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#557 - Demonstrated Social Impact Initiatives (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-09 04:23:48
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2026-06
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Content

Our Superdelegate patron tier voted for us to discuss GARDEN STATE (2004), a millennial touchstone that may or may not have "aged well." We discuss Manic Pixie Dream Girls, whether or not the Shins are "cringe," and our own lost youths.

Join Luke as he moderates the book launch for "Shifting Gears" with Dr. Stephanie Ross and Dr. Larry Savage, about the evolution of the Canadian Auto Workers union from WWII to today. September 9 at 7pm - https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_2HqVin-tTJmlP1eSwUcOfA#/registration

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Comments

George Olken

Not everyone (including not all your listeners) was 14 in 2004

Jeremy Hawkins

I think the timing on releasing this episode worked out. This weekend there was a weird call for blood from Zach Braff's brother in arms, Napoleon Dynamite's Jared Hess for his trailer for his Minecraft movie. Scars(?) from the mid 00s need to be examined now! I really liked this episode, after Deadpool and Wolverine and Studio 60, if we haven't gotten our fill of you guys ripping stuff apart we never will. Really interesting conversation. When I think of this movie, I think less of this movie than I do to a time when I used to read The A.V club. As far as the listener's question goes I think that it's kind of a fool's errand to find a "Leftist West Wing" unless you have a really broad definition of leftist and west wing, in which case the answer is Star Trek. Even in movies I feel like you have to go all the way back to a time where there was a powerful left with an optimistic view of the future with movies like The General Line, Strike, Redes, or a defiant piece of propaganda (good) from blacklisted Hollywood screenwriters like Salt of the Earth to scratch that itch. A leftist West Wing would have to be about workers engaging in struggle where they do the right thing and not politicians epically owning capitalists.

Mid-Sized SeDan

As someone who has never seen Garden State, I am a bit curious about how the character is portrayed as overmedicated. Feels like that's part of a stigma against medication for mental health that — at least in the circles I run in — has largely disappeared. Anything to that? Also slightly sad that JD Vance didn't get a mention here, seems like you guys forgot that that's why this movie entered the running back in August in the first place

Dan

Oh man,"Tears are not enough"; hearing that again unlocked a memory from Elementary School. When I first heard it in 1995, it was a bunch of kids in my town's Catholic school, half-heartedly performing it in the gymnasium, some dressed as clowns.

Chris

The French tv show Baron Noir is a good political programme from a sort of leftist perspective, definitely recommended. Reel Politik did an episode about it ages ago.

aaron

Not leftist by any means but a maybe useful and fun programme is Yes, Minister. It lays bare the cynical manegerialism of the permanent state -specificly the british civil service- In a way sort of similar to how a close reading of the FT can be a very useful tool to see how the people who actually run the world process media and events. It also still holds up as comedy

Julia

I was 23 when this movie came out, I'm a woman and I can tell you a lot of young women who are my peers loved it. We were sad girls and dreamed about meeting sad boys and saving each other. Natalie Portman's Sam is a sad girl, even though she's quirky.

Devon Hansen

Re: leftist shows, the HBO procedural miniseries The Night Of is a decent candidate, it’s the only modern piece of media in its genre I can think of that portrays detectives and prosecutors as more like antagonists and a criminal defense lawyer as a protagonist, and offers some pretty on-point critiques of the American criminal justice system and the healthcare system as well

Elias Brander

Upon hearing Luke describe Borgen as leftist, I unholstered my revolver. Birgitte or whatever she is called would be in coalition with he racist party in a heartbeat. Really Denmark these days have much more racist politics than the rest of the nordic for example.

Zwoozy
>>148927890

I can also say I know several women who could point to this movie being a matchpoint for many "I can fix him" relationships.

Julia
>>148914243

He just appears to be genuinely disaffected by everything and thus stunted in his emotional growth

Julia
>>148914243

As for JD he was obviously drawn to Zach Braff's eyeliner use for his table waiting gig

Zwoozy

It's a shame you aren't more familiar with critic Nathan Rabin's work. His work with the then independent AV Club (an extension of The Onion in their glory years) was tone-settling for the early years of the internet finding it's voice, and was a welcome break from the litney of borderline elderly reviewers you found in most media.

Chris Sherman

There’s a similar quirky young woman in the movie Ikiru who is a low level office worker and feels quite adrift in life. Her arc ends with getting a factory job, so we shouldn’t ignore deindustrialization as a factor in the MPDG problem.

