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608 - The World’s Mack (3/7/22) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-03-08 04:13:45
Imported:
2026-06

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We’re back from the first leg of our tour of the South and here to look at the responses to war in Ukraine brewing in the foreign policy op-ed world. We’ve got reading series by Shadi Hamid in the Atlantic and our old friend Max Boot in WaPo, both asking “well, yes, American foreign intervention has been very bad in the past, but maybe this time it would be very good?”

Tickets to Houston, Dallas and New Orleans shows still available at: https://www.chapotraphouse.com/live

Files

Comments

Steven J Pietras

"What am I going to listen to while I fall asleep.... LETS GOOOO!"

Evan Pitkin

Hoping for maximum boot.

aghs

10th

Major bit me

Wait so does this mean I’ll have a chance to become an officer’s attaché?

Max Headroom

Wait, are Matt and Amber dating?

Donahue

No he's dating/engaged to(?) someone else coincidentally named Amber.

Max Headroom

Ah, well there goes my Felix/Christman slash fiction #BiederChrist

Vincent Utah

You’ve braved the South and patted yourselves on the back, but the real question is do you have the balls to enter Idaho?

Elliot Matheny

Depends on which part of the state, not sure people with Semitic surnames are entirely welcome in some parts…

Gengeros

Only way to disband nato is disband capitalism

justdave

I'm playing elden ring with two uchi in my right hand, one with 'unsheath' and the other with 'spinning slash' with the spiked cestus in my left hand, I switch between the two depending on the situation, then I hit em with the cestus when I'm up close

Jessica S

I feel like there should be a rule that you can only agitate for war if you are currently on your way to fight. Otherwise STFU thank you very much.

AKorgar

Idk I think the Chapo boys are being needlessly pessimistic, I think nuclear war offers us all a really nifty opportunity to sidestep this whole climate change thing that has been giving us all such anxiety

sam handwich

that bleed damage with the katana is unmatched felix is right

Tom Joad

I agree. The great reset. Maybe white Jesus will get it right next time.

Pendleton

About 13 minutes in, Matt commented that the US put Putin into power. I hadn't heard that one before. Does anyone know where that comes from?

Jessica S

The thing about the what-aboutism invectives aimed at the main argument you guys and those of similar mind are making is not what-aboutism. It’s demonstrating point by verifiable point that we have created the conditions that could only end in this. I don’t want to remove all responsibility from Russia - if they feel no moral obligation to non-aggression, then they at least should see that invasion and occupation is not sustainable without brute force and indefinite destabilization. Instead, if I take an uneducated stab at reading their minds, they seem to believe they can do it the “right” way, that America failed b/c we’re less competent. That’s no less delusional that us believing Russian is inherently bent on world domination. No, where these numbskulls go wrong is thinking that the US would WANT a different outcome. From what I understand, no one outside of Ukraine seems to care about their membership in NATO. Besides, does anyone think their non-member status would keep the US from intervening - of course they don’t think that b/c they are screaming for it! Support talks between the two countries and then exit NATO. Let them figure out their own military strategy in Eurasia, I think they would prefer that as it is.

AKorgar

The US, specifically the Clinton admin, played a big role in the Russian elections in the 1990s, helping to make sure that Boris Yeltsin defeated the Russian Communists, and more or less making Yeltsin our boy in Russia. Putin was Yeltsin's protege and successor so indirectly benefited from that US patronage. That's one of the really ironic things about any kind of talk of Putin rigging the US election

etienne

"The americans rigged '96 for Boris" was such a well understood concept that Jeff Goldblum played in a 2003 comedy fictionalization movie of that campaign

raychilldolezal

Foreign Policy Bloopers Blunders and Boners call now for two free tapes just pay shipping and handling

Gary Alexander

The professor I'm TAing for this semester gave a lecture explaining the causes of Pearl Harbor from the Japanese point of view. The students reacted by denouncing his shameful Tojo apologism, of course.

