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WILL BALDUR'S GATE KILL THE VTT? (Extended) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-17 21:13:47
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

PDM gives the Cliff's Notes version of his recent appearance on Roll for Combat. Trouble viewing this content? Try a different OS or device.

Here's a link to Fire & Ice skirmish game. They sponsored this video. Check it out if you dig Fran Frazetta and minis as much as I do.

kickstarter.com/projects/dynamiteent/fire-and-ice-the-miniatures-board-game?ref=6ybhu0

Files

Previews only

Baldur's Gate

Comments

Bagel-Man

I’m currently playing through BG3 with a friend of mine and so far, the game is amazing. Both of us are having a blast playing it which is odd for me because I didn’t really care for the first two games all too much. Either way, the game is great and I see this being a success for WotC even though they didn’t make it.

Steven

BG3 is a lot of fun. It's not just the combat, it's that they provide many ways to accomplish a goal. Obviously not as many as a DM could, but way more than your average game.

Timothy S Wattigny

May your sawbones be more precise than Deathbringer's cleaving chop.

7DSystem

Two important components to a successful sale: know your product and understand your customer. WoTC executives don't know the product and don't understand the customer. While lots of money does breed new shiny things, in the long term customers go meh!

DireSquirrel

I got into BG3 in early access and it was great watching the streams from hell and the changes that went along. I haven't played the final result due to a broken gaming PC, but I'm looking forward to it.

Mark Hanson

Glad to hear about BG3. Larian is a great company. I'm a big fan of their games like Divinity Original Sin 2. To be honest, I think anything those guys make would be great.

Jeff Jones

Hey Deathbringer, all of my rugs are made from halflings.

Jay

PDM, Great video with a ton of solid insight. I agree that BG3 is a contender for VTT but unfortunately, I believe it and games like it may also be contenders for TTRPGs even though I enjoy them both. I remember inviting several people to play TTRPGs over the last few years and the ones who turned me down stated things similar to the “I don’t want to do funny voices” comments you made. They also said things like “I don’t really have a great imagination for Theater of the Mind” or things like “Nah, I already have several MMO’s and games like Skyrim or Elder Scrolls Online that don’t require a referee or DM I can sit and play on my own schedule.” I also noticed that many of the females I know were drawn to the video games where the Character Avatar customization they couldn’t really get from a TTRPG, and other online players would only see the avatar and they could play anonymously or with friends. For these reasons to include the DM shortage, herding cats to play the game on a workable day and time, preparation, set up, and all the other work the host GM must do can be a bit burdensome for some folks. People might complain about some video games with microtransactions yet I've put more money into tabletop games over the years than any of my video games. So it may be time to really curb the urge for new RPG games, books, and dice. Anyway, I’ve been playing BG3 and noticed some things that it does somethings the TTRPG does both of which I find interesting and sometimes frustrating. For example, using my cleric to attack Intellect Devourers with a melee attack at low levels wasn’t very effective just as it is in the TTRPG because the D20 generates too many random numbers without an average. The Gamblers Fallacy - I rolled low on the last one so the next one must be higher. Nope, every roll of a single die is not aggregated with any other roll and is independent of previous rolls learning nothing from them. I rolled low every time with a melee weapon in combat and was killed off twice even when facing only one of them. Thank goodness for the auto-save feature. However, the Fire Cantrip was much more reliable and did damage every time except one. Not the same mechanics as melee combat. I believe it uses a saving throw mechanic forcing the defender to roll much higher to avoid damage rather than the attack roll high to cause damage. Also, gaining levels in things that weren’t trained in or practiced doesn’t make sense to me. Example, magic users gaining access to spells for killing enemies. Where did they get the spells and when were they studying or training. I didn’t notice the new spells in the inventory prior to advancement. I suppose this is why Skyrim makes more sense to me because the skills you get trained in and/or practice are the ones you get better in. Never-the-less, the BG3 is a ton of fun, and I will continue to enjoy it regardless. Will likely use screen shots of characters from the creation menu for TTRPG character sheets. They look amazing. So, I will continue to play both TTRPGs as well as similar video games when I have time. One last thing. FIRE and ICE was a great animated movie I saw a long time ago and will likely become a backer for this Kickstarter. Dang it! Thanks for making me have to consider yet another game I don’t need but may be too cool to ignore. Have a great night everyone.