Michael and Us
>>148930944

Respectfully, I think I was pretty explicit about the show's politics not really being leftist as such. I said it was Scandinavian centre left, which is what it is (with all that comes with that). - L

John Van Atta

When it comes to (consciously or not) leftist political art that doesn’t just affirm my world view- Deep Space 9 “In the Pale Moonlight”. Struggled with this episode so much, it conflicted with a lot of my ideals. But since it aired the civilizational death spiral has accelerated so quickly. Sisko was right. Garek was right. The material consequences of their actions helped ensure survival. Ideals can’t be abandoned but they are only useful in dialectic with material conditions. Can’t imagine marching in a pro-war protest now but I would have been marching in 1939 in solidarity with Charlie Chaplin, he almost got deported for saying we should help fight Hitler.

Elias Brander
>>148930944

For sure, didnt mean to sound too hostile. But I still unholstered my gun out of reflex. Borgen is my personal west wing.

Michael and Us
>>148946708

I love that episode. There's such a menace looming from every part of it, and that it forces us — like Sisko — to really think through the moral and ethical implications of doing what he ultimately has to do. An all timer. - Luke

Taylor

now you have to do Lady Bird for us zoomers

Ty Underwood

People have mentioned DS9 as a sort of leftist political show but I want to suggest Fall of Eagles, the series about the lead up to WW1 where Patrick Stewart plays Lenin, and also a BBC series called Space Race that is almost sympathetic to the Soviet Union's space program.

John Van Atta

In 2001, the year that had fugazi's masterpiece swansong, love and theft, best white stripes album, best spoon album, converge's jane doe... don't care how cringe this seems but 'new slang' was the song of the year. I remember "know your onion!" topped so many critics' polls. Had the feeling of "sure, your less cool friends think new slang is best but we sophisticates appreciate structural craft" (granted the structural craft of know your onion! deserves all it's praise)

Ciaran Colley

The Holdovers was indeed a magnificent film.

ChapoFan inParis

I hate MPDG discourse so much. You can point out that these characters are underwritten or uninteresting and that they reflect the escapist fantasies of a certain type of young man and keave it at that. But 15 years ago,everyone was turning it up to 11, furiously denouncing MPDGs not as mediocre writing but as SEXIST! And implying that it should all bring great shame to filmmakers and film viewers alike. Which is so, so dumb.

ChapoFan inParis
>>148978365

I mean, how is it people are horrified at the idea of a movie introducing a character who exists only as a way to come in and solve all the protagonist's problems? Do these people not kniw that a million romantic comedies and Hallmark Christmas movies exist?

Ty Underwood
>>148914243

Honestly it scared the shit out of me as a kid, i felt it negatively affected my view of medication at least as much as Requiem for a Dream. It seemed to lean hard into that trope.

James Browning
>>148946708

Thank you for not spoilering that for me. I know I know I'm quite late to the party though recently a friend of mine told me that I must watch this show. I'm hooked and half way through season 6 now. That episode was referred to me by my friend as the best. There are many excellent episodes in that show. I'm almost to that episode. It was very serendipitous to see you guys talking about it. Now, I'm extra curious about that episode. Such a great show. So many excellent characters and themes. That episode "The Visitor" Season 4 Episode 2 really stuck with me. Wow. Such a moving episode.

Kijib

did noone nominate Bob Roberts or are u guys just not doing that one cuz u did the simspons ep, seems like it would have been very topical last month

Denise Fillion

I had just finished undergrad when Garden State came out. I have not seen it since. I remember thinking, even at the time, that the most memorable thing about the movie was the soundtrack. So I’m wondering: would anyone have cared about this movie so much without the shins? (And no! Not cringe to like them. I don’t feel like listening to them too much anymore but they’re a solid band. Coldplay may be a different story. 😉)

murt pie
>>148938510

I remember liking his stuff a lot. I really hope he didn't turn out to be a sex pervert like so many other guys...

Tyler Sutherland

Love to start a podcast with a discussion of post-war British left politics through the lens of Cullen's book/miniseries only to end it in a downright scholarly discussion of Garden State and the ramifications of the term "manic pixie dream girl". Love our boys!

Zwoozy
>>148938510

He runs a pretty active blog site, seems like a decent guy. Also seems like he's experiencing pretty bad unemployment woes.

Dry Buttplug

Sometimes I just like hearing someone talk about something I like.

