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g27

7:28 How do they pronounce the babies dead without giving the parents their child for them to bury the body?

Mike G. M.

Funny thing is that I've seen enough anime with this exact plot point that it makes me think that Japan just understands the concept of "government facilities don't return dead children"

g27

They don’t return dead children? What if the parents ask for it? I don’t understand.

Mike G. M.

Look, I don't know if this is actually a thing that happens in Japan. (Maybe it did back during the WWII era when Japan was famously doing some messed up things all around). All I'm saying is that I can think of at least 5 anime off the top of my head that have the plot point of "I gave my child to a government run medical facility, then they told me my child died and I never got to even see their body", so whatever the reason, this is not an uncommon trope over there.

g27

If this is true, then I can’t understand now how the society even allows this.

Philip

If someone goes missing long enough can’t they be pronounced dead?

g27

You mean in this episode? Yes they can but the parents didn’t believe the story.

Mike G. M.

Heres the thing: if we assume for a moment that this situation was actually real and wasn’t just a government conspiracy: if theres actually no body they can bring; what is supposed to happen? Even in real life, i can think of a number of examples where a child has gone missing/presumed dead, but because theres no viable leads theres no way to find out the truth no matter how much the family demand answers. And on the flip side theres a number of industrial/natural accidents that’ve happened where they know with 100% certainty the person is dead, but it’s not physically possible to retrieve their bodies so again, theres nothing that can be done no matter how much the families of the deceased would request it.

g27

Lucky talked about the case he worked on where neonates are just pronounced dead and sell them in the black market. In his case, there’s no way the body will disappear for any reason inside the hospital. What’s strange is why don’t the parents take the “body” of their baby?

Mike G. M.

… did you not understand what Lucky was saying? In the case he was talking about there is no body to give? The newborns are taken out of the hospital alive first and then pronounced dead in the hospital records. Theres literally no body to give the parents no matter how much they ask for it. What exactly are the parents meant to do? The demand the body of their child, the hospital says “we wont give it to you”. What exactly is the confusing part here? The idea that they’re allowed to do it? The entire point is that they’re aren’t allowed to but they do it anyway because whats stopping them? Though if your asking about why questions aren’t raised about it: eventually they are. Though the reasons that they might not happen right away though is that hospitals are legally allowed to “delay” releasing a dead child to their parents for valid above board reasons. If they’re trying ti get away with something though, they just wrap it up in legal speak to try and delay it indefinitely and again; what exactly do you expect the parents in this situation to do about it?

g27

The confusing part is that the hospital won’t give the parents their child that’s dead, (like what are they going to do with it? If we assume from the perspective of the parents) and then the parents are like “Well… they won’t give us our son🤷‍♂️”, bro I would go full Rambo to get my child that they pronounced dead idgaf. The idea is that how is their society just used to not getting their newborn babies when they’re allegedly dead? The hospital can just say “piss off, he’s mine now” and everyone has no sense of mind whatsoever to respond? Yeah there’s cases but I can’t believe it hadn’t escalated as much as a freakin riot. How can a hospital just not give you your child back? Even if it’s dead? TF?

Mike G. M.

Theres 2 ways to look at this: First is that like i said, legally speaking hospitals aren’t required to give a dead child back instantly. Specifically they’re allowed to refuse if they think the body is infections and so releasing it would be a health hazard, they’re unsure of how the child died and are waiting for a high level autopsy, or if the child is (unfortunately) to be used as evidence of medical malpractice. Those are all legally valid reasons, but the idea behind them is, as mentioned, that theyre are only delayed for some time. But thats at least a genuinely allowed reason for a hospital to say “sorry, we cant give you your child’s body just yet” if the parents ask for it. On the not-so-legal side though: i get that you say you’d be willing to go Rambo on the place, but most people aren’t you and willing to risk life imprisonment or death for what in theory just amounts to personal closure. Like its not like they’re trying to save their child; if they think/know their child is dead, they’re asking just for a body, its not like anything is really going to change. And while certainly most people would want that closure, they might not be willing to risk everything *just* for the sake of closure. It’s horrible to say but: to a lot of people, it just isn’t that important. For a lot of people they just give up trying to fight and try to move on instead. It sucks, but thats just the way people are. (Also in cases like this, the corruption that involves paying people off to look the other way also just isn’t helping matters either.)

AccordingToLucky

Oh trust me, they had a whole system. As soon as its born, they say something is wrong and take it to another room. Then they come back and say they did all they could. Then they tell the parents they'll take care of everything for them, so they can be together in this sad moment. If they demant a baby, a dead newborn body was shown. Its a horrible case. Or they would make up some other excuse. Many parents didnt even realize they might've been victims of this until they heard a story of the first woman. Then over 35 women contacted the hospital and their lawyers. Its a case that after 40 years hasn't been solved, because the politicians protect these people... Also, one woman found her child being raised in another country by the family that bought her. But its a bitch to prove... Horrible case 😭

Mike G. M.

