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Another general poll (Patreon)

Published:
2018-05-24 13:47:14
Edited:
2018-05-24 20:24:04
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Poll

Another general poll

  • You should use RPG Maker MV. 125
  • You should use a visual novel engine. 30
  • You should use Twine. 39
  • You should use RAGS. 29
  • You should use another engine (please mention it in the comments). 2
  • I don't care about the engine used. 86
  • 2018-05-24
  • —2018-06-30
  • 311 votes
{'title': 'Another general poll', 'choices': [{'text': 'You should use RPG Maker MV.', 'votes': 125}, {'text': 'You should use a visual novel engine.', 'votes': 30}, {'text': 'You should use Twine.', 'votes': 39}, {'text': 'You should use RAGS.', 'votes': 29}, {'text': 'You should use another engine (please mention it in the comments).', 'votes': 2}, {'text': "I don't care about the engine used.", 'votes': 86}], 'closes_at': datetime.datetime(2018, 6, 30, 13, 19, 43, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2018, 5, 24, 13, 47, 14, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 311}

Content

Hello everyone! Last public poll was very informative (thanks to anyone who partecipated, by the way), so I figured I'd go for another one. This one is specifically about the future, if people have any preference about the engine. I know probably most people care more about the game itself (maybe trying a demo) than commenting about the engine for said game, but I figure knowing if people care about the engine in general is important.

I think that's enough words for today, so let's get to the poll!

Edit: I meant for future games, not Caliross. I realized the wording wasn't as clear as it could be. XD

Comments

Djunk101

Visually, RPG Maker VX Ace is my preference (MV looks a bit too smooth and loses that GBA-like feel plus I don't like that mouse controls are a thing in them). Twine is probably my favorite format for H games, but I know how good it is depends heavily on the coding ability of the creator (similar to anything really unique in RPG Maker games). Visual novel format only really excels if you have the writing prowess, like AKabur's games (if it weren't for the writing, his games wouldn't be worth the effort it takes to play them). RAGS is just a horrible format in general and from what I hear it's really easy for it to "break" while coding, so I'm against it as choice. I'd probably lean towards RPG Maker the most as those usually make for the most fun games, H content aside.

Scars Unseen

Long term, I think there's more benefit in learning a more general purpose game engine than RPG Maker or a visual novel engine as it removes the limitations that those usually carry(and RAGS lol). Obviously Unity has a lot of resources available, and Unreal Engine is widely supported, but even something like Godot has advantages over RPG Maker if you are willing to take the time to learn it(such as being truly open source).

Scars Unseen

That said, the best tool is the one that gets the results you want, and if VX Ace is doing that for you, there's no reason to change based on someone else's opinion.

Sevetar

While I prefer the functionality of Rpg Maker MV over VX Ace, but my personal opinion (and you probably already know all this from your previous experiences, I just feel like typing), is that before trying to port something to a different platform, you should wrap up all the features/threads you are currently working on. Better to port over something that is working than something half-done so that if things go wrong in the port, you have a functional model to compare to when fixing. Also, do not take the vx ace version down until the version on the new engine is functional/on par with the vx ace version.

Luna

Different engines lend themselves well to different kinds of games so it depends

Fulgrim

My favorite game of yours is still Tales of the Drunken Cowboy, heavy on writing and images so my vote goes for Rags or Twine. RPGmaker inevitably "wastes" a lot of time on walking around which i do not find enjoyable or necessary in porn games and VN's usually lack interactivity (although you've gone above and beyond the engines limitations in all your games, so maybe you'd surprise me ;) )

Alako

I think it depends on what kind of game you are going to make. For example, RPG maker is more visually interactive, but it does make everything a bit too "cute" for my taste and doesn't really fit the style of Tales of the Drunken Cowboy. However, you have excellent development skill and probably can surprise us no matter which engine you choose. I think what you should do is to make an extremely short demo to see which fits your vision the best. (ps...most people here support you because of your new game, so RPG Maker will always be the winner no matter what :P)

mdqp

I guess I didn't really consider VX Ace over MV because the engine itself is better on the developer's end. Do you have any examples I could look for good Twine games you think needed good coding to be made? Just to get an idea. I think I could write a decent game, especially if I didn't have to work within the limitations of RPG Maker as far as text goes, but of course, I can't say I am going to write a masterpiece 100% guaranteed. RAGS has a lot of issues, but it's an engine I know well by now, so I figured I'd mention it. RPG Maker is definitely more flexible, and allows to create more interactive gameplay compared to other engines.

