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New Video: The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-17 23:20:59
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Hey friends,

Here's a new main channel video that I began working on about six weeks ago. I originally intended this to be a shorter, simpler video that would tide viewers over until I finish my long-term product, but this one ballooned into something larger, as these things tend to do, and it's now the longest video on my channel, oops.

I was able to make use of research I've done for Tangents these last several months, which I'm sure you'll notice. I think the Tangents are promising not just as a Patreon reward, but also a way for me to experiment with topics before committing them to a main channel video.

Hope you all enjoy this drama fest of a video. As always let me know what you think!

ilyyy

Natalie

Files

The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling | ContraPoints

Why I left the center. Support this channel: https://www.patreon.com/contrapoints ✿Donate: https://paypal.me/contrapoints ✿Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/contrapoints/ ✿Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ContraPoints/ ✿Website: https://www.contrapoints.com/ ✿Twitter: https://twitter.com/ContraPoints ✿Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/c/ContraPoints ✿ContraPoints Live: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGh4... Check out my other videos: The Hunger: https://youtu.be/RTRT794IQBg Envy: https://youtu.be/aPhrTOg1RUk J.K. Rowling: https://youtu.be/7gDKbT_l2us Voting: https://youtu.be/t3Vah8sUFgI Justice (Part 1): https://youtu.be/smQsfNw_7V4 Cringe: https://youtu.be/vRBsaJPkt2Q Shame: https://youtu.be/K7WvHTl_Q7I Canceling: https://youtu.be/OjMPJVmXxV8 Opulence: https://youtu.be/jD-PbF3ywGo Men: https://youtu.be/S1xxcKCGljY Transtrenders: https://youtu.be/EdvM_pRfuFM Beauty: https://youtu.be/n9mspMJTNEY Gender Critical: https://youtu.be/1pTPuoGjQsI The Darkness: https://youtu.be/qtj7LDYaufM

Comments

Pepper

can’t wait to watch it at least 3 times this week

SeraphinaDevere

OH THATS SO EXCITING I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE BIG ONE BUT THERES ANOTHER ONE TOO EEEEEE

The Doom Merchant

screaming, crying, throwing up [with excitement]

C Jose

So good to see you again gorge 🤍🤍🤍

Jaololpes

Thank you for all your hard work Mother! Really appreciate it. Take care

PrawnsKafka

Already watched it twice and going in for thirds

Evelynn

I think this is really worth it to put out, so happy to have another video ❤️

Regina Cuddeback

I feel very seen with your fascination with the WBC, I wrote a term paper on them for my capstone in college... i've read every memoir, seen every documentary etc. I'd be so psyched if Shirley quotetweeted me lmfao. Anyway I really respected Megan until I saw she was making this podcast and it's upsetting that you were roped into it AND that you had to listen to it... but I'm really glad you made this video though, amazing work as always. LOVE the lavender menace shirt btw.

ChatN

*Surprised Pikachu meme face*

Emily

Just finished work, so excited to watch!

Jessica Cheeri

I'll have to watch this in a bit, but it's great that Tangents has been helpful for research

bryar

im getting a bucket of movie theater popcorn on my way home from work to watch this.

Ted(dy)

it’s great so far as usual. a new contrapoints video is the best birthday gift i could ever ask for. much love to you, Natalie

CoffeePoints

I've had a pretty rough day today, so I'm excited to watch the new video 🤗 no pressure but I'm sure it'll make my crummy day 420x better

James Ross

I’m only eleven minutes in, but I can already tell you seem a lot more relaxed Natalie, and this new energy suits you!! 😊❤️

Peter Rozing

Thanks! This is great! Really made my day a whole lot better. I'm so excited!!

michaela

loving the video so far and the jeelai beelai peet rat cameo!

ingerfieee

lovely vid, natalie❣️

Cashmere Hawksworth

Oh my gosh! I’m so so excited to watch this. Thank you!!!

Crissa Kentavr

Well, JK seems to have ballooned into the weekly bigotry so, it makes sense your video would get longer.

Eric J

Yaaaaay when that new contrapoints mixtape drops 🔥🔥🔥

Kevin

feel like contrapoints is the voice i wish i had if i was articulate 😭 thank you for telling it as it is queen

Sergio Augusto

i definitely see the influence of the tangents! i'm glad they've helped you shake off perfection paralysis if even a little. and of course we all win!

Cowboy

So excited! :))

will simmons

Thank you as a teacher in Florida I too have left the center, now I can say why and sound cool and smart, (as much as I can to teenagers).

Sam Rodgers

Most importantly, you look super hot - especially in the Anita Bryant tee

Scott Mechler

My Parasocialsona with Natalie is hillbilly dad who heard about "gay" on the news, thought about how much anxiety about teen pregnancy he has with his daughter and privately thought it was a great idea. Then ten years later reacted to her coming out with an enthusiastic knee slap and exclamation of "Sheeit!"and embarrassingly calls his daughter honeybug in front of all her girlfriends.

Joe Johnston

Someday, I hope you feel you have to the space to talk about less pressing issues. Right now, the house is on fire. I know this tronche of anti-trans/anti-women hate laws will pass (they always tend to) but a lot of people are going to get hurt or worse until things get better. I think your work helps. Hang in there.

Ricky SolarDesire

Just finished watching this masterpiece. I really hope it does reach its target audience.

David Powell

I am a middle school teacher in an alternative school for students with emotional disabilities. Trans students are wildly overrepresented at my school, particularly among kids requiring intervention for suicidal ideation and self harm. I deeply appreciate your work as a consistent anchor for navigating trans issues in a manner that prioritizes nuance and good faith. It has really helped me, and I hope it has helped the students I work with.

Kai_033

I know you and Vaush have drama and I get both sides but to just say that Vaush doesn't care about trans rights in your video is..incredibly disingenuous. Vaush is a dingus, yes. But he cares deeply about trans people. Please don't let you drama cloud that. This is why the left keeps losing.

Jessica Luchesi

You're awesome but the best news of the whole stream was you have a gf and that was awsome! <3 All the love to you both :)

Wissa

My centrist heart, wrecked to pieces. Where Civil debate never ceases. Even though we disagreeses, There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's.

pufferfish

This video is amazing. Thank you for going so in depth. And for caring so much to do so.

Wangled Teb

This is great!! I've been thinking about a lot of these ideas lately bc of stuff we've been talking about in class but you really tied everything together brilliantly and developed stuff way better than I ever did. I just have one question: WHERE can i buy one of those transsexual menace shirts? I need one, it's an important part of my gender journey

Jo Quigley

Okay-- so is the Budlight then being replaced by a Campbell's Soup can a timely Dylan Mulvaney joke or are you just getting weirder corporate deals?

Raine

This is a super important topic, thank you for talking about it even though it's exhausting and infuriating. I hope you treat yourself after this and can put their nonsense out of your head for a bit!

Joe

Mama you're about to trigger a wave of people buying t-shirts with retro LGBTQ slogans on them. Phenomenal video btw.

Nin Nin

I love your videos

Whatever

Congratulations on another great video. Your ability to cover difficult topics, while keeping them engaging and even funny is remarkable. Also, the meal kit parody was amazing.

highclass_lady

I'll leave a better comment after a night of sleep, but for now, I just wanted to say, amazing video, & I hope your carpal tunnel is starting to heal! Please try to take it easy for a bit; both because you deserve to, & so you can recover properly! Hope you feel better soon ❤️‍🩹

kaybeezeey

I adore this “70’s activist throne room invasion” aesthetic

Hope L

This vid has been a desperately needed catharsis

Cameron

Loved the video Natalie. Thanks for your hard work. Being a patron for so long has been a great pleasure. My only point of contention is, I question whether the Vaush takedown is helpful to the video. I'm no fan of his, but I fear that it will distract from the otherwise really important overall narrative. Hopefully that's not what people take away from this.

