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EXCLUSIVE EPISODE: Azula vs. Katara and the Power of Choice in Avatar: The Last Airbender (Patreon)

Published:
2024-03-19 14:00:08
Edited:
2024-03-19 22:16:40
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

How do Azula and Katara's choices affect how they wield their power?

In this Patreon-exclusive episode, licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are comparing and contrasting Azula and Katara from Avatar: The Last Airbender. They’re taking a look at who they are as characters and what they choose to do with their power. And they compare the relationships and personal journeys each character experiences. Jonathan breaks down feelings vs. behaviors and why we should embrace feeling all the feelings. Does Azula have the best mean girl lines?

Support us!Merch: https://store.dftba.com/collections/cinema-therapyInternet Dads Popcorn: http://ctpopcorn.comCinema Therapy is:Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan SeawrightProduced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne DemyanovichEdited by: Emily ColtonDirector of Photography: Bradley OlsenEnglish Transcription by: Anna PreisConnect with us!Website: https://www.thecinematherapy.comDiscord: https://discord.gg/NmbFhr8tfuInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/therapy_cinemaThreads: https://www.threads.net/@therapy_cinemaTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@therapy_cinemaTwitter: https://twitter.com/therapy_cinemaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/therapycinema

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Comments

Paradigm Dad

YES!!! More Avatar content. We are not worthy of this but please don’t stop lol

Wayward Ace

Squee!! Another Avatar episode and some focus in Azula! I mean, Katara is awesome too of course, but Azula!!!

Erin n Stefan

How dare you hit me with more Avatar content so soon after I’m recovering from Iroh! Azula’s raw power and fury is so intoxicating when you watch. That moment she’s chained up and it’s just throwing angry fire as far as she can, it’s like a force of the universe was chained up. She’s terrifying. While Katara is so powerful but is such a gentle person, always moving toward supporting and healing others. She just has a totally different view of life and her own place in the world. She’s not hungry for power and destruction the way Azula is. I think Azula is incredibly powerful, intelligent and talented; but all her worst qualities… of comparison and demeaning those who can’t compete, might makes right, cruelty is warranted when the target “deserves” it… these were all encouraged and reinforced from the time she was born. But also those things are not the same between Zuko and Azula, raised in the same home. There is something particular about Azula that made it so she can’t have a good moral center, because Zuko was able to receive and return genuine love to others in a way she seems unable to do. He has an openness to kindness and friendship, she only wants those who will serve her ego in the way she wants. She manipulates and controls others and it’s “something she’s born with” that made her take these lessons as truth instead of those that Zuko took to heart. It’s just such an interesting character study to me. I love it!! -Erin

Raiyu Lilliputian

Reference from captain America. “A strong man who has know strength all their lives loses respect for that power. But a weak man loses value in strength and knows compassion.”

Stefan and Erin S
>>132768037

Also just the synchronicity of the universe that I was rewatching the Iroh episode when I got notified of this one. You guys know how to feed me 🤣 my in laws were visiting and just left this morning so now I can really relax with the content, it feels so nice. I’ve been grabbing fragments here and there for like five days 😅 I WANT A TOPH DEEP DIVE TOO. AND SOKKA. They are my most loved characters. -Erin

AlicetheNeko

I think Katara’s defining moment was the Southern Raiders episode. She could have gotten revenge as she stared her mother’s killer in the face, but she chose not to.

Holly✌️

Ah, the internet dads delivering yet another terrific episode! I know you mentioned Legends of Korra. I don't love it. I have not been able to finish the series, but I definitely have watched Avatar multiple times

Davidlee S

Two ATLA videos back to back, you guys are spoiling us! Thank you <3

Tichael Murner

Well gee, Alan, you've gone and made me cry for Azula. When you said she was sick, needed help, and she never got it and that her defeat is a tragedy, not a triumph...that just got me.

Josh Jones

Beautiful thanks for another ATLA next one you should do Toph or sokka

Timo

You guys talking about Avatar has become one of my favorite things

SinforGoblinJesusSlobadwhodiedforthosesins

I love this episode, and it's one of the reasons I talked about the live action vs. this version on my podcast. Katara was such a flat nothing character in the live action. Azula had daddy issues for some reason. It's amazing how a live action that was meant to be "More mature" was somehow more childishly written. As an author in progress, this show is such a great example of character writing. And they massacred those stories in the live action. Thank you guys for the continued amazing content!

