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569 - Consent Factory Simulator feat. Trevor Strunk (10/21/21) (Patreon)

Published:
2021-10-22 02:05:47
Edited:
2021-10-22 02:06:32
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

We’re joined by the No Cartridge podcast’s Trevor Strunk this week to talk VIDEO GAMES. But first, a quick look of Democrats abandoning their long held promise to reduce prescription medicine prices. Then, we talk Trevor’s new book “Story Mode”. We discuss the role of video games in culture, appreciating emerging art, and how much video games can influence culture or individual behavior. This then segues into a discussion of the nature of labor, value and “work” in the 21st century, and the Jungian-sexual nature of “speedruns”.

Pre-order Trevor’s book “Story Mode: Video Games and the Interplay between Consoles and Culture” here: https://www.powells.com/book/story-mode-9781633886803

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Comments

Brian J. Lancaster

One of my favorite episodes, and my main job is game dev.

B

I knew that Felix wasn't on this episode before listening purely because it's about gaming and it wasn't 17 hours long

Flesh Colored Subaru

Best thread I saw in a couple weeks was the librarian who said it was colonial settler mindset to say that books were better than videos games

Evan Pitkin

Wtf Felix. Of all the episodes.

Matt Crossin

Matt is right to correct Will by noting that what the democrats ‘want’ is irrelevant, but he substitutes that liberal framework for his own about ‘party structure’ and ‘lobbyist influence’. He needs to talk to the antifada guys more.

Josh

I’m gay

Swaguncle69

Bring back Virgil Matt v game debates

Annie Brennan

Will I’m very disappointed in the way you pronounced Oregon

Torgosaves

He didn't want to upstage Trevor with his knowledge of Dark Souls

Memory Erasing

"traveling right now" i've always appreciated the plain cover stories for felix just being the bad group member and i borrow them nearly everyday myself

Louie Luke

Military recruiters love COD. I remember back in senior year of high school an army recruiter told me “it’s just like call of duty you like that right?” Had to break it to the guy I’m more of a halo guy. Guess space force recruiters could use halo as a selling point.

J P 3

Dems also ran on cutting drug prices via reimportation from Canada in 2008. They ditched those commitments as well as soon as they got into power. At a certain point the question with reconcillation is whether it is worth passing anything. e.g. infrastructure bill already sucks. As Matt Bruenig has pointed out, the family leave policy in the reconcilliation bill is probably worse than the status quo for a lot of voters.

Ian

Good guest

Gordon Schmidt

Matt at around 16 minutes in is totally on the money. What do Richard Neal and Cori Bush have in common? What is the party for? The Democrats are just not a coherent party and won't be unless either they experience a progressive takeover or make a Clinton-style shift to the right. Honestly I wouldn't hold my breath for either, at least not anytime soon.

Solarwind

I was promised metal gear solid lore discussion

calvin kilby

Great guest, I love Trevor's podcast.

Osborne MOCs

You could do an entire episode on how the video game industry upholds US imperialist orthodoxy and anything resembling criticism is just superficial lamentations of how emotionally harrowing it is for those involved (usually US combatants). America's Army is blatant propaganda but COD alone has some of the most brazen examples. Retconning the Highway of Death to make it a Russian atrocity, fighting alongside Jonas Savimbi in Angola, riding an aircraft carrier named after Obama, getting a pep talk from Reagan, etc.

seasound

oh weird I'm playing Outer Wilds right this second. how bout that.

Matthew Black

So happy to hear somebody mention Kaiji. It’s not that overtly political but it’s the most proletarian manga series (this was an actual thing historically) currently going and it’s honestly crazy insightful.

Brandon

Hahahahahah when the fuck did they put Karl Marx in an Assassins Creed god i love this fucking show

Brandon

Presinald trunt

The Mad Mango

My main issue with Demon Souls (the PS3 original is the only Souls game I've played) isn't the difficulty. It's that when you die, you have to pointlessly repeat large sections that you already mastered or that were always easy. Large amounts of playtime are taken up fighting grunts rather than fighting the actually difficult enemies. This could be easily fixed by having closer respawn points, or just being able to save anywhere. I find that video games in general rarely respect the player's time. Way too much filler. My favorite video games remain the first four Metal Gear Solids. They're short, and have lots of unique non-repetitive scenarios throughout each game, lending themselves to lots of replay value. The fifth one had excellent mechanics but was sadly a 40-80 hour open-world behemoth with all the repetitive design that comes with that structure.

