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EPIC: The Musical - The Wisdom Saga - Reaction (Full) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-09-13 12:00:09
Edited:
2026-09-20 15:50:17
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YES ATHENA!Dragon Fly Creations: https://linktr.ee/dragonflycreates Upload Schedule: https://trello.com/b/60VKaFPE/not-so-average-schedule Socials: https://linktr.ee/notsoaveragefangirl

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ConnorH265

Yes neal illustrator god games my favorite version!!

LikeCat

„You're a good kid" - PJO TLT Musical flashbacks and I hate it. God Games: Apollo shows up - Me (as a daughter of Apollo, yes I am Will's half sis): Hi Dad. (Lester) I think its safe to say WHY he did not help as willingly Athena as he usually would... ... If he did he would very easily end up in a dumpster. 😉 (Btw Zeus is such a hypochritical God, all the Gods aren't the best parent, sure... But he just refuses to help his kids Gods/Demigods alike or stand up for them against Hera (mainly talking about Jason). Plus he has MAJOR favortizem for his daugthers (be it Athena, Artemis or even Thalia) then his sons (Ares - less, mainly Apollo and Jason - I know he is a Son of Jupiter, but my point still stands)

Liam Gradwell

I just knew Elijah was gonna be weak to Aphrodite’s “design”. For the record, I do want “I’m Sapphic and I’m Weak” in the merch. 🤣🌈

bloodyshadow1

my favorite saga. Athena is my favorite mythological figure so her being in the spotlight and not portrayed as an evil manipulative bitch is great for me. Fun fact, before the saga was released jorge released bits and pieces of some of these songs already, the parts of god games he released is what got me into epic. but because of this, people thought Athena just abandoned Ody and moved on the Telemachus because the parts of Legendary that were released only focused on Tel and Athena, and in God games only the aphrodite, ares, and Hera parts were released so it sounded like she was only defending Telemachus and trying to free Ody for his sake, not for the sake of her former warrior of the mind. Then the saga came out and people heard that Athena genuinely felt sorry for her part in their split and was fighting for the both of them another fun thing to notice since you reacted to Neal's thunderbringer and god games, when Zeus smites Ody's crew he does it with almost contempt, dropping the ball of lightning he's in his normal body. Because that was really just a game to him. In god games against Athena though, he charges up into his full cloud lightning body becoming much larger and blasts her with his might. Showing the difference between how he deals with toying with mortals vs how he would deal with a god who pisses him off (or maybe specifically Athena since she's the most dangerous god of her generation)

EDHPlayer

Oh boy, this saga happens to be my second least favorite. The one after this has to be my least favorite, but I’ll get to that later. It’s also the one with the most amount of changes, and unlike the THUNDER SAGA, I despise almost every single one of them and wish Jorge Rivera-Herrans had done things differently. To start off, Telemachus would not be as, for a lack of a better term, wimpy. As a prince, he would have been taught how to fight. In fact his teacher was named Mentor, which is where we got the terminology. Athena disguised herself as Mentor to get Telemachus started on a mission, because as I’ve stated before in the other sagas, none of the Olympians (except for Hermes) appeared before mortals without a disguise in The Odyssey. The suitors are a giant example of the Adaptational Villainy trope. In The Odyssey, they were very careful to toe the line when it came to exercising their role as guests. This meant that they wouldn’t have openly fought Telemachus or threatened Penelope with assault. They wouldn’t have even insulted them to each other as it would have been a violation of their rights as guests. Fuck Kalypso. No seriously, out of all the antagonists in The Odyssey, she is by far the worst. Don’t feel sorry for her, don’t emphasize with her, don’t do anything but feel absolute contempt for her. Her part in the story is the biggest example of being a bad host. She holds Odysseus against his will, forces herself on him without consent, and refuses to acknowledge his own autonomy FOR SEVEN YEARS. Also, Odysseus’ desire to die was less because he was haunted by his decisions and sacrifices, but more because he didn’t see any way he would be able to get home. Now, you might end up hearing how she’s cursed to never leave the island, which has no evidence. Anything regarding curses with Kalypso are invention of others, especially the Peter Jackson books (the less said about those the better). She’s found in only two myths and none state anything about her being unable to leave the island. It is also worth noting that The Odyssey holds no punches in explaining just how horrible Kalypso is. Zeus would never hurt Athena. Zeus was many things, a lot of them not very good, but he was completely and fully a daughters’ father. Neither Artemis nor Athena would ever be hurt by Zeus, and Athena was his favorite so whenever she asked a favor of him, she got it. BUT she was careful so not to hurt his pride or ego. Such a witty goddess. But yeah, Zeus would never hurt Athena. And Athena would never have pointed out Zeus’ infidelity to anyone. Next saga is my least favorite. See you then.