Blitz Cam
>>132768037

Maybe there could be a way to compare both Toph and Sokka. Sokka learning strength from being a non bender surrounded by benders, and Toph being an amazing powerful bender learning to be a leader when being raised as a kid, she was always seen as weak for being blind. So yeah maybe something like the portrayal of strength/leading with/without bending, or something similar. Well that's my first thought. Maybe there isn't as much to link their characters, or maybe there could be something else.

Roberta Macias

I absolutely loved this episode too! I have always loved the juxtaposition that this show plays on. It really shows you layers and layers of the laws of duality. The dichotomy between Aang/Zuko, Katari/Azula, and Iroh/Ozai are beautiful examples of moral/ethical extremes within a person and within interpersonal relationships. A great visual representation of "One must master themselves before they can master the Universe."

Hikari Yamato

When I first watched Avatar back when it first came out, I thought Katara was overly naive in her morality and view. But as I grew up and ended up rewatching it multiple times, every time Katara continues to grow on me, and I take on more and more of her sense of morality as my own. She sees the fear in people and use it to change things for the betterment of everyone. Azula sees the fear in people and use it to change things for the betterment of herself. Azula needs help, have been screaming for it her entire life. But because she was told from a young age “power is just” she’s internalized it to the extreme and has even made her only true friends in her life turn against her for their own personal wellbeing. They all tried to detox her, but her truth was so ingrained that she turned feral.

Blitz Cam
>>132770938

I really think what Aang said to Katara early in the episode helped her decide to not choose violence/death when the opportunity presented itself. Katara/Zuko attacked the ships and Katara didn't hesitate to bloodbend to get revenge. If it was the man who killed her mother there, maybe she didn't give herself enough time to think on her actions before choosing what she really wanted. Katara was very mean/angry in the beginning of the episode. She told Sokka, 'Maybe you didn't love our mother like I did,' when he mentioned the option of not killing him. Aang compared Katara a bit to Jet, then Katara responded, "I'm not Jet. Jet attacked the innocent. But this man is a monster." [quotes I think are only somewhat accurate, I've seen the show enough times to know many moments somewhat from memory.] Here's an important quotes that I think are general enough to relate to many people(both Azula and Katara at least.) Aang : "The monks used to say that revenge is like a two-headed rat viper. While you watch your enemy go down, you're being poisoned yourself." (I think if Katara had chosen to kill the man who killed her mom, she would then be poisoned, and over time it would just get worse and worse. Not sure how true it is in real life but I'd imagine once you take a life, it then becomes an option to consider again in the future, even if only again as a way for revenge, each time being worse than the last. And for Azula, she became worse with each friend/ally she removed from her life over time, until she eventually broke down from the pain.)

Nova Villmark

This kind of content is exactly why I joined Patreon!

Rena Nice

This is great! I hope you do more shows like this

Blitz Cam

This is maybe one of my favorite quotes from an anime, Death Note. I've seen how it can relate to many characters from different anime, and can extend to other shows like ATLA too. Azula mentions her mom thought of her as a monster, but later on she accepts the role of a monster. “There are many types of monsters that scare me: Monsters who cause trouble without showing themselves, monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood... and then, monsters who tell nothing but lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance: They are much more cunning than others. They pose as humans even though they have no understanding of the human heart; they eat even though they've never experienced hunger; they study even though they have no interest in academics; they seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such monsters, I would likely be eaten by them... because in truth, I am that monster.” ― L

Ezekiel Matzen

The thing I just noticed here, Azula's mother truly loved her but was worried. And when she starts to slip we see manifestations of her self worth in the form of her mother who saw her worth beyond the power.

Roberta Macias
>>132779926

I totally agree with you on this. They also made Aang and Sokka out to be way too serious...And abridging episodes to quicken the story along muddled and conflated certain lessons and totally misinterpreted others. I can understand why the original creators backed out.

Smidge

Jono bitterly snarfing down PB Chocolate, a known comfort food for him, in popcorn form: "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!"

tropetweeter

I think we can all picture one particular self-loather with bad spray tan when Jono talks about people like Azula, and everything said about her applies to him, too, but I like how Jono just spread it to all people of that particular stripe. “I’ve yet to meet someone who treats people like Azula does who loves themselves.”

