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773 - Israeli Self Harm Force (10/16/23) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-17 03:45:41
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Will & Felix continue last week’s discussion on Gaza & Palestine with further thoughts on the brutality of the unfolding conflict, reactions and narratives pushed through the American media, shifts in public opinion, and the unstable positions of Israel & America.

Here are a few Palestinian aid organizations worth your support:

https://www.pcrf.net/

https://www.anera.org/

https://www.map.org.uk/

Files

Comments

T

It's post maxi

Chris

I feel like the govt would have rolled with Palestine and Hamas being the same thing in people's minds, internet made that tough.

Cole

If grossing in hhyswixw

Laurel

I logged on simply to look at cute pets in the chapo chat for the dopamine, and found a brand new episode! Thanks, fellas.

Raoul Duke

Rest in power 6yo Wadea Al-Fayoume, murdered by a Zionist landlord… everyone in Chicagoland should come out to the vigil , 8pm Tuesday @the Plainfield Prairie Rec center on Renwick Road

Erik Bourre

hellz yeeah. thanks fellas

Zach Pierce

Thank you Trump, Sir, and Jared Kushner for signing the Honda Accords that brought peace to the region.

Natalie

i'll put a pic in there for you

Siddhartha

Grabbing a cup of hot hhyswixw as I listen

Tristan Clark

I'll be angry for Matt til he can be angry for us again ❤️

Greg

Great show, very Post Maxi

Zach H.

Any government dropping white phosphorus on civilians who can’t escape can’t plead self defense

Bradley Rosson

This is Dresden, Cambodia, Hiroshima & Nagasaki. This is the Trail of Tears. This is another holocaust. Israel is become Nazi.

Shiv

back in the hhyswixw groove

Migz

Is there a discord or something? I have rabbits I could post

Seraph

“America can certainly afford two wars” -Janet Yellen

Zach H.

It’s the abused becoming their abuser. That they can’t see the clear parallels between stateless Jews rounded into ghettos and death camps and the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank is baffling.

Felix

Patreon has a new group chat feature, the chapo one is just pets lol

christoph.s

In Europe (especially Germany Austria) the public discourse around this is insane. And the distribution in the political spectrum is different, the far right (bc of antisemitism) stay relatively silent or just like the conservative mask their hatred of Muslims and immigrants behind their „concern“ about Jewish safety. And the center and liberal up to the left want to wash away the Nazi past with Palestinian blood.

Dick Wolf

I can’t express how much I long for the inevitable “So… anything big happen while I was gone?” bit when Matt gets back.

Rusty

Going to a pro-Palestine demonstration on campus tomorrow, inb4 I get put on that Canary Mission list.

Andrew Cross

I want my podcasters to be paid more to make shorter episodes with worse audio, and I’m Not Kidding

Declan Kennedy

it feels wrong to express appreciation for what was an extremely bleak episode from start to finish, but thanks for putting into words the frustration so many of us have been feeling

Derek Nagy

I said it before and I'll say it again, the Nazis won WW2. Germany lost, and Nazis won.

T

What's the best charity? I'm using Canadian money on a credit card, if that matters.

Brion Baer

Really moving episode, love you all 💚

Tom Joad

But not healthcare. A bridge too far.

CJ

hhyswixw? I thought you’d never ask.

J.P. McD.

A tight 53 love it

J.P. McD.

There’s a lot to do in this world, almost all “content” would benefit from being shorter

R K

'if we didn't kill all those palestinian children, how would we know we didn't kill the next hitler?' - megan mcardle, probably

jay alan

Love you guys ❤️

Mr Tu Damn Quoque

The loss of US cache - Victoria Nuland was humiliated by the West African states when she did her whirlwind visit after the Niger coup. Muktipolarity is coming and the neocon ghouls feel it in their bones

Pelican Grief

It's deeply funny that Matt manufactured his own covfefe

Jackson Ehlert

Incredible episode gentleman. Love you guys best wishes to Matt

Gulb

Thank you so much. I had a conversation with a friend tonight who just repeated Israeli propaganda and it was such a bleak feeling hearing someone I care about justifying genocide.

Methew

Thanks for providing the donation links. I have been glued for every possible moment I have since the 7th, but haven’t even thought to find places to donate yet. I made the donation out in the honor of Captain John Brown

Methew

When u say “wouldn’t their otherwise submission be justification for their ongoing dispossession” Frederick Douglass in a eulogy to John brown I was reading earlier said in the south that the whites came to justify African Americans natural state of enslavement by submission to it and something along the lines of “the fact that the chains fit their wrists confirmed that their wrists were just to wear them”

Brian Rad

Shoutout to HamasAbi

fredbaroque

Think how different the headlines would be, had Milla Jovovich been born in Gaza and not in Kiev.

Juniper Kur

the middle eastern security apparatus, and by extension all of american politics, rests upon the assumption that palestinians have no agency. turns out they do.

christoph.s

In my hopeful moments I dream about a child in Gaza, now, in 65 years telling their grandchildren about the war and occupation. Just like my grandma did about WWII (she was 10 in 1939) and them listen attentively but the suffering being as unfamiliar to them as it was for me.

Methew

The one Palestinian kid who was murdered on the global day of jihad, RIP, but wow talk about the most silent possible auditorium for the loudest possible lone cough

Methew

Lone cough that perfectly reinforces the awkward unspoken truth about the spectacle in view

jack flowers

it only loads when they decide to sell something, which isn't often alas.

Nick Rachielles

Will and Felix, if even one of my friends was as dedicated as you both are to matt, id consider myself the luckiest man alive. In solidarity friends

Franklin Shepard Inc.

The only time I ever sat through a whole Bill Maher TV show was when they would have George Carlin on. The episode where he said that was like, the one good episode.