Gengeros

The way these liberals talk about Russia right now resembles how the Nazis talked about the soviets prior to the battle of Berlin. That putin, a mongol khan, and asiatic hordes of Muslims are coming to rape white women and destroy western civilization. A war between Europe and Asia. This is the kind of rhetoric you herd before genocides. Scary ass shit. I’ve been talking about this anti-Russian racism, cause that’s what this is, for a while. I mean we had cia directors call Russians “Genetically Driven” to Co-opt and I told some close to me this and they said that’s fine. Now tell me with a straight face we aren’t the fourth Reich.

Gengeros

This is reminding me of Libya. Just flood in literally as much weapons as possible and flood the entire Europe with the spill over. Yea let’s just rearm all of Europe worked well in the 1930s. But this is capitalism. It’s in crisis and we are in a Great Depression. This is 1931 and this is Manchuria. The capitalists will start a new world war because of the contradictions of capitalism. We need world revolution when they start the war.

Scot Forsythe

Will just describing tpp in the outro

DopeTipped's Raid:Shadow Lessons

Guys. I'm saying this as a veteran of 8 years worth of SXSW as sound tech to some of the bigger acts of the last decade... There will ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT a DOUBT, 1000% will be WELL over 600 people trying to get into the CheerUpChucks afternoon showcase at 4pm. It's just how it works during Southby. Anyone expecting to get seats better camp out. Have a blast yall

Don Workman

Add the bloody slash and you’re unstoppable

Shelley Berry

yeah, the idea that the US wasn't constantly engaged in election fuckery in Eastern Europe is historical blindness. :/

Robert Merges

Every time Will mispronounces Mujahideen an angel loses its wings

pat

strength builds >>>>

AbeLinkin

Please drop subscription price to $4 plz life is so expensive

William

Wait. Can US be bad, but also Russia bad too?

William

The most annoying thing about these fucking libs is that they can't stop fucking talking

IHaveHemorrhoids

I finally just saved enough for earphones! Pro tip: i guess people on public transit don't appreciate Chapo as much as us?

Evan Scott

In the 1996 presidential election the favorite was the communist candidate and after it went to a runoff between him and Yeltsin, Yeltsin went on a several week long bender , made no public appearances, refused to debate Zyuganov, and mysteriously still won the runoff. It's pretty well established that the weight of US political consulting and media manipulation and other machinations propped up Yeltsin in 96 but there's a reality that's more often whispered than discussed that vote totals were actually just fabricated on top of that (actually there was a bit of a scandal in Russia during the 2012 election when Medvedev just straight up said "listen we all know Yeltsin didn't win in 96")

orc

Sending these guys to mountain west is a risk to their lives lol

Clarp Blarpkiss

Wow, first one in a little while that I've seen actual fans comment on

chapotraphouse

We're just going to have to be extra annoying and incomprehensible for all the badge holders who show up out of curiosity.

jim obrien

Idc about you being a putin apologist, its more that weve heard you guys talk about yemen and afghanistan, and talking about the major land war thats going on this moment is a bit more interesting

newglarus

Good episode though I will say assuming everything is Americas fault feeds into the dead notion of American exceptionalism. Left and right, America’s narcissistic media only cares about the war in the context of how it effects them. Like it or not Russians do have agency and you don’t need to feel obligated to explaining away their responsibility just as much as you don’t have to ours.

Demented Avenger

I just wish Putin would send me the promised checks!

Teddy Ballgame

The key thing is that we are the worlds only superpower. So even setting aside the direct evil shit we’ve done (wars) — inherently most other bad shit is at a minimum partly our fault! We had the power to shape post USSR Russia and Ukraine and made it the shitstorm it is today because it was good for capital! We have been the alpha and can set the global tone — and we’ve made that tone: “it’s a capitalist smash and grab for all the loot and power you can get” — this has its trickle down in almost every third world conflict

Ascetic Blur

See you guys in Houston barring you know...... thermonuclear annihilation.

