" it as directed (ie taking it to cram for tests, drive 900 miles without sleeping to maximize your vacation, etc"), or abuse it like a tweaker under a bridge (snort and shoot). It often seems that the experience is summed up by people as "everyone's tweaked out and sped up" (true anon is guilty). But similar to your experience, I can say that when I take my prescribed dosage as directed, at the same time every day, and get enough sleep, and drink water, eat healthy and often enough, i am able not only to establish a routine, but keep it and thrive in it. It allows me to stay organized and maintain executive function. I can keep appointments, I don't act impulsively, and I can "self-care" in all the ways that have kept me at a baseline of healthy emotional regulation for a few years.

TrueAnonPod

Without getting too in the weeds I don't think we were saying adderall is basically meth; adderall is an amphetamine (as is meth) that is therapeutic for some people and can be destructive for some others, and Americans in particular consume huge amounts of the drug.

NYCM&AHole

The funniest shit was my grandfather once told me about how he used to get dexadrine over the counter back in the day.

Brian Long

How psychotic is the beginning of this episode.

Brian Long

Polycule episode when ????

AKorgar

God Luck and Good Speed

Victor MIII

Sorry but if I don't take my daily dose of Meth, I'll forget what I'm doing with my life and neglect tasks that're essential for surviving capitalism. It really better for everyone.

Arden Igleheart

I just went off my SSRI because I thought it wasn’t doing anything and boy was I wrong. It saves me from constantly wanting to kill myself lol

Sean Curtis

Gotta vouch for my boy, the SSRI. I take it for PE, and without it, I nut like a ninja.

Em Carrot

I’d be interested to hear how the recent popularisation of trauma as a way for understanding emotional distress is shifting / contributing to prescription trends in the US. I’ve personally had a bipolar II diagnosis since I was 13, but I’ve noticed a big shift in the last few years of therapists encouraging me to see my depression and anxiety as PTSD treatable through CPT instead. A few of my friends have had similar experiences recently, so it makes me curious. I’ve had a brutal time being prescribed and discontinued psychiatric drugs (w/o tapering 🤢) - thanks for this episode, guys!

Stop the Spread

No, it’s not nearly as big as it is in the UK. Not even close. It’s getting big, no doubt, but they’re right.

BIG VIBES

racial jake is back at the last minute

sarah

This is gonna be more defensive than I mean it to sound but I am genuinely seeking an answer: It’s actively fucked up that I have to take an SSRI and adderall to survive in this hellscape but what choice do I have? I mean what’s the alternative? I don’t want to be on these drugs but without them I literally cannot function in my world as it’s presently structured. What else can I do besides take my drugs? I do all the basic shit like exercise, no social media etc. and I have a big support network but those things aren’t enough anymore. What can I do? I’ll take the ketamine once my SSRIs stop working but I don’t fucking want to.

sarah

Like I have to go to fucking work and I literally can’t do that without my drugs

loafman

re: Americans being the best at (party) drugs.... have you ever been to Berlin, Amsterdam, London?

Angleton

Lenin was in throuple

james

honorable mention to all those classic drug capitals. but America is the leader in consumer culture. And consumer culture is what develops drug markets. That's why we have become the world leader in recreational drugs of all kinds.

TrueAnonPod

yeah you may take ecstacy at Bananerama in Amsterdam but we are smoking fentanyls Europeans could never even dream of...

Aaaaaaaaaaaron1

The MK Ultra stuff is so wild. I remember reading about a psychologist named Dr. Andre who would do experiments on a young girl with developmental disabilities. He and his colleagues would feed her LSD and then link arms in a circle around her and chant "nightmare, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare."

Matelda

Even if it was society that broke your leg, you still need a cast. Do not feel bad about taking your meds, it's not inconsistent with recognition of the whole picture.

Matelda

I thought I didn't "have depression" because i went through five prescriptions that did nothing or made me worse before a nurse practitioner finally gave me prozac. I really think Americans are a uniquely maimed population, not that we have the worst lives of course but we are made to be disabled in our own special way. It's scary that this is getting worse, not better, but I hope no one feels too bad about using a treatment if they have one that works to somewhat get their life back.