Cookie

Omg you are glowing! Ty for the content! 🫶🏽

Bryan Wildenthal

I love this video, but in the final edit, PLEASE leave up text boxes for longer than a second or 2. I'm only halfway through now, but at least half a dozen times I've had to repeatedly go back and freeze-frame the video to read the almost subliminal "blink and you miss it" posting of crucial bits of text being shown on-screen.

Kat Back

49:46 of this video musically sounded like Joel Haver “Do Girls???" from 3 years ago.

Bryan Wildenthal

About 55 minutes into this fabulous video, Natalie makes a brilliant point about how trying to "de-radicalize" bigots (approach them politely with empathy, etc) cannot (and should not) be "the only strategy." I would suggest it would help the punch and force of this video to articulate this concept clearly up-front. Contextualize right away who Megan Phelps-Roper is. Convey the empathy for her approach and perspective that Natalie does convey so effectively ... 55 minutes into the video. It's a fabulous video overall, but really too long. I know, I know, this preview showing is probably intended to get constructive suggestions like this. Which is why I am offering it. Can't wait to see a hopefully streamlined and better organized final version.

It's my channel & I'll post what I want to.

I'm a former friend of Angela Jones, who was one of the organisers of the infamous Melbourne Posie Parker event, she has since appeared in podcasts with a man who has a history of abuse against women, in the name of protecting women from "men in dresses".

L. Loparco

Thank you Natalie for all of your hard work.

Mazen

Grateful for all your work 🫶🏼💕

Andee Blacksugar

Thank you for the generosity of your work. I’ll need to watch this more than once for sure.

Cabbage

Loved this!! But I do have to wonder if the Vaush section was a good idea, I have a feeling it's going to overshadow the other 90% of the video to the point where people won't even be talking about the rest, which is a little counterintuitive imo :/

Gerhardt Weiss

Great video! Really appreciate your perspective! Great writing and production as always!

Bryan Wildenthal

Around 1:20, Natalie makes a typically brilliant argument about the dishonest cherry-picking by JKR and her apologists of the nasty and violent criticisms that some have lobbed against her in response to (what Natalie brilliantly proves beyond any reasonable doubt is) her blatant transphobia. I think this would have been more effective if front-loaded or previewed (in some form) very close to the beginning. This video, very early on, plays clips of some of those nasty and threatening anti-JKR statements. They're unsettling. JKR and her apologists get tremendous mileage out of them. I wondered when or how Natalie would address the issue. Her response needs to come a lot sooner than more than 75 minutes into the video. Keep up the great work, Natalie! I haven't kept up with the channel as much as I should lately but a consistent and proud Patreon supporter (I'm a cis gay guy, by the way).

TempoRainy

this video was very spiritually healing for me, as someone who has been frequently dealing with right-of-center family members to whom i have to constantly justify my existence and stand up for myself, all whist trying to avoid being seen as too hysterical. extremely cleansing and cathartic, i was very moved.

Trey Pylon

I keep hearing about this leftist YouTuber named Vaush but the more I learn about him the more he seems to be a right leaning troll. Whether he is or isn’t I don’t know, from what I’ve observed he seem to be like that friend who says,” I got your back” when a bully is about to fight you, then says,”HEY! My friend here said your mom sucks d!ck!” You think he’s being helpful until you realize he’s just instigating $#!+. Maybe he means well, maybe he doesn’t, maybe he just does what he does for the LoLz without realizing their maybe after effects, who knows. What I do know is that people should have their rights to live as they choose respected. Regardless of what anyones opinions might be. So thank you Natalie, for another awesome video.

thequeerquartz

since the harry potter IP spreading even further i have trouble convincing people to also get to the "harry potter is dead to me" phase. JKR is like a broken sprinkler guzzling water into the street, like yea maybe that's not my lawn but its definitely flooding my street. so who do i need to talk to to fix the shitty sprinkler

Bryan Wildenthal

1:22 to 1:26: absolutely brilliant use of historical comparison to past liberation movements! I know, I know, not everything can be front-loaded. But this is so good and so important, it would be great if there was some way to briefly preview it earlier, then maybe repeat the point more elaborately later. The somewhat lengthy opening segment on Anita Bryant is a great history lesson itself, but if it were prefaced and framed by the points Natalie develops so brilliantly more than an hour later, that would enhance its impact.

David Preville

I've seen a couple of Vaush's video's so far. I like that when he reacts to videos he often tries to pull up sources. But I understand he is controvertial for reasons that are valid. I think his thoughts on policies are pretty left and his attitude and engagement with his audience are more what people take issue with. But I am no expert.

David Preville

I caught the first half before work and so far the quality is on point as usual. Always a treat to see a new Contrapoints video drop

Bryan Wildenthal

1:32: ROTFL! One of the things I love about Natalie: her skill at driving home an argumentative point with memorable humor. My only worry: a lot of viewers won't wait this long to see it ... My admiration for this channel has been re-invigorated by this important and brilliant new video!

Bryan Wildenthal

One more thing: I am going to buy Andrea Dworkin's "Rightwing Women"! Thank you for alerting me to this fascinating book. I also never agreed with much of Dworkin's thought (Natalie mentions she also disagrees with much of it) but always had the sense she was an interesting thinker ... but was completely ignorant of this particular book.

Adaline De Chenne

I love the in-depth discussion of this! I think Noah's description of the situation not simply being a rhetorical discussion is spot on. Seeing the new legislation coming out, like in Missouri, really puts in perspective how viewing trans rights as a debatable idea only serves to postpone any real changes while giving more time for bigoted movements to act. I'm lucky to live in a state that has codified protections for rights to gender-affirming care, but the news has been so demoralizing recently that I had to watch this video with breaks.

Adora Griepentrog

The "I need to know how the alien fucks" line is what finally pushed me into getting on your Patreon

WeirdyBeardy

Yeah Vaush is very much a hard leftist in an ideological sense, but he's also spent so much time debating and arguing with conservatives who let's face it are insane and so he will then bring that same kind of attitude to any leftists he disagrees with, especially if they're a woman. It's a pattern I noticed after a while and had to stop watching his streams because he has these internalised bigotries and this utilitarian view where by his way is the correct way and anyone promoting other methods is wrong and therefore equivalent to the far-right. It can be kind of subtle but if you watch how he interacts with leftists that disagree with him, especially if they're woman a pattern emerges that quite frankly I couldn't stomach.

WeirdyBeardy

Loving the T-Shirts 10/10. Absolute banger from the one and only Contrapoints. I will say though there is a dangerous level of TERFiness in the video more than any human being should have to endure. So I hope you're doing OK Natalie, because wading through that quagmire can not be good for you.

RJ Whyte

Queen still mad king was mean to the omegaTERF, huh.

nadine

as someone (cis woman) who has struggled to show people in my life why jkr is transphobic, i find your insight on how we should deal with them v helpful. now i know why it's so frustrating when i send them links, resources, etc. and they still don't get it. goddd, this is so good and helpful. thank you, natalie my parasocial friend 🥰

Thermington

Thank you Natalie, you’ve shown me so much relevant and valuable insight on this public “debate” nonsense. The comparison to the anti-gay movement, the Motte and Bailey fallacy, and most importantly shining the light on the real devil of republican authoritarianism and the active crusade against trans identity (as well as nearly all other identities that aren’t bible cult approved identities), all such vital elements that so many people who discuss this topic fail to fully comprehend. I’m exhausted by this topic too, but I’m so glad that you addressed it in such a comprehensive response to that kid-glove bullshit witch trials podcast. I believe your work is invaluable. 💜

Johnny DeMartino

The Symphonie Fantastique orgy underneath the string of conservatives talking about grooming is such a good pairing. “Why yes I HAVE descended into hell. It’s horrible out here!”