Dark Danny

Love in Paradise is probably my favorite song out of the musical. I love how when Odysseus tells Calypso that Penelope is his wife, she has a quick mental breakdown and just acts like she didn't hear him

Dragon0921

I know I'm a broken record at this point but AnniFlamma's rendition of God Games is another one I recommend checking out later on (especially to see their version of Aphrodite and Hera. 👀) Also, Calypso's representation in this is interesting. It feels like she's meant to be more sympathetic in this version than in the original story. Granted she's still VERY MUCH in the wrong for holding Odysseus hostage for 7 years, but it feels like it comes from a place of desperation being isolated on her island for centuries. I know a lot of people portray her as villainous, but I don't think that was the route they went with for her in this interpretation.

jessie H

Say hello to Antinuos; probably the biggest dirtbag in the whole of Epic. I think he beats Zeus and Poseidon in dirt baggy-ness. You hate him, but damn does he have a good voice! Aphrodite is actually married to Hephaestus, but is cheating with Ares.

Dragon0921

ALSO keep in mind that certain visual things are simply artist interpretations. I've seen multiple animatics with different designs and how things happen differently visually. It's great to enjoy them but try not to take ONE interpretation as the be all for how it actually goes down. End of the day these are all FAN animatics.

Dark Danny

Aphrodite is actually married to Hephaestus, she cheats on him with Ares though

LikeCat

This Saga has to be one of my favorites. Mainly because of Telemachus, he is such a little Disney Princess and so god(s) damn (feel free to make every Hoover Dam joke) adorible.

Xylia

So I believe Jorge Rivera-Herrans, the creator, confirmed that Zeus became enraged because of the dig about his cheating on Hera, “You dare to defy me, to make me feel shame.” Also, I don’t know if you take recommendations for specific animatics, but if considered, I recommend for Get In the Water and Six Hundred Strike by Laritamiauu.

EDHPlayer

I’ve felt that EPIC humanizes the monsters and demonizes the humans. Kalypso is very much the most unsympathetic character in The Odyssey.

og.monstr

All the male characters in 'The Odyssey' deserve painful deaths, but yeah, Antinous in particular takes the shitcake.

og.monstr

'I'm sapphic, and I'm weak!' 😁 TBF, this IS Aphrodite we're talking about. It's in her job description.

LikeCat

As a MASSIVE PJO fan I have/had to constantly remind myself that THIS Calypso (Calypso in myths in general) is a prick compared to PJO (One of the few things Uncle Rick did that didn't completely rip our collective hearts out *cough* the literal cliffhanger of MoA *cough*)

LikeCat

This applies to her kids too... Selena was one of THE MVPs in the Battle of Manhattan and Pipes is one of the Demigods of the Seven.

Phoenix_mercury

No, cat means calypso. In this we don't know exactly what happens on the island(we can only imply) but in PJO she was heavily sanitized "for kids" which is hilariously bs considering he was sanitising someone who SA'd a guy for 7 years in the myth(theirs no if ands or but's, homer did not make it ambiguous in the slightest what she was doing and that Ody is a victim)

BGTitan

Legendary : The way everyone is like "excuse me?!" when Antinous calls Penelope a tramp. Valid. And yes, Penelope is a loyal queen and we stan. Little Wolf: My girl Athena has returned!!! Yes!!!! Ugh her voice!!! Teagan Earley, my queen! We'll Be Fine: This is actually my favorite of the Wisdom Saga and the only complaint I have is that it's soooooo short! It's just so wholesome!!! There's also just a crap load of callbacks. Athena actually calling Ody her friend after rejecting the title back in the first two sagas. The entire time this song is using the melody for Warrior of the Mind (as is God Games). Athena saying she hasn't been sleeping at night, calling back to when Ody asked "what's a title any goddess could lend, if I'll never sleep at night" back in My Goodbye. And then to top it off, this animatic has Athena give Telemachus a high five, which is something she didn't do in Warrior of the Mind. Love In Paradise: Okay, so while Calypso in the original myth did SA Ody for seven years, Jorge said that the one in EPIC did not which I've always been a little mixed on because this song sure does imply that she did. But, whatever, I'm not the creator. Not my musical. Still, she's a bit delusional about their bond. As you can imagine, she's a controversial character in this story. Regardless, her singer is also amazing. Such a pretty voice. Bringing in Open Arms, Luck Runs Out, and his mother's part in the Underworld was just mean Jorge! Also I love Just a Man being used for "I'm not your man". Makes me chuckle. God Games: Yeah this one is a beast of a song, and Neal goes ham for all of it. Though a lot of artists have done amazing interpretations, including Gigi. Hephaestus is voiced by Jorge's dad. Hera being disco is one of my favorite things in this entire musical and Poesy does it so well. The reason Zeus got really pissy at the end is because of the "never cheated on his wife" bit. Bro's ego got bruised.