mdqp

It's something I do consider from time to time, but the biggest hurdles are time and budget constraints. It's easier to find cheap/free assets for RPG Maker, and the relatively low-res graphics allow for easier usage and edits (higher fidelity stuff needs more effort to make it look good, or at least not bad). Engines that don't require to write actual code for most of the stuff also allow for faster development, and since I am currently a one man team, that's something to consider as well. Still, I should consider taking a look at Unity (and Godot, I never heard that one before).

mdqp

Oh, this would be for a new game, I wouldn't even try to port this game to MV, it would be pretty much impossible to do properly. No, this is more about future projects after Caliross is a done deal.

mdqp

Well, if I made a Visual Novel, it would probably have a bit of a text adventure gameplay to it (as in, puzzles with items, a map to explore, etc), it wouldn't be a completely linear business. Do you feel like Caliross wastes too much time? I did try to keep maps relatively compact, but I didn't try to go for a completely different gameplay style from the "standard" 2D RPG game. I could probably make something more agile even in RPG Maker, if I wanted to, but it wasn't my starting goal.

Djunk101

I don't know too much about RPG Maker on the developer's side, but I remember hearing from SweGabe that newer versions make things easier if you already know what you're doing but older versions are much more new user friendly/better for learning if you're an amateur. Off the top of my head, Accidental Woman and Hard Times in Hornstown, both of which can be found on TFGamesite. Hornstown actually recently had to start switching engines because they had pushed Twine beyond it's limits with what they had done and it was starting to cause serious lag. Some other somewhat unique Twine stuff on TFGamesite that might be worth giving a look: Life Choices, Psychic Private Eye,Do It for the Band Man, and Choker Change.

mdqp

Well, I think a lot of people know about TOTDC as well, so it's not a given that this is just because they don't know the alternatives. Maybe the best idea would be to make multiple prototypes, to show off my ideas AND the different engines though, so people have a better grasp on what's going on (only one idea per engine, of course, because I don't want to go insane XD).

mdqp

MV has more options, so I guess that makes it already harder to pick up for new people, but honestly the vast majority of the stuff in it is a copy of VX Ace, even down to the interface. I guess older stuff was easier in some regards, but I only know a little bit about XP, nothing prior to that. I know some of these games (although I'll have to take a look to some of the names which are new to me), and I think I could make something similar/better as far as the gameplay goes (I did do some experiments with Twine in the past). I'd probably need to polish my presentation skills, as I didn't pick up good styling in my various tests, since I was just trying to figure out what I could do with the given tools, but I think that could work as a possible engine, if that's the target.

Alako

Oh? I thought we are talking about TOTDC part 2. If not, go wild with your ideas!

Djunk101

I've bought both MV and VX Ace, but I honestly have trouble making heads or tails of their interface. It's not like it comes with instructions (or if it does, they're not in an obvious place). I've heard a big complaint with MV is how it does plugins compared to previous installments. Apparently you can't write them directly using the software, but rather have to find or build them separately and then use the software to put the plugin into the game. Also, to edit them you have to use Notebook rather than the software.

mdqp

That would be one of the game ideas, although I do have my set of headaches for TOTDC 2. Namely, I can't really use images like I used to, if I want to make that game on Patreon (it could even get shut down), and RAGS isn't really a great engine, so I am considering alternatives.