Jazmine Harper

"Emotions just are" reminded me of a longer quote, which might even have come from you a year ago, I sometimes forget to source in my scrapbook where quotes that I like come from after all. "I can disagree with your words, I can disagree with your thinking, and I can disagree with your behaviour but there is really no way to disagree with an emotion because an emotion is just is."

Amelie W

I think Azula has been trained to act like a narcissistic psychopath to fit in with the Fire Nation's classic fascist society, that values her extraordinary athletic skills as much as her apparent loathing of weakness and lack of human compassion; but seeing how badly it ultimately works for her, I wonder if it is just an act. For most people - anyone with a history of violence can tell you this - hurting people hurts you as well. (As you mention, people who treat others badly are never happier with themselves.) That's just to say at the end of the show I think it's entirely possible she's in a good place to begin learning to care about other people and become a healthy happy member of society

Gloria Vargas

I just watched this with my dog appa🤍THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE AVATAR EPISODES 😭🤍🤍🤍

Gloria Vargas

You guys should definitely check out Michaelas Jill Murphy YouTube channel, she’s the voice of Toph and she does these episodes “Tea time with Toph” and brings out some of the cast to drink tea and watch ATLA 🤍

Reylomemes

16:33 A Homelander episode is a must! Maybe a compare and contrast between him and Billy.

J

Azula is always looking for her father’s approval and not fail like zuko. Having to be perfect nobody is born a “monster “

J

People acting like ursa was a perfect mother is ridiculous. Azula never thought her mother loved her and she decided to look up to ozai because of her talent got attention from him.

Zara Hoffman
>>132797453

In the post-show comics, though, she's still kind of like that. I think the journey is a long one to deprogram herself from that and it hasn't happened yet.

Zara Hoffman

I disagree with the nature vs nurture argument in THIS video. Katara had 2 loving parents but one was murdered. Azula felt like her mother didn't actually love her and had a psychopath for a father who fueled her worst/sociopathic traits. Katara had + and + while Azula had + and -.

Nelly Stein

I'd like it if you would do more Videos about the Avatar characters because I really enjoy watching them. (also LOVE the series). About Azulas relationship with her mother I always thought the szene when Ursa says "What's wrong with that child" always sounded kind weird because she refers to Azula as "that child" and adding the word "wrong" does support what Azula said at the beach "My mother thought I was a monster". Addint to that the series makes it pretty clear that Ursa was a lot closer to Zuko. This doesn't mean that Ursa was a bad mother or she didn't like her. As Jono said she was concerned about her and loved her. But when Azula heard her mother asking this question to herself it makes sense that she thinks that way and got hurt. And because she did not get any approval from her mother or didn't have this closeness (compared to Zuko and Ursa) she was more focussed on her father who just saw her potential and her great skills as a firebender. (thats just my opinion added to the Azulas parents topic). Thanks for your Videos, I really enjoy them.

2eTherapyJamie

The newer CMHC education books are pushing the epigenetic view to move on from the nature versus nurture dichotomy, and I feel like the comparison of the various siblings fits with that really well. I’m also now super motivated to finish the OG series because this was fantastic!

Brandon Payne

Would you also say that Azula has Antisocial personality disorder?

Brandon Payne

Can you do a villains therapy for Azula?

Bakks
>>132804654

I agree, if we look at the relationships with their primary ‘caregivers’, they tell very different stories. You can argue that Hakoda and/or GranGran are Katara’s primary caregivers, and they instill her with integrity, honesty and compassion. In contrast, Azula’s primary caregiver, Ozai, has taught her conditional love - she must achieve, excel and win to be of any worth. Katara and Azula seem to have been raised with two very different value systems, which explains how they choose to use their gifts and treat others.

dpfw

So you're telling me that because Zuko confronted Ozai in his war room, instead of receiving a scolding he received a scalding.

Kate Ackerley
>>132782862

I love Death Note! It has so much psychological depth... it's an animé (so better in many ways) version of Sherlock vs. Moriarty but with many ethical and moral dilemmas that just make it such a rich series. I love ATLA more but that's just like a personal choice, I think they're both almost perfectly written series and those are hard to come by.

Kate Ackerley

I love how a "kid's show" nailed the powerful-woman-leader-who-distrusts-everyone-and-was-betrayed-by-her-most-trusted-close-ones-slowly-sliding-into-madness character arc way better than Game of Thrones did... Writing is everything.

