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Hinge Points Episode 6: Let's Roll (Patreon)

Published:
2021-12-10 22:00:04
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Matt and Danny Bessner, from the American Prestige podcast, analyze one of the most important hinge points of their young lives: the September 11, 2001 attacks. They examine how 9/11 provided meaning to Americans after a decade spent searching for it, how it solved the crisis of liberalism that permeated US politics during "the end of history," how the Internet shaped the response to 9/11, and how things might have been different if 9/11 never happened.

Files

Comments

Austun

It sure is.

orc

9...11! *audience cheers*

T

9/11th

B2B Commuter

The fact that Band of Brothers premiered the Sunday before 9/11 has always been one of those things that makes me believe that it was possibly a little more than just blowback for our imperial follies.

Nick Lawrence

I’m liking hinge points more than the regular show

Taylor Borie

We were already doomed by this point

NYCM&AHole

Should be “if bush hadn’t done 9/11”

Regis P

I like to argue the passage of NAFTA did more to change American life than 9/11. That’s before listening to this ep

Of course

9/11 was less a hinge point than beside-the-point

miltonic

Good episode, thanks

Boaz Corey

"If I Hadn't Not Done It, Here's How It Wouldn't Have Not Happened"

Antipaganda

Huh. So America IS the Great Satan.

Lesley Anne Noelle

Three planes, to be fair…the pentagon, if nothing else, IS a building.

James Murray

you guys ought to do a hinge points where things actual turn out worse than what we got. would be interesting to see what you guys focus on!

Isaac Jones

I consider Danny's point that 9/11 did not produce great art to be American Idiot slander, and for that I WILL not stand

burrito bronson

Im loving hingepoint. Keep up the great work fellas

MoldyTolge

Thought you were trolling at first but you might be right Diego. NAFTA goes overlooked

Regis P

I’m from the border so I’m biased but it sparked the drug war in MX and basically solidified the transition from manufacturing/industrial to the consumer economy

Regis P

Much more low key and I think influential of the cultural undercurrents in the US

Kirko

I enjoyed this episode, especially the last question. There are a couple of good videos by Lindsay Ellis and Todd in the Shadows about the protest music during the Bush presidency, and they basically argue that many artists just showed cowardice following what happened with the Dixie Chicks. Also, do you remember the way Michael Moore got booed at the Oscars? No surprise that no memeroable anti-war art was created during that time.

Mitch H.

Love these hinge points, would double my subscription if it meant I never had to hear the opening song ever again though.

Derp

This continues to be one of my favorite podcasts. Thanks for another great episode!

Ellen Harold

Film "Pearl Harbor" was released with great fanfare on May 21, 2001 by Disney. According to wikipedia: " Disney premiered the film at Pearl Harbor itself, aboard the active nuclear aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis, which made a six-day trip from San Diego to serve as "the world's largest and most expensive outdoor theater". More than 2,000 people attended the premiere on the Stennis, which had special grandstand seating and one of the world's largest movie screens assembled on the flight deck. The guests included various Hawaii political leaders, most of the lead actors from the film, and over 500 news media from around the world that Disney flew in to cover the event. The party was estimated to have cost Disney $5 million." The film received an Academy Award. "However, it was also nominated for six Golden Raspberry Awards, including Worst Picture. This marked the first occurrence of a Worst Picture-nominated film winning an Academy Award." (Wikipedia)

Patron

Ad-hocracy!! A+++++

William Beamish

...worse? than what we have? you are sick!!

boki

Would you consider taking a stab at the Balkans. It’s right prior to the 9/11. It gave cover to the US interventionism on moral grounds. But Can you flip it a bit a explore the possibility of saving Yugoslavia.

boki

The historical oddity of the region is of some note. Assassination of Frans Ferdinand, Tito and non-aligned movement, and of course the Balkan wars and the Clintons.

K102.1FM Mornings w/ Jonny Corndogs

Oh, spicy hingepoint this week boys! Downloading it now so I got something to listen to this weekend! Love the setup you guys are doing through Patreon. I loved Hell of Presidents, but I don't want to make another account on another goddamn website/service.