Annieme

This is my favourite saga. Love in paradise is definitely a song I love singing cuz it’s so boppy but yah… thematically… oof ^^’

Shay

Ares and Aphrodite are indeed accurate to mythology (though Aphrodite was married to Hephaestus, but even the gods themselves ignore that a lot😂) and Ares is one of the only male gods that was entirely against abusing women (the other male gods often shunned him for that because whenever women came to them about being assaulted he always took the victims' side instead of the other gods and was once a tie-breaker that got a rapist actually punished for once, so he was fairly well-liked by women in stories and the other gods were jealous of that)

Andrew Pineda

[Mod] Please do not make such comments as it’s not relevant to the animatics or the reaction.

Ashley Silver

That shirt definitely needs to be merch :3

NERD!

Sadly the not abusing women thing is not true, he defended his own daughter from being abused, but that is the only story of him doing so and there are more of him let's just say not doing so.

Jasmine

the wisdom saga is my second favorite saga

Rachel Mae

C: did you know you talk in your sleep? Tell me who's Penelope? O: she's my wife *ellipses* C: ANYWAY! Also something about rhyming Scylla with kill her is just really pleasing to my brain

Shay

So, forgive me for not knowing exact dates (or names of time periods, I'm horrible at those), it has been over 10 years since I hyperfixated on mythology, I apologize for not being specific enough🙏🏾. Basically what I remember is there being a whole thing with Ares being one of the "newer" pantheon additions carried over from back when Aphrodite was a goddess of both war AND love (hence them still being connected in Greek mythology) and that because he kinda came from her he tended to be worshipped by women and defend them, but because Greeks were very violent and sexist they started to resent both Ares and Aphrodite for not fitting their world view they decided to start writing Aphrodite to be more graceful and ladylike(at least, their version of that) as well as making her more vain and petty whilst writing Ares to more clearly fit their manly war aesthetic(which means adding in extra lovers and constantly craving murder). Basically both Ares and Aphrodite had huge characterization overhauls when the Greeks stole them from the previous culture's religions. I think a similar thing happened with Hades and Persophone. Persephone is actually an older god than Hades and already ruled the underworld, so when the Greeks took over and created a male ruler for the underworld they needed a method to explain why Persephone was there to rule it too, so they created the whole Zues giving her away to Hades situation to explain that in a way that fit their culture.

ConnorH265

Elijah:aww she so cute *talking about calypso* Us:😨 yeah cute totally didn't SA a man for 7 years no (And off topic yes Aphrodite an Aries are a thing but she is actively cheating on her husband hephaestus who funny enough is in god games)

Dragon0921

My take with this version of Calypso is she's more "lovey dovey" cuddle type than sexual. She probably thinks "climbing to bed" just means snuggling. Lol Still very wrong for holding Ody hostage for 7 years but this version of her was definitely meant to be more sympathetic, acting out of desperation and loneliness.

LikeCat

Me: You drool in your sleep. (Its more romantic then it sounds... Trust me)

RenaissanceM

“I’M WEAK!!!!” 😂😂😂 All mortals are weak to Aphrodite. That’s the point. No shame in it. 🤣👍

Alexis Cardillo

I know all Epic songs are bangers but Wisdom really has some good ones

Thunder

It's kind of unfortunate that, for all that most of the songs are great as themselves, narratively Wisdom is the one of the weakest of the sagas (and I'm saying that while fully admitting that it's one of my personal favourites). Only Vengeance is weaker, but for entirely different reasons.

Zora Brightwood

This saga is in my top 3 its so good and i love the design that neil has for all the gods there are details i there that are dope one of my faves is how Hephaestus' legs do not work normally so he fights with a mech

Kyle Hennett

The voice of Hera is POESY, a fellow member of LGBT community and a really great artist.

Brett

God games made me ship Athena and Aphrodite.