Yes Ma'am Kablam

The working and gorging then pinning all your hopes on winning a game controlled by the people with the money all feels very appropriate. One of Fukumoto's other manga, Kurosawa, hits a lot of similar points and even goes in on the US more than I'm used to seeing (but it's not a major plot factor).

ScottB

Just started playing Assassin's Creed 2 this evening and was playing it while listening to the ep

Jeff Martin

I was hoping you would talk about America's Army. It was a very solid game on its own merits but it was eerie getting decent at it and mowing down enemies. And it was totally free to play.

alan clay

Been a sub for a minute. Probably the least interesting or funny episode of all time

Louie Luke

He was in Syndicate apparently

Matthew Black

For me it’s just the plotlines and the atmosphere. Like Fukumoto draws all his characters as these anticharismatic big-nosed, big-toothed moai heads instead of as conventional anime people. And the gambling theme is so appropriate not just to working-class Japanese society but also, like, where you’d see manga ads. Like his art and plots just feel like a sweaty packed rush hour train or a smoke-filled pachinko parlor.

Gengeros

Must have been watching Matt to much, but the millisecond I heard of teaching kids though assassins creed my first thought was “global Homo”. I’m a millennial, I grew up and went to school as a pause away from video games. You went to learn some vague thing that you forget on the way home in the bus and social interact with other kids IRL. You would go home and the thrill of turning on pc and playing Diablo II, heroes iii, or Star Wars battlefront II. God only knows what zoomers are learning now a days in school if anything. Having them play video games in school as “education” is inherently degenerate and prime example of late stage capitalism clown world. No more social intern-action or actual learning, just plug into your pod simulator for nine hours a day so your parents can work 18 hours a day at their three jobs in your one bed room apartment in Manhattan. Glorified daycares for future soldiers/prisoners. Really fucking terrifying. I had someone born in 2000 who didn’t even know who Colin Powell was. Dam I’m starting to feel really out of touch with modern youth akin to my grandparents and I’m only 29. I can only imagine how bad it will be by the time I’m 99, if humanity is still alive by that point.

Gengeros

I think it’s painfully obvious that talking about us domestic politics in terms of congress, scotus or us president is utterly pointless. Its two groups of zombies (k hive radlibs versus Qanon chuds) and we shouldn’t part of either of these Georges Sorelian counter gangs. The situation is so fucking bleak in terms of nuclear World War III (immediate short term danger) and climate change (long term / continuous danger) that nothing in us politics matters at this point. I have a brother who was talking about scotus and I just like “scotus does not matter, only mass action does.” He’s still got that liberal mindset that we need to reform the us government. Because we are First Nation empire babies. Revolution is scary. Bombings and military action is only for the global south under the us imperial boot to experience. We need to get out of first worldist mindset. Revolution comes though the barrel of a gun.

Gengeros

Bernie is a sheep dog and would have governed akin to Obama. He had two chances in 2016/20 to change the political landscape but blew it. Because he didn’t want to win. Why would a 70 something year old want to win? When he could “push” his good friend Biden “left. Fucking Rosa Luxembourg killers man.

Gengeros

Gridlock is good because I don’t want congress to pass anything. I want the ameriKKKa empire to collapse.

Gengeros

Will still has some of that liberal mindset still in him. He needs to combat his own liberalism. Lord knows I’ve had to do that myself.

Xinic5

Hating on Assassin's Creed...😕

Shauna Seroquel

I've read Tristram Shandy AND Tom Jones -- but I think the last new video game I played was Legend of Zelda, so that should tell ya something.

Alexander Fuchs

don't keep your children away from German romanticism!

Scot Forsythe

Damn that last bit on UBI block chain kinda blew my mind, talk about speculative assets…

Alex Temple

Love Richie Neal slander.

Tam Mansilver

The bill also has billions to transition 75% of the grid to clean energy by 2030 but I guess it’s easier to be smug than push for that.

otis

Matt is back, bois

TheSingleE

You would like Dark Souls 3 a lot more, Fromsoft got a lot better at incorporating shortcuts as the series went on.

Dustin Nelson

Karl Marx from Assassin's Creed: Syndicate was a great touch

Dustin Nelson

Games and movies DO have value to learning. People were inspired to study sharks by Jaws. My brother got a Master's in Physics because he was so fascinated by the conceptual physics in the plot of Bioshock: Infinite. Don't just dismiss the usefulness of entertainment as inspiration.

Ryan Johnson

Yeah man, I believe. Boy, I hope nothing to completely gut that transition happens by 2030!

Tam Mansilver

Doing nothing is better than doing something. I am very smart.