Dick Wolf

going to starbucks and asking for a covfefe hhyswixw please. post maxi.

Ellen Anderson

Thank you for this post. I am disgusted and horrified. Will do what I can to

Eon Gattignolo

when i started giving $5 a month my thought was "these dudes make me laugh hard at least once a show, I will buy them one bottle of beer or one fried egg sandwich a month. seems fair."

Eon Gattignolo

wait there's more. at some point during some terrible news push I remember thinking that supporting chapo, true anon, and citations needed (the official podacast of the chapo subreddit btw) is the best money I ever spent on *entertainment media* and shit is probably only going to get weirder going forward and I am so glad this podcast isn't on the spotify network or some other such bullshit. to be absolute corny and earnest here. I trust these people's hearts and I trust their work. It's a miracle, a glitch in the system that these people can prioritize health and work over survival in a workplace. i mean look, these mf'ers are operating solidly in the upper middle class income bracket. tradition dictates that they start delegating and learn to golf and get on doctor pills. These guys are writing extra history podcasts and whole extra series on art and shit, which would be extra anyway, but between the jokes and the yucks they are honoring some real important codes. they are not peddling us bullshit. they are platforming people the mainstream news industry is trying desperately to crop. tldr sincere thanks and salute

William

Still too good of treatment for that bitch

William

It is darkly hilarious, if you imagine my laughter sounding like someone who’s last screw has come loose

Alex

Hasan is a real one and I hope you guys have him back on the show again soon!!

——

Who knows what Happened to Matt

Drew McGill

Shame on any lib in here giving Chapo shit for shitting on Biden.

William

I absolutely cannot stand how Israel is dark Vadering the Palestinians right now. They’re acting like a bunch of voldemorts and no one’s stopping them!!!

William

I think the refusal to name Iran is an admission that Israel would definitely try to go to war with Iran at this moment if they could, and it would probably end in nuclear war once it goes south

BryceSprungstein

If there's one thing the 'terminally online' thing can do, its make Yasmin Porat's name as prominent as possible and push for calm pending an investigation. At the very least it might create some time and space for cooler heads to prevail

Doug Cartel

anybody saying that a ceasefire is "disgraceful" should be forced at gunpoint to charge into gaza as the first wave

William

Israel is doing the thandus snap to palestine and no. one. is. stopping. them.

William

Hospital

——

A hospital fell on him, got it

Doug Cartel

well when you put it that way, I guess it's fine to just slaughter everybody in Gaza, gay or straight

kitty pavlova

you losers always want to remind us that our rights exist due to glorious liberal benevolence so we can be used as a cudgel against violent savages. if you want to support gay palestinians stop them from being blown apart by israeli bombs first, then we can worry about instilling Good Liberal Values in them, but I'm sure there will be some pause since the people espousing these values have been murdering their children for most of their lifetimes.

SF

Shut the fuck up.

——

I have no interest in instilling liberal values there, I think they should have their own state and do whatever they want. I think Israel is an apartheid state. I think they should stop clutching their pearls while simultaneously killing more children than Hamas ever has. Also, I think it’s weird to be so dismissive of pointing out the irony of blue haired septum pierced queers, being so supportive of Hamas.

T

Thanks, I donated to that one

——

I obviously wasn’t saying that. Everybody on here is such a baby

Virginia Manning

Thanks Will and Felix for sharing the donation links, particularly the British MAP link. Without hesitation I have donated on your recommendation and shared this with my fellow UK friends and family

——

I wasn’t excusing anything Israel is doing. I’m also not even really condemning the Muslims for feeling that way, at least in the context of this point, I’m mostly saying how weird it is to be so flippant in dismissing that fact, especially the way they do it here saying oh if you really cared about gay people you would have been more mad when western democracies have treaties with Muslim countries. Although he is right when he says most of the people making this argument don’t actually care about gay people.

Doug Cartel

Fox News hasn't been this happy in 20 years. Vilifying muslims was their bread and butter for so long and watching them return to form like this is so fucking vile

Andrew Mueller

I feel like it's different this time though. In 2001-2003 there was a critical mass of Americans that supported invading anything in the middle east that just isn't there anymore.

Tyson

Chapo assumed I’m white /:

kitty pavlova

“blue haired septum pierced queers” yeah you weird pussy you don’t give a shit about us besides some weird Erm But What About point scoring bullshit. it’s a hack lurid fantasy you felt necessary to bring up because you’re retarded liberal brain cannot resist being a mealy mouthed both sides annoyance that HAS to have a “nuanced” take

kitty pavlova

more trans women have been murdered in my city in a year than hamas has killed since it existed. i’ve had to pull a knife several times to defend myself in my glorious liberalized tolerant state that has banned my healthcare for the last year. fuck off

Evan Scott

"Blue haired septum pierced queers" just say the word. It's clearly on the tip of your tongue

Natalie

that's a fat generalization my guy, plus israel and the US aren't gay friendly countries. a lot of queer people are smart enough to realize that fighting a giant colonial enemy is more important than their social politics. this isn't some january 6th hillbillies trying to coup america or some shit lol. do you think they're only fighting for straight Palestinians? do you have to get a scan or something to make sure you aren't gay

MissDizzie

The whole "You should support bombing Muslims, they want to kill LGBTQ people" always comes from people who cheer when they hear about a gay club getting shot up. It's proof that the right has no morals, just the need to score political points.

——

I think you should have healthcare I hate that youve been attacked and threatened you should get a gun to defend yourself more effectively than a knife and I also think that’s a claim that you have absolutely no idea if It’s true or not, knowing the numbers on that is impossible, and I doubt any trans people can be out in Palestine at all. I’m not a liberal I support s free Palestine and I stand by my original point.

