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Deathbringer Skills! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-10 09:59:24
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Is Deathbringer an Ability-based system or a Skill-Based System? The definitive answer is--YES! 

Comments

MrGunn

PDM, DeathBringer new and improved, now with skills like: Punch Face Stabbing Juggling Mime

Jay

This sorta works for Deathbringer yet I don't see how some skills correlate with some abilities. For instance, ever meet someone with great intelligence (Psych) who had expert Academic Knowledge (skill) in chosen field such as law but lacked Charisma/Charm (skill), couldn't cook, and was terrible animals and had zero aptitude for Engineering (skill). I can site a few off the top of my head. So for me this is a no go but if it works for others great. Furthermore, I can't help but mention the issue I see with a d20 ability check. Simply put, the ratio of random element D20 to absolute competence being an ability modifier seems backwards to me. The ability combined with training (skill) should determine how competent someone is at accomplishing a task. Example +2 ability and d20 (random element) is 2 points competence to 20 points chaos factor. Each roll of the d20 isn't aggregated with any other dice rolls and is therefore independent and separate. Therefore even if the target number, DC or whatever you want to call it is an 8 you can still fail even if the task is considered easy. God forbid you do this twice in a row. Now your Steven Hawking level intelligence wizard is proven completely incompetent or at least it will feel that way. I've recently viewed an interview from a prominent game designer of board games and video games that some video games fudge the numbers behind the scenes. If you trooper in X-Com has a 90% likelihood of shooting the alien they fudge it behind the scenes because the players would become enraged if they missed even more so if it happened twice. The reason given was that human psychology doesn't view 90% likely to hit as a 10% shot at failure but an absolute that the hit will happen. So in this case it is more in how people feel about the results. For this reason I see "Lift Gates" more like if a combined strength of one or more players must meet this score to lift it waist high. For higher combined strength greater results. A guy at the gym can deadlift 300 lbs. Not because of a random element (dice roll). He does it every time. Just as encumbrance is a specific weight value in some games. Bulky items are a separate matter. So I hope this makes some kind of sense to anyone who has read this far.

Kevin Beck

Is this the result of hundreds of players asking why doesn't Deathbringer have skills? I sure don't need them. I like the idea of just assuming a fighter can fight and a rogue can steal and a priest knows about religion and gods and a wizard can find his or her way around a library. All of that stuff. :)

Masterhit
>>114916650

Agreed. Think of these as examples of skills you would/could associate with a stat. I mean you can see contortionist and escape artist together, but that certainly doesn't imply you are also a musician etc. Think of this as a list of ideas, not a game mechanic. You should (as a player) be able to organically build reasons for your character to have a skill and perhaps gain a bonus/advantage/ability to do something based upon that. The GM then arbitrates it with you. PDM: "And what’s the deal with “musicianship” and “performance.” Good question. We dunno. Ask the GM. It’s up to them."

Jay
>>114916650

Agree to disagree gents. I don't see dice rolls as something that is always necessary. However, when it is called for, I view randomness (dice) in ones ability should be a smaller factor than the characters level of competence (static modifier) and should be typically used when attempting to perform something above their competence. Then I do mostly play games other than D20 style systems. I know what works and makes sense for both myself and my group. So, no I'm not looking too deeply into this. I don't see everything in a TTRPG as a gamble mechanic requiring dice rolls based on the whims of a GM. Although, I have met players that feel they aren't attempting to do something if they haven't rolled any dice. For those people I would recommend seeing Dungeon Craft Video "Stop Rolling So Much". Rhetorically speaking, why roll for somethings and not others just based on whatever the GM want's to do that day or if they change their mind in a different session. In my opinion, characters should find the clue in the fireplace if they look there and it furthers the narrative. No dice roll necessary. If they are of great strength they should have no trouble (or dice roll) for lifting a 80lb object. Consistency is important to my players and both my rules and ideas work for them. Others may agree or may not. The point is you don't have to use the game rules or ideas I present if they don't work for you. Nor am I wrong or overthinking them when they are time tested and work for my players. Yes, I read the same thing you did so no need to quote PDM's text. Again, as I stated above, if the ideas and rules PDM or anyone else works for you I say great. The reason for making the post above is that I'm hoping someone has something helpful or useful to add to my ideas. Not to be corrected, told to conform to the rules presented, or have my thoughts brushed off by someone who believes they know better than I do. So if you have nothing helpful to add other than criticism feel free to ignore my statements and use whatever rules work for you and yours. To be clear, arguing who's ideas are better don't interest me. However, those who have new or innovative ideas to add to my own does interest me. So hope you find PDM's skill ideas work for you if that is what you enjoy and happy gaming.

Jay
>>114919186

Yep. Completely agree. That's how I played it for years and it worked great for those D20 systems. It required less paperwork and explanations. As someone who now plays a lot of non-d20 skill based games, I wouldn't likely use this list as I see too many complications in tracking skills for this type of game, the dice mechanics typically involved with the D20 skill checks, and potential to slow things down but to each their own.

MrGunn
>>114916650

@Jay You make a lot of good points. Personally my problem with skill based systems is they attempt to be simulationist, but it never really works. People always have more skills in real life. Have you tried HarnMaster, you might enjoy it.

Jay
>>114916650

@MrGunn good to hear from you. I trust all is going well. So yes. you are correct as far as some skill based game systems go. I believe it comes down to the type of game your looking at playing. In my opinion D20 systems don't really need long lists of skills and due to the D20 mechanics and keeping the game light. For other games like Savage Worlds, Leagues of Adventure, Traveler, Hollow Earth Expedition, and other skill based games many of the skills are somewhat generalized with a few specializations. These TTRPRGs aren't quite as simulationist as some other games I've read but I can see your point. It always comes down to preference and tweaking what works for you and your group. Everyone seems to play things a bit different even if they use the same game system. In a game such as Deathbringer or BX I would forgo the skills list attached to attributes and many of the dice rolls associated with them. Sure they can jot them down if they like but they wouldn't need any more accounting than that. At least that's what I think but everyone is different. My focus is mainly on simple mechanics that make sense and a flat d20 is far too big of a random element for someone who had studied probability and statistics and doesn't want every skill use to be a mostly a gamble. To me it has way too much latitude for failure by so called expert characters on easy to medium difficulty tasks. It would give the player the feeling their character is either incompetent or the game is broken if it happens more than once on a task they practice or study for daily if that makes any sense. For example, the ranger can ride a horse. The Wizard will have and be given info for some knowledge in the skill subject they are said to have rather than consult the random element of a die roll. Specific info might get less details than general but if they have the knowledge they should recall it or find it in their library or tome but it's just an opinion.

Chuck Thorin

Hmm. Why is hear noise under Dex? And am I proficient with a leg of mutton? :)

MrGunn
>>114943036

@Chuck Thorin. Your right to ‘shank’ someone with a leg of mutton is protected under the Creative Commons license 🐑😜🤣

MrGunn
>>114919186

@Kevin Beck One can spend a lifetime butting heads against other people's lack of imagination.