Blitz Cam
>>132782862

There are some similar anime, but yeah not exactly the same. If you liked Death Note, I'd highly recommend Monster, it's really dark at some points, and is definitely one of the most 'real' anime I've seen.

Hannah Rose 🥀🎵

They could have chosen to make a Azula, a pure cartoon villain. Instead, they chose to give her dimension and a backstory of why she is the way she is. By the end, you still think what she does is awful, but you still feel horrible for her. I mean the pain she is feeling in that last episode. I have so much respect for the writers and animators, and sound designers, and artists who worked on the show.

Lisa C

What a great new pair of ATLA episodes! 👂 Heard Alan say that you guys haven’t watched Legend of Korra, hope you guys do 😁 I liked it as a counterpart to Aang and his journey as Korra and Aang are on opposite paths (similar to Katniss and Lucy in Hunger Games franchise), and Korra encounters opposite issues in her journey. My son and I have hope for the live action ATLA since they got approved for seasons 2 and 3, that they can make it better; it’s been okay watching season 1. Thanks again for diving into this tv series! 📺

Katharine Kroeber-Wiley

There are so, so, SO many things to admire and love in AtLA. One of the absolute best, imho, is in "The Southern Raiders" how Katara does *not* forgive the man who killed her mother. That episode, in a show for kids, has one of the most mature and sophisticated demonstrations of what forgiveness is and is not. It is a choice, but it's not a switch one throws and suddenly, poof! Insta-forgiveness! Forgiveness does not magically wipe out all the hurt and pain and broken trust. It's a choice to undertake a process of healing, and creating a new relationship, based in part on the reality that one person was hurt and another person committed the hurt. Her turning to Zuko and saying, "but I think I *am* ready to forgive you" is so powerful and moving because we've seen the process, and we've seen how the moment is *earned*, by the characters and by the writers of the show. And it gets more weight, I think, from Katara not forgiving the murderer but also choosing not to harm him. Not-forgiving does not automatically mean violence and vengeance. What a way to show kids (and any adults wise enough to be watching!) what maturity really looks like.

Katharine Kroeber-Wiley

Also, thank you so much for doing all these AtLA episodes when your main focus is movies. AtLA is just so good, it deserves the attention of you two wonderful guys.

Day Hefner

Thank you so much for all the ATLA episodes!! I love the deep dives into the characters and the discussion of what makes this such an incredible show. I hope you do watch Korra! It’s polarizing among Avatar fans, and I’ll admit that I really didn’t care for it at first — but I have totally grown to love it. Seasons 3 and 4 especially offer a surprisingly realistic portrayal of post-traumatic stress; and as someone who’s spent the last several years working on healing from trauma, Korra’s breakthrough into healing is one of the most cathartic things I’ve ever watched. LoK definitely has its flaws, but it’s worth watching!

Nova Villmark

Korra was set to only be funded for one season (or something similar) so it takes a little longer to get going. Then it was funded for several seasons and then becomes another beautiful show that's unique all on its own. Same folks did The Dragon Prince on Netflix (still being made) that is ALSO fantastic, in a completely different world but with some nods to ATLA in the jokes. (They share at least one voice actor)

Anna Godlewski

Honestly kind of disagree with you guys’ point about Azula being born (at least partially) evil. Her mother didn’t physically abandon her, but she definitely did emotionally. I’m sure it was clear to her that her mother favored Zuko and thought she was a monster (more than in a look of concern way). I think Azula is a perfect example of what can happen when you don’t have ANY positive role models (Ursa, Iroh) who will help you and how you can adapt to be like your abusers when that’s all you see. It can shape you into a person you don’t like. A leading theory as to why she broke down in the end was because her friends mirrored what happened with her mother and she just couldn’t handle that abandonment again. It is so sad to think about and definitely makes me feel for her.

Corina Strößner

I think the difference is also learning from models. Katara is born into a family where people care for each other. Azula gets some love from her mom, but her family members betray each other all the time and plot against each other. She witnesses assassination plans and intrigues and adapts to her environment perfectly. By being excluded from the clan, Iroh and later Zuko have a chance to take a different path. It is not to imply that Azula is not to blame for her terrible choices, but I think we should really put her in this context. We should be aware of not only how we treat our kids, but also how we treat each other in front of them. A German joky proverb goes like: education of children is pointless. They become like their parents anyway. I think that is the problem with Ursa's influence on her kids.

