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Submit Your Comments For The Deepest Dive On Final Fantasy VII Remake Chapters 15-The Ending And Beyond (Patreon)

Published:
2020-05-04 20:01:10
Edited:
2021-10-13 12:34:32
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

This is it! The grand finale for The Deepest Dive on Final Fantasy VII Remake! In this week's discussion, we're covering everything in the game from Chapter 15 up through the ending and the post-game stuff. If you're new, you can catch up on previous discussions in the Patreon-exclusive podcast feed or on MinnMax's YouTube channel.

We need your thoughts on Chapters 15-the ending for this week's discussion! So leave us a specific comment below with your favorite line of dialogue, moment in combat, side-quest, simulated fight, etc. The more specific your comment is, the higher likelihood we'll read it on air. The last call for submitting a comment will on Tuesday around noon.

A lot of people playing along or listening to The Deepest Dive haven't played the original game, so we won't be spoiling anything for them in this discussion. I understand that there's a lot to unpack with the ending in relation to the original game here, so we're going to have a bonus discussion next week where we'll talk all about it and you'll have a chance to submit your thoughts there as well.

Thanks again for playing along, writing in, and sharing The Deepest Dive with a friend!

Files

Comments

Travis Manick

As you climb the wreckage and make your way to Shinra tower, time slowly and gradually transitions from day to night. It was subtle enough that I didn’t notice right away. Just another great touch of high quality production that really puts the cherry on this game.

Travis Manick

Now that you’ve beaten it, are you done playing? Are you going to go back for higher difficulties or trophies?

Travis Manick

Since beating it, have you started consuming any FF7R content on the web now, or are you waiting until after this discussion?

Travis Manick

In Norse Mythology, Midgard (with a d) is one of nine realms of existence, and is the realm of man. It is destined to be destroyed by Ragnarok. The themes of Ragnarok vary, but it usually involves a great war where gods and giants will do battle, and the great World Serpent Jörmungandr will arise and poison or drown the land. Ragnarok is a known, inevitable event to all in Midgard. I think this is an interesting correlation, as the willfully ignorant Shinra employees and Midgar residents sap the life of the planet for their own satisfaction. It’s like they know they are leading to their own downfall but carry on anyway.

Timothy Smith

Looking back, what what was your favorite part of this game that was expanded from the original and what, area or section would you cut out. I was most excited to see Shinra Tower be more fleshed out with runner up being Wall Market. If I could cut a section out it would be Ghost Train-yard.

NikkiNSane

Just a couple hours ago I beat the game's Super Boss, 'Pride and Joy Prototype', and unlocked the Göttendämmerung accessory, which starts every battle with a full Limit meter and fills it over time in battle. That's great and all, but I've already triumphed over the game's hardest challenges to get it. So what's the point of giving me this exceptionally powerful accessory now that I know I've learned the game well enough to have earned it? (P.S. It has been nice to have really gotten the swing of combat in just the span of you opening these comments. I felt terrible at the game but now I feel almost unstoppable.)

Sandshrewd

I feel the story was a bit too tailor made for FF7 veterans. Must have been terribly confusing for new players. Why would they care about Sephiroth? All they know is he had something to do with clouds mom's death and some end of the world scenario maybe. What's his backstory? WTF is Jenova? Who is this random guy with Cloud's sword? Why is a cat sad about the plate falling? What is Wutai? They will have to wait 5 years to maybe get these answered in part 2.

Asher

When Cloud was kick-flipping his motorbike around the Shinra HQ foyer, all I could think was: "Roche! Roche! Roche! Roche!"

Asher

I enjoyed the trainyard, I enjoyed all the side quests, but the Jenova lab was the first area I really felt should have been mostly cut. Having to keep switching between the split parties meant I had to keep shifting around my materia. This area really killed the momentum that was really beginning to build and after Sephiroth cut the bridge, nothing actually happened plot-wise or character-wise until you leave the area.

Eric Seal

Tifa is my favorite character because she's a kick-ass eco-terrorist who can somersault mechs to pieces and break into mega-corporation buildings but still hesitate to go into the men's bathroom.

Asher

Am I a bad person for being disappointed that Barret didn't die? I love him as a character, which is why my jaw hit the floor when Sephiroth killed him, only for the him to be revived moments later by literal plot armor. It felt frustrating that such a bold choice was immediately undercut.

Underachiever

Also isnt it crazy that after you run into sephiroth in Hojos lab, none of the party even mention it? Particularly Tifa

Asher

I started out hating the Rufus/Darkstar fight, but by the end it was one of my favorites. Particularly once you beat Darkstar, it really felt like a back and forth duel between two badasses that rewarded patience and skill (plus the steadfast block materia was super useful in this fight).