Mr. Lobotomy

Far Cry 5 was a difficult and underrated game that was great to play

PrinceVocalFry

I read them at the beginning of the pandemic and honestly they're great. Tom Jones is fun and charming and Tristram Shandy is one of the funniest books I've read. The movie, "A Cock and Bull Story" by Winterbottom with Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon is also great if someone wants to get into it.

Mr. Lobotomy

A friend and I took turns breaking each other's speed runs for Soul Calibur game on Dreamcast

SPENCER PIBBLES

you can have a threesome with a goat and a man in Assassins Creed Odyssey.

Snoot

Assassins Creed is a fun introduction to history that honestly does make players (at least me) want to learn more behind the underlying events. After ACII I wouldn’t help but watch the Borgias series from Showtime and really learn more about the events/controversies. ACI is a really interesting introduction to the crusaders. Don’t hate too much. The gameplay itself and missions aren’t super interesting, so agree on the formulaic nature, but I think the injection of interesting historical events, that most people will otherwise never learn about, is overall good and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Ryan Johnson

It will still end up as nothing. They are equivalent you rube.

Gregory

Ubisoft completely bastardizes mythos and the worst part all you do is climb fucking towers in every game they make.

Kasz

I want Matt's take on squibs re: Alec Baldwin murking a crew member with a prop gun

Daniel Martínez González

The fucking discussion about difficulty is something precisely the young scrubs with social complexes invented 10 years ago with Dark Souls, until that point no one cared. In fact Sega, the king of arcades, put difficulty settings in all their arcade conversions to console for the simple fact that you want your game to be played by anyone at home but also want the kids putting coins in the arcades. I beated Mega Drive arcade conversions on hardest difficulty settings after starting out on easy mode when I was a kid, that's how replayability is made for those types of games. If Golden Axe just had the arcade difficulty in console I would just got bored and never touch the game again. But everything has to be a fucking proud identity nowadays to rub in others' faces.

john mccainus

the halkias expansion (emphasis on expansion)

Eye Twenty-Six

The "needs an alarm clock for 2 PM meetings" community deserves representation

Richard R

omfg read "Human Condition" by H Arendt you dorks. labor =! work.

RealTalk

The easy mode discussion was approached from the wrong way. If you spark notes a book you didnt actually read it. If you watch a 10 minute edit of a movie you didnt actually watch it. If a book reviewer or movie critic reviewed one of these versions it wouldnt count but games journalists frequently play games on the easiest setting to get through them quicker and are a part of the group of demanding easy modes in all games. Imagine people who never read books demanding an author to write a shorter version of their book with simpler vocabulary or having a director to make a 30 minute version of their movie with themes explained. If the developers choose to include an easy mode thats their decision and its fine but the people demanding games have an easy mode just so they can play them or play them quicker are dumb as fuck. Accept something isnt for you and move on.

RealTalk

The whole argument is dumb as rocks. Easy mode wont subtract enjoyment from someone else playing as its intended to. But nobody is entitled to be able to enjoy anything. And games journalists shouldnt be playing and reviewing games on easy but who gives a shit about video game journalism ethics at this point

aghs

God bless Trevor for mentioning Kaiji

Shauna Seroquel

Yeah, they're soooo hilarious! I read them both decades ago but they made a huge impression -- that was back when I was doing LSD for the first time and I remember feeling Tristram was so unexpectedly psychedelic in its own way. Yup, the movie was also dope -- what a weird place for that duo to go after 24 Hr Party People!

Chuck

Fastest Mario conversation brought me back to beating the 'Archives' level in under 4min and 20sec. to get the Golden Gun cheat in Goldeneye.

Dan

No joke, playing Age of Empires 2 did give me a basic overview of world military history. As I recall, my first exposure to the Crusades and Saladin came from Age of Empires 2 and the Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie.

Dan

While we are on the subject of dubious historiography in video games involving secret societies, Age of Empires 3 is wild. The entire single-player story mission posits that colonization of the Americas was done at the behest of a secret society called the Circle of Ossus, who are searching for the Fountain of Youth ( which exists) . You fight the Ottoman empire in 16th century Mexico, the Russians in 17th Century Colorado, and the Circle of Ossus is trying to use the French and Indian War as a distraction to conquer the 13 colonies. The 'Asian Dynasties' expansion pack features a Chinese campaign where Chinese sailors make contact with Americas in the 1400's, based uncritically on Gavin Menzies' book "1421: The Year China Discovered the World". What could possibly go wrong with adding video games to a school history curriculum?

Harry

Honestly how could you do this ep without Felix

Shauna Seroquel

I was thinking that too, but I think it would have been an overload!