Jon Gilbert

Stayed up late to finish my first viewing & lost track of how many times I wanted add another like to the video. Fab stuff as always, Nat! And oh so important

JoshuaAnolick

Came for the incisive rhetorical analysis, stayed for the display of a Civil War artifact.

Jon Gilbert

okay I see some comments concerned about including the Vaush drama, but I see it as relevant and don’t think Natalie should sweat it

Claudio Näf

Oh no first I need to finish watching Envy for the 23rd time..

Elizabeth

I almost spit out my drink at “The Boy Who Slived.”

ER

As tiresome as it is to keep hearing about this lady's "valid concerns," I did really enjoy and appreciate this essay. I think my favorite touch is playing "Dies irae" on the title cards, especially given the random Latin chanting in the witch hunt podcast.

John

This video was great, thank you. I especially appreciate that you can approach these serious topics with comedy. All the Natalie Easter eggs were fun to find like the Jelly Belly Pet Rat and what I think is now the 3rd video to feature Tati’s “sucking d*ck and c*ck” reaction video. You squeeze her in somehow and I cackle every time.

Fallen Through Time

Jesus Fucking Christ this was good. Ugh. So good. You are a fucking goddess.

Darren DM

Just woke up to this glorious update. Feeling #blessed.

Eric Kaplan

people should read wizard of earthsea

CrystalJade

I love your work so much! The excellence of your qualitative and critical analysis on such an emotive and terrible subject is simply outstanding. To me this video is a masterpiece on the phenomenology of fear based intolerance. Adding your usual good humour to such a serious situation makes this a VERY important Contra classic in the making. Great work Natalie! ❤️❤️❤️

CrystalJade

Ps: I think using tangents in the way you suggest makes perfect sense. Do make sure you take some time after this to decompress, and look after yourself. Thank you SO much! Xx

Darren DM

Loving the Sybil Fawlty look for you in Chapter 2!

Zafar

Thanks for shining your light. It’s desperately depressing and gas lighting and infuriating when people keep insisting With such fatuous entitlement that you Don’t Exist. We are so lucky that you DO exist, and that you continue to do so With such grace and generosity of spirit.

Megara

Amazing video (like always). Thank you.

LSDFR2

I laughed so much at the "The Judy Garland at Home" joke! Great video as always Natalie.

Ted(dy)

Did you use one of those AI deepfake voice generators for a lot of the quotes?? If so I think that’s probably the only ethical and inherently good use of such technology; to put what someone has written on paper literally into their own spoken words. great work

Darren DM

Just want to say how much I admire the dedication you have to trawling through the source material. I for one just couldn't bear to listen to that cursed podcast! You're performing psychically dangerous labour on our behalf and, in short, I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Luiza

🥰 I'm very happy for you and wish you and your girlfriend all the best and 💖 so much love 💕

kevin

Thanks very much! Greatly informative as these presentations always are. Particularly enjoyed the thoroughness with which the motte and bailey falacy was described and identified.

Kapelski

The video was great as always, but the bit with Vaush bothered me. I feel like saying that he does not care for trans people isn't true at all. Most of what he's been doing has been advocating for trans rights now that the 'trans debate' has been escalated by the right so much during the last two years. I do get that the so-called ironic misogyny looks very bad and I think Vaush is being dumb when he insists that there's nothing wrong with joking like that. I still don't think he hates women though. You can easily find him speaking against and mocking people like Andrew Tate. He vocally opposed the overturning of Roe v Wade and called out JKR for not talking about it. What I'm trying to say is that you two are ultimately on the same side even if he has that edgy side to him and should try and work things out. Infighting isn't helpful at times like these. Neither of you were blameless for this drama, but bringing it up like this over a year later felt strange and out of character for you.

Frankie

This is probably my favorite video ever by you. Funny and insightful.

Sunbeam

Loved this so much! All this history and context really puts modern events into a deeper perspective. It's beautiful and funny and tragic and endearing at the same time. It was sad learning that Michelle Goldburg is a "pearl-clutching" centrist with respect to transgender activism; I haven't read a lot of her articles in the NY Times, but the little I saw seemed OK, so that centrist corkscrew she pulled was a bit of a gut punch. A part of me wishes you had made a direct comparison between Vaush and the "bad" people of other political movements, especially the misogyny of the Anita Bryant protests, how using political tribalism (JKR being The Bad One) to justify gratuitous sexism and push toxic messages creates a callous and unwelcome environment for women, and weakens their equal participation in society, regardless of "correct" political beliefs. Personally, I'm just over the people, including leftists, who think being correct politically makes their a****** behaviour excusable (or worse, the subject of endless "debate"). This does open a whole can of worms and goes down a rabbit hole in a video that's already almost 2 hours long, though, so it was probably the right call. Sorry for this meandering post; Patreon is where I let out my tendency to blabber. Anyway, congratulations on the awesome video/film/treasured artwork. It's great that your life is (hopefully) getting better. Your videos are where I can laugh and think about politics at the same time, and it's wonderful. I'll keep watching this over and over on YouTube, and good fortune with your next project!

r

It was just a few minutes of the video, how would it overshadow every other point she made? I think we feel very comfortable critiquing women (left or right) but hesitate when it comes to leftist men, like we’re afraid that asking them to address their learned and often unconscious misogyny could push them to become neo Nazis. We shouldn’t walk on eggshells around men, they’re capable of critical thought. I’m glad Natalie brought it up and I think it supports her point.

Sus Scrofa Mustermann

I've been a subscriber of his since early 2019, and I actually have the reverse problem. People seem to start drama with him out of the blue, and either engage dishonestly, or show the complete incoherence of their arguments. There are so many people who I've lost respect for through seeing their engagement with him: Mexie, Noah Samsen, Shaun, and yes, Contra, too... Obviously the live stream/debate format is always going to be more prone to having slip-ups, be it not knowing things you should and coming off as ignorant, or getting heated and saying things you don't mean. He can double-down in the moment, but he has owned up to a lot of shit and mistakes me made. He also can be edgy and his content isn't for everyone - if you don't like it, don't watch it, but don't condemn it for bullshit reasons. In contrast to some of his critics, he actually embraces a multiplicity of tactics for social change. Also, WeirdyBeardy, please look up what "utilitarian" means.

Katsognathus

So cathartic, thanks for the vid.

Alice Intrigue

love the video! I think it's really smart to bounce with a topic here before taking it further in channel video, and it's great to see your points become more in-depth. I also love seeing you in t shirts in this video! You've got great looks in all your videos and it's nice to see more casual looks included here 🌻

I identify as a Stuka!

"I make no pretense at impartiality as between the fire brigade and the fire." Winston Churchill

ContraPoints

I did. It was my first experiment with AI and it did give me some ethical pause, but I decided that the way I was doing it was harmless enough, and it helped me get the video out faster

Vera

Love u

Joe

the boy who slived

Daniel Chudnovski

Incredible work as always. Having watched the tangents leading into this, there’s such an excellent feeling of summation that happened in this video that was a joy to experience!

Ted(dy)

a very solidly good move imo.

Frostfalls

It's frustrating how he does boneheaded things and doubles down on them, which is part of why I don't watch him much these days. But bringing it up here was kinda random and saying he doesn't care about trans people felt like a few steps too far imo

Kapelski

I really do respect Vaush and I think he's often very smart and he's a good person who really does care. He just keeps the "debate mode" on quite often, but no one is perfect. I'm willing to forgive that to him when considering everything that's good about him.

Frostfalls

Great stuff. I wasn't aware of just how eerily identical the arguments transphobes use today are to the arguments homophobes used in the 70s, and how opponents have always been complaining about how attacked they feel by "uncivil" activists. And the observation on how people question having any convictions after leaving a set of extreme beliefs really made sense. I have an "inner centrist" who constantly questions my convictions so that resonated with me.