Tyson

Literally not white so you’re the cracker bitch

Jessica S

Re: babies beheaded - was it World War I where they trotted out the enemy carrying spikes crowned with baby heads? J can’t remember who was the accused…does that ring a bell with anyone? At any rate, this trope’s - that is the inflation of numbers and method in which the youngest are killed - usefulness never fails to dupe generation after generation, which the exception that it is super charged by technological advance.

C. Andrew

All I hope for Matt (and anyone, really) is that he's riding his beam and not letting this absolute nightmare get to him. I get you guys are closer to the button and it's your literal job to comment on it, but the good news is I've marched with thousands of others who already are on the same page, we don't need entertainment or takes for this, the situation is crystal clear. Israel is commiting genocide and Palestine must be free. It's a strange mixture of despair and hope simultaneously, watching Israel grow desperately violent and watch them trip over themselves. We know the truth, we don't believe the horseshit, and it makes it feel less alienating or alone when you see the doom and gloom. Now, we can't stop the bombs from falling, and that hurts to acknowledge but IMO that's where you all come in and why I enjoy this program so much. Keep on keeping on, Mr. Chapo.

C. Andrew

PS. I am gay. You are gay. We are gay.

Jaime Christley

Two things keeping me from completely going off the rails this past week or so: 1) (largely thanks to Ghost Stories) trying to look out for what larger forces are going to take advantage of the present chaos and move into potential vacuums (of power, real estate, revenue streams etc). Things that may not be clear for years, even decades, if ever, but it's something to keep somewhat steady on. 2) just latching on right away to the ridiculous notion that the very intelligence apparatus that failed - or, y'know, "didn't fail" - on October 7 expects us to believe breathless reporting of baby heads on spikes? it ain't much but it's what I got....

Cesar C

Don’t ever assume I’m white again pal

Jake

my own American relatives don't accept my homosexuality. Should we have the IDF start bombing cities in the Midwest?

NYCM&AHole

They shut down the Afghanistan connection which is why it’s hard to get supply

Natalie

great episode guys, i appreciated all of your comments. i totally forgot about the calorie restrictions thing, and i never thought about the point that a near majority of the people in Palestine weren't even old enough to vote in the last election .

Ken Lavey

Big ups to Hasan and his audience, over $750,000 raised for Palestinians

Justin

every time I see that big, sexy turk I think: "his leftism is just for clout. he's too hot to be one of us" and then he goes ahead and does something 100x more useful than anything ive ever done

Justin

unfortunately, I think Matt's doctors are stressing the need to be a little less angry in the future

Axel H.

If you stand by your original point then you’re a fucking retard, as your “point” is inconsequential and has nothing to do with whether or not supporting Palestine is moral. I get that lib brain is obsessed with the smug satisfaction they get from “pointing out hypocrisy”, but there is no hypocrisy when it comes to supporting the oppressed, colonized populations of the world. Nonetheless, “huh isn’t it weird that these gays support Muslims” is only ever something I’ve heard smirking, straight conservatives who don’t give a shit about LGBT people (or Muslims) say to score "gotcha" points, so shut the fuck up.

Scott

I didn't.

T

My personal friend Will Menaker was talking to ME. Stop eavesdropping on our conversations.

Oliver Elliott

Shameless hypocrisy is, and always has been, America’s superpower.

K U

I say this with no malice and full love for you guys, but yes, Matt's absence is so deeply felt in cases like this. He just has a way of understanding and articulating empire and its results that felt true and funny and trenchant. I wish for his good health every day. And more importantly, I hope for the safety of Palestinian citizens who are facing a complete slaughter.

E. GONZO

Does anyone know what that last bit will was talking about is in Chicago?

Evan Scott

you don't actually have a point. what makes it 'worth pointing out' beside a vindictiveness toward gay people or Palestinians or both

Dark Belden

I believe he has a case of none of your fucking business.

——

Jake prolly not, wait which ones?

Evan Scott

the only context where it's "worth pointing out" is noting that in this very reductionist black-and-white conception of 'muslim hate gay', solidarity among queer people with palestinians becomes more selfless

——

Axel if y’all can’t handle hearing these things you’re just being a fucking baby.

Axel H.

There's no logical short-circuit going on with me. I'm gay and support Palestine and have no qualms about it. You're the one who "can't handle" that.

David S.

Great ep despite Matt's absence. Maybe try and get Finkelstein on the show soon?

Dark Belden

“Seems we got some bigoted folks in Iowa. Gonna have to level Des Moines so they don’t act up again.”

Pædiekeix

Hasan for caliph 2024

Mark Schneider

Norm is booked pretty solid on Katie Halper & many other sites!! Still, might be good to hear him here too if he has time.

Nico

THIS is the real reason Israel is bombing hospitals. And I, for one, support them.

Mark Schneider

It's Meggerz McArgleBargle, if you please!!

Tyler Mastalerz

Can we talk about the courage from Gustavo Petro and the Colombian government? Real leadership

——

Axel I didn’t say you had a logical shirt circuit. I said you’re being a baby.

plainwrap

I'm reminded of David Roth's piece about 'Starship Troopers' and how fascism ultimately makes countries weak and incapable. The only reason Hamas succeeded in their attack from Gaza was because the IDF was concentrated in the West Bank pulling security for their racist hillbilly settlers. It's like Rwanda, Israel was too busy doing the ethnic cleansing to even fight the armed enemy. And now they're begging the U.S. for boots on the ground.

SF

They also may have some views about women that we in general don’t agree with and may even abhor. I’m not sure “they wouldn’t stand up for you, so, ya know, make sure that’s not ignored in the case of whether or not we should feel a way about their slaughter” is the helpful take here.