Fulgrim

I think it wastes as little time as possible ;) It's just an engine thing. Props for not having combat, or at least restricting it to dungeons where one would reasonably expect it, though. That one is my major gripe with most RPGmaker porn games (or most RPGmaker games period) that 30mins of meaningful content are always interspaced by 2 hours of killing slimes :P

mdqp

Well, I went from RAGS to RPG Maker, and I just got a more powerful engine with some bizzarre limitations, but the idea was kind of similar. I think it's pretty easy to learn how RPG Maker works, the tooltips help a great deal, although the best would probably be to find a demo without encryption, so you can try stuff out, and then see how they work under the hood and understand how it's done. MV plugins are a bit more flexible, and have some interface you can use even in-engine, so there is that, but yes, to tweak the plugins code you need at least some text-editing software (I personally picked a program named "atom", which makes it easier for me to do quick edits).

Alako

"Namely, I can't really use images like I used to, if I want to make that game on Patreon" That's what all the Patreon money is for. ;D Also, you might find some solution with paid stock photo site for commercial use. "and RAGS isn't really a great engine, so I am considering alternatives" I also think RAGS is very outdated, Twine or QSP player (the Russian engine) are much better alternatives.

mdqp

I am glad to hear it. I did aim to cut down wasted time whenever I could, because exploration is fun only because of what you can find, that's what matters, and I dislike games which pad out the content. I hate random encounters in games, so I carefully avoided them, and I figured it would be better to go for more meaningful battles, by reducing the overall number. I am also slowly working on the combat here and there to make it more interesting, but eventually I'll need to sit down and make a proper effort to improve it.

mdqp

Well, I could use drawings, but it would change the game style drastically. I think an american-comic style would fit nicely with TOTDC, but I do fear the limits of using so few images (I mean, currently I get 3 scenes per month even if things kept growing and I went for, say 5 per month, I could easily outrun the images with the writing, especially since I wouldn't have any assets like I can find for free/cheap for RPG Maker), as well as how people would take the sudden shift from pictures to drawings (or 3D renders), which change the look a great deal. Yeah, I was still working on TOTDC 2 using RAGS in my spare time, but I feel like it might be better to port things over to something else, which is why I haven't done much work on it at all, lately.

Vohk

I would argue for Twine, out of that list, mainly because it lends itself to only bringing along mechanics relevant to the intended game. It seems to be very open to modification, it performs well, doesn't require third party software, and it doesn't have the baggage of more specialized engines. RAGS is just miserable to use and has major performance issues with large games. TOTDC had a lot of engine hangs for me. RPGMaker is great if 20 year old 2D RPG exploration and combat is a key part of your design, but I feel like most games that use it do so mostly because of how accessible it is. You don't even need to roll your own assets to get started. It seems like the easiest framework to give players their own avatar and a fully realized world to run around in, which is no small benefit, but the same time it rarely gets utilized for more than just letting players walk around between text boxes and canned combat. The massive amount of empty space between those interactions is why speedhacks come up so often with RPGMaker. It really comes down to preference and goals. I play for the writing first, the uh.. plot relevant visuals second, and put up with the rest. That makes Twine an easy choice for me.

Scars Unseen

Of the three, Godot would be my choice for a 2D game, partly due to its open, royalty free nature, and partly because it seems to strike a good balance between flexibility and ease of use. It has a built in tile map editor as well as animation tools, and everything is done through nodes, which can have other nodes attached to them in turn. If you want to check that one out, it's website is <a href="https://godotengine.org/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://godotengine.org/</a> Another adult game, Strive for Power, is made using that engine.

Alako

A mixture of 3D renders and drawing might work, there will be limitation, but we will adept and adjust. I guess for most of us here, we enjoy your ideas and words more than picture (it is definitely a good bonus). But whatever you decide, you will have my full support and monthly pizza money. XD I just can't see you failing to make it work on patron.

Exacel

I'm having myself some issues on preferring one engine over the other engine. In many ways I agree with the comment from V. It depends on what you want to achieve and prioritize. Looking at the games you created so far you did well with both RAGS and RPG Maker. That's coding and writing experience that matters in the decision making as well. Both engines offer good options for exploration and surprises. Sadly RAGS hasn't aged well and is another hurdle for new players to overcome too. I don't think going back to it would be a good choice. As for RPG Maker, due to it's graphics it can easily get dismissed, yet it offers rather easy accessibility for both the users and the devs. I've also seen a few games that changed the whole interface in very interesting ways, without loss of the known usability. (Take a look at Lust Doll or Rainy Skies from indivigames). Twine too has all the nice advantages of freedom and accessibility, even more than RPG Maker. To be honest I have been biased against it (and other html based games) for a while, but mostly because I saw too many badly implemented unfinished games that also seemed kind bland. Since then I've encountered two great games though (A Spell For All and The Company). Both are browser based, I'm not sure if they use Twine though. Either way I think you'd also be able to pull this one off. I'd steer away from other VN engines though. I feel they are limiting in their options. Furthermore new players tend to have high graphical expectations when they see such an engine is featured, which might be an issue here.