Frostfalls

Yeah, I think he's not a bad guy at heart. I just find it too stressful to watch him constantly step on rakes you know? lol His videos pushed me significantly to the left and helped me learn to articulate left wing points better to boomers when I did watch him a lot so I'm thankful for that

Electro_Static

I really love this video, and how Contrapoints really zeros in on the bigotry of the conversation in the podcast being implicit in how it is framed to exclude any examples violence and harassment directed at trans people by the “gender critical” side. As well as how TERFS are being willfully ignorant of of literally any other liberation movement. I think another addendum to add might be the dismissal of liberal methods, namely any reasonable discussion against a bigoted point of view is dismissed by bigots an “not mainstream” in the community they are bigoted against. It’s like a moat in your castle analogy, any time you make an easy and rational argument, they push it into a moat by saying that it isn’t a widely held belief.

Iana Nelson

I appreciate when you include the moments where you just can't anymore and you break. They are a fun way to relieve tension and add a little levity to a topic that is pretty painful to watch, especially as a trans woman myself.

cheesecurl

I also loved this video. I'm sorry you had to spend time engaging with this absolute lowest level of humanity for so long again - maybe next month's tangent can be about your favorite beaches? Or some sort of self-care travel vlog. I would love that for you.

Peter

Brilliant, especially the point about the sunk cost fallacy that comes with their level of bigotry. I've raised it quite a few times with friends when we try to consider how these people could even plausibly get out of the hole they've dug for themselves. Equally, it is very funny that TERFs get the soap box on cancel culture after what they did to Stewart Lee for literally the smallest, most implicit criticism possible (putting bindel and glinner on a year end "pedal bin" list in his monthly emails to fans). Dude has spoken up about getting his damn address posted on mumsnet and having shows (rather impotently tbh, which he made a joke about) picketed/protested. All over like two lines in an email. Anyway, really fantastic work Natalie! I've enjoyed your videos so much this year, it's been delightful to see so many new vids since becoming a Patron. Thank you so much!

Cabbage

It could overshadow every other point of the video for the public because a lot of leftists on the internet like to argue about stupid things instead of important things; pretending that isn't a possibility is silly considering what happened with Opulence. I didn't say it was a bad idea to criticize Vaush or that it didn't have a place in the video (literally do not care about him either way), I said it might not have been a good idea because of how likely it is that a lot of people will spend more time talking about it than anything else in the video. But considering the fact that the people most likely to harp on about this are annoying twitter/twitch leftists, I doubt it even matters how they will respond to the video in the first place and they probably aren't the target demo anyway.

Eric Williams

And SERVING Gloria Steinem circa ‘74, love

Rene Ronis

Thank you for this one, thorough, elaborate and nuanced while still being condensed

Gwen Stearns

Just wanted to say that it's been roughly five years since I first started supporting you on Patreon (I can't remember exactly when I started, but I'm pretty sure it was sometime in 2018). Your work has meant a lot to me over the years, and I'm very happy to have contributed in a small way to your making it.

Stormbourne

Really good video and great points! But also damn girl you look great in that 70s anti-Anita Bryant look. Really loved the comparison of modern anti-trans points to dated anti-gay and specifically anti-lesbian ones. It's just that their wedge is shrinking and they're clinging to whatever piece of it is left, but damn does it suck that they still fucking have a wedge.

Laura G

Well-meaning trans folks who expect a decent outcome from sitting down with people who genuinely want to sic lynch mobs on us or to send us to prison just for existing remind me of the old Onion Headline: ACLU DEFENDS RIGHT OF NAZIS TO BURN DOWN ACLU HEADQUARTERS. I used to be one of those well-meaning trans folks.

Beth Jerky

thank you thank you thank you. i have taken notes and it definitely changed the way i deal with terfs on t*itter. and yes, i blocked JoKRowling

ContraPoints

Thanks so much for sticking with me this long 💜

Franco del Rosario

Granted, I didn’t watch the original “tangent” re Groomer Libel (I think the subject matter was too uncomfortable to me haha), but I did watch this new channel video. And it feels very new and very fresh and on-brand with the rest of the channel videos. I am all-in for using Tangents to workshop or experiment with topics you are considering, sounds like an excellent idea! But also, main channel video on favorite SpongeBob episodes when? 🥺 EDIT: Obviously goes without saying that this video is excellent and endlessly rewatchable. That sense of empathy and ability to articulate things never ceases to impress 👏

TheMadFox

The fact that this video was made in a such a short period of time is insane. I hope that means that you are in a good place personally and creativity. Thank you for your important work. PS if you need help with making russian subtitles, do reach out, I know a girl😉

VampireFaun

I absolutely LOVED this video!!!!!! Watched the whole thing, 10/10!!! Since you mentioned you're using tangent research for videos, I just wanted to chip in and say that your new atheism tangent is actually one of my fav videos you've ever done on either youtube or patreon. If you were ever thinking of adapting that one, I'd definitely love to see that topic shared with the world :)))

Diana Gibson

Totally agree. I've always been fascinated by the suffragettes for that reason, especially in contrast with the "moral" reasoning at the time for letting women vote: that we are just so peaceful and nurturing and maybe even would never go to war (blech 🤮) like, the suffragettes were like "no dipshits, we're human beings, point blank period" we are no less fallible than men and deserve the same rights, regardless

Dr Pete

AMAZING video! Just wondering - is there anywhere you can buy a 'Tala' t-shirt? They are my hero!

Diana Gibson

This is so confusing to me. Opposing the overturning of Roe and seeing Andrew Tate for what he is are so bare minimum. Personally, anyone who uses misogyny in any way to fight on my behalf is extremely sus and not a safe ally in my books. Maybe it's hyperbolic to say he "hates women" but his rhetoric absolutely is misogynistic and that affects all women in a very Overton window like way.

Anveio

Great video Mademoiselle Points, but I'm confused by the segment from 1:16:45 to ~1:18:00 where you highlight a tweet you made calling out "bad behavior on the left that 'magnifies the grain of truth' in what the TERFs say". But how does that stance reconcile with the edgy jokes you made in the past, or in this very video? For example, TERFs like JKR could highlight the clip in this video where you say "kill your shitty child" to paint anti-TERFs as violent/dangerous to children/mentally unstable/etc.

Simon_Dinosaur

This video kept me up until 1am in the morning last night, distracted me at work all day, and taught me things I never knew about Anita Bryant. so naturally I just had to upgrade my Patreon tier. Best content creator on YouTube thank you Natalie! (PS. I also blocked JK Rowling on Twitter).

Aliya Miranda

This video was amazing!! I’m so glad that the tangents helped you work through your ideas and make something faster! I hope the tangents continue to help, they were awesome to listen to prior to the video, too. It’s both exciting and inspiring to watch you figure out a work flow that works for you creatively. You killed it!!🥳

Marvin A.

is that what contra did too, you think? did she start drama with him out of the blue, engage with him dishonestly or show the complete incoherence of her arguments?

Kapelski

Those were just a few examples of support for women's issues I immediately came up with. Feminist theory has been talked about too along with other things. I think it's important to note that when Vaush does his woman jokes (which are a bit cringe tbh) he never does it in a way that presents misogyny in a positive light. He is clear about his beliefs and not trying to argue through the edgy humor. You seem to be overstating the harm a little.