E. GONZO

Thanks for the link. I don’t know what I expected but that is fucking horrible.

C. Andrew

"If you listen to Chapo, you're white." is the leftist inversion of Biden's "If you don't vote for Biden, you ain't black."

——

Evan Scott, thanks that’s a very good point and response and not just a super online “fuck you” to someone who brings up something you don’t like.

Tyson

I mean yeah I really didn’t think it was a big deal but I find it odd that the perception is that to be a leftist listening to leftist podcasts you’re most likely white lol

H k

Hasans bit on the h3 podcast was super powerful too, there’s a reason why he gets the support he does.

Mark Schneider

Richard Medhurst showed a clip of phalanxes of German cops violently attacking & beating pro-Palestine demonstrators and France is doing the same thing . . . the Reich (& the Vichy regime) never really died, it's still there, but now Jews are considered "White" again, evidently-- oops, apart from the ones who are demonstrating on Palestine's behalf, those are untermenschen like the "Asiatic" Russians!!

Emily Richardson

Will captured my feelings about not being able to hear Matt’s point of view during all of this perfectly: matt’s perspective on things always puts into words the nuanced feelings and thoughts in my head and it fucking sucks he’s not here during this especially crazy time. But don’t feel obligated or feel bad about not being able to share more about Matt’s medical status or recovery with us. Like you said, no news is good news. That’s more than enough. Can’t wait to hear him on here again someday.

Kirstwb

Love you guys! Praying for the christmans♥️

Evan Scott

it's not something 'i don't like' it's something you have clearly never given more than 3 seconds of thought to the most reactionary, reductive take on because you imagine edgy, borderline reactionary bullshit with a veneer of plausible deniability will allow you to score a skinny girl with bpd and a tennis skirt instead of just revolting everyone around you

T

My advice to everyone here: Don't let Israel/Palestine ruin your relationships with ordinary people who have no influence. Most ordinary people who support Israel have been tricked by an expensive and successful propaganda campaign. They've been tricked because they're stupider than you (at least in this way), and not because they're evil. Based on the lies they're spoonfed from every politician, media figure, and social media bot they encounter, they really do think that they're on the side that's preventing another Holocaust. Don't break off relationships with these people. They'll maybe break off relationships with you, but reach out to them again once this has died down in the news. They'll probably have calmed down, forgotten about it, or switched sides. They'll probably feel embarrassed about how they treated you and will think you hate them for it, so you need to be the one to reach out. As Matt says, our only hope is human relationships and faith in each other. Don't fall for the "cut out toxic people in your life" meme. Neoliberalism, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. want to turn you into an atomized Pringle, so resist the urge to cut people out, and make an effort to repair relationships that were broken through no fault of your own. Save your anger for politicians, journalist, and the people who bought them. They do have influence, they do know better, and they are purposely supporting genocide.

Schwartz666

Cheers! Very well said, sir.

Axel H.

If I tried to break off relationships with everyone who didn't share my politics, I'd have no friends or family. It's frustrating sometimes, especially when it involves such a concerted propaganda effort like this, but it's not worth ending relationships. Most people I know are at least willing to hear me out and are not calling me a "terrorist lover" or whatever for being pro-Palestine (and a number of my friends have come out in support of Palestine even if they regularly make sure to use the phrases "both sides" and "I condemn Hamas").

Gulb

It's not a valid point to make because it's not materially relevant and the only reason you're mentioning it is to imply something like "During this genocide, we need to keep in mind that maybe they deserve it a little."

triplevalaska

I usually agree with them, but they sound libtared, it's not fair argument concerning Israel/ Palestinian issue. Not saying their wrong, but all this it's never been more bleak in our live time is allittle much, shit happens all the time

Logan

I appreciate this episode. It made me feel, if not hopeful, at least a little less hopeless.

Brooks Finby

needed this today, thank you

Thomas Stevens

Just wanted to say for some perspective on the American view of this war, even the Pod Save guys are shocked at what Israel is doing right now. It was crazy to hear that from them but if they have that opinion then it is a lot more acceptable than it would have been 20 years ago.

Evan Scott

Yeah the Germans were accused of doing this as they marched through Belgium in 1914

Mark Schneider

I certainly have lost 3+ friends (incl. my weedhead brother) for not supporting "wonderful Ukraine" & their neo-Nazi antics . . . I did drop a former friend (& Masonic brother) who was supporting the "free speech rights" of the Charlottesville neo-Nazis 'cause the mean Libs hurt their fee-fees! & a former friend who was gleeful on Facebook when Kyle Rottenmouse got off free for killing 2 with a semi-automatic at a Kenosha, Wisconsin BLM march while cosplaying "EMT Rescue Boy". But general point taken.

Arthur G. Pym

Non-issue - the lads all want to liberate Palestine

Jaime Christley

not to say there's not racism everywhere, but there's something uniquely, freakishly European going on with the clean handoff of ethnostate mania from Nazi Germany to the Israeli occupation. remember also that Israel hands out citizenship to Aryan goyim like they're tossing out Mardis Gras beads, while when the first Ethiopian Jews came calling, Israel was like "*sucks teeth* yeah I dunno fam" and fucking sterilized the women.

Eric Brown

Thank you. This is great advice.

James Browning

BLUES HAMMER! Nice Ghost World reference Will!

T

Ate Zionism. Ate genocide. Luv me free Palestine. Luv me lads. Simple as.

T

Sad. Hopefully those people will be back to normal in a year.

Davis G

Bob Menendez needs to call in a favor to his Egyptian benefactors and get them to be more helpful evacuating civilians.

