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Poor Things vs. Barbie - Verily Podcasty - Ep 7 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-28 15:59:07
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Women. They're everywhere these days. But even more noticeably, two films came out last year with the theme of an artificially created woman on a journey of self discovery, one family friendly, one very family unfriendly! But which one was good and which one was bad? Depends who you ask. And you did ask! Us. Many times! So let's get to it!

Videos mentioned in this episode:

Feeling Cynical About Barbie by Broey Deschanel

"NO CGI" is really just INVISIBLE CGI (3/4) by The Movie Rabbit Hole

Files

Comments

allykitten87

Would definitely watch a video essay on poor things.

m.stnbssr

Yes! Please do make a video! 🥳 Aside from your video on Barbie, I saw so much praise for Barbie and a lot of criticism for Poor Things, especially from feminist sites and creators. As a hetero cis white guy, I felt pretty unsure about my contrasting perception of the two movies and especially its portrayal of feminist themes and toxic masculinity. To me it seemed that Barbie itself essentially parodied all the bits of valid societal critique it had into pieces. While Poor Things made me laugh, feel disgust, intrigue, concern and made me reflect a lot. Especially about how it portrays the male gaze in all different shades there are. There's so much to unpack! I hope you won't drop the topic just yet! 😅 But either way, thank you so much for your insights! 🙏❤️

Nashira409

I think y’all are giving way too much credit for Bella allegedly not looking perfect. How great would it have been if she developed a bigger belly from the pastries she loved to devour to go with the hairy legs she really should have? I also think the sex was way more performative and attuned to an audience gaze than made sense would have been interesting for the character. Where would Bella learn to make that kind of O-face. I don’t think that kind of performance is purely unconditioned and you can see the directors’ other movies (eg dogtooth) for truly unconditioned sex that’s not performative

April Elliott

Oh i shared the Barbie video you made in the group chat with my friends and it sparked some good conversation. One of my friends was like "Yeah at the end when she said it left her feeling a bit worse about herself, i felt exactly the same"

Ghosts And You Might Die

Oh, this was so good, and I would love a video about Poor Things! I have not yet seen Barbie, might never do -- I'm mostly indifferent to the spectacle of it, and definitely critical of the commercialism of it, so, meh. But I very much enjoyed Poor Things, and a lot of your comments here resonate with how I feel about it. Extra shout out to Ada's occasional righteous cussing about it, I think we share some specific enthusiasms about various bits of Poor Things. I startled my partner by unconsciously echoing Ada's "fuck yesses" out loud (twice!) while listening to this on headphones, haha.

Verity Ritchie

We had some other comments on the Barbie video expressing the same thing! Not a totally uncommon experience, I think!

Verity Ritchie

We do agree that they could have gone further with Bella's looks but compared to Barbie where Margot Robbie is always styled and shot to look conventionally attractive even when she's meant to be at her lowest, Bella Baxter isn't always meant to be glamorous, and compared to, for example, Emma Stone on the red carpet, she really looks a mess at times. Not to say they couldn't have pushed that further, but in contrast to Barbie, it feels like night and day. Which sex scenes in Dogtooth do you have in mind? Because to us, sex in Dogtooth reads as an intentionally deeply uncomfortable, unpleasurable experience whereas in Poor Things, Bella's sex scenes with Duncan Wedderburn, for instance, are meant to be wonderful and exhilarating. I'm also not sure what you mean about her O face.

Nashira409

I bring up dogtooth as a rare example I’m aware of that shows what sex might look like for people who haven’t seen any Hollywood or film sex performance. Bella is a child and uniquely free of social conditioning but for some reason she emotes and moans in a fashion that’s pretty hollywood. She doesn’t dance like other people or talk like other people but the expressions and sounds she makes from sexual pleasure are in the familiar style, and I think that’s a serious failure for a film that wants to explore a naive character’s sexuality in order to offer a feminist societal critique. And it’s all the more frustrating because the director’s use of sex has been really thoughtful and creative in their other movies. As far as Bella maybe not looking red carpet ready at all times compared to Barbie, I feel these are crumbs. Audiences deserve more 🙂 By the way even though I seem to be arguing on this one 😅 I am a *huge* fan of your work. Thank you for all that you do!!