Franco del Rosario

My own take on this (and this is just one stranger’s unsolicited opinion and I’m not an authority on anything): Natalie rarely gets in trouble for things that she actually says in videos (jokes, ideas, etc.). And I suspect it’s because it’s very easy to dismiss folks who want to paint her as some kind of villain for these one-off jokes. Like it’s just too easy to say “No, you’re clearly arguing in bad faith because that joke serves a much broader and meaningful purpose in this 2-hour long video.” And the detractors would then have to acknowledge the overall thesis of the video, which means having to meaningfully engage with the content. On the other hand, for one-off tweets, if you don’t take the time to dig into the tweeter’s public persona, a passer-by could see a tweet and conclude that one particular tweet is a summary of a person’s entire belief system. So edgy jokes or even careless wording just do not fly on Twitter

Mel Henning

I read it as a callback to the earlier mention of Andy Warhol. I'm also glad I'm not the only one who paid attention to the soup can

Timid and Meek

Any gratitude and praise that I want to say have been said better by others, so I just wanna say your "sliving" look from Opulence/Shame is honestly one of my favorite looks ever. To this day I'm still searching for that type of blouse with a connected, diaphanous ribbon/lavallière... so sliving, so diaphanous, so resplendent!

Mel Henning

After past events I was initially skeptical of this woman Natalie is dating, but the quote "it makes me want to gouge out my eyes like Oedipus" has put my concerns entirely at ease - signed, someone on the interternet who has totally earned the right to express an opinion on this topic by doing nothing in particular

Süni

This was such an amazing video. Watched it twice already. Thank you!

Dr Pete

I read that Megan Phelps Roper would really like to speak with you Natalie for her epilogue regarding your criticisms - I'm assuming the answer would be a firm 'no'?

Miriam Sved

Bloody brilliant. So glad if the tangents are helping to unstick things. On a personal note I was so grateful for your debunking of the idea that anti-trans bigots are lesbian defenders - as a cis queer woman the JoRo lesbian defender trope has always made me want to throw things.

Christopher Belz

So informative, scary, funny, and witty! Cheers!

Daniel Loizos

NOW THE BLOOPERS!!!!!! (There is very little as funny as Contra being silly :)

Silvia Sofia Siliprandi

Should Tabby-chan and I go to Rome and serve a fruit pie to Giorgia Meloni?

Aimee

Everything about this was PERFECTION. Thank you so much for making. Commit to main channel!!! Megan.... good luck arguing with this.

Liz Jones

It’s one thing for a marginalized person to make edgy jokes about their own oppression/oppressors and quite another for a man to make misogynistic jokes against a woman, even if that woman is a bigot. It’s just really not his lane.

Liz Jones

Was it caring deeply about trans people when he used his platform to tell his followers to harass a trans woman — who has a history of being the target of brutal online harassment campaigns — for saying she didn’t appreciate how he was using misogyny to do his trans “allyship”? Bringing up her past struggles with addiction in the process? Because that’s not what I would call it.

Anna Plonka

It would be nice if it wasn't for the pettiness, it's really not a good luck and it made me cringe so much. Oh well, can't have everything.

tiaz

I really didn't expect that there was so much of value still to be said about JKR. You balance cutting through an invalid argument with a full and empathetic understanding of their position and motivation very well. That excellence made the 2-minute hate segment really jarring and disappointing, though. It's fine if you don't like him and don't want rapprochement, but I found that bit shockingly spiteful and not up to your usual standard. To suggest that he only does advocacy on trans issues to earn a pass to be misogynistic was particularly uncharitable, especially towards someone you previously seemed to respect and when extending grace to others for more. That said, it is two minutes and I won't let having a problem with 1/60th of an otherwise excellent video stop me from appreciating it

Adam Breeden

Really excellent video and very thought provoking - loved all the callbacks and references in the asides too

highclass_lady

I used to be in the humanitarian aid & conflict field (problematic & controversial I know), they’re not public figures & it’s not exactly the same, but they know what it’s like to face high expectations, to be loathed by some while trying to help, & to be seen as those who will idk, save a part of the world or something? They taught us that, if you’re going to be someone who keeps on making a difference, you gotta keep things sustainable for you; especially when dealing with ongoing marginalisation & working with opressed minorities. You kinda have to think of yourself like a resource that needs to last: sometimes where you allocate your resources is as valuable as as how well you do. About the ending, I didn't interpret "block JKR" to be taken as an alternative to activism, or in lieu of other activism; rather as an alternative to squandering anything on her in the future. Valuable time & effort expenditure that could be spent more effectively if redirected elsewhere from now on. To me, it was never meant to be mutually exclusive to activism & tangible involvement offline, this isn't a "vote & we'd be at brunch" take. I didn't see the suggestion to block terfs on social media as solely an act of self-care either, but rather a strategic way of moving forward, of sustainability, & in a way "budgeting" time & energy. You did an incredible job on this Natalie, so much insight & wisdom. If blocking bigots & finding other directions for your time & your ideas, other ways towards advocacy, exploring more of the human psyche or whatever is what you need or want for now & the future, that sounds like an adventure. What you’re capable of is absolutely wonderful.

north humpton

You are absolutely amazing, thank you so much 💖

run_away

megan phelps-roper: 'let me deceive this transsexual lol' debate and essayist queen of youtube: 'ok' ...megan errored.

dxsimoneaux

Okay, the production quality, arguements, and outfits are all snatched, yes yes... But the Tati Westbrook clips throughout are my favorite part omfg.

Christine Fletcher

Thank you. This is brilliant. Chapter 7 in particular.

neonlesbean

I think the difference is that “kill your shitty child” is not a joke at the expense of women. It isn’t punching down. A white cis guy ‘ironically’ saying something that lots of women have heard is really different from a trans woman joking about the bigotry she has experienced.

patroclus

Rowling will never reach the bottom of the whirlpool for the same reason Tom Cruise will never leave Scientology. Both of them are too important as public figures lending legitimacy to their respective cults to be allowed to leave. Now, they're too powerful to intimidate to stay, but I can imagine in the rare event they ever do express concern or reservation regarding allegations that the movement they're in is dangerous they will immediately be met with kind and caring remarks from people who will take the time to explain away any concerns they have.

Zindagigi

I think she waited a decent amount of time for the flames to die down around that whole $itshow so that she wasn't fanning the flames or somehow ccanceling him. And when she says, "vaush doesn't care about trans people", she is not speaking theoretically, she's talking about him openly calling on his audience to attack her and also bringing up her substance abuse issues as a below-the-belt insult. She's trans, but she dared to disagree with his approach to being a trans ally, so his attitude quickly switched to fuck her, let her burn.

gijoes

I'm going up a tier on Natalie's patreon. This video is mind blowingly good.

jord

Brilliant Nat! ❤️

Morhzov

TLDR: my response reflects on how this video made me think about the displacement of parents', usually those conservatives, rage and fear onto outsiders/others. Especially in relation to the emergence of technology and machine learning algorithms that weaken these groups' power to use classification to their advantage. Losing this power and privilege can make parents scared and angry, and the author draws parallels to the challenges faced by parents, particularly mothers. -- I really enjoyed this video, especially chapter 7. Specifically, using Dworkin to relay your points about women’s rage being displaced and projected onto outsiders/others made a lightbulb go on in my head. I’m generalizing your quotes when I say I took away that these women can’t attack their partners so they project that rage and fear onto the other. Is this just about violence or power held over them from members of their tribe?

 My hypothesis is that this displacement of rage towards the other, and specifically here in trans people, is also related to how the current emergence of technology, but specifically machine learning algorithms, have weakened these groups power to use classification to their advantage. Now they find themselves shoulder to shoulder in some ways with minority groups they once were able to stand above.

 A great piece around classification that I read recently is “The moral economy of high-tech modernism”. (link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368869307_The_Moral_Economy_of_High-Tech_Modernism) In it the author speaks about similarities and differences between ‘high modernism’ i.e. historical classifiers, bureaucracy and markets, with the ‘high tech modernism’ of machine learning algorithms. 