Hello there

Man I really need to start watching Avatar.

Chloe lynn

Wow this video really made me appreciate how clever the writers of this show were. They wrote so many parallels between Zuko and Aang that were the backbone of the story, but I didn't even realize just how many parallels there were between Azula and Katara. I absolutely love when Jono mentioned the Dumbledore line about how it's our choices that define us not our abilities. I think what Jono was saying also about how this show addresses the theme of nature vs. nurture came back in S3E6 "The Avatar and the Firelord." Toph's line where she says "It's like these people were born bad!" and Aang's rebuttal about how that's not true and how it boils down to choice can be applied to Azula and Katara as well.

Michael Jones

Azula's breakdown after Katara defeats her is legitimately hard to watch. She is just a kid, but she's so broken and hurt. And while there was certainly some nature in there, there's also a crap ton of nurture, where her father actively fostered her worst impulses. She didn't get there on her own, and seeing the result of all that anger and abuse finally leading to a helpless primal scream... it's hard to see.

kita mo

I grew up with a terrible and narcissistic father and I feel seeing azula as a child helped me see that dad isn't always right cuz when his right hurts others it's wrong 😭

Sydney Ozuna

Watching this and seeing y’all talk about these characters’ upbringings made me wonder — what would have happened if Katara and Azula had been born into opposite circumstances? I think Katara born into Azula’s family would have turned out like a hybrid between Azula and Zuko — having an inherent level of compassion that makes it difficult to fit into her family mold like Zuko, but being naturally talented and likable such that she probably would have ended up alright-ish. Azula born into Katara’s family probably would still be an overachiever and have a bit of a bratty streak, but I think it’s something that would not have been fostered so heavily by those around her, such that she likely would have mostly grown out of it, so more like Toph honestly.

Sydney Ozuna
>>132947233

Yes! The number 1 thing is wished they’d touched on more is how these are her choices, but for a lot of people and ESPECIALLY kids and teens, choices are inherited and passed down. I also wished they’d kind of talked about the golden child dynamic, where when you’re in a family that puts people in the family system against each other, if you’re the chosen “good one” a lot of kids will cling to that role out of fear of repercussions they see happen to the other family members (like watching zuko get literally assaulted and banished)

Paula Shin

This episode helped me understand my mother better. She treated me good but I never felt at ease with her. Turns out, when I got older, I actually understood how manipulative it was and why I never felt her love fully. It was performative, cause it always came with a condition. My father on the other hand, loved me unconditionally, even through his mistakes, I always felt at ease with him. Tho my relationship with my mother is still not the best, I now see that she was hurting... She didn't love herself and she protected herself through her manipulations. I still dont know how to sit with this, but I believe seeing this is a start haha May this help me heal things through with her over time. Thanks for the great work again <3

Aki Shinon

Something that’s so great about this show is that even as a child watching this seeing Azusa hurt made me sad. I always remember being really sad during that fight and I never really understood why till I got older but it’s so incredible that they got these messages across to us even as kids we understood on some level what was going on. The beach episode was one that always made me think of my own childhood some of the score brings back memories that make me emotional because of how happy they were. This show is amazinf

JediDr

This just reminds me of Sirius Black talking to Harry and saying there’s light and dark in all of us, what matters is the part we choose to act on. You guys are amazing! Combining my two favorite things, cinema and psychology.

Dresden

This was amazing, thank you for this! Would've loved to see their reactions to the comics since Azula goes all over the place there. She goes even further off the deep end, then ends up supporting Zuko while also wanting to mold him, and even goes through a bit of a redeeming experience in the spirit temple issueand grows as a person.

KC Audio with Kim Carter

I loved you guys failing all over the place at the end 🤣 Thanks for leaving that in

Quinn Anne ASMR

Once again another brilliant episode. The whole part of "without the anger who am I?" Hit me so damn hard. Because foe YEARS I struggled so hard with my mental health, I was akin to Azula. I hurt some very important people in my life as much as i was hurt. But through choices and deciding I didn't WANT that, i feel I have slowly, painfully but amazingly have become Katara. At least that's my goal. We choose our paths you are absolutely right. But I am so damn fortunate that I had supports that stuck with me through these horrendous, painful times in my life, much like Katara. While yes, the work was mine and mine alone, and yes I am damn proud of that, there was no way I could have done that without those supports. By the end of the show my heart breaks for Azula because she never had that. And that's utterly heartbreaking

KimCarter
>>133697588

Brand new. Oh, we’re in the same community, I assume? (Sorry if we’ve met, and I’m blanking!)