Sneakaboard

Yeah, its literally a harrison bergeron situation except they are doing it to everyone and everyone was already kind of a dud to start.

Sneakaboard

I was on various paychiatric medicines off and on for like 6 month to 1 year periods from 16 to 32 before a psych finally gave me a mild sleep aid, trazadone, and a mild blood pressure medicine that helps with anxiety, clonidine, two very safe non habit forming medicines that have been around for fucking ever and my quality of life dramatically improved for the first time ever with any psyciatric intervention. I always thought all the anti psych people were cranks and crooks to be honest but, in hindsight I was 100% being prescribed zeitgeist medications new on the market and thus heavily over prescribed due to the marketing/journal push, or pet meds from true freaks and psychos functionally doing nonconsenual experiments on their patients. My current guy was the first one to treat me like a motorcycle and just check my battery and replace my spark plugs instead of deciding he needed to completely dissasemble the engine and replace the pistons, the preponderance of highly educated doctors are basically idiots in a very real way.

devils cherry

I felt this way too about the episode. It seems like the language they use around it “everyone’s getting high” and saying that we are medicating due to our society (definitely true in many cases) doesn’t fully encompass the issue of having ADHD. Having ADHD means I can’t do things as simple as brush my teeth or make food without extreme difficulty if I don’t take my medication. I’m not high when I do, I’m just at the functioning baseline that most humans without ADHD seem to already have. I obviously don’t know to what extent society has caused me to be this way. But medication really just means I’m actually able to live and not just survive hanging on by a thread. Like, taking high blood pressure medicine to survive doesn’t equal getting high. My brain does not store dopamine in the same way as most people. Obviously people also abuse it but I think the overprescribed narrative is only furthering stigmatization for people who actually need it.

devils cherry

In addition to this my psych just mentioned to me today, colleagues ask if people often come to her just looking for the drug (she specializes in ADHD treatment). She said she’s able to tell & when they do it’s extremely rare. Most all actually have significant ADHD symptoms and struggles. Of course things like social media’s effect on the dopamine in our brain could be influencing this too, but just saying this in relation to the whole overprescribed thing. Women particularly struggle with getting any treatment for ADHD in general rather than just being given benzos and SSRIs.

Matelda

It's easy to have valid critiques without valid solutions. That's what I think is going on with a lot of anti-psych people. You can't just replace all of psychiatry with veganism and Dr. Bonner soap, but they're still right about a lot of psychiatry being terrible.

SoldierBlue

Didn’t notice the AC at all

Sam Ray

Liz was right. Oppenheimer was bad.

Natalie

crazy how the US justifies doing both MKUltra experiments AND the atomic bomb by saying Well.....the other guys are doing it! and they were wrong both times

Dr. Cornwater

One of the real issues with antidepressants and similar meds is that we prescribe them, but don't pair it with talk therapy or anything that can help build better methods of dealing with this fucked up world. They aren't a quick fix. They're a railing for you to gain stability with to do the work right. There's no thought of the real issues that's going on with the human prescribed. And it's evident that there's no thought from either Brace nor Liz of those humans either. It's the same rhetoric that kept me scared of seeking help: these drugs don't work and in fact make you worse in most cases. The world is fucked up in general just deal with it so what if you're fucked up. I really don't appreciate the cynical view of mental health medication whenever you guys talk about it. Being on a mood stabilizer alone made it so I could feel true emotions and help me identify them for the first time in 25 years. The goal is to get off of your meds at some point and there's absolutely a problem with how we market and use them. But viewing amphetamines as just a drug to get high on instead of the incredibly helpful medicine it is to ADD or ADHD affected people isn't helpful. This guest and one of the previous ones who've come on to talk about these issues have been ignorant as fuck quite frankly. They advertise the side effects of meds and they have to! Every doctor or psychiatrist I've ever been to has warned me of side effects and urged me to look them up before taking a new med. Literally every medication has potential side effects. Is an antihistamine not worth taking bc you can get sleepy? Is my mood stabilizer or antidepressant bad bc they make my tummy hurt a lil? I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but you can also ask your doctor to switch your meds if you don't like how you feel on them. You're not trapped into taking something you don't like. It feels like shit to have a whole hour of a podcast dedicated to how people who take mental health medication are getting duped when my meds have saved my fucking life and many others that I know. It's fucking dangerous. I hope no one hears this and stops taking their meds as that can hurt people even more than any side effects of taking it.