Null_null

Just to add to what Matt already mentioned here, there are absolutely like...millions of Americans openly rooting for Putin after Tucker gave them permission to do so. You could've called that argument a strawman a few weeks ago (especially since most high profile Republicans in congress and the media are some of the biggest hawks out there), but not today.

Null_null

The notion that anyone on the left is rooting for Putin is total bullshit, though.

Demented Avenger

Matt Taibbi and Radio War Nerd have been on this.

Joel

Thank you for this episode which immediately motivated me to become a Patreon subscriber again

absoluteboi

what's worse about all of these msm liberals scolding anyone who tries to say 'pump the brakes on uncritically adopting this hypernationalist ukranian mindset' is that none of them have following the nato vs russia tug of war over ukraine over the past decade longer than maybe a weekend in 2014 where they glanced at an article that they couldnt comprehend and couldnt be bother to dig further into.

vermouth

Who is the guy theyre talking about who accidently reported war crimes? I dont keep up with shit

Alejandro Pepsi

Man, Boris really is a good boy. I brought my wife to the ATL show, and, ngl, was worried if she'd have a good time (it was our first concert in a theater since covid). But then Boris came out with his friendly owner and decided to sit in my wife's lap the whole show. What wingman 😉 thanks Boris and Chapo!

chetan kadodwala

World's most powerful Country spent the last 60 odd years imposing it's 'order' on the Planet now facing blowback on it's action's. Russia making a mistake with this war doesn't absolve the US for it's crimes. BTW where are the people with Yemen flags supporting a very poor Country being massacred by the Saudi/US/UK coalition?

Major bit me

It’s a shame someone named Shawty has such shit takes

Chris

Boris Smallest King

Kevin Hickey

Unfortunately they’re in roubles :/

newglarus

I’ll pass on the what aboutism but Didn’t the USSR exist until 1991? America has imposed unilateral power for 30 years (not 60) but I get your point. Saying “we” put Putin into power is just a display of American Narcissism. If the chapo crew mocks neo libs for thinking Putin gave the election to Trump then equally why would our influence in the Yeltsin election be anything but that? Mild pressure that wasn’t going to change the long term outcome. Also Yeltsin stopped World War III, so the grass can always be greener. But blaming everything on a single choke point is no different to “thanks Obama.” I appreciated the previous episode when the Chapo crew did focus equally on Russias actions and US historical involvement.

Michael Branes

i went str/fai build. wish i had gone dex/int now, because fuck these finger blasting evangelicals

Matelda

Terrell Starr live tweeted that the plainclothes militia he was with had shot up an ambulance for refusing to stop on command

Evan Scott

"If the chapo crew mocks neo libs for thinking Putin gave the election to Trump then equally why would our influence in the Yeltsin election be anything but that?" Because the Yeltsin campaign hired American political strategists and distributed American and IMF money to essentially bribe people into voting for him and then Americans likely aided in fixing the vote counts when he still didn't win. Little different than buying $50 in facebook ads dude. Suggesting those two things are somehow equivalent is what actual 'what-aboutism' is. Yeltsin's approval was in the single digits when the Americans went in to stop the communists from coming back

EUGENE HETZEL

The issue isnt that America has done a lot of skeezy bullshif, its that the need to reflexively whatabout when we arenf directly involved in this conflict, so why mention it right now unless you equivocating or normalizing. Its not relevant to the current moment of this war, so why bring it up unless you have an agenda? tl:dr Why so whatabout?

EUGENE HETZEL

But...and hear me out now. .what if these complaints, accurate though they are, arent germane to the current moment, anymore than they would have been when any other country invades another illegally. Certainly, we understand the malign influence we have waged, how we were fooling around before this, but if we arent directly involved at this moment, its just not that much about us, its about Russia invading Ukraine. That would suppose we waged influence in Russia enough to instigate this act of aggression.

Brendan O'Kane

Yup. All of this stuff is just inverted American exceptionalism -- baby's first ostensibly leftist position. Between this and the sneering about Xinjiang, where I have friends who nobody has heard from in four years, I'm done with Chapo until they learn literally a single fact.