Ruby Lee

I was in the Army when the Iraq invasion started. I remember the overall feeling of disquiet, confusion, and uncertainly as to the legitimacy what we were seeing unfold. I remember the moment I realized exactly what we were heading towards when late one night, a friend in my unit drunkenly said, "this confirms that we really are mercenaries, not soldiers." He was right. There was no justification for it and we are all complicit in a massive war crime but if we refused to go do it they put us in prison. :(

Jackson

That episode image is so sobering man

Matt Conn

God we need Matt back ASAP

Dante

Have to say all the Chinese post are really sweet,

Brian

Alright. I’ll ask it: Does this just lead to a Trump win all the more?

Poppy Chulo

I think many people listen to this at work or running errands, so shorter eps aren't appealing at all.

Daniel Hepburn

It is possible to be critical of Israel without repeating Hamas propaganda. As per usual, as horrific as this whole situation is, Chapo' insane levels of catastrophization and demonization grossly distorts things.

Chris

Youa bitch

Eli

Thank you for reminding me that the world is not my Facebook timeline and my close family who support these crimes.

Chris

I was born during a gay genocide in the USA, my own brother told me he'd kill me if he ever found out that I was gay. So no, the so called liberalism of the west doesn't exactly fit on my morality scale.

Jaime Christley

is the Hamas propaganda in the room with us right now?

Johan Stefonski

How's this for demonizing: why do you hate muslim's so much?

Paul F. Holzfäller

Are settlers getting dropped by IDF friendly fire? That’s insane. We’re talking astronomical levels of FAFO.

Danny

just gonna offer this up bc no Matt but perhaps one of the lessons of the thirty years war and Spain is that a great power in terminal decline can still be more powerful than all the rising powers, and that even if it can no longer maintain its grip on the world, it can still lay waste to it

Wisselbanken

hey buddy, have you tried being less of a genocidal freak

Thomas Stevens

Unless it starts WW3 (which could happen.) this event will be completely forgotten by Americans before election time.

Christian Sarkis Graham

It’s good to hear your necessary and sobering reflection here, on an issue so much of the world has been distorting. So thank you for that. But Jesus, WHY have you joined the rest of the world in their radio silence to effectively the same thing inflicted on the Armenians of Artsakh, just WEEKS before this? So much of what you are decrying of Israel inflicting on Gaza has been *flaunted* by Azerbaijan on Artsakh. 120,000 civilians blockaded and starved for 9 months. Then bombed and forced into exile from their homeland of 3000 years in days, when the world barely even watched. No attacks triggered this, just civilians living in peace. Aliyev is now dancing on the Artsakh flag and expressing intention to invade Armenia proper. And we don’t even SANCTION his petro -dictatorship. They want to erase Armenians and create a pan-Turkic state with Erdogan, while you still affectionately refer to your subscribers as “Grey Wolves” Armenia is a peaceful liberal democracy in a sea of religious dictators. They are begging for the West’s help and we are all allowing them to teeter on the edge of destruction, if not oblivion with our apathy. It’s painful to listen to the boldness and bravery required to take the stance in an episode like this, and complete disregard of the same ethnic cleansing just a neighboring region away. A moral failure of US foreign policy is expected at this point. The same moral failure of Chapo is so much more disappointing.

Jdav

Suck bibis whole philly dick from the back

Dang

Wasn't the decapitated babies story confirmed? Horrible detail but from what I understand it was confirmed and verified

m@tt

He could just call up his daughter.

A

Perhaps another Chapo Dark Souls Stream to benefit Palestinians is in order?

Alexander Johnson

If anyone has to 'debate' skeptical or ornery relatives (as I have) about American/Israeli hostages held by Hamas, be sure to educate them about Rachel Corrie. She put words into action by protesting the destruction of Palestinian homes in Gaza and paid for it with her life. The IDF intentionally murdered her for her activism and the Israeli courts refused to hear the cases brought by her parents. She's a real hero and I wish I was tough enough to emulate her.

Christina

Continuing to pray for Matt, Amber and baby girl. thanks for the links to donate and thanks for the reminder that hope is better than despair 🤍🇵🇸

Major bit me

Well the artsakh government had ethnically cleansed Azeris in the borderlands around Nagorno-Karabakh during the 90s. You go on google maps for yourself and see abandoned village after village after town of collapsed roofs and overgrown towns that had been destroyed. What is now happening to the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh is sick and depraved but Armenia sure is hell not a “liberal democratic country” because they did the EXACT same thing in the 90s. These countries are essentially two gangs of oligarchs fighting post-Soviet border wars and making their own people pay for it, substantively different than the Palestinian situation.

Major bit me

This is why Azerbaijan had the world’s the highest refugee-to-population ratio for much of the 90s

Christian Sarkis Graham

Artsakh only fell nominally within Azeri borders because Stalin drew them that way in the ‘20s, but nice try. But while we’re at it, I guess this means you’re game for justifying why Aliyev is claiming Yerevan as “Western Azerbaijan” and currently practicing military exercises with Turkey as we speak? Try taking the genocidal apologist rhetoric on a non-overtly Leftist page.

Christina

That anchor lady (I think from cnn) walked back her claim about the decapitations as did the president’s team, clarifying no one actually saw these photos as Biden had claimed. Then the IDF came out and said they weren’t going to confirm it—one thing I saw said “out of respect for the dead.” Like will and Felix said in the ep, it’s likely that some babies were killed given how many people have died so far, but the hyper grotesque claim about “40 decapitated babies” seems to be false given how many have walked back / retracted the statement along with IDF saying they wouldn’t verify it. But definitely google and look into everything I’ve said to form your own conclusion cause I’m by no means an expert and am probably not totally accurate. It’s hard to parse through all the news stories and tweets flooding in every second of every day, but from a common sense angle, it doesn’t seem likely in such an event that fighters with guns would take the time to stop and chop heads off babies just to be cartoonishly evil, whereas the manufacturing consent media machine does seem likely to exaggerate to whip people into a pro war frenzy. And from another common sense angle, if there were photos of decapitated babies my guess is the IDF and western media would’ve shared them, despite how horrifying photos like that would be.