Asher

Did anyone else have Sephiroth counter their limit break in the final battle? When I used Cloud's Ascension limit break, Sephiroth immediately used Octaslash against Cloud, so both of them were absolutely belting each other with rapid attacks. Not sure if it was scripted or an accident, but it was amazing!!

Asher

One small quality of life choice that I love ff7 for is being able to hold square during a cutscene leading up to a battle so that you can access the menu just before the battle starts. This prevents characters join the party during the cutscene then immediately going into battle without having an opportunity to equip materia and spend SP (eg. Barret joining the party for the plate pillar fight).

Asher

Throughout the game, there seems to be hints that Aerith has some level of knowledge of future events (eg. knowing the plate is going to fall and can't be stopped). Do you think the visions of future events that Cloud sees throughout the game come from Aerith, Sephiroth, or the plot ghosts?

Sandshrewd

I also preferred the way the original introduced Sephiroth, with the massacre in the Shinra building and what he does to the Midgar Zolem. It builds a fear of this mysterious super strong enemy. I understand why they put him in the game, I think people would have been angry to lay $60 for a FF7 game and not be able to fight Sephiroth. But now why should I fear some guy that I've already beat?

Asher

While the game is pretty unclear around whether getting either shot or stabbed kills you or just knocks you out, I have generally interpreted someone as having died when they dissolve into the green particles (returned to the planet), and are just knocked out if their body is still intact. So the soldiers arresting Jonny were "asleep" and Biggs was just "pretty beat up" (And now alive?!?!?).

Scott Castro

Hey Ben and the Local Florists, Just a few specific comments (in Chapter order for Ben's convenience) Chapter 16: The music that soundtrack's the Collapsed Expressway gets a lot of crap for being terrible, but the music that plays while in the scene wherein Scarlet is using a lowly grunt as an ottoman and watching the materia expand is downright cringe-inducing. It plays for a short time after, while you're navigating the halls of the Shinra building, and I took the liberty of transcribing the lyrics if any one of the cohorts would like to do a dramatic reading "Fireworks to light up your night's sky In a flash life and love can go awry Let me take you higher Fulfill your desires Stilettos and lingerie both complement, supplement In my grandeur I'm all natural Beneath this crimson dress In my splendor beneath jewels and finesse, and ELEGANCE! What you see Is what you get Only passion, no regrets Only triumph I've got nothing to hide So sit back and enjoy the ride!" Chapter 17: After spending hours in The Drum flipping switches to open the ward doors, move platforms, and communicate with Tifa and Aerith, why do Cloud and Barrett think that clumsily banging on the giant door (the one that houses the Swordipede) with their giant sword and gun arm is going to be effective? Chapter 17: The scene with President Shinra pointing his golden pistol at Barrett, who cautiously backs away, makes absolutely no sense. The man has a damned cannon for an arm!!!! Chapter 18: When I assessed the three Whispers during battle, the description read, "An entity from a future timeline that has manifested itself in the present day." One fights "bare-handed," one fights with a sword, and one uses guns. Are these three whispers supposed to somehow represent Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett? Chapter 18: As someone that never played the original FF7, I have SO MANY QUESTIONS about the ending. Being the polite guy that I am, I will only lay one question at the altar of the cohorts. After that gauntlet traversing the Shinra building, navigating the Drum, the series of back-to-back exercises to appease Hojo, the death-defying escape and highway chase, and the battle with Destiny itself...... did Tifa finally get that shower?

Tom

Just wanted to throw in one of my favorite emergent moments of gameplay during one of my favorite fights in the game. Cloud was getting worked over by Rufus and having a very challenging back and forth, which lead to finally reaching his Limit break, uttering the line "Let's dance, asshole" and then finishing Rufus off with Ascension. It was an exhilarating (and in my mind, canonical) way to win that battle. Nobody else was around to see it, so I felt the need to share. It was an incredibly designed battle that truly rewarded mastery of both of Cloud's stances and your ability to time parries. Also - a good time to start to burn through any Elixirs you felt needed saving for the last stretch of the game.

Branford Hubbard

Should Red XIII have been playable? With the game being split into parts, we see this part having a very specific party makeup to make sense, as you only have 4 characters, how do you think this will effect later parts? Considering this game's last bit, and kingdom hearts III's secret ending, Is Nomura gonna be okay?

Michael Moran

Hi Ben, You are doing a great job. Remember to stand up, stretch, and look away from your computer screen regularly. I haven't played this game yet but if it ever comes to PC I will listen to all 600 hours of deepest dive content. Thanks!