Evan Scott

not everyone has conducted a sloppy enough lobotomization on themselves enough to convince themselves "it's not relevant to the current moment of this war"

Damen Irving

Looking forward to the Turkification of the US

Gary Alexander

It's not whataboutism when you're doing self criticism. Whataboutism would be pro-war Russians talking about the Iraq War.

Dean

Real question: there seems to be a full accounting for what shouldn’t be done and what mistakes have been made in the past, so what should be done now on an international level to stop Putin from what he is doing in Ukraine?

erik morton

What a whinny, fuckwit episode.

Wet Willy

this is my favorite kind of chapo episode. just the boys getting pissed off about the same things that piss me off

John S

What's with the small dog bigotry? More small dogs are awesome like Boris than whatever Felix is sniffing about.

Vincent Utah

Idahoan: “You boys talk fast. Y’all aren’t from California, are ya?” Matt: *stares at floor* Felix: “I mean technically one of us is from Calif…” Will: “We’re from New York.” Idahoan: “Oh… well same bullshit.” *cocks gun*

Rusty

I'm here to shill for Big Bloodhound's Fang

Dean

Yeah, they covered all of that in the episode. “Nothing” is an answer, but it seems like a poor option in the face of Putin’s imperialism, but it is an answer. Letting other countries step in to do whatever suits their interest is valid, but the horse has left the barn on the idea that blowback won’t affect us regardless of whatever our actions or inactions

George Lochinski

Or at least until a bunch of you read a single book

Karl Childers

no small dogs are an affront to god and they themselves know they should not exist

Vincent Utah

Gotta disagree with Matt on the right wing support for Putin. The apologetics and borderline stanning of him is fairly apparent and depressing at this point. Lots of people tuning into Bannon and thinking Putin is sticking it to their culture war Satan that is wokeism. But I’m also in a red state with a population slightly over 3 million, so who’s to say if my perspective is limited by that or not.

will field

Here's a genuine question that I have yet to hear a rational response to. We can argue about how the conditions were created all we want, but now that the die have been cast and Ukraine is filled with weapons and willingly militant population ready to use them, how can we ,in any good conscious, turn away and just go "not my problem"? Just because we fundamentally disagree with the world order as it is currently constructed, I find the idea of us withdrawing to be absolute lunacy. Even if we didn't rob Afghanistan blind upon exit, are you seriously going to argue that things would be fine after we left and that we have no moral responsibility to the millions of lives we wrecked there? I agree with what Zizek said recently about the situation. "It’s not enough to “defend Europe.” The true task is to persuade other countries that the West can offer them better choices than Russia or China can. And the only way to achieve that is to change ourselves by ruthlessly uprooting neo-colonialism, even when it comes packaged as humanitarian help. Are we ready to prove that in defending Europe, we are fighting for freedom everywhere? Our disgraceful refusal to treat refugees equally sends the world a very different message."

justdave

Can't parry, but as soon as some Korean kid figures my move set I switch em up, and they don't see it coming cus it's the same sword

justdave

Addendum; I'm thinking of getting the regular cestus into the roster for parrying

Mark Schneider

Another possible outcome is regional warlords, as happened directly in Libya, and the US plays them off against each other to make sure the dysfunctional hellhole can be stripped of resources at the cheapest price.

Mark Schneider

Not talking, barking & howling for bloooooood, the blood of the "subhumans" we always "save" by installing right wing autocrats to loot, pillage and kill the local populace or make 'em work as slave labor as the best pragmatic outcome.

Mark Schneider

Where are the 'Muricans protesting the Saudi slaughter in Yemen? MSM told them nothing to see here, stay home, & they did as instructed.