Verity Ritchie

Haha, that's alright, thank you for the kind words! I think if we were talking editing and cinematography we might be on the same page, but I don't think the performances in Dogtooth vs Poor Things are comparable because the characters are having completely different experiences of sex. And Poor Things has such a wide variety of sex, from masturbation to good sex to bad sex, can we really compare sex with Duncan Wedderburn in Poor Things to sex in Dogtooth, or does it make more sense to compare the sex work scenes in Poor Things to Dogtooth? In which case, the sex scenes are very similar, because they're both meant to be uncomfortable and largely unpleasant. But the performances are also melodrama, right? The film isn't meant to be nuanced and realistic, everything is hightened and over the top. Bella wears Victorian clothing, but all the fabrics and colours are completely anachronistic. There are giant crumbling staircases which stretch across class divides. I don't think they're going for realistic at all. As for being red carpet ready, this is what the makeup artist said about Bella's makeup: "Bella’s face is purposefully kept make-up-free for the first half of Poor Things. ‘Yorgos always insists on no make-up when it’s not specific for a character and in this instance that is completely right,’ says Stacey. ‘When we first meet Bella she’s a baby and even if you saw make-up that was just applied for screen it would pull you out of the story. We concentrated on Emma’s skincare instead and used clear brow gel and matte lip balm just to polish her for the screen.’" https://www.wallpaper.com/fashion-beauty/poor-things-hair-and-make-up-yorgos-lanthimos-film It's only when Bella starts doing sex work that she starts wearing makeup, which makes sense. So I dunno, I think its fair to say they were doing something pretty different from Barbie. But for sure they could've gone further, and the fact that her armpits are shaved is just ridiculous.

Gabriela R

I really really enjoy listening you talking with each other and I'm really happy to support you on Patreon ❤️ thank you for this episode 😊

Tovi Cherepanova

Thank you for this episode, it was lots of fun listening both of you, and thanks for reminding that Daises exist, wanted to watch this one a long time ago and forgot! I'd definitely love to watch a video on poor things

Muireann McGlynn

I'd probably be interested in a Poor Things video but I think I'm Barbie fatigued. Doing topics a while later is fine but when it was all over the media for so long, and it felt so bleak, returning to it might be a bit exhausting.

Hold my kombucha

I had enjoyed Barbie when I saw it and haven't seen Poor things. After listening to this podcast I see Barbie in another light, more insidious. Thank you for enlightening us!

cady

"The fat Barbie is Barbie's friend Fat Barbie" made me laugh so hard

Tass

late to this, but echoing everyone above that a poor things video would be super interesting - perhaps less so the barbie side now, although i found your discussion here so insightful! i really didn’t like poor things when i watched it because i hated the way it handled dis/ability, and used it solely for comedic effect. that may well have been impacted by watching in cinemas + the whole audience laughing at the r slur etc, so maybe i should rewatch alone sometime - but i’d be interested to hear your takes on that side of the film?

Jam Doe

I'd love a Barbie (film) criticism!

G

Went and watched Poor Things after listening to this and really enjoyed the film :)

Verity Ritchie

Ada: I put off watching Poor Things for a while because the trailer gave me very Music (2021) by Sia vibes but when I actually watched it, it didn't feel ableist to me (but I'm also not an expert on that topic so!). However, I totally get a film being ruined by the cinema audience, that happened to us with Love Lies Bleeding. :/ I would recommend maybe rewatching Poor Things on your own, I think it will feel different!

Kseniia

Hii, heard you mention Daisies on the podcast - I just watched it and it's an amazing movie, I'd love to see/hear you talk about in more detail 😊 just spent an hour analysing biblical references and admiring the cuts 😉

no

i've had for a while a problem with patreon not taking payments and for a bit i fell from your guys' podcast and i'm so glad to be back, what a joy to listen to even the episodes about the stuff i dont care and this one is sooo good