 The authors speak about how “… bureaucracy, the typical high modernist institution, and machine learning algorithms, the quintessential high tech modernist one, share common roots as technologies of hierarchical classification and intervention. But whereas bureaucracy reinforces human sameness and tends toward large, monopolistic (and often state based) organizations, algorithms encourage human competition, in a process spearheaded by large, near monopolistic (and often market based) organizations.”
 The authors give great examples of how ‘high modernisms’ bureaucracy allowed us to easily classify members of society by “…turning rich but ambiguous social relationships into thin but tractable information.” One of the examples here was imposing surnames to tax individuals. Markets often then exploited these classifications to categorize who and how to trade. They then share examples of ‘high tech modernism’ where examples of how Netflix slots us into one of it’s 2,000+ micro communities. But, instead of being fixed like bureaucratic classifications algorithms are dynamic and create new classifications as people slot into, grow, or change. Worst of all this is done without insight into how the system is classifying us. It takes away some of our defenses to the original system of classification. 
Given this paper and your video I’m reflecting that most cis-gender white people have become used to their classifications from ‘high modernism’. This classification allowed them certain status and how within recent years that status and power is being eroded. Losing this power makes one scared. In this context it also makes you angry for the reasons that you brought up about Mia’s tweets feeling like she was angry about her position as a mother and that position not being shared by her partner. “What’s the point of having to constantly take care of my child, day in and day out, if they can’t have the same things I had? They will be worse off! I’m not going to sit down and let this happen. I’ve got to defend them (and myself).” It makes one fearful of not only their loss of power but the loss of their power to support their children and their children’s privilege. What will this loss of power mean for their future lives? 

If this seems to go too far I’ll mention anecdotally being a parent myself has shown me the horrors of these types of challenges as a nuclear family. That’s even under the circumstances of a two middle-class parents cohabitating and co-working together to try and take care of our children. But, there are so many examples of other partners that I know of where this balance is completely lacking. Most men, and particularly southern men, that we live among expect about 95% of the work to take care of children to be done by the mother. There is little help that the male provides in these situations other than support through social or relationship pressures. I’m not surprised that mothers are at their wits end under normal conditions, but once you factor in the anger and frustration they can’t share with their partners I could see why they have trained it onto others. I can empathize with why you might go to any lengths to protect these types of privileges you are losing.

 The queer or trans “debate” is not the only battleground of classification either. Two topics that are also related are the issue of how racism (and thus race) are classified in “critical race theory” and the other is how reclassification is further affecting white kids ability to get into schools above their peers. For example from this The Atlantic article titled: “Dear Therapist: I’m Worried the College-Admissions Process Is Rigged Against My Son.” whose subtitle is “He has grades and test scores that I think should qualify him for the Ivy League—but he’s also white and upper-middle-class.” While the racism one has caught on in red states as well neither of these topics is as “hot” to attack as gender and sexual identity. I believe this topic has become a direct target because of two reasons. One is that this topic can be easily vocalized by how k-12 kids should be “introduced” to sexuality and gender discussions, and therefore parents think they can control in a targeted way (good luck). The second is that the targets on the other side are much easier to vilify and pick off their allies than other groups. For cis-gender women you could also see how trans women are now seen as trying to “share your space”. Both physically in bathrooms and mentally as your classification as a woman. Attacking these types of targets who have less support and are on the fringe of the LBTQIA+ movement can be debated on a scale that is much larger than any other topic. To cis-gender women these members are an embodiment of the power and privilege that you have lost through these new classifications. It allows you see this type of classifying as a “perversion” of your traditions. This makes it easier to target these groups for you and your followers to attack and deride as evil. Another tangent that I thought about but won’t explore here is how closely tied the idea of “grooming” is to classification. Obviously, this isn’t the only way to react to this situation. As white cis-gender parents generally you could come to terms with the fact that while you are losing some privilege you are coming, only slightly, closer to what other marginalized people have been facing since the dawn of these classifying systems. You can realize that you’re trying to defend ways that your parents were empowered classification and passed that on to you and realize that by defending this position you are still trying to enforce and encourage a system of oppression. You can try to empathize with those you are othering, realizing that all along you grew up as a part of this system that was oppressing them. Rather than defend the old classifying system or join the new system you can join in with the voices of many that are saying both systems aren’t right. This is hard to do. It is difficult to change and more-so fear invoking to take a “radical” approach. It’s much easier to listen to people, especially “level headed” individuals like Joro, when your only other option is to pitch in to support a group that as you point out is asking for their basic rights. Nevertheless it is an option! Again thanks, Natalie for the great video. <3

RamblesAboutStuff

It took me a little while to write this comment because, truth be told, I already watched the video several times! I loved that the tangents helped to inform this video and tie everything neatly in an informative and entertaining bow! I remember that throwaway line in "Gender Critical" (Do you even know who Anita Bryant is?). Back then, my answer was "not a clue" and now I feel I've become an expert and OMG, seeing that whole shitsow unfold and how sure she was to be on the right side of history gives off high JoRo vibes. It's like, every single beat is there, down to a t. I do hope JoRo is gonna watch this video and at the very least think "Hm... Does sound familiar..." Who knows, maybe her takeaway would unironically be that Anita was the real victim. ^^ Anyway, loved it, I feel like I'm gonna watch it again a few times! :-*

Konrad

I think the pettiness is deserved, isn't it? But as much as I don't agree, I understand your point of view

Ollie

him treating Natalie horribly isn't the same thing as him not caring about trans rights, if you look at his channel it's largely advocacy for trans people, he also lives with a trans person and a non-binary person so i do think saying he doesn't care about trans people is pretty uncharitable

Ollie

Great video, loved learning about the Lavender Menace, really cool

Daniel Loizos

At 00:50 Natalie adds her own sound FX. This is super cute and endearing, Also, funny with her megaphone :)

Matt Quigley

This is such an excellent video and the historical perspective it offers is so essential. You quickly shake off your frustration at the suggestion that trans gender identity is a creation of millennials and zoomers, originating on Tumblr, but it is vital to know that this is quite far from a new discussion. I have dedicated a fair amount of time this year to sifting through newspaper archives, particularly those of the NY Times, just consuming coverage of LGBT issues and figures of note, through the ages. The parallel you draw between Rowling and Bryant -- while acknowledging that, of course, Rowling is a whole other level of famous and beloved -- was fairly masterful. Particularly when focusing on the 70s, it's incredible how quickly one learns that nothing being debated now -- nor the ways these matters are being discussed -- is the least bit new. I'll spare you my findings here, but if anyone curious has not already done so, I recommend it. In the NY Times' archive is a treasure trove of discourse and coverage from ages passed, both appalling and shockingly nuanced and sensitive (sometimes in the same article). I will add this. There did seem to be a change in how the Times discussed these matters -- pivoting from smirking mentions of prominent figures from Warhol's Factory scene, and the like, and reporting of various studies drawing widely differing conclusions regarding "transsexualism" -- starting in 1976; this is when tennis pro, Dr. Renée Richards emerged. I'm not going to get into her story for those unfamiliar, but I do recommend Googling her as she's a massively important trans activist (and, not for nothing, her story is evidence that this whole "trans women in sports" discussion is quite far from new, down to the precise nature and shape of the arguments). Indeed, if you search the Times' archive for the term "transsexual" up through, like, 1980, there appears to be no individual or single topic who/that received more coverage. She was local, as was the US Open -- the tournament in which she fought to compete, grabbing headlines while doing so -- which would explain why the Times, in particular, would cover her so much. But she was big time national news. While she was a ranked tennis player, even pre-transition, her day job was as a very successful surgeon. She put her career on hold to take up the fight of being allowed to compete in the woman's division. She was 42, and one prominent argument was that a cis-woman that age would never be as competitive as she. At the time this was probably true, but she hardly dominated the division. It certainly made for a compelling discussion. Regardless, she elected to draw all of this heat and subject herself to this kind of scrutiny in the name of representation and raising awareness. And this shit was nearly 50 years ago, and the woman is very much still alive at 88-years of age. ANYWAY (sorry), the coverage of her, mostly in the Times' sports section, was broadly respectful and supportive, as was the reader response. While I was a literal toddler at the time, Richards was certainly the first trans person of whom I was ever aware. Not only did she receive a lot of news coverage -- much of which was supportive and positive, while also frequently clumsy and inappropriate (YouTube has clips) -- but, as it turned out, my mother and she had been friends when they were both young medical professionals, working at the same NYC hospital. At the age of 5, I was exposed to transness by a mother who absolutely affirmed it and never questioned, or misspoke of, the gender identity of her former colleague. Somehow, it must be noted, this occurred and yet I didn't wind up becoming trans myself. Hmmm, curious that... Holy shit, do I digress (honestly, as a rule, I'm in a constant state of digression)... Of course, the coverage of trans issues in the greater sense was a mixed bag. For example, and this is actually relevant to the video, in 1979 the Times published a wildly trans-invalidating, unabashedly rave review of Janice Raymond's The Transsexual Empire, written by Dr. Thomas Szasz (author of The Myth of Mental Illness, and a quite deep rabbit hole unto himself). Jesus. I'm hitting "post," now that I've typed all of that. My point was really that this video was beautifully argued and executed and provided absolutely invaluable context for the immensely worrying -- and I say this knowing that my worry, as a cis person, is largely vicarious -- time in which we find ourselves. Knowing what fights have come before, what setbacks were faced, what battles were won and lost, what the enemies looked like and how they were ultimately defeated is all essential. Also, final thought... Your description of Dworkin was so spot on. I won't speculate as to the woman's mental health, but I will say that I frequently disagreed with her on a vast array of (most?) topics, but when she was right, she could be so right, and so eloquent in expressing her ideas. Genuine radicals like Dworkin, when they are also gifted in irrefutable ways, can be hugely worthwhile, precisely because the shit they say gets lodged in your brain; even if you're engaged in a heated internal debate with the wacky arguments, they're still in there. People like Dworkin help one to better understand and argue their own beliefs.