Christian Sarkis Graham

Any grasp for claim of a “post-Soviet oligarch” in Armenia flies out the window with the Velvet Revolution that it sounds like you know nothing about or are willfully ignoring. This country has been trying like hell to pivot to every modern liberal democracy of the West and has been abandoned by every single one of them. Name one unsolicited act of aggression on behalf of Armenians in the past 5 years, and compare that to the actions of the Azeri dictatorship (in large part on Israel’s dime, no less). The only reason I am bothering responding to a shill of Aliyev’s propaganda is so nobody reading this gets the wrong idea of what’s happening, since nobody is reporting on this.

Major bit me

It’s not a “nice try” it’s just a fact, the Armenian/Artsakh state ethnically cleansed between 500,000 and 750,000 Azeris in the 90s, none of whom were settler-colonists like the situation in Palestine. I’m not justifying Azerbaijan because they would have done the same thing in the 90s if they had won instead of the Armenians, and Azerbaijan is successfully doing the same thing now. A better comparison between Azerbaijan-Armenia’s bourgeois border wars would be with Russia-Ukraine. Armenia and Azerbaijan are both oligarch dictatorships ruled by people with far more in common with each other than their respective subjects, they just duke it out over the border using their own people as pawns. People who lived in the same country just 35 years ago.

Major bit me

The “velvet revolution” happened decades after the war in the 90s, did not alter the economic structure of armenia in any significant way (leaving the post-Soviet oligarch class ruling and intact for the most part). Besides, liberal “democracy” = oligarch dictatorship just with a revolving door of puppets, “pivoting to the west” is pivoting to the people waging genocide in Palestine it is not a sign of any commitment to “democracy” as leftists generally understand it. The velvet revolution also did not restore any land to the ethnic Azeris whom Armenia had cleansed decades before…

Christian Sarkis Graham

If you are saying any of this in good faith you have a lot of reading to do. What you are saying right now is critically, dangerously false and a lot of people are about to die over it. Armenia proper is facing an invasion in a matter of weeks.

Adam Cain

seriously, listen to that instead if anything. I stopped listening to this ep 15 min in. not enlightening and demonstrated a kind of glee for Palestinian suffering if only bc it provides the opportunity to be righteously indignant about Israel. greatly distorts the culpability of parties involved, grossly reduces the board to a "either with hamas or for Palestinian extermination" arrangement. I've never commented on a patreon post except maybe one time to call the tabletop episode gay or something back in 2018, but here we are.

Major bit me

I disagree with you and I say everything in good faith so do you have anything specific I should read? Because everything I’ve read so far about Armenia, Azerbaijan, and the war lead me here

K

I don't know if it necessarily helps Palestinians but I think there's no way the IDF could "win" an actual ground invasion. Sending armored columns into all those drones and ATGMS? They've already lost a couple on the border skirmishes with Hezbollah. I'm not sure they'd even have artillery superiority with all those Hamas rockets.

J P 3

Most Americans are completely oblivious regarding these issues. They care to the extent that foreign events impact domestic affairs (and even in those instances it might not be with respect to a direct association between "bad things are happening in X country", but more in terms of "gas prices are too high right now"). So the short answer is that I don't think it really helps or hurts Trump. I think the bigger issues that Biden has relate to his age and the current state of the domestic economy. e.g. things that are unlikely to get better between now and November 2024.

J P 3

Never confirmed. Biden repeated the statement, but his staff indicated that he was just reporting information he heard from the Israelis. The IDF said it wasn't going to provide any additional information. Last week Mondoweiss, was able to trace the rumor back to an Israeli settler/officer who first reported the claim to the Independent and i24. The settler/officer had made previous statements calling for the genocide of Palestinians, so not exactly the most credible single source. No other verification beyond his claim.

Jimmy McMillan

I denounce Hezbollah. Let's make them do an internal investigation into their attacks on Israel. Then if they're able to clear themselves of all wrongdoing, we give them a couple Trillion in military aid

Michael

We love you, Will and Felix!

J P 3

I'd wager that what has forced a rhetorical recalibration by the U.S. and the EU is almost certainly what they are hearing from Muslim-majority countries, especially ones with a close relationship with the U.S. and the EU. Popular opposition within the U.S. and the EU may eventually have some impact on the direction of foreign policy and foreign aid to Israel, but the short-term influence is likely happening at the level of states. The big issue in terms of the propagandistic coverage in the U.S. is that it means that the U.S. public is completely unprepared for anything but the best case scenario. e.g. a peaceful resolution to the conflict that doesn't result in any further refugee flows or loss of life (something that the Biden administration appears to have absolutely no interest or capacity to achieve).

Jaime Christley

yeah, sounds like Mr Chapo really fucked up by not including all of this. thanks guys. well done.

Jimmy McMillan

Good point stew. I just don't think bombs, starvation, and resource extraction is the best way to deal with gay bigotry. Are civil rights movement didn't have drones and it was better for it

Daffy

You can't tell by this point that Israel lies about everything?

Aaron Bennett

Hang in there, Matt!!! All love to Chapo. Wish I was one of your haters so I could give you the sustenance of my hatred that I know you so crave, but no...sorry guys...huge fan and long time patreon here so for whatever my pathetic love is worth XD.

em

and here you are, being gay

Daffy

"catastrophization" What are you? A rich cunt?