FigelNarage

I cant even play RAGS anymore, the engine simply refuses to work for me, I screech whenever i see an interesting new game knowing i wont be able to play it :/

mdqp

I can definitely see the argument for Twine, but at that point, going for a visual novel style UI could be better (you can get more or less the same amount of text and "to-the-point" gameplay, but it's easier to have something pleasant on display, and the UI can offer stuff that isn't easily available in Twine, like a backlog, more save slots, built-in CG gallery, etc). RAGS big problems are the performance and the limited UI changes, so I am not too keen on starting a new big game on it, even though I like how it works internally on some stuff. I mean, my game is a weird mix of Zelda-like puzzling/metroidvania progression/old JRPGs combat/CRPGs choices and consequences, and most of it is by design, but honestly just having starting assets and a good framework is already all you need to tell a story AND have as much or as little exploration and world interaction as you want, which is why it was easy to fall into it. We'll see what comes out of my prototypes, once I get them ready, maybe this will confirm your choice. :)

mdqp

I'll definitely take a look. It sounds interesting, but we'll see if it's something I can consider, giving my specific requirements.

mdqp

Oh, I'd never mix 3D and drawings, it would be "either or". I mentioned 3D renders, because they are commonly used, but I like 2D art so much more. 2D is much harder to produce in great numbers, though. I feel like you trust my abilities too much, but I'll try to live up to the hype, nevertheless. XD

mdqp

Yeah, RAGS is really a hassle, as much as I like to work on it, it doesn't seem viable. If\when I work on TOTDC 2, I would still need to update TOTDC to export the variables into text, so that I can be copied inside whatever the new engine will be to continue from chapter 1 (or maybe I should work on adapting TOTDC 1 to the new engine, LOL). That's the only game I am really considering to use RAGS for, since the series started there. Did they convert A Spell For All to Twine? The game existed way before Twine was a thing, I believe, and it just used html. I think The Company uses Twine, though. The point is that Twine and Visual Novel engines do compete in a very similar space, so it's hard to completely discount them, if I start thinking about Twine.

mdqp

Yeah, the engine isn't aging well at all. I mentioned because TOTDC 2 is still on my mind, and the series started in RAGS, after all, but even then I have my doubts about actually working on RAGS again (at least for any important projects).

Polar_Bear

Oh please tell me that this is for some other game besides Caliross. I'm so goddamn tired of creators starting a game in one engine, then, partway through, they're like, "I'm gonna change! It'll be the most fucking awesome thing ever!" and then we get 6-9 goddamn months of "Here's the game you've played a whole tons of times before, but now the ICONS are SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT!!!" Then, just about when they're about to actually start producing new stuff again, it's all, "Well, I'm tired AF of this project. I'm gonna stop here! LOL!" It happens time after time after time after goddamn time. Enough already.

mdqp

It's indeed for the next game, whenever that might happen. Don't worry, I like to screw things up in very straightforward ways, no need to bother porting a game on a new engine for that. XD

Polar_Bear

Well that's a relief! In that case... *looks over the list* Anything but RAGS.

Unsung

Bagool who is making a game called Spanquest switched to Construct 2 for customization/ease of use, but I think it was more code heavy. I think the vision of what gameplay should br would dictate the engine though. You could also do something in Renpy like Kingdom of Deception (not really a programmer, strictly non-technical perspective).

Alako

I was thinking more in terms of 3D background for locations of objects, since that's like half of the imagine in RAGS, but what do I know. You are clearly the expert. I shall trust your judgement. XD

BMinor

Ren'Py is actually pretty powerful.