Gwen “Zootown” Nicholson

RIP Virgil Texas, killed by a Templar for revealing the truth about the Papist Alien Conspiracy

Kasz

They did record with Felix, but Chris decided against adding his audio track to the main mix for obvious reasons.

mad turtle

I want to have a conversation with someone who thinks games are not an art form. The only times I hear that opinion it coming from someone like Matt that has a very surface level knowledge. I want his thoughts on Outer Wilds or Hades.

mad turtle

Also, talking about video games as a whole but only centering the discussion on the AAA market is dull.

oooeeeooo

You never kill the pope… This guy is a big fat phony

Slumbertron

This isn't showing up in my Apple Podcasts feed. Anyone having the same problem?

Slumbertron

nevermind, I restarted my phone and it appeared.

oooeeeooo

More lies Games from earlier on during the 80s to 90s were difficult because Japanese game developers were designing for themselves and other video game nerds There’s an early episodes of VGCX where Arino interviews famous game makers from that time and when he asks why were games so difficult back then, that’s the answer they give

Ian Priest

Templars stopped Felix from coming on because they are anti-gamer

s r

Bernie 'Buck Broken' Sanders

Joey

Video games are obviously already an art form. This notion that video games are not yet but may or may not someday *become* an art form by finally getting artsy enough is extremely up its own ass. Also, disappointed there was no discussion of Metal Gear Solid as promised, just Dark Souls and Assassin’s Creed, two franchises I would love to see go away and leave me alone forever. Nonetheless enjoyed a video game episode and looking forward to reading this book!

Caleb

They really had a video game guy on the show without Felix that’s just cruel

Gengeros

Only thing gonna save us from climate change is overthrowing capitalism worldwide. Period.

Gengeros

Congress tends to "do something" on top of doing a whole lot of bad shit as well, like subsidies for fossil fuels, oil pipelines, war, etc. Yes it is better for them to do nothing at this point.

Evan C.

Ya’ll don’t seem to understand what the Discovery Mode in Assassins Creed is. It has nothing to do with the game’s story. It’s actually a fantastic tool, where they guide you through the extremely high-fidelity historical sites with cultural commentary and context from historians. The research that went into AC Origins literally helped real life archeologists and historians to discover a long-lost chamber in the Pyramid of Khufu lol. The research and scans that brought Notre Dame to life in AC Unity has helped immensely in the current restoration project. Not all of the games are great, but don’t discount the historical labors of love that go into many of them.

Jed Turner-Collins

It's also worth noting that the arcade machines themselves had difficulty switches, so that arcade owners could tailor the machines to the skill level of the players.

ADIFT

Oh jeez, have felix on at least. This sounds like someone who mostly chuckles at pretentious book clubs and went down the top 100 games to play list without having any understanding of them.

Daniel Martínez González

And those games would last at most an hour or two once mastered. Unless going speedrun dodging content, the notorious difficult games can last 12 or more. There is people who want to try it without needing to sink months into mastering it for whatever reason, it makes clear how much free time these kids want to spend on those games but most people have other obligations. And if you aren't going to play in an easy mode because you are so goddamn elite, why the fuck do you care? Just play on hard.

Alec Whitmore

Echoes of the Eye or the main game?

seasound

Echoes of the Eye. perfect for spooky season it's great. kinda makes me feel dumb tho.

Blake Patraw

oh fuck the rhcp lick made me laugh so hard

Nobody

Disco Elysium is amazing. Also Matt having to talk Video Games is hilarious

Biannual Beats

“We didn’t get a chance to talk about Metal Gear Solid…” was the worst thing you could say to end this! Please talk about it :)

The Mad Mango

I figured that was probably the case based on what I had heard about it years ago (on the Giant Beastcast). But I mostly consider Chapo to be a comedy/satire show first and foremost, so of course they’re going to go with the more comedic angle rather than the more accurate one.

The Mad Mango

That’s awesome! Bioshock Infinite is very underrated, probably because it was overhyped to infinity. I have very fond memories of that game.

Gregory

When AC unity was comically broken? Back when Giant Bomb still had some teeth.

Ben L

Incredible bit to do this without Felix

Blake Patraw

why does will talk like that like fr he's been hearing mario his whole life and just refuses to say it right

Blake Patraw

i hate when they cut themselves short, this time saying they can't talk about mgs because they're out of time. says who?? it's your own podcast, you can go as long as you want! nobodys gonna be angry like FUCK YOU WENT TOO LONG WHY IS THIS AN HOUR AND THIRTY SEVEN MINUTES GRRR like you're just talking fuckin keep going if theres more u wanna talk about. I'll never ever understand it

Blake Patraw

i know they just arbitrarily cut themselves off like they're syndicated or something and need to keep themselves within a time constraint. its literally a podcast, you can go three hours if you want. i don't get it and never will

Ryan Hoover

Biggest party foul ever: pronouncing “Mayrio Party” as though there’s not an implied poetic assonance between the two words

Evan Silverman

Nothing is true, everything is permitted was actually William S. Burroughs translation of Hassan I Sabbah's alleged last words from Betty Bouthol's the master of the assassins.