NERD!

Again we have no evidence of women worshipping him and no evidence of him defending abused victims.

Shay

(Again, I apologize for not being specific enough. I am not currently hyperfixated on Greeks and haven't been for years) The "evidence of women worshipping him" is that there were shrines/alters to Ares in homes of families and in womens' servant quarters, and I believe there were also clothing/sewing projects dedicated to Ares, which at the time was considered a "womanly" activity. There's obviously not a way to specifically "prove" that mothers worshipped him, because families shared close homes and were often not separated, but being with family and staying at home with the family were both considered roles for women so we can use context clues that if homes that had children in them also had small shrines to Ares then the wives probably prayed to Ares for at least their husbands safety or other such things. And the stories of Ares "defending women" were (from what I can recall) unfinished or destroyed texts, or stories that were altered later by other religions therefore depriving us of the means to know the full original (the same way we don't ACTUALLY know the Trojans; we only know what Greeks wrote after they were already gone, which is all written with heavy biases, and what we can find from what little remains of their own religious texts and shrines, which shows us there were genuinely a real culture of people there at some point); stories that we can't definitively say were even focused on Ares, just that he was there and the general attitude of women liking him and men not liking him(at least for a relatively short while). Frustratingly, many of Ares early stories are lost and/or broken enough to forever be incomplete; so I do admit that at least some part of me speculates the rest (just like historians have to) by using the context clues of how Ares tended to be described (Ares was generally described as being boyish in appearance as a way of demasculation, which implies that he wasn't liked by men, he was also depicted as somewhat neglected by othe gods, in that he didn't often need to interact with them he just kinda exists in everyone else's general vicinity until he becomes relevant, and he wasn't worshipped by soldiers as much as Zeus and Athena considering he was a god of war, or at least there weren't AS MANY private shrines found at "soldier's quarters" as there were in family homes)

Adrian

Unfortunately the protector of women angle people put on Ares is a far more modern take that people latched on to and not actually supported by the myths and stories. I think the only stories he’s defending women in is when he’s retaliating against harm done to his own kids.

Shay

Yes, I said this in my last reply. It's more or less speculation based on loose context clues of some already incomplete information.

Adionus

What I love about god games is when Athena gets struck first we hear Warrior of the mind (Odysseus and Athena song) then Legendary (Athena and Telemachus) as her reason for fighting Zeus

Adrian

Which imo is interesting because in the myths there’s no actual reference that she’s trapped on the island and no reason to believe she’s isolated. It’s been a theme that she’s also a prisoner on the island for ages (predating PJO) but it came about /after/ the Epic Cycle was created. Epic defs tries to make her more sympathetic, but so do most modern interpretations.

Dragon0921

Not uncommon; look how often Zeus is portrayed as a noble and just God. Lol

Adrian

So now that you've officially met Telemachus, here's a fun fact about this saga: The Wisdom Saga is actually where the Odyssey begins. The poems start with the Gods in counsel talking about the drama going on with the House of Atreus (Which, with how [literally] cursed Agamemnon's bloodline is, when do they NOT have kin-slaying drama??) when Athena pops in basically going "You know, maybe it's time we let Odysseus leave Calypso's island. Ithaca is getting pretty fucked, and the suitors are breaking Xenia left and right." Zeus, being the Girl Dad that he is who is always ready to listen to and consider the advice of his Favorite Child Athena, pretty much agreed, so while they worked on getting Odysseus off the island, Athena popped back down to Ithaca, disguised as a dude named Mentee, where she met and befriended Telemachus with the intent to "Stir up his [Odysseus'] son and put some confidence in him [Telemachus]" so she put him on a training arc before sending him away on his own Coming of Age Quest Also Poseidon is explicitly said to not be present during this counsel of the gods, too busy at the edge of the world (Edge of Hyperion) visiting a city for a banquet, because hes the only god still pissed at Odysseus for the whole blinding his son bit, which in context of ancient greece and their super abelist and perfectionist mindset: was an *extremely fucked* thing of Ody to do when he /knew/ Polythemus was a son of Poseidon (Epic, unintentionally, made Odysseus’ actions in that saga way, WAY worse than they originally were btw, because in the odyssey he had the justification that Polyphemus violated xenia and so their retaliation was necessary, so it was a reasonable fucked up. In epic: Ody straight broke all the rules of xenia then maimed the dude) IDK how intentional it was on Jorges part, but: Aphrodite, Ares, and Apollo were the main gods supporting Troy during the war, so they are gonna have beef with Odysseus.