Dr. Cornwater

Like man I don't even want to be a patron anymore after 2 different eps with 2 anti medicine fucks who tell your audience their mental health meds don't work. Fuck you guys.

Major bit me

Professors are usually annoying as hell and pretend they are experts on a wider array of topics than they are in reality. Same with that dumbass media guy they had on awhile back, remember just cause he has a degree doesn’t stop Benjamin from writing idiotic socdem articles on Jacobin

Chris

My brain doesn't make enough dopamine, I will have an incongruous ability to act without my medication. Rationalizing trauma and working through it does not fix receptors in my brain. Your brain chemistry can absolutely be altered by trauma or abuse as a kid, and no amount of diary, self reflection or talk is going to physically repair your brain. These drugs are real, nobody should ever put them down because a lot of vulnerable people need them to have healthy lives.

Chris

We always need to be evil because there's a foreigner out there making us this way, our national vision of geopolitics is a catch 22

Chris

For me it wouldn't matter how healthy our society is, my brain chemistry was simply altered by trauma and that can't be rationalized away. Push ups aren't going to do shit when you make so little dopamine that you can barely understand what other people are saying. Doesn't have shit to do with capitalism. Capitalism does make it worse though.

Chris

Berlin and London? What are we? 4th graders? We play in the national leagues, not that pee wee shit.

Chris

Your prescribed amphetamine meds can and will get you blitzed as fuck if you take the correct amount to produce a high. Speed is speed, if you use it as designed it will destroy you, it helping with ADD at lower doses is just a weird coincidence.

Dr. Cornwater

Could not agree more. You don't "fix" a mental health disorder, you maintain it. A good doctor or psychiatrist knows to switch meds after prolonged use or to check to make sure they're working. It's just like any other medications you might take for physical long term illnesses or injury. The long-term effects of taking SSRIs are worth it over dying before 30 by my own hand, personally.

Natalie

what does it mean to nut like a ninja (googling this phrase in quotes leads to a funny reddit post)

Jaime Christley

I dunno guys, finding out that I could get like adderall and whatnot via basically the same process as getting Blue Chews, that was a great tip.

kctoo

That's like saying nutmeg making food flavorful is a weird coincidence because taking a fuck ton of it makes you high. There's no "essential" purpose for any chemical. "as designed" has no bearing on utility. Viagra was "designed" as a heart medication but it's not used as one. Who cares if amphs were designed to get you blitzed if I can use them and get a whole different outcome? Intended outcome and real outcome are two different things.

Couch

cry more

Natalie

i've been relistening to some old episodes and in the early ghislane series they talked about uber and lyft and then brace talks in a self-described "goblin" voice so something about ride sharing apps just brings this out of him

Jaime Christley

This isn’t Cumtown, asshole, have a little self respect

Sean Curtis

I just googled it myself lol. Didn't know it had a prescribed meaning already. Bro I just nut quick. SSRIs can be used to treat premature ejaculation and erectile dysfunction, as both can sometimes occur as a result of the para-sympathetic nervous system. Never took them for depression or anxiety, but I feel for anyone that did. The first two weeks, I was so sick, despite only having like a 10mg/d dose. Agree fully that there isn't a real good reason to arbitrarily draw a distinction between SSRIs and other drugs.

surrander 2000

A. W. - It can be truly fascinating to read the commentary before hearing the ep. { :~) > • • •

surrander 2000

Xcept, Jerry Nadler does not love. There, truly, is (1) possibly justifiable candidate for MDMA therapy...... aw

Jaime Christley

yeah I was just doing a dumb little Evangelion joke

Null_null

I take Zoloft for panic and OCD. The OCD actually went away permanently, which is wild. I tapered and was off it for 2 months (after like 5 years on). I did everything right. Then three trips to the ER later for what I was sure were heart attacks, I’m back baby!