Neil Harris

Good show guys, I think you're pretty well spot on here. But seriously you guys need to get over this Kennedy butt kissing. He was a bad president, and a bad person. He was a hawk, and he never had any intention of ending the Vietnam War. Oliver Stone is full of shit.

sir peepus

ooooooo elden ring…

William

Your question does not matter because WE have no say in shaping foreign policy. It's been designed that way, so having any opinion is mostly just mental masturbation

Julie Baxter

Probably, but he got (how shall we say) woke during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Dean

Saying the US doing nothing throughout the 20th century would have yielded better results leaves a pretty big glaring spot right around 1940-something. We can’t change the past and yes, so much of the shit we deal with today is a result of mistakes the US made; what I’m asking is what can the US or its allies do NOW to stop what is happening in Ukraine. If the answer is “nothing. They’re fucked and we fucked them by… telling Putin to invade them” then that’s your answer. Just going on and on about how the US is the only evil actor in the world and the only bad things that exist in this world are exclusively from Amerikkka is boring and in no way answers the question I asked

etienne

they ... they were talking about Nixon going to China ... what are you talking about

Michael

Right off the bat Shadi Hamid's piece starts off with a ridiculous statement implying the United States and "the West" currently don't have power. The fact that Russia has in just over a week has become completely isolated from the world economy should show how ridiculous that is.

icarus

Alright I need Felix to address the Pentagon’s claim that Russia is asking hezbollah to fight in Ukraine lol

Null_null

The answer is clearly not "nothing." The US is currently using a combo of sanctions against Russia and military/humanitarian aid to support Ukraine's resistance to Russia's invasion. While I didn't think the military aid was something we should've been doing before the invasion (which we were--and funding/supporting Nazi militias!), I think now it probably makes sense insofar as there's popular support within Ukraine for defending its democracy/borders. The idea is that we gain more bargaining power for Ukraine and hopefully get them out of this debacle with their democracy intact. // What we could've done before the invasion is certainly worth discussing, because it's something the US still won't part with and must. That is the idea that Ukraine can some day become a member of NATO. // Also, lol your "1940-something" comment. You must be a student of history, huh? Fuck off.

Dean

Thank you for a solid answer. The WW2 comment is fair. Yes, the USSR carried a tremendous amount of the burden and fairly objectively were the key to stopping the Nazis, but what would Europe or the rest of the world looked like if the US didn’t get involved like many in the US proposed at the time? We’ve completely fucked up pretty much every single foreign military intervention we’ve attempted; isn’t WW2 like the only inarguable one we were on the right side of? There’s the reason it is the go to reference of the US being “a force for good” despite so much evidence of it being the opposite of that during the rest of its two centuries

Jimmy McMillan

This was a good episode. I think Putin is a bad man. I think he's a very bad man. But if we can't hold our own war criminals responsible what FUCKING influence are we suppose to have over a foreign leader

Jimmy McMillan

I'll Embrace what about ism. Putin is bad but what about the psychopath politicians who we're supposed to have influence over in America? Let's please stop supporting genocide, gain the moral high grown, and then show these authoritarian pieces of s*** what's up

etienne

erik moron

Ahmed Razick

As a Warhammer fantasy fan. Real men use halberds and great swords.

Juan Suarez

"how can we ,in any good conscious, turn away and just go "not my problem?" very carefully

Simon

they exist, but we don't see them because they're not in our bubble. libs see them because anything which can paint the left in a bad light is retweeted into their lib bubbles similar to how anytime any lib does or says anything stupid or unconscionable it is retweeted into our bubble so yeah, those dorks exist, but we bear no responsilibty for them

Simon

ideally their should be more than 1 tier with no difference in content

birdo

hell yeah FEAR

grimbo

@Mary Green, next you're gonna tell us about the good Wehrmacht.