KevWritesSometimes

I think it's important to remember that Azula was 14 YEARS OLD by the end of the series! She was LITERALLY a child! I agree so much w what Jono said about Azula not loving herself. But I'd add that the love she has for herself was conditional. She was raised in a culture and household that had very strict and very high expectations. She was lucky enough to always meet or exceed those expectations, but even when you're a prodigy, you eventually fail. Her breakdown at failing shows how self-love can't be conditional because you can't guarantee that you'll always meet those conditions

Alex Boynton

you guys need to do a couples therapy on aang and katara.

taylor garrett

I love Korra!! You got to do a Korra episode. Please

Judah David
>>136351581

I think it would be great to see them analyze Korra's journey, especially after Zaheer, and I would love for them to talk about the Equalists and the Red Lotus, both of whom had some valid points executed poorly.

Tyra M.

This might be a little long winded but I think that there are some things that are being overlooked about azula’s parental figures that are jading your perspective of her “nature”. We mostly only see Ursa in flashbacks from Zuko’s perspective but even in those flashbacks Ursa isn’t showing Azula the same unconditional love that she shows Zuko and this is because it’s easier for Ursa to parent Zuko than Azula. As a reminder Azula is 2 years younger than Zuko. So in that flashback where young Azula is shown to be very cruel and callous she’s only about ~8 years old. At such a young age, Ursa shouldn’t be questioning “what is wrong with my child” the question should be “where am I failing as a parent to this child”. Zuko and Azula both had one parent who praised them and one parent who was disappointed in them. The dichotomy between the two characters stems on which parent they received praise from. Ursa shows Zuko love & praise, which causes for Zuko to value kindness and compassion since that’s what Ursa values. Ozai shows Azula affection & praise which causes Azula to value power and cruelty because that’s what Ozai values. I know in the beach scene Azula is making a joke about Ursa thinking she’s a monster but truthfully her mothers rejection really hurts her. We can see that in the finale when she envisions her mother during her mental breakdown. Her mother is a figment of azula’s imagination in that scene. But even in her own imagination azula can’t accept a reality where her mother might actually love her, and it’s why she breaks the mirror and calls her mother a liar. Now I’m not saying that Ursa didn’t love azula but she clearly wasn’t able to convey her love in a way that resonated with Azula especially since even at 14 Azula can’t fathom the idea or belief that her mother loved her. Part of parenting is adapting to each child’s needs. Ursa was able to show love to Zuko because he was very compassionate at a young age. Truthfully the main reason Zuko is more compassionate is because the negative and cruel influence within the household (Ozai) doesn’t take as much as an interest in Zuko so he is mostly influenced by Ursa. Azula starting to show cruelty at a young age and Ursa while reprimands Azula is just repeating the sentiments of Ozai. Ozai talked about Iroh being weak and how he should be the next firelord instead of Iroh. When Azula repeats this messaging Ursa scolds her for it but the real problem is Ozai, not Azula. Azula at a young and impressionable age can only see that her mother hates her for the things her father loves about her. One of the reasons that leads to Azula becoming this horrible person is because Azula starts to only value Ozai because he’s the parent that shows her tangible affection. In that quest she starts to only value the things that Ozai values, and she builds her relationships with people in the same way. Despite Ozai being the only parent that Azula thinks loves her that relationship is also built on fear. She proceeds to build her friendships the same way, with fear. It’s why it’s so hard for her when ty lee & mai “betray” her because in her mind fear and love go hand in hand. If we only view Ursa as a mother through Zukos perspective then yes she was this perfect mother who showed unconditional love. But the reality is Ursa was married to a horrible and cruel person and unfortunately due to those circumstances she only really could intervene on Zuko’s behalf because he was already being rejected by Ozai. However, in doing so it meant that she gave up on trying to protect Azula because it would mean defying Ozai. Which unfortunately led to Azula becoming just like her father. I think it’s easy to just chalk up Azula to being evil by nature but the message that ATLA always tries to convey is that you’re never one thing and who you are can be influenced and changed. I think it’s unfair to acknowledge how Ozai left Zuko broken without also acknowledging that both Ozai AND Ursa left Azula broken.