Ted Mackey

Intended or not, I liked the thematic pairing of the idée fixe from Symphonie Fantastique – a musical representation of an artist’s obsessive fixation which gradually descends into madness — with Joanne’s monomaniacal obsession with trans people.

Love, In The Form Of Money

This was so fucking good, and other people have absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why. I just want to say thank you for zooming out on these topics, bringing the historical perspective, and for being wise enough to remind people that this is all bigger than JKR. This video was a dose of sanity that I think a lot of people will benefit from. Thanks for being so honest and real about everything around the podcast, the way you handle shit like this is inspiring.

sergio

This video was amazing, as per usual!!! ❤️ Patiently waiting for the Spanish subtitles so I can show my parents asap!!

Thrish Ogden

Excellent video as always. Loved learning so much about feminist history, would pay to listen to Natalie talk for hours and hours!!

Ali

A masterpiece <3

Jo Quigley

I loved the video and honestly your stuff has been good and getting me to calm down about things. My wife will probably appreciate me taking your advice and not sharing the latest horrific tweet. My one critique I'd say is that while I do agree with your overall point at the end... I think that our friends in the UK are in a different situation than we are. They have gone from having a Tory PM who was pretty trans friendly to having Labour abandon them. Rowling herself came up at a SNP Debate which is frankly crazy. Imagine if Donald Trump and Joe Biden were asked at a debate if Dave Chapelle is the greatest comedian of all time on a debate stage. Not that Rowling is the final boss of transphobia anywhere, but I'd argue that the UK has in some ways gone through a more drastic shift on this topic. Rowling is not Graham Linehan... she is someone with much more clout, in a place where Liberal elites have been more quick to abandon trans people. And while we can point to the GOP, DeSantis, and The Daily Wire in the US as clear enemies... the UK situation seems more isolating in some ways. Not really contradicting your point, and I'm also living in North Carolina so what do I know about Brits, but I think there are some nuances in the battles being fought.

Asche Helling

The sheer magnitude of upsetting research this woman has to sit with to digest, integrate, and express this topic (WITH HUMOR SOMEHOW) is astonishing. I would not have the maturity, nor the patience.

sunlit_music

Fantastic and brilliant video, as always!! I agree with Ollie, I loved learning about the Lavender Menace too.

Hugh Manning

slowly getting through this at the pace i can manage emotionally - thanks so much for your work xx

Austin F

i've been thinking about this video for the past few days, and like. not to be parasocial or anything, but i really appreciate your content, natalie, and the biggest reason for it is how much empathy you have, while also not being as spineless as centrist types are. in a political climate dominated by people dunking on each other for retweets and skull emojis in their comment section, it's genuinely really helpful to have someone who's willing to be understanding to a reasonable extent, and not be excessively mean to people for their mistakes, while also shutting down people who are acting in bad faith. i know that sounds like a basic thing to do, but it's surprisingly rare nowadays. as someone who's had the cancel hammer directed at me before (not as big as yours of course, i wasn't trending or anything, but there were at least 200 replies to the 'callout post' about me), i've always felt like a bit of a political outcast. i'm solidly a leftist, but i'm somewhat to the right of leftist internet spaces, and too far left for most people i meet irl. it's lead to people attacking me from all sides for years, and it's made me pretty disillusioned with political discourse in general. it's just nice to have a voice who feels more 'firm but fair' rather than either sinking into constant aggression or showing no convictions at all. someone that would call me out when i was wrong without telling me to unalive myself 1000 times. makes me feel a bit more faith in other people. that said, i know how incredibly depressing doing research on this junk is, so please remember to take care of your own mental well-being. as much as i appreciate the work you're doing, i wouldn't want you to destroy yourself doing it. take care. :)

Edith Cox

I dragged my feet on this, because it didn’t feel urgent to watch you elucidate a point I basically understood. But I saw it was getting good numbers, and I thought “great! Natalie’s message is reaching millions!” But then I looked at my tween kid’s YouTube pages and realized the garbage they watch is doing even bigger numbers, when the content is “among us but it’s just Sonic eating hot dogs”. So now I’m depressed again.

Tristan

Probably the best rebuttal to a bigot I’ve seen and has made me question my approach to old friends whose opinions i try to challenge. One thing i think is important to touch on and missing (or maybe i missed it skipping past that podcasts vile garbage). is how this “trans debate” is promoted so widely by corporations, media, and politicians both left and right. its almost as if they’d rather us question the validity of someone existence than question the economic system that has failed the majority of workers. Fascists have always blamed minority’s for society’s problems so why is it mainstream now to blame the trans movement? why cant ppl see that this “debate” is just another fascist distraction and disregard their vile bigotry. love your work i wish it was shorter or i was better at convincing ppl i care abt to take hours out of their day to educate themselves with your content. I hope this finds you all well n healthy

Caat Xero

nicely done, I look forward to future projects.

Deconstruction Interactive

Excellent video, absolutely excellent. One thing that struck me at the end -- your point about the futility of rational debate is connected to your point about the Bigotry whirlpool. Once someone is in the whirlpool, their whole world view becomes skewed and rational debate simply fails because they're coming from a different view of the world than, say, centrists who like to engage in this rational debate.

An actual, flammable witch

The month I decide I can't afford keeping up Paetreon, the ONE month a witch themed video comes out, I reduce my subscription to the lowest setting. Godfuckdamnit! I know I'm shouting into the void, but IMHO a witch is most defined by its flammability, not the number of people shouting at it. It's a little hard to burn alive inside your home when you have so many palatial estates to choose from and a voice that outspans oceans.

Bouncing Fiji Water

your videos helped me realize i actually enjoy history if its presented in the right way. I've been seeking it out more now and its been fascinating and disturbing how much of it echos into the present. feels more and more essential the more i learn given everything going on. i know it must be exhausting to decide where the line is on how far back you dig, so I wanted to say that regardless of the depth, any level of background is appreciated and valued. thank you.