Adrian

Just to add, too for that trigger warning, yeah, Odysseus full on wanted to die during the Calypso arc, Athena outright says during Book 1 that while Calypso was yearning to make him her husband through flattery and charm, all Odysseus thought of was Ithaca and how he longed to die (Lines 50-60, Book 1) Edit: ANOTHER another note (I've been rereading the odyssey so Ive a lot of stuff to say now rip) about the "Never cheated on his wife" part. While this is very much canon to Epic, it's not exactly canon to the Odyssey. Even removing the Calypso part (Because I am not considering /THAT/ as cheating, it was SA plain and simple) there is still Circe. In the myths his affair with Circe had some very, VERY important ramifications in the following and final part of the Epic Cycle (the Telegony, I'll talk about more in the Ithaca saga). Ody made her swear an oath to do no evil to him and his crew and then they spent an entire /year/ on Circe's island, drinking and feasting, with the poem very clearly laying out that Odyseus and Circe were sleeping together during this time (Lines 345-350, 475-485 Book 10, for examples, the how to get to the underworld to see the prophet was literally one of their post-coitus conversation and i find that so funny) There's also the shit he did to Kikonians on his return home to Ithaca after Troy, what with sacking their city, killing the men, and taking their women as slaves to share among his crew (Lines 40-65 Book 9) Epic Cycle Odysseus was a very different beast from Epic!Odysseus

LikeCat

Me (an avid PJO fan for years now): How is that Hades is a better God AND father then Zeus... And it took Percy to refuse literal GODHOOD for his Uncle to have a seat at Olympus. (A. Like father like son... In more ways than one. B. No wonder Nico's (and Bianca's 😢 - and possibly most if not every Hades kid's) fatal flaw IS/ was(?) what it is.

Jadyn P

I second this, the number of times I say that phrase in a given week... 😅 I hardcore want that as merch 😂

Theking

DANG IT IM LATE!! MY SUBSCRIPTION CANCELED oh well! Time to watch!

Theking

[Post watch] YAY!! AND NOW YOU HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED TO THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE MUSICAL!! YAY!! Im so happy she enjoyed this saga, alot of people put it on the lower end for some reason😭 TWO MORE TO GO!

NamelessSoul

Wisdom saga is top 3 for sure!! Yeahh that guy is a disgusting asshole but his voice is SO good. Legendary and Well Be Fine are 2 of of my favs

Clockworkjohnny

Wanted to comment because they actually eluded to suicide twice in paradise. It's easy to miss but when Calypso introduces herself, she says "last I checked, goddesses can't die." I can't be certain if this was the intention but think about it. Calypso was alone on that island for a lot longer than Ody. How exactly would she have checked if goddesses can die? I feel that line was very specifically picked for that connotation.

Rixec2

What makes Odysseus calling out for Athena so powerful is that it shows how desperate he is. They ended things on bad terms, calling one another out. All bridges were burnt to ashes. And a lot of the gods can be petty. Yet there he was, close to the brink, and he called for her. At best, she ignores him. At worst, she kills or tortures him worst. He has no reason to think she'll help. But he calls out to her because he is that close to breaking and throws away his pride just for the fool's hope that she's still willing to help. Fortunately, Athena was already looking for him to do so.

Saiyasha

Ares and Aphrodite are famously lovers in Greek mythology. Aphrodite is technically married to Hephaestus and there is a 'humorous' story about Haephestus making their bed a contraption that catches both Ares and Aphrodite in a net the next time they go at it and he let's them stew there for a few days. I'm always torn on this because Aphrodite has no say in that marriage, she never chose Haephestus, she was given to him as a prize so that he would free hera after having trapped her too. And he did that, because Hera, after seeing Zeus spontaneously headcombust Athena out of thin air decided if he can make a baby on his own so can she, but once Haephestus was 'done' she decided he was ugly and threw him off the mountain. Greek myth is a wacky family tragedy Also there is of course the Meta thing that love or rather lust and war, especially the bloody, unthinking war of Ares go very well together. I mean, Ody is only in this predicament because Aphrodite allowed Paris to take Helen and her husband raised Holy hell to get her back. It was odys fault though that he got involved, it was a pact he proposed that meant every Greek king had to go after her...

John Crane

In the original myth, while Aphrodite was married to Haphestus, she was lovers with Ares. Also, fun fact, before she was worshiped as a love goddess, she was a war goddess, so it makes sense she gravitates towards Ares