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RWBY - Vol. 8 Ep. 5 + 6 - Reaction (Full) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-14 13:00:18
Edited:
2026-09-20 18:03:04
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Well that's one hell of a backstory.Dragon Fly Creations: https://linktr.ee/dragonflycreates Upload Schedule: https://trello.com/b/60VKaFPE/not-so-average-schedule Socials: https://linktr.ee/notsoaveragefangirl

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YNB

It has arrived

Dreanner95

Cinder is also very much a coward. With Ruby's Silver Eyes affecting her Grimm parts, she doesn't want to directly confront Ruby. But she is the one who made the deal with Neo to kill Ruby.

Globe Blotter

the great thing about RWBY is that you understand where Cinder is coming from, but it is never used to excuse her actions, like, we've seen other characters like Ren, Nora, Blake, and even Weiss coming from physically abusive, or deprived backgrounds, but they choose the turn their pain into strength. And it shows that Cinder really is a coward, because she cannot move on from her past.

Suplee215

I think neo is a perfect example of chaotic neutral. I think Roman is too although a tad closer to the evil side. Ultimately both want to work outside the systems in place and do what they want. Roman does embrace being the bad guy more but thats because he doesnt think there are any actual good guys I think. At least not any effective ones.

Dafydd Mac an Leigh

Maria vs Neo was the fight I never knew I needed until ep. 5 dropped. (I also loved Maria's little Aliens reference)

Dreanner95

Also fuck Rhodes. He saw a child getting abused but refused to break or bent laws to free her. Cinder is her own person and should be held accountable for her actions but Rhodes still did the wrong thing by giving a traumatised girl fighting lessons and a weapon instead of actually freeing her.

Ian Moscrop

Holy hell I think the pause per minute increased to pause per second. I feel like evey 20 seconds she paused. That got annoying to watch after a while. I don't mind occasionally pausing to get yiur thoughts out, I pause videos too. But this recording was more pausing than actually letting the animation play out.

Suplee215

Trauma doesnt excuse or justifies what Cinder did, but it sure is understandable why she thinks the only way to be secure is power. Also, just because 1 person un a similiarish situation (although Nora wasnt a slave as far as we know) doesnt mean both will have the same outcome.

BGTitan

Ep 5: We've actually gotten several curse words (by American standards). In V3 we had Qrow, Coco, and an Atlas pilot say the word 'damn'. In V4 Tyrian did call Ruby a bitch. In V5 Yang also said 'damn'. In V6 Yang called Oz a bastard. Oscar read the word 'bastard' from the journal in V6x06. And then Rhodes said damn when he realized someone stole his sword. Really we've only got cut off on cuss words like...three times I think. Taylor McNee (Penny's VA) did phenomenal this episode. Her last few lines where she's fighting the virus, ending with "I love you" is one of the most heartbreaking deliveries. She really showed her stuff this episode. In this moment, Watts didn't actually betray James. He did exactly as he was asked, gave Penny a virus that was going to make her go to the vault. Like he said Penny's probably just rebooting at the moment. James is just mad that he's not getting his way immediately. As he's made abundantly clear, he wants Penny under his control and taking his orders now. Something subtle I do love about Winter’s appearance in this episode is that you can clearly see she’s uncomfortable with Watts being there. She stares at Penny’s weapon first, partly because she’s worried about Penny because they are friends. But then we get the shot from her POV of Watts and James (and Harriet) and the look on her face says it all. Another thing is that she clearly still isn’t fully recovered from her fight with Cinder. Hasn’t had the time to really rest because of everything going on. So those black and red additions to her outfit are literally braces holding her upright and together. Like girl is not okay. Ep 6: Rhodes (the Huntsman training Cinder) is kind of the definition of what the other Councilman said last volume. What people intend and what they do aren’t always the same thing. Rhodes thought he was helping. But I don’t know what he expected to happen when he taught a girl that was being abused (though he most likely didn’t know the extent of it) how to fight. He really just expected her to hang in there for seven more years, while he came and went about his life. Not to mention, he frequently visits an establishment that doesn’t allow Faunus. … A product of Atlas indeed. A subtle detail is that when the sisters come running in to tell the Madame about the sword the curly haired one is like “cool Cinder’s about to get in trouble” while the other is legitimately concerned and scared. I like how this episode also just shows the constant cycle of abuse. Madame and Salem to Cinder to Emerald. Although Salem is smart enough to sprinkle in kindness and understanding so that Cinder doesn’t completely turn on her. And it doesn’t absolve Cinder of all her crimes, just gives us the context of how she got this way. Also, I remember that the episode description posted before the episode aired was simply ‘it’s time’ and everyone was sent into a full panic and dread mode. And then of course Salem says the line itself and we’re all just like… well shit. And we see yet again the biggest flaw with Atlas technology. The entire idea of if one part goes down, the whole system can’t sustain itself. This has been a reoccurring thing with Atlas. We saw it with the CCT system. We saw it with the shields back in V6 during the fight with the Leviathan. And we see it again here. Freakin Atlas, man.

Yannara Negre

I'm getting my lunch just to watch this while eating.