Brian Leet

I'm about 16 hours into a play of BG3 and it's pretty incredible. For context, I played through the entire original Baldur's Gate computer game and a fair bit of the second, I'm sure I'll only ever scratch about 10% of this one, given it's scope and my now fully formed adult life responsibilities. I agree that the game does combat exceptionally well in terms of taking in a vast area of D&D rules. However, I also find that it misses exactly that flexibility that a real DM can offer in combat. This past Sunday my group was fighting gnolls and a minotaur and one player had climbed a tree to get out of danger. After the minotaur charged and downed her ally she (a gnome paladin) jumped out of the tree weapon pointed straight down and skewered the beast from above. In contrast, in Baldur's Gate 3 you can't climb anything but ladders and pre-defined spots, nor can you even use a rope to get between levels in 'unplanned' locations. As a result, I'm already finding that combat can get a bit repetitive, particularly when continuing to face the same types of foes. The roleplay pillar of the thing is obvious I think. There i a deep story with many branching paths and excellent voice acting for generally interesting characters. It's also still clearly a choose-your-own-adventure on generational steroids. The surprising thing, and main reason for leaving a comment, is that I actually find the exploration to be the most interesting part. It isn't the same as at the table, but it is compelling. In table top D&D exploration tends to move relatively slowly, with careful evaluation of information, or quick narrations of travel and surroundings. Either way, there is a definite sense of the 'edges' of the space which the DM has considered. Even as you could go in any direction, it is often clear which ways will be 'interesting'. In BG3, the world is so vast that it really does feel like you have moments of choice to go anywhere, and there is also a distinctly rewarding feeling to systematically entering every room, finding every chest, looking for cracks you can slip through (I lucked out for this playstyle in starting with a halfling). The boundaries of where you can go and can't are artificial, but clear, and the interest in the rest is excellent. It even supports strategies like using Find Familiar to summon a raven, having the raven fly around to find something of interest, and then having it fly back to you seeking a path you could use to get there. And the first time my raven was scouting around and was suddenly and unexpectedly killed by a falling boulder (I think a trap) I nearly cheered. If I were DM I'd have decided I'd seen enough as well. Bottom line - a masterpiece as a computer game, exploration is to me the most interesting part, and a great way to fill in gaps in evenings and times when friends aren't around, but I'd rather be at the table playing.

Jay
>>115480085

You got further than I did with only 4 hours in so far but not for wanting more time to play. Anyway, BG1 and 2 are on Steam and you can get them fairly cheap or wait for a sale if you want to play them again for only a couple of bucks. I got them on sail about a year or so ago. However, BG3 blows them away by comparison. So except for reasons of nostalgia you may not find them quite as appealing anymore. Also, adult life responsibilities...I hear ya loud and clear....it never ends.

Christopher Gauci

I love TTRPGs and I love Video games. I am hardcore gamer of both iterations since the early 80s..... I think you are spot on PDM. I also noticed one thing about myself....please bare with my little story: I've been a avid collector of D&D stuff. I only last week tracked down a school friend of mine and he finally after over 20 years returned my AD&D monster Compendium back to me. I'm ecstatic. The lore and details on monster ecology and the art in those files were stuff that ignited my imagination. I have most of the early 5e books but since discovering your channel I nearly exclusively collect 3rd party content. I have no interest in the newer 5e books and have stopped buying them. They feel bland, without a soul. Like eating those unflavoured rice cakes, when trying to lose weight. I love thralling through old D&D books and other indie systems because as you so eloquently took the thoughts out if my head. It's all D&D to me. Good luck for your op. I hope it goes well. I'm a qualified doctor who specialises in Anaethetics, intensive care, remote adventure medicine and transport medicine.... So if you need any free advice or support (long distance, I'm not American) just give me a shout at gchrisg@gmail.com. Although we never met I consider you a friend. Ah the magic if the internet. Good luck again and get well soon.

Frank Matthews

Haven’t played for myself because I’m not on PC but looks like a fun time! Great to see smaller developers having success for making great games while the giant corporations spend more R&D on how to milk a whale for all of eternity. That being said, I really want to see someone make a custom GTA RP server or even a small team make their own game that lets players populate the world and create their own stories with perhaps some advanced tools for the server owners allowing for custom monsters and antagonists so they’re still acting as game master. Idk, I can’t code to save my life, but free idea to anyone who can bang it out.

Brent Norton

Anybody else want to watch the professor on Twitch play Deathbringer Baldurs Gate? I was addicted to Black Isle OG Baldurs Gate PC. I don’t know if I will pick this one up. Love Adam’s take on the miniature wargaming scene. Don’t forget,” Your party has been waylaid by bandits”. Go for the Eyes Boo go for the eye.

Chuck Thorin

Good luck on the surgery. Good video but I have the feeling that Baldurs Gate is going to heavily influence the design of WTOC's VTT and make it feel even more like a video game.