Honestly my dude: i obviously knew you’ve been in law for a while; i never would’ve guessed you would’ve been involved in a case that messed up. Speaking for myself: there is no way id be able to be part of a case like that and remain professional about it.

AccordingToLucky

That might've been the most emotional case.. Seeing all those mothers crying in confusion.. But not even close to the most brutal case 😭

Bogdan Petrovic

How hard would Luckys sotrytimes go. I guess ur not allowed to speak about it?

g27

The juice is probably confidential lol.

AccordingToLucky

Yea, i can only speak on closed cases sadly lol I will however have the wildlest retirenment stories lmao

g27

Lucky, I don’t understand when you say “when they demand a baby, a dead newborn was shown.”, because who’s the parents of that dead newborn and why didn’t they take that body? And when you say “was shown”, okay what if the parents ask for it to be handed over for burial? Just shown? Mike G.M., where I come from, you can’t do experiments on dead people without consent under the name of “hazard”. Also, I ain’t just risking imprisonment and death on the theory of my child being dead or not for closure, I’d do it even if I know that the child’s dead and I only want their body. > “It’s horrible to say but: to a lot of people, it just isn’t that important. For a lot of people they just give up trying to fight and try to move on instead. It sucks, but thats just the way people are.” No wonder this happens to them, they’re a shit society, they’re weak, I know from experience that these lines can’t be crossed, because a full war would break in within the country.

AccordingToLucky

In most cases, they convince parents that they need the body for an autopsy, to see why the baby died, even tho it cried during birth. Then days later they say it was a mix up and the body got creamated already. The parents signed of on the autopsy that includes the hospital isnt liable for anything that goes wrong, gg, u cant do shit. U understand now?

g27

That cracked me up what the hell🤣 Bro there’s a lot but I’m going to end it here lol.

Nicholas Kent

DON QUIXOTTE DOFLAMINGO !!! One of the best vilains of the show ! And Crocodile was evenly matched with him during the war, yes... But let's be clear, he's weaker. And as you've already noticed, Crocodile should never have lost to Luffy lol

AccordingToLucky

CROC SAN IS A FUCKING LEGEND! Doflamingo has nothing on Luffy's mom😎

g27

I laughed because the way you said it makes it feel like a bunch of kids interacting with each other it reminded me of what we used to do as kids, eat the other’s candy and be like oh I thought this was mine… oh well🤷‍♂️ (😏)

AccordingToLucky

Well u forget its a very stressful and unique situation. People trust their doctors, nobody in that situation is thinking about the doctors lying to them, someone who took care of their pregnancy for 9 months is now all of a sudden your enemy? No. They believe anything they say. Later when they suspect something, its already too late.

g27

It’s just insane to me how Mike G.M. described it. “To a lot of people, it just isn’t THAT important” “It sucks, but that’s just the way people are”. All I hope for is justice against the people involved in the harm done.

AccordingToLucky

He is sadly right. Most dont even ask to see the body, since the terrible news already broke them and they trust the doctor :/

g27

So they won’t want to bury their kid? Damn! You also said that they tell them they’ll take an autopsy to see why the baby died, but from my view, I wouldn’t want that at all. This whole thing is unacceptable on both ends but I guess that’s what happens over there.

AccordingToLucky

U'd be surprised how many people dont wanna deal with burrying their child.. They let a hospital take care of that.. Also, yes, they explain they have to know to prevent future kids from dying, in that state of mind, most say yes.

g27

Even in that state of mind, they shouldn’t say yes, on their own kid? No way!! They can do other things. I have respect for people no matter their age, and they deserve to be dealt with dignity and respect, they deserve it even if they can’t respond to you because they’re a baby, they still deserve it. You know some people kill their own children. You hear a lot of stories on that. What triggers me the most is when parents get an unplanned baby and they say, well we didn’t “want” a child. It gives off the feeling that they’re just dealing with it. I hate this so much the toleration and lenience from the parents is also wrong the same way the hospitals took advantage of the way these people think.

AccordingToLucky

Well from their point of view, the hospital promises them to cremate the baby after the autopsy, that everything will be handled with cate etc. People just wanna heal, so they leave it to the professionals most of the time :/

g27

What happens to the parents that don’t want the cremation and didn’t agree to it, but agreed to the autopsy? Now the hospital needs to give them something back right?

AccordingToLucky

Sure, they have actual bidies of babies that werent cremated yet, im sure they had a back up plan. We dont know those details, im just guessing at this point, since the case was never proven or resovled, too much political infuence covered the hospital and doctors. It was a whole scandal. Powerful people protecting powerful people so they dont get in trouble. Sad world my friend :/

g27

It’s really just like I said, the power they want can only be given to whom has a pure heart, that’s why they do these atrocities to children.

AccordingToLucky

Sad world bro, like u also said, people kill their unborn kids nowadays our if pure convinience, it is what it is. The best we can do is be better examples 🫶🏼

Maks Lesniewski

Did you know Vergo's VA also voiced Grimmjow?