MLVF

Surprisingly laughably bad IMO

K H

Yo what's up with these clown ass Walmarts? More like walmrat

orc

The Love Doctor, Brace Belden

Axel H.

If I may ask: why? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm thinking of seeing it. Would like to know whether it's worth it.

Sam Ray

Well, my screening was 70mm film but the screen was cropped and the image was out of focus, and it was not bright enough. So I was not able to turn my brain off and enjoy it on a purely technical level. My issue w it is the script. Nolan's politics have always been awful and this film really has little to say but look how conflicted Opp was. The film is barely about the bomb. It is more an uncritical depiction of McCartyism. It basically throws anyone w communist sympathies, interest in unionizing, under a bus. The script is where this is articulated. I'd put 10 bucks that "known communist" was uttered more times than "atomic". I found it exhausting. Obv good acting. I expected this from Nolan but still, very tedious, for me. Armond White didn't care for it and I actually agreed with his points. See it digital or at home, it's not at all necessary to see in imax. I'm sorry it's just not. Let me how you like it, if you see it!

wolfgang

of course a dissociative(special k)has become a popular therapeutic - perfect for the internet age.

lock

I got the Belden Virus, lab leak

sammi sweetheart

Am I hallucinating that they already did this?

sammi sweetheart

I relate to this. I feel almost abused by the pharma/insurance industry and am working toward living my life med-free because I hate feeling like a hostage to these drugs. Have been gradually tapering Adderall for a year. Off Wellbutrin, doing Somatic Experiencing and EMDR and just suffering to work through it all, trusting that it will get easier (because to a great degree, it already has and I’m genuinely hopeful). All this to say, I am curious about the relationship between PTSD/CPTSD diagnosis and different treatment recommendations. In my experience, doctors don’t care about the context and treat the symptom by writing a prescription regardless.

Matelda

This is not about mental health patients being duped. I'm reading the book and it does not suggest that ending all drug use could be a solution. That would contradict the actual premise that Americans are genuinely made sick by the conditions of our lives, and the drug economy tracks (not causes) the wider material phenomenon.

Matelda

If you aren't sure how to reconcile the theory of capitalism as causal with your lived experience of biological psychiatry, the answer is environmental impact on gene expression. I can understand why a social scientist doesn't get into it, but this shit is not actually inconsistent with scientific medical orthodoxy.

Axel H.

I just listened to this episode and I did not at all hear anyone telling listeners not to treat mental illness with medication or that mental health patients are being duped. I think a discussion about the efficacy of SSRIs and the progression from anti-depressant to anti-psychotic was misinterpreted as a wholesale rejection of psychoactive medicine and vilification of those who take it. I'm not surprised--when I read a comment that interpreted this episode in the worst possible light, I didn't actually think that Brace and Liz (and Fong) were telling people "your problems aren't real, your drugs aren't doing anything" (but I was thinking of avoiding this episode if that was true). This interpretation seems to arise any time there is any discussion of pharmacology and the treatment of mental illness. I'm not saying Fong is right about everything (I haven't read the book so I couldn't say that anyway), but I don't think he's a blowhard who knows nothing and thinks psychoactive medicine is fake just because he's questioning the volume of drugs Americans are taking and why that is so. I also don't think we can talk about mental health without addressing "societal conditions" but that is, as Matelda pointed out, in line with the premise of societal conditions and trauma affecting brain chemistry.

Axel H.

This was a good discussion and it does not at all tell people that psychoactive medicine is ineffective and shouldn't be used, in case anyone has been reading the comments and is thinking of skipping (as I was).