Jay
>>115474064

Yes. If you were to try out some video games such as Skyrim (still very popular even after many years) and Baldur's Gate 3 you could create a videos of lessons learned and how they might apply to Tabletop RPGs. I bet that kind of video would get some attention from the algorithm as well as fans of both video games and TTRPGs. I've been inspired by a lot of things from these types of games and used them in my own TTRPGs. I sometimes use screen shots of the player designed customizable characters from Skyrim for both character sheets and large cardstock standees placed in front of the players or back of the GM Screen and with the character’s name on tent cards so other players can reference it. This way players can see their characters as they designed them rather than seeing the player bob and trying to imagine him as an elf relying on theater of the mind or picking a miniature that might not represent quite what the player wanted. It seems to work great so far.

David Ford

Good luck on your procedure. Hope it’s not too invasive and recovery is quick

John Rakestraw

You heal quickly. Sit back and get some good reading in. DnD will always survive as a grand tabletop game. The video games only have a short half life at best. You can throw a rpg together and fight your way through a dungeon. The video games, even open world are limited by their programming. Rarely do people replay the same video games year after year.

MrGunn

DB, you are safe with me bear?!? LOL

James C
>>115540005

It depends on how much the developers loved their creation and the amount of content in the game. Skyrim is a perfect example. The game is 10 years old but some people are still finding obscure quests within the game. But most AAA companies don’t care about the game itself. It’s all about the money now, not the pride in their work, and it shows.

James C
>>115480085

It’s a good game but it has its limitations like you said. I played a ton of it during early access. It will burst some bubbles but EA only covered Act 1 and as the game progresses, it shows. The vast detail begins to slowly erode as the end approaches. Act 2 is smaller and Act 3 even smaller. Lots have been left out.

Craig Sutherland

Great video PDM! Although in my opinion, BG3 wont really have a negative impact to their VTT. Someone going to play BG3 is looking for a video game specifically, and that has a whole lot of different expectations. Someone wanting to play D&D online with a VTT, even a very pretty one, will have completely different expectations as well. If anything, I believe that BG3 will possibly pull some people into D&D that may have never done so before - and whether or not they like it may be up in the air, but that would never have been any different. At the end of the day I do not believe this will have a negative impact on the VTT. I have always loved the BG series, back when BG1 & 2 had come out, using the 2e rules. I recall a smaller scale concern back then as well as to why would players play the old pen and paper game when a computer game could replicate it with so little fuss? Now BG 3 is unprecedented as far as an RPG is represented in a video game format, but it is still limited in ways that the tabletop is not. I believe that the VTT can live comfortably beside BG3, even though I am not at all a fan of the VTT.

NemoOh

"You can have an amorous encounter with a bear... something you can't do with a tabletop game, at least not mine." :) What is wrong with sodomizing bestiality? RACIST!!! NAZI, BOOMER or something! /purplehair

Paul Michael
>>115613551

In some ways I agree with you. Yes, those who are looking for a VTT to play D&D with friends remotely aren't going to see a game like BG3 as a replacement for that experience. That being said, is the VTT niche big enough to meet the growth expectations that Hasbro has for it? Is the VTT going to pull new people into the hobby? I have serious doubts that this is the case.

Craig Sutherland
>>115613551

I 100% agree with you. I don't believe that the corporate expectations & interest for what the VTT will do is going to be in line with how it will actually do. It will just be another option in niche field where there are already some pretty effective and accessible options. If the VTT is only offered to be run natively on the users PCs, then I think that would limit their user base even more as I expect the system requirements to be a bit higher given that it is being developed in Unreal Engine 5 - I presume they will have a cloud streaming version of it as well.

Tuska

No VTT for me or my groups, Old School table games for us forever.

Steven Bogart

Thanks for including a screencap (the golden castle) of the great Atari game Adventure, which I still play occasionally. I play Rogue, the 1980 game with ASCII graphics, more often. I haven't played Zork in many years and would probably get frustrated in the maze of catacombs. A wonderful thing about TTRPGs that video games can't replicate is co-creation of the campaign. My DM uses player ideas and feedback in his worldbuilding, so we players influence the direction of the game and the construction of the world. Video games aren't my thing, but I'm glad BG3 is a big hit and hope it brings some more players to D&D. Thanks for an excellent video.

Masterhit

If they make this fully hackable it will be an incredible tool for TTRPG folks as well as video gamers. I can see releasing modules that make it OSE, Into the Odd, Savage Worlds, DCC, Sci-fi mods... or 5e hacks or settings like Symbaroum. If/when they open the tools up...