PseudonymousJoe

As someone who spent maybe 2 hours with the original, I have many questions after beating the game. Many of them I imagine I'm supposed to have, but many of them also feel like they should have been answered by now. For example: who/what is Sephiroth and why are we trying to stop him? And what's up with the flashback where Tifa was dressed, as Kyle so eloquently put it "like a Dead or Alive cowgirl"?

Ben Taylor

I'm torn on the 1v1 fights (ex: Reno in Chapter 8, Rufus in Chapter 17). Story-wise, they were usually pretty satisfying. Presentation-wise, they tended to be highlights too. But the combat itself still felt gimmicky to me. It felt more "lock and key" than most bosses. For example, you had to figure out to block and counter on Reno. You needed to guess which ability (Braver) would stagger Rufus. Etc. Yes, there were a few alternate strategies, but much of the creativity from other bosses was gone for those fights.

Travis Manick

Why is Sephiroth able to defy fate and fight/defeat the Whispers so easily compared to everyone else they interact with? Is he just a big strong boy, or does is there something special about him?

Patrick Kelly

I played FFVII back in 1997, but the only thing I remembered really before playing Remake was the opening and the Other Thing that hasn't happened yet, so I don't have the crazy nostalgic baggage that some angry people might have over the ending. The game really got to me by the time I was finished and I kind of can't stop thinking about it. From a character and story perspective, just the idea that Aerith has knowledge of the original game's events and seeing how she might deal with that going forward, is really interesting to me. Wherever they choose to go with the plot or time lines or whatever the meta level is, I hope they keep the character focus as strong as it was in this game and just dig into how all that will affect her and every one else.

Eric Merrill

Merrill, They topped my previously favorite part, with the same thing but way hyper! Fighting Sephiroth and Tifa shows up pops next to Cloud, he says “good to go?” As they both do a little half step in sync, and I proceeded to beat the snot out of him. Once they crew started showing up in that fight I felt like I was getting better and rising to the challenge.

Mark Miller

Really amazed with the game overall now that it's done. I think the standout for me in these chapters were the Shinra immersive marketing video in the sphere and the final two fights against the giant entity and Sephiroth. The production value here is mind blowing and was really just a cut above everything else in a game that was already pushing beyond just about every other game available today. If that's just a glimpse of what the future holds I simply cannot wait for the continued future of gaming. I have always adored the FF games for pushing to show what the generation of hardware can do from an audio/visual perspective and this game was the first since 10 that I really thought WOW this is what games can be and look like. Chef's kiss to everyone involved with making it and to MinnMax for the fun discussion!

Eric Merrill

Last comment from me, I’m a big sucker for the way the game transitions from cut scene to gameplay with the dramatic camera swing. Doesn’t matter how intense or dramatic or sad the scene is you know exactly when you have control again! Keep up the diving!

Plessie (Jesse K)

The MinnMax crew has touched on how this game is, in many ways, a Greatest Hits album of systems from earlier in the series (staggering from 13, learning abilities from equipment from 9, some features of the combat from 15). I'd like to add that the battles with the summons are reminiscent to the big fights with them in 14. I also want to point out that 8 doesn't seem to have any systems or features represented. What would I like to see from 8 (besides Triple Triad)? Basic spells of all elements! 8 has water, tornado, quake, holy and the like, whereas Remake couldn't even be bothered to make water a proper element. Leviathan is non-elemental? Absurd.

Dan H

The Shinra boxes were super satisfying to slash, but I found them to be a bit too generous as well. Every time I found some, I had my team all use Cure, then slashed the boxes and got all my MP back. In my 38 hour playthrough, I never used a single Potion or Ether of any kind, only ever using half a dozen or so Phoenix Downs. It turned out to be good practice for Hard Mode, where you can't use Items anyway.

Joshua Wiljanen

Do you think this game will capture the hearts and minds of kids playing it for the first time today like the original did when we were kids? While I had a good time playing it, I personally don't think it will. Thanks for the great discussions!

Adam Dominguez

Sephiroth is an X factor again and I'm here for it.

Adam Dominguez

I like the built-in side quest of getting all the enemy skills. More of this, please.

Jeff (GazpachoManRandyCabbage)

I'd love to hear a newbies (JeffM or Kyle) in their own words, without any help... explain who/what Sephiroth, Jenova, and Zack are.

Prodigal Horse

I loved the literal use of “Remake”. The whole FFVII was being remade by Sephiroth. Only grumble is that to make full sense of the story so far you might need a deeper knowledge of FF than is acceptable in normal society.

Jeff (GazpachoManRandyCabbage)

Also, I haven't been paying super close to sales in the news (what is known at least) but I love the business side of things in the industry. If sales are great for this, how do you think that impacts the timing and scope of the next entries (will we get a world map???)? if sales are poor, based on squares bizarre history of expectations do you see a chance that next chapters are severely limited, cut short in any way? I asked this on the discord too full disclosure but would love your thoughts!