Dr. Cornwater

I think a lot of this interview reminds me of the "just asking questions" kind of guy that pops up in the most annoying places on the internet. "I'm not saying these drugs don't work but look at this evidence! I'm just asking questions!" I'm sorry if I'm taking this in bad faith, but there's already been a previous guest who was peddling this anti medicine hogwash. Get a doctor on next time instead of some dork who writes articles all day. Saying that there's side effects we aren't told about when we all joke about the long ass list of them at the end of the commercials is fucking dumb as fuck like what the fuck man lmao

Sneakaboard

Personally, when my psych prescribes me something I do not go and look for commercials and watch them at half speed so I can learn about the side-effects, I expect my psych to be aware of them and relay them to me. Which is something that has, in my personal psychiatric journey, not happened repeatedly leading to all kinds of problems for me. The problem with 'getting a doctor on', and this is kind of the point of a lot of the episode, is that a significant amount of these doctors don't have any idea what they are doing and don't really care. The issue isn't that 'psych meds don't work', the issue is that you basically just have to play roulette until you get a psych who is going to meaningfully help you identify a successful intervention OR suggest that maybe you don't have mechanical brain problems that rise to the level of needing mechanical intervention and that your issues may be situational and thereby require other methods to address (e.g. talk therapy, lifestyle change, substance use cessation etc.). My brain is all fucked up, through a combination of trauma and epigenetics, mechanically it has problems. The meds I am on now make those problems significantly easier to manage, and like someone else said above once I got put on Lamotrigine I was able to feel feelings like normal people do for the first time since I was a kid basically. These psychiatric interventions have been a massive improvement in my quality of life and that of my loved ones. However, it took SEVENTEEN YEARS for me to find a psychiatrist who actually paid enough attention to figure out what was going on and who actually listened to me when I said I'd been put on pretty much every anti-depressant I was willing to try with no or only ill effect. And, while it is totally true that talk therapy and learning grounding exercises and visualizations can not prevent me from having a hypomanic episode or 'fix' my brain, they have been massively helpful to me in identifying when I am having a trauma response or an episode and navigating those situations in a healthier and more productive way. If I was only doing one or the other I'd have made almost no progress, meds that are actually helping me in combination with the therapy are basically the reason I am still alive.

Sneakaboard

I really wish people had a better understanding of epigenetic expression and its implications, and how trauma and other environmental factors can cause what would otherwise have been latent possible issues to become actual manifest issues.

Sneakaboard

I was gonna see it because why not until my buddies explained that the framing device is the hero Oppenheimer proving he isn't a communist lmao

Sam Ray

The wildest moment for me was when the future wife explains that her first husband and herself were communists. Her husband was so dedicated to the cause that he went to Spain to fight Franco. He dies in battle & her take away is that communism is silly and abandons the ideology. Ahhhh, that's some ass Nolan writing right there

Dr. Cornwater

Your experience is very close to my own and I absolutely agree it's a frustrating system meant to not help you, especially if you're part of a marginalized group. Hospitalized 3 times in my life, once while homeless. Misdiagnosed, ignored, jerked around by insurance, meds that didn't work for me. It's awful. I was actually the person who said taking a mood stabilizer changed my life and it happens to also be Lamotrigine. I'm glad it worked for you as well. It gave me an entirely new lease on life and I consider myself incredibly lucky to have made it. I think the intention of examining this from the outside is worthwhile. But the fact that the guest was equating these medicines that have helped people like us as drugs the same as mind altering substances feels wrong to me is all I'm saying. The fact that I've felt this way twice doesn't rub me the right way. The comments here have a couple people who echo my sentiment so I'm not the only person who walked away with the same impression I did.

Sneakaboard

One thing that sucks, as a psych patient, is that my experience has been that the more knowledgeable about meds and my own brain chemistry and needs, the less doctors are willing to allow me to participate in shaping my own treatment plan. For example, I have been medicated with stimulants off and on since I was a teen. I'm somewhat ambivalent about this, but the reality is that many times in my life without them I would simply not be functional in the way that society requires me to be (this isn't fair or right, but it is true). Because of this experience, I know that 5mg immediate release dexedrine tabs are the best thing for me and have had the most positive impact precisely because I can use them in a very targeted way. When I requested that, my psych said it was drug seeking behavior and now they couldn't give that to me in order to shield themselves from liability and they pre-scribed me time release Vyvanse which is way speedier for me and also means that I am on speed for twelve hours at a stretch instead of being able to use it for a four to five hour focus period. Its significantly worse as a treatment for me, and its what I am stuck with specifically because I requested what I know works. Psych meds help, if you are on the right ones, and so do other forms of therapeutic intervention. That doesn't change the fact that our current systems for delivering those medicines and interventions are completely fucked up and driven by the market and liability at least as much as they are science or patient needs, that over-prescription of psych meds for people that do not need them or are not helped by them is a very real problem, and that the psych meds are often used to address the symptoms of what are ultimately societal issues and not a problem with the individual as such. Like every time something is being criticized, if your personal situation is that you have good medical care providers and effective treatment regime that is great! The episode isn't about you, it isn't an attack on your experience, and in general no one should really take psychiatric advice from a podcast let alone one about the pedophilic deep state.