Jeff Martin

I would like to hear The Professor's take on the Balkans. This Chris character sounds nice too, and the girls look like they are enjoying their meatballs

Bobby Volcano

Is there further scholarship around this "Internet shaped as trauma lens by 9/11" concept or are you guys just pulling truth MOABs out of your drone asses in realtime?

J P 3

Wellstone 2004 would have been an interesting counterfactual. Bernie in 2008 had only been a Senator for a couple years. Unlike Wellstone, he also was never really a movement builder. He ran in 2016 because no one else would. Obama in 2008 was also a juggernaut -- substantively he turned out to be a disaster, but he ran two exceptional presidential campaigns. As far as culture of the 60s and 2000s goes, I would throw in cheaper cost of living and city rents. Obviously, we also operate in a capitalist system, and the Boomers were a huge generational cohort with a lot of discretionary income (even as teens and young adults). Gen X by comparison was a less lucrative market. Smaller numerically and poorer. The net result is Hoobastank and Creed.

peter c donahue

The only good protest music in the gulf war II era was ‘The Wiggles’!

Lesley Anne Noelle

Vietnam made art? Idk about that. Music was already being freed from the supragloss by folk…and black Americans art was the “other side of the empire”. Wealth gave students time to fuck around, to try one thing after another, one school (literally or of thought) after another—then they became yuppies, who gave everyone behind them the finger. But three or four movies at a time when studios were DYING isn’t ‘art’. I just don’t see it quite the same way~that’s a wholly different discussion, including the post WWII writers.

aagg

Like everything else 9-11 shoves the discontent and accountability from nafta away for 20 years.

AJS

Christ this is a good show. Pardon the desk-appleing, but as someone whose lack of a coherent 'big picture' narrative made the world a confounding place this shit is so illuminating. Thank you and hope you keep making em.

_tarrvis

hinge points one of the best thing you've guys done. love hearing more history.

dtd the sloth

this episode was incredibly good. top notch

Dillon Wild

I love hinge points but the intro music is truly insufferable

Twinka Bo Binka

Another great episode, although disappointed not to hear Sy Hersh’s article about the bin laden assassination come up in relation to the zero dark thirty bit. Hard to say, of course, whether Katherine bigelow had any sense for whether or not the story she was being given was total propaganda or not, but…like…she knew who she was working with on that film, which ties into the art question. I think Matt mostly gets it right but I also think it’s interesting to think about the differences between Bigelow’s background as an artist and Cameron’s. Cameron is coming to filmmaking more or less from the outside, without formal schooling in the medium, and worked his way up through the trade by working in it. Bigelow, on the other hand, went to the San Francisco Art Institute (of which I’m also a graduate). SFAI is the last of the art schools modeled on that sort of Black Mountain College approach to arts education, which really treated the European emigres and Ab Ex era artists as their ideological guide star, which basically amounted to a position that said the most radical political expression one can make is radical self-expression. Serge Guilbaut’s “How New York Stole the Idea of Modern Art” is really good on the deradicalication and demarxization of the artistic avant-garde in the late 40s. There was some great contemporary art made during and after Vietnam, but unlike the more popular art of the time, it rarely looked at the war in the face. Instead you got conceptual art and, a bit later, feminist art. But so by the time bigelow is getting educated in this hardcore temple of contemporary art, the medium had already long been scrubbed of any radical politics, or any politics, really, beyond identity politics (I remember much was made of The Hurt Locker as a study of masculinity at the extremes of experience from a woman’s perspective, in line with her previous work like Point Break). Anyway, might be making too much of the effect elite arts education has on an artists politics, but I find it interesting that Cameron’s are both more populist and more anti-imperial than Bigelow’s.

Adam Sullivan

This one unlocked and shareable, would be nice.

Darius

Talk to Robbie Martin about this .

maxthrash

it deserves better, or something thats at least not electro swing adjacent

Yup

Unlock this one, real good

Yup

Oh and P.S. the music is perfect

Nick

This series is just so great thank you for putting it together

Of course

The only hinge point that would qualify since the end of WW2 is Graydon Carter calling Donald Trump a "short-fingered vulgarian" in 1988, launching the world's greatest hero's quest for revenge and love that has reshaped all our lives for the better.