George Berberian

Absolutely loved your breakdown on everything. I laughed, I cried, and I applauded at your fantastic recitation on the current movement against Trans rights. It's an honor to become a Patreon member of yours!

Rachel Bayston

'I too have no problem with individual jews. It's International Jewry that is the enemy of the Reic- I mean, the, er, existence of our people and the future of our children.' Feels like I've heard this before somewhere?

James Wartell

re: Megan Phelps Roper possibly incomplete conversion and "moral relativism" Megan used to believe in something unethical: "Got hates f*gs." Then she discovered she was wrong, but the lesson she took from it wasn't to switch to an ethical belief: 'I love LGBTQ now!' Instead she decided belief itself is the problem. So instead of moving from lawful evil to good, she just moved to lawful neutral: 'I was wrong once, therefore no one should ever believe in anything too strongly.' Hopefully eventually she tries believing in something that is right instead.

Agusto

Would love to see a video or blog of books on your shelf or films of interest. You reference so many!

Sheogorath's Beard

This was honestly kind of how I left fundamentalism, too. When I first got out, I spent a couple of years really reluctant to totally align myself with any one worldview, choose a side, and advocate for something. Even now, I have had to learn what is appropriate to totally believe in, and what are things that I must be open to changing my mind about as new experiences/data present themselves. Megan needs to decide, at her core, what does she ultimately want to contribute to the world, and what are her own core values. Once those things are established , everything else should fall into place if she's doing things in good faith. And she seems to be. Recovering from brainwashing takes a long time and determination.

Sheogorath's Beard

Wouldn't it have been nice if we had spent more years learning about the last century in school, instead of the American colonies and revolution over and over? At least, that's how things were (and still are) in my school district.

Ruby Valentine

The TERF's and Posie et al as handmaidens - Thank you for this POV, it removes the nasty hateful feelings I harbour (and also wanting to send you video of Posie getting pummeled in NZ - which you've likely already seen a million times) Going back to basics reserving hate for the patriarchy again. Feels nicer hating on that than a human. I mean, all the tomatoes for Posie though. She's cooked.

dandruff

I'm so obsessed with queer history 💕 I'd love hear more about it's parallels with current events. The world is terrifying right now, but it gives me hope that the world will turn back in our favor. Millenials&Zoomers are so overwhelmingly queer. They can't silence us all, especially since many of those with antiquated beliefs are dying off. There are some young bigots, but they're so loud because they're terrified of us. We're radical and futuristic. They're still stuck in their grandparents' childhood.

Gary

Soooo not gonna lie my crazy came out! I got banned from Twitter for 12 hours because I got rude with someone who got rude with you!😹 So much for Elon's free speech bullshit! Nobody fucks with the goddess Natalie Wynn!

Logan Rand

I have been a big fan of all other contrapoints videos, but I really couldn't get into this one. Part of it is just because personally I really seriously need to be done hearing about JK Rowling and don't feel like there's anything more to be gained from talking about her TERF beliefs and continuing to fixate on it just gives her attention she doesn't deserve. So I don't get why another long video on this topic was needed. The drama with Vaush also was really off putting to me. I hadn't heard about it, probably because I'm not on twitter and don't follow his youtube, and I really don't care and just why would you want to bring that up in a video and make it part of your body of work? There were some interesting historical tidbits and I loved the hilarious interjection advertising mail order human meat, but it seemed like the point of the video was to explain how shitty the podcast was and then drag another youtuber. It felt like a departure from the other videos which have way more focused arguments and are so artistically unique. Idk, maybe it's just because production was more rushed on this and it was not a topic I am interested in.

Anouk Jones

Congratulations on the Peabody ! ❤️

Lily Yousefi

The "topic" you are not interested in is currently at the vanguard of one of the biggest social backlashes in recent memory, and J. K. Rowling is one of the biggest (arguably, the most influential) figureheads of this backlash. The podcast reached a lot of people BECAUSE of Rowling's fame and incredible investment in transphobia. If you are not a trans person, not very online and generally oblivious to related news, it's easy to think all of this is unimportant, but well, it isn't.

Logan Rand

I am trans and have been following the growing backlash against trans people. It is personally important to me and the way right wing politics will play out in the near future could be pivotal. So many people are being hurt by every bill. It is agonizing to watch. I am angry and afraid about it all the time, for my vulnerable community members and my teenage nb cousin particularly. So I am not at all saying that responding to anti trans bullies isn't important. I am saying that fixating on JK Rowling endlessly does not seem like the best use of our attention anymore. I was upset, infuriated, and wanted to understand her twisted world view when she first outed herself as a terf and watched the contrapoints video on it multiple times. That was years ago. She is not going to change and she is one figure in a much broader problem. That's why I'm done giving a shit about anything she has to say. I get she is still doing a lot of damage and not everyone is ready to move on, but I was surprised that jkr was worth another full length main channel video, that's all I'm saying.

Ann C

I've watched this and the other JK Rowling video twice, hoping to become better informed about the issues. Like many other cis people, I read Rowling's tweets, and initially, didn't see any significant problems. I feel differently now. Hopefully, I'm better equipped to wade into the conversation to stand up for trans people.

Halcy

You make a nearly 2 hour video feel like 30 minutes, you're just that good. Excellent video and excellent points. 👏 👏👏

Pippa Russell

I really like your tangent videos! Only just subscribed on Patreon, but wanted to send the feedback that they are very well done!

Taťána Baudišová

Late for this, but in my opinion judging from ~vibes~, this one was more personal to Natalie. I sympathise with your point of view - I also thought it odd to suddenly have another JK Rowling video. But then I realised the podcast itself is a personal thing, as she took part in it, and she mentions being done with the current-social-problems videos for a while after this. It feels like the final straw, a sort of catharsis. I absolutely get why you view it this way, I’m sort of over it as well. However it’s still a very good video and I respect the sense of exasperation that I feel behind it.

Debra Girard

I just discovered you on YouTube. Now I just can’t get enough, I just can’t get enough…

Vivek Patel

For every person who makes a threat on twitter, there's a hundred who have no particular opinion of you. When I realised that (and quit most socials), it was freeing - no more careful scrutinising of every tweet reply to make sure the tone is completely inoffensive and the argument bulletproof even though onky two people will see. Idk just surround yourself with people like Natalie, who will call out bullshit but retain shared humanity throughout

Vivek Patel

UK viewer here - it's better and much worse than the US simultaneously. On the one hand, nobody anywhere near the mainstream is calling gay and lesbian people groomers, and your average person on the street might have issues with bathrooms but not the literal existence of trans people. However, where trans people in the US have millions of people in their corner as allies, the culture and politics in the UK means that trans people are kinda left to their own devices. Also given that the economy hasn't really grown in a decade, the UK has this weird, uneasy energy and I feel like people need someone to blame. For most of us, it's the Tory government, but for others it's trans people. Sorry for rambling lol

Vic

The point in the video aside, Vaush doesn't deserve your respect. He's a complete waste of your time.

Natasha Ryan

just had to pull this up again because a lifetime family friend just came back from the uk and immediately recommended the podcast to me.......sent her the video with my fingers crossed

Rose Dombegh

A VERY IMPORTANT note on Tala the alien: complex vertebrates actually can reproduce asexually. Whiptail-lizards lay eggs without fertilization (often after having non-reproductive sex with each other). So "scientifically speaking" Tala the they/them alien is 100% realistic. Except maybe for the aliens part.

Rose Dombegh

Also, for those interested in 'queerness' in the animal world (& how it relates to gay rights in the 1970s & Anita Bryant), Radiolab has a great podcast called "The Seagulls": https://radiolab.org/podcast/seagulls

Sarah Teague!

Also California condors! Who y'know, almost went extinct. Girls, get it together.

Rose Dombegh

Oh my gosh a fellow nerd! I shall investigate the (dissapointing) condors