Daffy

From the reading: An infant child is a special thing. So special that it is a temporary and hard thing to find dozens of times. By statistical probability, most baby atrocities are complete bullshit. The very reason the last time someone tried this crap the story was "incubators stolen and premature babies thrown out" was exactly because a maternity ward is the only place this could even occur if it did at all. Which means someone leaned on that story and edited it to make it plausible for public consumption. These stories are not misinterpreted chaos. They are really spun up sometimes out of whole cloth and fed to us like we are livestock.

null

This was a hard one to listen to. Thank you.

Gengeros

Stfu I’m pro hamas

——

Evan I’m old and married

——

I forgot where I was for a second honestly. I’m going to delete this. Before I do. I believe in a free Palestine. I think Israel is an apartheid state. I’m not a reactionary or liberal. Y’all need to get off the internet, and remember that in your communist utopia you’d all either die in a potassium mine or go to jail for questioning the party line.

Cody Pate

Its a hard time for everyone right now. Stay strong boys

Gordon Schmidt

Amazing that this was recorded before the hospital atrocity today. The media environment actually managed to get worse. Will God forgive us?

Gengeros

My god forgive us, for our children will not.

J P 3

I'm gonna amend my answer above. Biden's response probably will cost him Michigan and it won't help him in Arizona either. The issue isn't so much voters flipping from Biden to Trump, but Biden 2020 voters staying home.

owen

How does a concerned American not feel like a powerless ball of supressed rage during this time? This shit is outrageous, yes, but mostly depressing beyond belief.

J P 3

For the time being we are almost entirely insulated from the conflict. So in that regard, things are depressing for sure, but the situation has no real comparability to what life is like in the West Bank and Gaza. We can still go out and enjoy good weather, spend time and talk to family, for most of us food, water and shelter are not immediate concerns. The situation isn't comparable either to what is happening in regions around Israel. It's hard not to think the Biden administration's ineptitude might trigger a much larger conflict that eventually does come home, but rather than being entirely consumed by suppressed rage, I would say be thankful for the things that people currently have. Don't take people or time for granted in the here and now. If people feel the need to take some action, donate to good causes, write members of Congress, protest, talk to friends, organize, etc.

Zach Pierce

No. People here won’t even care in a couple of months. Our elections are decided on vibes from July-October of the year of an election

William

Practice? I don’t ignore it, but by now I have calloused myself to feeling anything when hearing about news like this, as a survival mechanism. It feels like the only thing I can do is witness and remember, and try to change the minds of the people around me when possible. Kind of like the Bolshevik method of participating in the electoral process so they can be there when people are disillusioned by it.

Darbley

Matt, still in our thoughts. Hope you're on the mend. ❤️✌️

Evan Scott

listen to the senior editor of a magazine currently calling "Free Palestine" a "savage nihilism" and baying about how the US 'betrayed Israel' leading up to these attacks. they've got the calm, even handed, sober analysis. or you can listen to the roided up navy seal this guy posted on the last episode

Evan Scott

posting this on the episode as Israel bombs a hospital and kills 1,000 people in one air strike

Evan Scott

you understood incorrectly

m

Curious if others else here (esp jews) are having the truly insane exp rn of hearing their direct family openly justifying and encouraging genocide when talking over the phone or over the dinner table

Christian Sarkis Graham

Follow the independent reporting of Lindsey Snell. She is doing fantastic work, and has no personal link to the Armenian state. The reason it’s difficult taking this in good faith is because it's made of a series of hit-and-run deflections that smokescreen what’s happened *right now* to Artsakh’s 120k civilians: - Illegally blockaded and starved of any imports for 9 months - Bombed without provocation - Forcibly expelled, with all state leaders illegally abducted when complying with exit orders. This all, *after* a signed border treaty in 2020, which followed a *separate* Azeri bombardment campaign, initiated again without provocation. This all *while* Aliyev vocally lays claim Armenia proper as “Western Azerbaijan”, openly preparing for military invasion. Stalin never had a right to sign Artsakh over to the Azeris in the first place, and when the USSR fell, Artsakh was denied right to self-determination that the rest of Soviet occupied territories were afforded. They fought for it in the way Palestinians have tried to for their own lands. We can talk about Armenians’ war for self-determination 30 years ago. We can talk about Armenia having over half their inhabited land stolen from them 100 years ago. Or we can talk about unprovoked war crimes happening right now. Yes, the previous ruling class in Armenia were puppets of Russian oligarchs. They were overthrown by an historically non-violent, citizen-powered coup, subsequently upheld in the country’s first clean, uncorrupted democratic election in decades of their history. The citizens decided that they were finished with living in Russia’s pocket, and wanted a modernized government reflective of their own interests. That is the purest definition of democracy. That new PM has plummeted in popularity, specifically *because* he has committed to de-escalation and concession re: Artsakh, failing to counter Azeri’s war crimes, in hopes that other world powers and liberal democracies will intervene. (Of course they won't.) So which is it, do you want to criticize Armenia for being “Soviet puppets,” or for attempting to “pivot to the people waging genocide in Palestine”? If you’re fishing for a reason why they deserve what’s currently happening to them, at least do them the dignity of consistency.

Christian Sarkis Graham

To anyone in Chapo who may on off-chance see any of this: Thank you again for your needed work shedding light on what’s happening in Palestine. It really was not my wish to detract from it. Please consider at least mentioning once the similar plight suffered by the Armenians, at least in passing, as the world does not seem to care. Love to Matt and deepest wishes for his continued recovery.

The Children of Jack Acid

It's not quite as bad... but I do remember my grandma telling me that the Rodney King officers were "just following normal procedures. He shouldn't have kept getting up!" As a whitey, I have heard all kinds of terrible stuff from my closest relatives, so much so that when my cousin posted an Israeli flag on her Facebook page, I just assume that she would advocate at least LIGHT genocide against the people of Gaza if I asked her why she did it. So I won't even get into it with her because it'll just be a whole thing... and she's a liberal! You can imagine what my conservative relatives think.