Hartmanns Youkai

I second taking a look at Kingdom of Deception if you do end up looking into Ren'Py. As someone that just plays the games, doesn't code them, I was not much of a fan at all of Ren'Py (mostly seeing basic visual novels and relatively low-effort games) until I tried that game. Now I know that the engine is definitely able to handle more complex games if you work for it. At the absolute least, it is vastly superior to RAGS. The big downside is that you'd be heavily-dependent on getting a good chunk of art to fill up the screens, which isn't at all easy.

mdqp

It obviously mean you need to cleanse your hard drive with holy fire... :p Does the game crash if you click continue? Sometimes it would just be RAGS spazzing out, sometimes it was the developer's fault, it was never a very useful error warning, unfortunately.

mdqp

I wonder if I should try to convert my old RAGS games to some other format, before I can't play them myself anymore.

mdqp

To an extend, it does depend on what game you want to make, of course, but what really makes a big difference is if your game is meant to have action elements (like platforming, real-time combat) or not. I could make (and I kind of was already doing) a turn-based combat system like RPG Maker in RAGS , I could make a visual novel in RPG Maker, and so on. The hardest one to adapt into a different genre would be Twine, because it's difficult to escape the purely text-based format (not impossible, just annoying), while the easiest one is RPG Maker (is a powerful engine, all things considered). I will definitely take a look at those two games, might make for a good learning experience. :)

mdqp

I am not too fond of what Ren'py is capable of "out of the box", but I should probably take another look at it. I would also give another shot at visual novel maker (although I was disappointed by it) for visual novel-like experiences. If I just wanted to adapt an engine to a different idea, though, I am not sure if I wouldn't pick RPG Maker over the others, as it is more flexible. Well, requiring visuals is a "problem" with almost all engines, in a sense. RPG maker gives me maps for people to play around with, but it's more or less the same idea, just more flexible.

mdqp

I am not sure if I would call it powerful. With the work you need to make good things out of it, you can probably make good things with almost any other engine as well. I'd say it's flexible for sure, though.

mdqp

Well, in RAGS, images almost never mix, so you didn't have a direct contrast between the people and the backgrounds (and it was still a bit jarring, if you paid attention to it). With static 3D rendered backgrounds, I am not sure how well would any 2D art fit with it. I mean, not completely impossible, but not without a LOT of attention to details.

Namerok Shadow

I mean, one reason I find porn games is I'm a huge sucker for RPG Maker Games. Personally, something about them hits me right. I do like visual novels well enough, and they could lend themselves to a dungeon crawl-like gameplay. I also love Twine games... Books? Stories using the Twine engine. A lot of people complain about it being to word-y and don't want to read huge blocks of text, so I'd suggest keep the text per page shorter, and make sure to describe what we are reading well. (Also, personal preference, but using drawn pictures over real-life pictures or 3D model pictures looks a little nicer, if you add images to this) Umm... I think you mentioned it in a previous comment but RAGS is not aging well. I've played some good games with it, but there is also a lot that crashes or doesn't run. IF you want to use this, you will be restricting your audience a lot to people who can get the darn thing running! Are you planning on a concurrent project? Or is Caliross reaching the endpoint you desire soon? Anyways, thank you for everything and have a great day!

FigelNarage

lmao, It literally doesn't even let me play the game :'(

mdqp

I like videogames in general, so porn games are just a way to combine two things I like. XD For all the talks about porn having no plot, I really do need some of that in my porn games, or else things don't capture me, that's why I consider genres which can have a more narrative focus, when needed. RPG Maker makes it easier for me to curate the gameplay aspects, but it makes me suffer a bit in the writing (with MV, I should have a larger message box, so that wouldn't be a problem anymore). I think visual novels work very well for porn games, I have played many over the years with such elements, and some were really cool. I feel Twine is the less impressive of the options, even if you can do some spiffy things with it still. I think text can be abundant, but since it's shown on a web page and not on a book, it does need to be split a bit more (and if you want to make a game, you can't have only descriptions, you need interactions as well). RAGS is old and cranky, but it's my first engine, so I can't help but at least mention it at times like those. XD I plan on finishing Caliross first, but I'd like to get ready for the next game (it can take months to get a new concept ready, I'd like to have things lined up already once I am close to finished with Caliross, so the transition is smooth). If I did find myself able to substain development of two games at the same time, I would do it, it just doesn't seem likely at the moment. It's not like development would suffer too much, but I'd need very clear plans for both, so that I don't risk getting stuck at any point.