Jason

I feel like you guys are (understandably) taking this episode very personally. I didn't get the sense that they were anti-medication at all. I'm curious where you heard that. And not to be annoying, but lamotrigine is quite literally a mind-altering substance -- I've been prescribed it, too. I think the question was more about why these medications are necessary in the first place. And also, if one doesn't have access to psychiatric prescriptions, what drugs (or "medicines") one turns to instead. And then what the line is between the two. It doesn't seem very clear-cut to me; you might have a stronger opinion. I forget if it was mentioned in the ep, but I know ketamine therapy is being explored as a potential treatment for depression. Does that mean ketamine would transition from "mind-altering substance" to "helpful medicine"? Again, I'm not discounting your experience/viewpoint. I've also been in the "psychiatric system" or whatever you call it. I just think reasonable people can have very different philosophies when it comes to psychiatric medications, drugs, or really anything involving the mind and self-concept.

David Constine

When will you have your friend Hamilton Morris on talk similar topics?

ch

this is my dream episode

ch

heroinnnn be the death of me

David Constine

I know, I’ve thought abt this for years

David Constine

Please more Brace leprechaun. Thanks.

David Constine

Man this three minutes of impressions and funny voices at the end is really killing me.

Jake Torrey

I had a friend in a throuple in the pacific northwest area. Blew up in the end, predictably.

Gavin Schriver

I think one thing that could have been interesting to explore more here is the lack of warning about how hard it is to get off of certain SSRIs/SNRIs. like we're all warned of the possible side effects but i was NOT made aware of how awful trying to taper off of cymbalta until i tried... lord willin Benjamin's predictions about the efficacy of psychedelic medicines comes to pass

gardenwallflower

Great episode! but drug neuroscience expertise sorely lacking

hannah mihulka

Great episode. As someone who hates the medical model, but needs my meds in order to stay functional in society and keep a job...it's a tough one. I do believe I need to take them in order to stay sober, make good decisions, and all that, but that being said I would like to know what it's like without them. Unfortunately, I'm not God not a Evil Doctor nor balanced enough to try it out -- short story, take ur meds, but they aren't the whole answer.

Burat

Need a pod with brace brace brace belden and boutros boutros boutros ghali

Connor Sick

Fantastic episode, extremely well articulated throughout. I’m a therapist who works with many people with chronic mental health conditions that may require treatment through therapy or medication at some point or throughout their lives, although most people do not. Many people are misdiagnosed with a chronic mental illness because the medical model of mental health care has necessitated a billable diagnosis for any form of ongoing treatment. I wish more therapists and prescribers in my profession shared these observations

Connor Sick

aside Stealing Fire is an interesting book which presciently lionized the psychopharmeceutical-psychedelics movement and greatly overindulges psychedelics in Silicon Valley, which I was assigned in grad school in training for my profession circa 2016. Edit: I’ve since started re-reading this book. It’s a transhumanist text. The authors talk a lot of transhumanism. Why was I assigned this in social work grad school

Isabella Dunne

Same. My brother and sister have cystic fibrosis and can't function without their meds. My dad had cancer and has to take hormone suppressants every day. I have to take vyvanse or I can't function. Obviously the system is fucked but needing meds to function is part of life for so many people, there's nothing wrong with needing antidepressants if you need them.

Loco Motive

I've had the exact same experiences as you. It'll drive you insane if you let it.

Lars

💀