Of course

And along the same lines, Xi's 2013 Belt and Road speeches in Kazakhstan and Indonesia pretty much matched the 1947 Marshall Plan speech at Harvard & Clinton's 1993 NAFTA speech.

Regis P

Let’s start our own podcast: Bullets Dodged

LC

Love these but please change the intro lol

DJ B.

There was good antiwar art in the early 2000s it just wasn't mainstream 👺

DJ B.

It's too cheerful

DJ B.

Good episode though sure

Leon Sugarfoot

That Tobey Keith song is unfortunately going to be stuck in my head for days to come

Gamer Michael Douglas

Honestly needs to be a 4 part episode, it felt too condensed. But I’ve always thought that the evolution of the history channel (WWII glory ad nauseam etc. to the science of the Bible) embodies the cultural shift they’re talking about. However I’m pretty sure the non stop WWII programming was post 9/11 which proves band of brothers and saving private Ryan were preemptive psyops therefore inside job not taking responses on this

Matelda

The official 9/11 story is that there was a conspiracy. The crazy thing only nuts believe is that the conspiracy included someone else.

Alex Berkowitz

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahshshshshshshshshs

Tam Mansilver

if the left’s only vision for the future is doom, gloom and inexorable decline then winning over any converts is a much tougher task

Rock Wallie

No! sorry. Love the intro

Rock Wallie

Sorry. I love the intro music. Dont change it ever please.

momilli

I think they're saying it's possible next iteration of postwar "therapeutic state" - there's no longer a bureaucracy to turn to, so turn to decentralized internet

Yup

Where can I stream just the theme song?

Pete

Rock Wallie

Only podcast theme I get up to dance to

Adam Murphy

Good shit. I've spent a lot of time thinking about a world where 9/11 doesn't happen.

Conner O'neill

Can someone tell Matt that he has to stop saying “hegemony” so often. It’s out of control.

Stan Refermat

That’s a really good idea. The two main hinge points I could think of where things could’ve really gone worse in an instant are D-Day and the Battle of Gettysburg

The Children of Jack Acid

dude, WWII was on the history channel before the history channel even existed. Honestly the WWII craze seems to have started with the generation just a FEW years younger than the hippies. So, like, in the 1970s you have all these "Werewolves of the SS" type movies, and bands naming themselves "Joy Division" or like Sid Vicious wearing a swastika but not being a Nazi, etc. And then suddenly Indiana Jones is watching Nazi faces melt. I think the serious WWII documentaries started showing up on PBS just a little bit later, in like the early 80s, and they've never really stopped being the preferred programming for dad-aged men dudes ever since. (The one thing that HAS changed, though, is that Civil War documentaries are kind of passe. I guess they just aren't as much fun to watch, now that we've realized all those battles were really about slavery.)

David Cox

I'd hedge my money on hegemony. Heck, even hedgehogs!

The Children of Jack Acid

I thought the "crazy thing only nuts believe" was that they actually packed the Twin Towers up with 8 million Claymore mines or something and detonated it at the exact moment the planes landed in the building, because if we thought that planes did it, we'd all be fooled into taking vaccines.

Cody Hokans

When Matt says around the 19:30 mark that “every terror attack afterward, coincidentally, turned out to be an entrapment plot by the FBI”, what is he referring to here? A specific event or multiple?

Matelda

All that is just to argue (whether it's good or bad evidence) that someone else must have been involved

quantumsoma

Is this the last Hinge Points ep?

Ricky

many dozens of Richard Jewell-like domestic terror cases

Munir hakim

Are any more eps coming?

Mr. Lobotomy

That’s funny, we need the state to save us from politics

Johnny Boddy

Post Vietnam art had less to do with war more to do with psychedelic movement & black Americans still not getting rights. Post 9/11 we got Nu Metal - Is ThAt NoT gOoD eNoUgH fOr YoU?

sandman

Love these episodes, hope you make more