Doug Cartel

20 years from now Nuland and her drones will be bragging like Brzezinski about dragging Russia into "Afghanistan 2"

Marit

Cant make the Dallas show - I have two tickets (third row), selling them for face price ($50). shravakan at gmail dot com

Dean

So how long should we wait after changing our national liver to be able to engage in diplomacy again? A decade? A century? With all the world’s issues being a direct result of the US’ actions over the past century and not at all tied to all of the colonial powers from the century before that (probably including whatever country you currently reside in), we should probably just sit out the next millennia until we get to the same memory holed state that somehow exists for any other country that was a complete cunt to its people, its neighbors, native people, people of Africa, or people of the Middle East. I’m absolutely onboard with not going to war, selling arms, or generally thinking the way out of the war in Ukraine is with more violence; my question related directly to the assessment by Chapo and many in this thread that sanctions and military options mostly just hurt the civilian population and never make things better so I was legitimately wondering what other options were they suggesting would work and wouldn’t fuck over the civilian populations. It’s wild because my OP didn’t even say Amerikkka should be the one doing it but that’s the only country you could talk about doing anything

AKorgar

Except libs are always saying stupid or unconscionable things its basically their bag

EUGENE HETZEL

I personally love you. Especially those who went to ad hominem and cursing first. You are my favorite baby boys. So cute. Now run and play.

EUGENE HETZEL

Seriously, Reddit is right there with that groupnonthink.

David Cox

I notice Chomsky's views on euro events of late have been played down a fair bit - most likely dismissed as 'whataboutism' by the libs in the middle - he is as usual aghast at the hypocrisy on display

Rxk Lenderman

Small dogs are glorified rats and you know it

etienne

funny thing is that Noam Chomsky's lignustics work is completely discredited and useless. and he stole the basic tenet of his media criticism work from another guy. and he loves the khmer rouge. really not a whole lot chomsky said and did that is really salvageable in tyool 2022

CD

This was painful to listen to.

Declan Kennedy

The best possible outcome in Ukraine at this point is probably that we don't keep sending guns and cash and reopen serious diplomatic channels, which will ultimately result in Russia getting most of what they wanted in the first place. No matter what you think of Russia, not a fan of the modern flavour personally but it takes different strokes, the reality is that we should have done that first because the alternative was a lot of Ukrainians dying for no reason. That said, I think the most likely outcome is we keep sending guns and cash which get funnelled to militias and even more Ukrainians die for no reason.

Gengeros

Revolutionary defeatism see Lenin.

Simon

yeah, but because of those idiots giving russia the moral highground (and other bad opinions), they think that's our bag too, even the 'good' self-identifying libs who are basically left wing at heart, who reject the more obviously ghoulish lib takes, who think sinema and manchin aren't real dems, but who nevertheless have bought the more subtle liberal PR hook, line and sinker, and don't realise liberalism is opposed to left wing policies they are in favour of we see ghoulish lib takes and think all libs agree they see ghoulish left takes and think all of the left agrees dyed-in-the-wool libs use the ghoulish left takes to convince left-sympthetic libs to reject the entirety of the left

TheSingleE

my sister did actually study linguistics in college and i got an earful of chomsky back before like 2015 and actually did think it was pretty interesting stuff so i'm interested in some elaboration on that

Null_null

There's no president that exists within the realm of America's political imagination who would do what is right and just here (not even Bernie). That's just the facts.

Null_null

I think America shouldn't have been sending weapons and aid to militias prior to the invasion, but now that you have a full on resistance (one that isn't a color revolution, btw) it'd be hard to argue that the US government shouldn't support a sovereign country begging for our help. This creates a number of contradictions in how we run our FP, and most of them reveal its inherent white supremacy, but mostly it makes more sense to defend Ukraine for geopolitical reasons.

Null_null

Once again, the US should've negotiated a deal before Russia invaded--especially since elites were so sure they would invade! But now that Russia has invaded on a scale we never expected, the only way the US has any diplomatic bargaining power is if Ukraine can keep resisting Russia and wear it down militarily and economically. That's the reality here. You can't say "The US should give Putin everything he wants right now" if he can possibly just go and take it. Especially since Zelensky needs to be talked off a ledge here. He's currently asking for a no-fly zone.

Alejandro Pepsi

Just booked a trip to NOLA to see the boys and mystery guests, trueanon?