Sydney Amell

Yes! To all of this! BUT ALSO Another thing to point out is that Azula watched what happened to Zuko. So, not only is she being praised for certain behaviors by a person who models those behaviors (and like Alan and Jono said, she actually is a prodigy and some of her narcissism stems from that skill and the praise she received for that), she also has a vicious reminder of what NOT being on the pedestal looks like. Like, she can want her mother's love all day long, but having Ursa's love didn't prevent Zuko's public burning and banishment. They ended the video by saying that Katara made different choices than Azula, but that's assuming that Azula had the opportunity to make them or had the choices in the first place. Zuko could change because he was safe on a ship far away where Ozai didn't care (not that Zuko knew that until way later but that's not the point). Azula, the prodigy and heir can't just say f this–he would definitely want her back in line. So, she's being conditioned for x behavior, and if she doesn't follow along then her face gets burned off. That's not much of a choice. (I do also wish Alan and Jono had gone more into their similarities but I get that that wasn't the point of the video per se)

rara
>>138628210

omg thank y'all for expanding on this. I've always thought these things and had this view on Azula, but the discourse on her is a little rigid ? imo... lol. People really see her as straight up evil to the core. I think a part of that is Iroh kind of affirms that, and says she needs to go down, which to be honest, is what is needed at the time, but it's the one thing he says that I feel was slightly reductive... I always thought that Zuko had it better than Azula, because he actually had the opportunity to GET AWAY. not discounting the pain he went though, being banished was the best thing that could've happened for him. but Azula never got such an opportunity, which only engrained those conditioned behaviors even more for her, cementing her position as eviL girl. but that's also a huge theme in ATLA - that no one is truly evil or good, but everyone is equally capable of both good and evil actions. We see this in the flashback episode with Sozin and Roku. anyway....... I also think she gets adultified like cRAZY. I don't really understand how people see her in that way when she is literally 14 and hasn't really even had the opportunity to think for herself... Azula isn't "evil" to me, she's tragic.

Tyra Martinez
>>138628210

I agree so much! The parentification of her character is something that isn’t talked about enough. In so many analyses of the show, people acknowledge how young Aang and everyone else are but that same sentiment isn’t really discussed when it comes to Azula. I do agree her story is tragic and there are so many nuanced scenes that show how Azula wasn’t really being parented or guided. Even the scene where zuko throw the bread at the turtle duck. He starts that scene with the sentence “do you want to see how azula feeds the turtleducks”. As a parent it should be alarming to know that your very young child (azula) is displaying aggression and violence towards innocent animals. I always viewed Zuko and azulas stories as parallel. Zuko was banished around 13-14 which is the same age as Azula when we first meet her. Azula is the representation of what would have happened to Zuko if he wasn’t banished. Ozai would have continued to manipulate his children for his cause. Even in the finale Ozai is manipulating Azula by telling her she will be firelord. Something that isn’t really discussed, is how important that conversation is in revealing the dynamics. Firstly, he gives Azula the title of firelord but then states he will be the supreme ruler. Which means that if Ozai won, he would still be the person in charge. The title is meaningless in Ozai vision of the future. It’s just a way to control her. Secondly, Azula’s outburst about being treated like Zuko shows how much of her character is based on pleasing her father. She recognizes that if she doesn’t live up to his standards she will also be treated horribly by her father. Her biggest fear is for her father to treat her the same way he treats Zuko. For almost the entire show Zuko and Azula had the same goal: pleasing Ozai. They are driven by the same cause, however Azula has always been more successful at pleasing Ozai. The difference is that Zuko had other people in his life that were supportive and caring. Truthfully by the end of the show Zuko takes all his energy to pleasing Ozai into trying to please Iroh. Azula doesn’t have the same luxury. There is no one else in her life that cares enough about her for her to shift loyalties. I never thought about it much before you commented, but it’s really weird that Iroh only seems to care about Zuko and doesn’t even try to help Azula.