Benjamin Kelly

The video game guy isn’t on the video game episode

etienne

how do we feel about the chapo partial VA job getting replaced by a full performance by other actors in the last update?

Meatwad Cosby

…………………I still play Fortnite.

Porblorbulon

What you saying Sunlust is better than Columbine?

Dr. Ron Jambo

I didn't get the point about Tristram Shandy but Felix NEEDS to read that book! Mainly because of Uncle Toby but also Knausgård

Kasz

Yeah to me difficulty always was an accessibility thing more than anything. It's not hard to imagine there are people who for some reason can't manipulate a mouse and keyboard or video game controller to the extent that allows them to enjoy the game. Especially narrative video games where it's reasonable someone wants to experience the story. Also there's people who just worked a long day and just want to switch head spaces without rage quitting a second thing that day.

etienne

read Dreaming In An Empty Room to understand even less about MGS

Kasz

And you are still court obligated to introduce yourself to your neighbors any time you move

SF

I also did undergrad English Lit.

Gary Alexander

Theyre very obviously using a Marxist definition of labor. Me folding a paper airplane isn't labor unless it somehow has exchange value for someone else.

——

Occasionally I briefly forget That chapo and all its listeners are the biggest fucking dorks in the world...

Nobody

It's better with actual actors for sure

KingKirbyTheNewGod

These recent episodes have really shown how annoying these guys are sometimes. Even the guest who's some sort of "video game expert" has no clue what the Discovery Tour from Assassin's Creed really is lmfao. At least do a little bit of research instead of shitting on something you clearly know nothing about

rizzlord

Games were hard because of the influence of arcades.

etienne

I really enjoyed Matt and Will's parts. Whatever. I'll replay that game somewhere in 2027. Wanted to do a Full Fash playthrough but ultimately I didnt have the balls to be a racist homophobic shit directly in front of Kim

Nathan McBrady

Are you...Honesty defending the idea?...

KingKirbyTheNewGod

The discovery tour actually teaches real life history. It doesn't have any of the story of the AC games tied into it and you don't kill people in it or anything. It's a completely educational tool

Joe

Rare miss for me. I don’t know how you can take an episode about video games and make it so dry and joyless. Really wish Felix could have been on this one.

Tom

Yeah man, fortnite is about class. Yeah

MrMojoRisin

Was so excited for a video game episode and we get this, lol. How do you say that fortnite is about class/scarcity in one breath, but then outright deny any political inferences from dark souls of all things in the next? This dude didn't even know that you fist fight Rodrigo Borgia in AC2. Also, I'm pretty sure he didn't really understand Dia Lucina's article on difficulty and its brief mention of disability. Having lower difficulties in video games can, and does, enable more disabled people to play them (accessibility options are broader than just difficulty, though, which is what Lucina states). I'm glad felix wasn't here - they should have him on for a better video game guest.

justoneman

Y’all need to read Games of Empire by Nick-Dyer Witheford

Frederick Von Drasek

...what? No Felix? Jesus. I haven't listened to it yet, and I guess I just got an hour of my fucking life back. That's just odd that they didn't make sure he was on for this guy...

Matty Oly

Recruiters used to pass out free America's Army disks to kids at my high school.

Padjoe

I think the more accurate analogy for FROM difficulty is not the introduction of digital film editing but if someone has read the cliff notes of a book or actually read the book. I have zero issue for them adding an alternate game mode that is more accessible as long as the original game is the way it is. Maybe have it as optional DLC to not inflame the psychos. I do think the challenge is a crucial part of the game though and wouldn't like to see it watered down. It is not an accessibility issue as seen by all of the disabled people who can easily complete FROM games.

Chantz

Jeez... sometimes I remember you guys have areas you just aren't knowledgeable about. Without Felix there was almost zero actual knowledge of games, this guy really didn't know what he was talking about for lots of the pod.

doug

felt bad for the guest because if it were me, i would have taken a lot of these questions as a chance to just veer wildly into speculation and bullshitting about the political implications of a lot of popular video games. It almost felt like he held back out of a feeling of being beholden to actually "know things" and "do the reading" which as a non-academic, lol.

Nolan

Fucking nerd.