ADIFT

A dex int and bleed build?! Felix was the only member of the pod i still respected. But now i don't know.

etienne

I went overboard for the sake of landing a sick online dunk but here's what I heard: Noam Chomsky's Universal Grammar thesis proposes that all human language share a fundamental structure and that all spoken and written languages are just sets of rules built out of some fundamental toolkit of language features. That's very useful for computers because then we can build super strict programming and data languages and parsers but for IRL human linguistics it's been discredited and there's an alternative view that I can't explain because I don't know shit but basically that stuff is fuzzy and you can't make broad generalizations that apply to all languages. Also I read a while ago a big thing about his attitude towards the Khmer Rouge which again exaggerated the actual level of Chomsky's support for that specific era of Cambodian politics (which btw was a CIA front) that contained a line that went something along the lines of "Noam Chomsky never agreed with any socialist polity that existed in the real world until he encountered Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge" which is a thermonuclear radiation burn imo And Manufacturing Consent has the same concept as Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti which casts doubt as to why Chomsky gets most of the credit for that bit of media criticism. I think that covers it. Once again this is not a thought-out criticism of Chomsky just a glorified online dunk

etienne

everybody on both the russian side and the "west" or at least the poli leadership and media figures are all completely out for fucking blood and they won't back down one inch, and everyone who so much as suggests otherwise is gonna get backstabbed and crucified. NATO hashing out a deal that Russia would buy that includes both the Republics and Crimea would be like the Afghanistan pullout times one thousand. At this point the best we can probably hope is that Biden sacrifices his mainstream credibility *once again* to get us a last offramp deal before decades of ukrainian civil war or worse, a great powers confrontation It's grim as fuck.

EUGENE HETZEL

I love them, but they sure are nihilistic. Circular. Oy vey.

etienne

man i accidentally went on the daily beast web site and heard about a thing called the "durham report" that alleges that the Clinton campaign spied on Trump 2016 and is supposedly a big deal in conservative circles and i had a huge flashback of the like blueanon russiagate era. Those were the times man. Some people are out there believing that the ukraine war is a distraction from an american political impropriety affair from twenty six teen

justdave

All I'll say is, he's no parenti

Eliot O'Callaghan

I know I’m commenting late but does anyone know what song they play around 38-39. “Let’s have a war- blame the middle class”

Jack Theakston

It’s Mickey Rooney who famously portrayed the Asian stereotype, not Andy Rooney (although the latter is also contextually amusing.)

TangiePower

Too many people have super hero movie brain where they think it’s as simple as “with great power comes great responsibility, if something bad happening we have to get involved.” But it is fucked up imperial hubris to assume your intervention will, or could possibly, make things better. It’s arrogance. Our evil leaders know better, but too many regular people have drank deeply from this imperial American savior fever dream. Folks gotta wake up.

Jon Lyons

Yeah like it's a pretty straightforward and appealing moral argument in general, but there's a huge qualitative difference between like stepping in when you see somebody's getting bullied and oh I dunno *a war* You get all kinds of insanity if you start to think of nations or systems or whatever in the same terms as people but just scaled way up.

Erik

What’s with the Chomsky slander? Chomsky didn’t steal from Parenti. Inventing reality by Parenti even cites Chomsky and Herman’s work from 1979, The Political Economy of Human Rights, which covers similar ground about how the media frames events and why. It’s a topic with many practitioners and theorists especially Edward Herman. Herman and Chomsky have a particular propaganda model that is similar but different from Parenti’s theory of communication in capitalist society.

etienne

thank you for bringing some much needed nuance to my post that i told you is a unresearched online dunk attempt

bruce

Who is nihilistic? Them, or the liberal hawks braying for the first step to nuclear war??

bruce

The funny thing lib hawks do is assume that America has absolute military projection power anywhere on earth while in the same breath saying that you can't just make all geopolitics centered on America's blameworthiness

William

Looks like you're too retarded to figure out I wasn't talking about the chapos, but feel free to keep 'dunking' on week old comments