The Children of Jack Acid

Can you guys explain the whole "If Hamas was ISIS, the Israelis would be sending them medics" joke to me? Y'all skirted right past that one like it was a quip in an MST3K episode!

Andrew Fitzgerald

What is the source for the State Dept saying they won't release the cause of deaths for any Americans killed in Gaza? I don't doubt the veracity, but I'd like to see and share the source

The Children of Jack Acid

Not only are the majority of Palestinians too young to have voted for Hamas in 2006, but even at that election, only 44.45% of the voters picked Hamas! Hamas won a plurality, not a majority. It's just that due to the apportionment of seats, that plurality was a majority of the actual parliamentary seats. Otherwise it's likely the Fatah could have put together a coalition of other PLO-member political parties to get a non-Hamas majority. Actually it's very similar to the George W. or Trump situation, where they won the majority of Electoral College votes but not the popular vote. Condemning Gaza for voting in Hamas would be like condemning all Americans for voting for Trump... the one difference being that Trump in 2016 got 46.1% of the popular vote, significantly closer to getting half the votes than was Hamas in 2006.

Oliver Elliott

My go to for this kind of insight into left-libs is the Lawyers Guns and Money blog. They (esp in comments) have turned hard against Israel.

Gage

Isis is funded by the CIA, often coordinates with Israeli intelligence, and receives combat extant aid.

Jaime Christley

I gather there are a few on here who also listen to Ghost Stories for the End of the World AND are sending best wishes to Matt Christman and his family. So I want to recommend an absolutely stellar GS episode with Christman as guest, it's # 26, "The American Years of Lead?" An expansive discussion that manages to weave together the souring of American counterculture circa 1968 and onward, a look at dissent and revolt among US soldiers during Vietnam as a kind of collective action that produced tangible revolutionary outcomes, and arguably the best framework for thinking about doomscrolling and getting Mad Online that I've heard from anyone. (And baby, I've been Very Mad Online for more than 30 years, so I've heard a lot of that kind of thing.) Ever grateful for Christman's analytical - but never aloof - knack for framing bigger pictures, not to mention the dulcet, Northern England tones of Ghost Stories's host, simply "Matt".

Poppy Chulo

Playing football and having gay sex in West Canaan Texas may have been the opportunity of your lifetime, but I don't want your life!

VE

Guest idea: Darren Beattie.

Sam

Beautiful work boys. Only thing I would push back on is the social media advice. I think responding with “drop a pin pussy” to people of consequence spreading murder propaganda online is perfectly appropriate, especially if you really mean it.

Deep into History

Thanks for this moment of clarity, so much disinfo on social media. Wishing Matt a full and speedy recovery.

Cascadia Breadloaf

Chapo boys are millionaires just donate all the money from the podcast for the next like 2 months to Palestinian relief none of you need the money

Evan C.

What happened to Lebanon when it received a huge influx of Palestinian refugees? What happened to their historically Christian Levantine majority? Also, why were they in Lebanon to begin with? What happened that caused the Kingdom of Jordan to send them to Lebanon? I’m only just learning about all of this.

Poppy Chulo

How do you know what they donate? And why wouldn't they spread awareness about charities you can donate to?

Jason Matthews

1) Lebanese demographics have been intentionally nerfed since at least the '50s in order to preserve the post-mandatory sectarian power sharing agreements. None of it should be treated as a known quantity.

Jason Matthews

2) it was a policy of Likud and other fanatical nationalists to offer Jordan as a homeland for the Palestinians, in exchange for a partition of the West Bank. Israel undermined stability there, just as they did in other neighbouring countries.

Matthew Krueger

Thanks for the podcast rec. That is a great ep - Christman, clear and articulate as always - but between that, this one, and this week's War Nerd (w Antony Lowenstein): what's happening in Gaza almost feels like the neolibs see this as a chance to normalize killing at a heretofore unprecedented scale. I wish I was more confident they wouldn't get away with it...

Jessica Rios

Matt is so missed. We love Will and Felix too but we need Matt so much right now.

j c

15 year old spotted

Cascadia Breadloaf

Damn you got me too dude it's so good of you to stand up for your friends that know and care about you

Alex

I got a solution: Dissolve the Israeli government and form and actual democracy that incorporates Palestinians. Democracy and equity are the only ways we can end these cycles of violence. The fact our governments can’t decide between inaction and genocide is a damning indictment against the neoliberal imagination. Israelis have been protesting Netanyahu’s corrupt government all year. They should make coalition

Elliot Matheny

agreed regarding the neoliberal imagination, but it’s hard to imagine an integrated Palestinian and Israeli state working in theory or practice at this point. Israeli settler opinion of Palestinians is shockingly dehumanizing, and I can’t imagine the Palestinians being particularly copacetic with their 75+ years long oppressors. As for real politik, Israel holds all the cards - they’re a nuclear armed state with massive military and diplomatic power, led by a straight up fascist government. I don’t see even a hypothetical international coalition as capable of disarming the regime and getting them to agree to some kind of mixed state, let alone honor the borders that Israel has blatantly disregarded since its inception.

SF

Yes

Patrick Burke

Felix is a serious mfer because he’s going righteously hard against evil forces and he’s always stood by it.

Alexandr

Not to interject in the insults but the Chapos are extremely generous with their money to charity, they simply do not advertise it.

Sean Carton

I think that, along with all other solutions like it, has been tried. The only answer is for bigger powers to bring Israel to heel. P.s. not an anti semite.

Hardcore Virgin

Fairly conclusive proof Blinken is in fact a hoochie coochie man. 🎸