rara
>>138628210

Omg i hear you . That makes a lot of sense . Like children, even adults in abusive situations really only have the ability to escape them through their actions if there is enough support on the outside to create a sense of hope / safety. Azula doesn’t f know what’s safe dog. She doesn’t have that support to even understand that her experiences are unsafe . Zuko ONLY learns that by deprogramming while he is AWAY from Ozai around A SAFE caretaker, Iroh . She is literally constantly under threat, u’re so right. Thats crazy about how they’re are both trying to please Ozai but she is just more successful at it :/ bc she has more of what he wants. Not because of HER but her talents/assets he takes interest in for his own personal f greed, and she is ultimately so much worse off because of that…… yea dang . And honestly I dont really understand Iroh’s position on Azula ¯\_(>_<)_/¯

Tyra Martinez
>>138628210

I just wanted to update you on a recent thought I’ve had with azula. I watch a bunch of reaction channels and I find that a lot of men are very quick to call azula an evil b*tch or worse. I watched one channel that got to the Zuko alone episode and afterwards the guys came to the same conclusion that she’s just an evil b*tch. But funny enough in the first season they kept trying to give Ozai the benefit of the doubt in the storm episode. They said things like maybe he’s more complex and trying to help Zuko grow up but just about it the wrong way. I have felt for a long time that if azula was a boy and not a girl, more people would be able to recognize that she’s a product of her environment. And that just solidified it for me. Because I can’t understand how you can rationalize Ozai burning his 13 year old son but not be able to see any depth to azulas character.

Tyra Martinez
>>138628210

No I haven’t but I will definitely check it out! And I agree. I love Zuko and I’m so incredibly glad that he was able to be saved and come out to be a better man. However, Zuko 100% turned out to be the lucky sibling. Also since this thread I’ve decided to rewatch some of my favorite episodes of the series, and something occurred to me in the episode we find out that Roku was Ursas grandfather. Throughout the show they did a lot of for shadowing of Zuko having to battle two sides of himself and Iroh points out it’s because he is the legacy of both Roku and Sozin. Azula is also that legacy. Wouldn’t she have the same internal battle?

Thursday

Fun fact about the mouth foaming guy: He is Suki's Ex

Murder Turtle

Actually, I'm not sure Ozai would have only scolded Zuko if he'd spoken out in private. Yes, it was an act of disrespect in front of the war council, But Ozai considered Zuko's protest to be one of weakness. He's advocating against needless violence. Azula is advocating for it, which is acceptable. Her defiance is one that he can tolerate because it's still in service of what he considers strength.

YeahButThenDragons

I know this comment is SO late, that moment when Katara calls Toph pretty is so beautiful to me. I've never been the most conventionally attractive woman, and didn't find my own stride for how I physically presented myself until I was prepping for college. I wasn't usually bothered by this, but around 16, when a girl I was friends with SO genuinely and unprompted called me beautiful, it was so impactful. I thought about it for like three straight days, and obviously still recall and reflect on it today. Girls supporting girls - especially those who might "hang with the boys" a little more, can be so impactful.

Harold Hicks

Im everything worked out but I wish they talked about how helping can sometimes do bad during the part Katara destroyed the fire nation factory. Because in real life theres no fixing something like that.

Asher Leat

Hey guys. Here as your yearly reminder that I would love to see another avatar episode. Can’t wait for you two to watch Korra, despite its “flaws”

Ian Thorsten

This was fantastic! And holy crap please watch Legend of Korra! It's like; same same, but different. 😅 Really good though and I think you both will enjoy it overall.

James McCright

I can actually find some good in blood bending... Could you imagine how much good could actually be don it you could staunch bleeding? You can turn what is totally dark as first glance to something a paramedic would actually like to have at their disposal... The lives that could be saved when you actually think about it. Blood bending is not inherently bad and can be used for good.

Jay Skylar's Stories

I would love to see a full family therapy episode for Zuko, Azula, and their parents. I think Azula's mother did love her, but I also think she gave up on her: she saw her troubling tendencies, which I do believe Azula was born with, and she saw how easy it was for Azula to gain her father's approval, and she decided to devote all of her outward affection and protection to Zuko because she felt he needed it more. As a result Azula didn't feel that unconditional love, whether it was there or not, and had truly no one to help her direct those impulses into a positive direction; she could've been a great sibling and friend, but the only figure she had to guide her was Ozai. She's just as much a victim of his abuse as Zuko, just in a different way, and a way where she became a perpetrator of it as well.

Emma Bollans

I love that look on Zuko’s face when Katara stops the rain and realises that she has been going easy on him. He’s like “I could have been dead so many times over.” 🤣