Jonathan Quevedo

Running up all the stairs was probably my favorite part of the chapter. The fact that even cloud starts getting exhausted and barret considers going back down had me laughing the whole way up.

Evan P

I’ve been using the prayer ability as Barrett a lot lately and every time I do, I like to imagine what Barrett’s prayers sound like. Can one of you guys help me out with this?

Evan P

36 hours in and I threw my first grenade. Turns out...they’re pretty good!

Justin

I thought the intro of Roche near the beginning of the game would make for some pretty neat additions to the game. However, now that it's over...what was the point? Was he just added to move the plot along earlier in the game? In my head I kept thinking he would show up near the final motorcycle scene, but alas, nothing! I'm not necessarily complaining, I thought the remake was a great tribute to the original, but this has been bugging me lately.

Carl Luther

As a FF7 veteran, I love the premise that Sephiroth is manipulating with the events in order to change his ultimate fate. That said, with SE's recent track record, I'm worried about their ability to execute for future installments. I'm also worried about them alienating newcomers with an impenetrable story/plot. What did y'all think about the end? I loved the whole game but didn't think they stuck the landing.

Odyssey

Dear Benjamin, I'm proud of how far you all come since Gameinformer. Now, to why I re-joined Minnmax - to talk about the Remake! 1) The real mystery isn't the time travel - it's "Why did Square choose to make this a sequel to the expanded FF7 Universe"? Crisis Core is great, but the rest includes Advent Children, that mobile game and Dirge of Cerberus...woof. 2) Square effectively wrote themselves into a bad story hole. The only way to create a remake that revisits Midgar AND make it a sequel is of course...a time travel/multiverse story, e.g. MK 9, MK11, Terminator Genesys/Daenarys and Marvel Endgame. The time travel/multiverse stuff in these make no sense, requiring drama, over the top action and good characters to disguise the nonsense. By the way, the Edge of Creation looks similar to the final time stage of MK 11 where you fight Kronika, just without a giant hourglass. 3) The mechanics of the time travel is vague and poorly delivered. I get it, hardcore fans like Maximilian (youtuber) love theorycrafting and I appreciate his talk about the "levels man". But it's still awkward and dumb! You're not sure what Aerith knows, and all the characters say vague dumb time wimey stuff like Red 13: "Is it our destiny to defy destiny?". I'll come back to this. 3) Square Enix has a poor track record of time travel/multiverse stories, that are also sequels! FF13-2, FF13-3 and 3rd Birthday ruined FF13 (which was bad already) and Parasite Eve's legacy respectively. Hell, even Chrono Cross was weird as a sequel to Chrono Trigger. There's literally a line in 3rd birthday where someone says "I'm going on a journey to find eternity". Also, in FF13-3, "Destiny is Destiny". This dumb stuff infected the dialogue at the end of Remake. 4) Personally, I never expected Remake to be a sequel. My jaw dropped seeing Zach and all, but the scenes, dialogue and character motivations just dropped in quality during the final chapter. I would have been ok with creative freedom and crazy changes that diverted from the original, just as long as it was good and made sense in and of itself. Now they've blown their load on that Sephiroth fight, and it's the stupid Advent Children Sephiroth too where he says nonsense like "This is the edge of creation". Let's see if they can salvage this.

Odyssey

The pacing in Shinra building was baad. The combat simulator and Hojo lab attempt at Resident evil puzzles just slowed the last part to a crawl. Further, the motorbike chase went way too long and should have added cool attack options like using Red 13 to shoot fireballs. It just felt slow and clumsy with your limited set of motorbike attacks. Also, why was Shinra's VR marketing simulation showing Meteor and the destruction of Midgar? Barrett clearly commented on it being "inappropriate for kids" , so he must have seen it too. Did Sephiroth pick up a VR programming degree?

Christian Haines

So, first let me preface my question/comment by saying this is my first time finishing a JRPG, but am I the only one who felt the game was poorly paced on both the macro and micro levels? I feel like 4 or 5 chapters were mostly corridors (often sewers) with same-y enemies, meaning they could have been stripped out with their cut scenes redistributed into the other chapters. The cut scenes were marred by overly long pauses in the dialogue, as if the game developers didn't trust the players to understand the gravity of the words. And then there's the forced walking/disabling of sprint for the sake of dramatic effect. In sum, I feel like the game is full of great, sometimes even amazing, parts, but poor editing/pacing makes the whole less than the sum of its parts. I'm glad I played it, though.

Asher

Kyle, as a father of a young child, I too would 100% just let my kid sleep in the same post-plate falling situation. Sleep for a child is absolutely precious, and a child who has slept will be in a much better place emotionally/can actually be reasoned with.