Tanner

From the player side, this is a hard question to answer. As you said, for most of us the engine doesn't matter as long as the story is interesting and we can have fun. I would honestly suggest that you stick with the engines that you know best, and have time and experience invested into. As you have worked on Caliross, you have built up a large pool of resources, artwork, code, ect that you can draw on in future games that you produce on this engine. You have also gained experience with all the ins and outs of the RPG Maker system that allow you to draw the most out of it while you are creating new content. All of this allows you to work much faster the next time you decide to create a new game and, more importantly, allows you plan the game production around the advantages and flaws that you already know are in the system you are using. This advanced planning drastically reduces the amount of content that you may want to put in, but have to cut at a latter date due to engine limitations. This results in a higher output of content, in both quality and quantity. That being said, restricting yourself to one engine can also restrict your opportunities to produce different types of content. RPG Maker is great for producing old style RPG's, and allows you a great deal of open world roaming. It is horrible, on the other hand, should you decide to produce content that would be classified as a visual novel. If you decide that your next game is going to be a visual novel, then yes I would encourage you to make the switch from RPG Maker to a visual novel engine. If, however, your next game will an RPG, I would encourage you to stay with the current engine or upgrade to MV. In the end, as much as players may want you to use one engine or another, what we really want is good content, at a sustainable pace, that we can enjoy. In closing, go with the engine that you feel would suit your game the best and will allow you to work with the fewest difficulties.

mdqp

Well, even so, there is a distinct preference for RPG Maker MV, which actually did surprise me a little (I was expecting it to be the second most picked answer, after the "I don't care which engine you use"). It's true that using engines I am already familiar with would speed up the work, and that's worth considering as well. I don't think RPG Maker would be that bad for visual novels, actually, but I'd have to see if there are scripts that allow you to have a backlog and a way to fast skip only text you have already watched once before. I think I'll show off a few prototypes for each game, so people can tell me which one they like the best. I'll use different engines, so people can see both the different concepts and the different platforms I could use.

Tanner

Yeah, I actually looked into the difference with MV. It seems like there are several improvements over the RPG Maker version you are currently using.

David4742

I'm not sure I can vote for a specific engine in a vacuum... it really does depend on the nature of the game. Visual Novels are great for story telling with a heavy emphasis on visuals, but I find they tend to be a bit clunky for any kind of sophisticated gameplay. (Monster Girl Quest comes to mind as one that a lot of gameplay, but even still was limited to few simple formats.) RPG Maker is great if you want to have a good balance of gameplay and plot/storytelling/images, but it does feel like it bogs down a bit with travel between locations (particularly if the travel doesn't have much gameplay involved.) RAGS is great for story-heavy games that want more gameplay than your typical visual novel, but the exploration and interface make it hard to really conceptualize areas (thought that might just be me).... I've had RAGS games where giant forests and small buildings felt equally large because of the interface. TWINE is great for stuff where the primary gameplay is based around choices... for anything more involved, it works, but I can't help but feel like other engines might work better. If it's a game where combat is going to be particularly involved, I'm always going to vote for RPG Maker. I'd definitely be interested in seeing concepts or prototypes of what you had in mind, though.

mdqp

I have similar impressions of the engines, but I figured this would be a good start to see if people had any particular leanings, and to listen to people's opinions in the comments so that maybe I could learn about a new engine, or consider other aspects in the ones I know. I think I will be preparing at least a couple of prototypes in the near future. I already have a good idea for the RPG Maker one and the visual novel, it's just matter of finding the time (and familiarizing myself with the visual novel engines, since I don't have much experience with those). I am also very conflicted because I'd like to work on the sequel for TOTDC, but it's hard to imagine how I could make it work in a "Patreon-friendly" way, and that's bothering me a lot. We'll see, though.