Ambrose Honeysuckle

One day, in the summer of 2021, I visited Zach Braff's Wikipedia page (likely out of curiosity of what he'd been up to). When I clicked on the "Personal life" tab, I was treated to one of the most insane, deranged, utterly hilarious things I've ever read – whoever added this to Braff's page had/has a serious beef with the dude. I still have my screenshot of the paragraph, and return to it every now and then: Braff has wanted to be a filmmaker since his early childhood; he has described it as his “life dream.” Braff was diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder at age ten. During his childhood, Braff was a friend of future Fugees member Lauryn Hill at Columbia High School, in Maplewood. Braff attended Stagedoor Manor, a performing arts “training center” for young actors ages 10 to 18. There, he won an acting award, had his first kiss. Stagedoor is also where Braff met and befriended actor Josh Charles. Brad also knows Stagedoor alums Natalie Portman, Mandy Moore, and Joshua Radin. Braff attended Northwestern University’s School of Communication and became a brother of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity; he graduated in the class of 1997. Zach Braff was arrested several times in 2001 in Savannah, Georgia where his relatives and friends were jailed for raping a local 17 year old minor at a “rager” held at his home residence. Savanna College of Art and Design fired Braff in 2001 for fraternizing with students, unbecoming behavior, and not following course curriculum. Natalie Portman taught his summer course classes upon his firing. He is currently in prison for fraud, theft, identity theft, drugging of individuals for financial gain, drugging of individuals for sexual intercourse. He is also found to be tampering of government systems having a hacker delete his offenses from the databases. Zach Braff is also accused of attempted murder twice in 2001, recent confessions online have overturned previous court judgments. Zach Braff is a horrible person, with severe mental problems of a tenacious sexual nature and unrelenting meltdowns associated with refusals to commit sex acts. He has badgered previous victims and harassed witnesses involved in his old rape case hearing.

Ambrose Honeysuckle
>>148946708

I think Luke may need to invite a fellow DS9 devotee onto the pod to discuss that episode, as it is a masterpiece!

John Van Atta
>>148946708

There’s another famous podcaster named Will who’s been on the show who cemented a place in my heart by knowing Garak’s first name (in the excellent Chapo Stallone Cobra episode)

John Van Atta
>>148946708

Agreed! Curious what you thought of the first 2 seasons- I think this and TNG are the origin of opposite of the “jumps the shark” phrase being “grows the beard”. For me on rewatch they held up better than the first TNG seasons largely on the strength of the casting. Wow they got good actors, continuing into guest stars like Tony Todd in the Visitor and recurring roles like Louise Fletcher and Jeffery Combs

Geri Danton

It's so strange that you mentioned Borgen because I just started watching that a week ago. What's going on in France got me interested in watching a drama about parliamentary politics rather than what we have in the US.

John Van Atta
>>148946708

But if we can get Luke talking about DS9 we should cash whatever chips we have to make it also include ‘far beyond the stars’. “I am a human being” articulates the pain and the promise of science fiction better than anything I’ve encountered

shabana

YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION! MY NAME WAS IN YOUR MOUF!! <3

Kevin McCandless

Not in the episode but Alexandra Pelosi gets a Trump shout out in the debate.

Elias Brander

Solid 9 to 5 lunch pale Michael and Us episode. Keep it up!

piranhaplant
>>148959590

Best Christmas film I've seen in a while. I like a Christmas movie that's a bummer.

Zach Hurley

Mostly off topic, but I request an episode on Ed Lachman’s concert film Songs For Drella.. not for any particular reason other than I wanna hear you guys talk about it and think it could generate an interesting discussion.

James Browning
>>148946708

I just watched "Far Beyond The Stars" and definitely agree with you on that. I'm thinking season 6 may be the best of DS9 seasons though I really liked Season 4&5 a lot. Such an excellent show. I'll definitely rewatch for years to come. It's cool to have my podcast consumption crossover with my current television viewing.

Eric

Babylon Berlin: best show on TV rn. Luke, any thoughts on Peaky Blinders? By no means a Lefty show, but its class politics are at the very least novel, but I’ve yet to find any critic that’s convincingly pinned it down.

Johnny 5

It really hurt to hear Will say Canadian music sucks, even as a non Canadian. My two favorite bands are Canadian: Propagandhi and Unleash The Archers!

smallcat85

The degree of deference to Zach Braff and Natalie Portman in this episode makes me want to barf. For women, and young women, this movie didn’t create the pixie as much as remind us of how we’ve spent our whole lives watching and reading this trope - Indie movie or not. Expected a bit more from historical materialists than - I’m an edge lord because this movie doesn’t bother me! Otherwise I love this podcast, so this was a tough one for me.

Laura Frey
>>148927890

I was also 23, and while it didn't make the same kind of impression it might have on a teenager, it definitely made me think I could fix him (and I married the guy I was dating at the time, so I guess I did!)

Laura Frey

I had to look up which Coldplay song was in this movie, I guess I don't remember because it was the only song I was already familiar with. Coldplay's first album is great and still holds up! Agree this movie wasn't going to be as big without the soundtrack. Some of it overlaps with Scrubs (Colin Hays, Cary Brothers) which I'm finding out because my 14 year old is binge watching it. Perhaps it's time for him to watch Garden State!