Solus

Great reaction, I love this show, I own all 9 Volumes and all soundtracks that go with each Volume, I hope they don't mess the show up with Vol 10 with stuff that has no place being in the show, I want RWBY to finish strong.

melini_29

once again repeating Penny at the beginning of vol. 7: it's gonna be just like Beacon again :D

SportySpice

I know she’s a fan fav, but there’s nothing really indicating there’s more going on with Neo. She operates with complete disregard for life and seems to do it with glee. It almost feels like the consequences don’t really register to her — like everyone else is just something to play with for her own satisfaction. Just my take. Also she’s a whole ass adult fixated on killing a teenager. I love a pesky and petty villain, and Neo serves that role extremely well, but I don’t see more than that. I know it’s a popular take among the fandom that Rhodes was supposed to be some illustration of Atlas’s indifference and half-assed approach to fixing injustice, but I really think it was just the show reiterating to the audience that Cinder will burn all her bridges and throw allies under the bus. I wish the layers the fans are reading into it were intended, but I just think it’s the show demonstrating Cinder already succumbing to the cycle of abuse. I’m also bummed for the show that they couldn’t fit Cinders backstory in Vol 5 as they originally intended — feels a bit too little too late.

EDHPlayer

“I don’t care about the big picture! I care about my daughter” has always sent chills down my spine. Props to the VA, you can hear the frustration and pain in his voice, knowing that all his struggles of keeping Penny safe are just making things worse.

KingKAi BAckup

Bro I really can't wait til next Friday 😭

Isadora

To each their own. I love how much she pays attention to every detail now, and I always appreciate her analysis / point of view on the matter. It's a reaction, so of course I want to see how she reacts to things.

Suplee215

In my opinion cinder killing her guardian and her daughters was not murder. Self defense both because we knew the mother was appoarching her for pubishment and cinder got a reasonable expectation the punishment will be violent and because of the general situation she was in. The immediate punishment possibility will make it an easy self defense case. If cinder just killed them without being in a directly threatened position its a harder case for self defense legally but not impossible. Especially because she was basically kept as a slave (and the "basically" feels unneeded) and slavery was outlawed. On a moral level I think her killings are also justified until Rhodes. She had no way to escape the situation of beijg constantly abused and tortured and forced to work besides that. Her only hope was in 2 years at the earliest and thsts assuming she survives for that long. Which its understandable if she didnt. Her killing Rhodes was wrong morally but I get it. He did nothing when he found out a 10 year old girl was being tortured and kept as a slave. All training her did was prepare her for a future she may never see. As a huntsman he certainly had the ability to alert the authorities and make sure something more than a slap on the wrist happens or to just take her amd run.

Dreanner95

It is pretty obvious that setting the hotel in Atlas was a consious choice by the writers. And the way Rhodes acts is a pretty obvious parallel to how the Ace Ops act so I don't get why you are disregarding that so easily. And Cinder in the flashback actually looked betrayed by Rhodes. Her fighting and killing him had nothing to do with her "throwing allies under the bus". He literally wasn't her ally the moment he decided that he had to bring her in.

Phoenix_mercury

fr!! exactly! also Rhodes gave the the abilities but never the means, it felt very.... "see im helping" without *actually* helping with the *real* issue and kinda... grandstand-y

Suplee215

He was trying to work inside the system i think. Going to the police would take a lot of time. Especially as the hotel pwner is very wealthy amd possibly connected. But some situations are so extreme the only way to do the moral thing is to do soemthing drastic. Whether thars breaking the law and kidnapping cinder to get her out of there or taking the legal root of police amd fighting even kf it costs him. Im also assuming that orphanage did that type of thing a lot and theres a whole network he was looking the other way at.

Luís Pacheco

Yep, Ellen Ripley fighting the Xenomorph queen

Luís Pacheco

Your new shelf looks awesome! Especially love the RWBY shrine hehehe

James Long

Your assumption is based on the idea that what they were doing to Cinder was considered illegal in Atlas. For all we know, their actions fell within legal boundaries in Atlas.

Suplee215

Slavery was outlawed by the great war. Im going assume child abuse is also illegal to the extent of using a shock collar. Theres a reason it was disguised. It is totally possible atlas doesnt care though. In which case Rhodes could have kidnapped her and taken her away. I believe it was stated that slavery in all its forms was outlawed in one of the world's of remants.

The Laughing Man

Remember what Cinder said during the volume 7 finale when she was fighting Penny and Winter. "You think hoarding power means you'll have it forever, but it just makes the rest of us hungrier! And I refuse to starve."

Andy

My theory is that this episode foreshadows the eventual end of the whole show. Salem somehow does become mortal again, but then Cinder kills her and absorbs all her power just like the maidens, becoming the actual final boss for team RWBY

.

Well, it's called a reaction for a reason. These episodes were pretty intense. I'd personally be upset if she didn't pause or didn't react at all, like so many reaction channels do.

CB Jones

I really enjoy how RWBY takes fairy tales and twists them to form the character's roots. The huntsman is missing so Red Riding Hood must learn to save herself, the Beast and Beauty are one and the same and to break the curse she must accept and love herself. And so we reach Cinderella. And Rhodes, the man who wasn't brave enough to be the Fairy Godmother. He finds a 10 year old with a shock collar fastened around her neck and, as Cinder says, he could do anything. He could have taken Cinder and ran, taken her on as his apprentice or even just found her another home. He could have reported it, we know Atlas has laws and law enforcement (and while I can see Atlas being okay with child labour I assume they'd draw the line at torture) and from what we've seen a Huntsman's word carries weight where the law is concerned. But he's a regular at a fancy hotel (one with a racist entry policy), and he likes the luxury. He likes showing off to the other rich people and drinking champagne and he doesn't want to give that up. So he does the bare minimum. What little he can do without having to give up anything that he enjoys. "Just stick out the torture, belittlement and abuse for 7 more years because tha matresses here are great and I wouldn't want to risk that." All she has to do is endure pain and degradation he neither understands nor is willing to have any empathy for. And then when Cinder snaps, as she was always going to, empowered and armed by him, his first response is to draw his weapons. We don't know what hapened in the 20 minutes between the Stepmother going downstairs and Rhodes arriving, a deliberate choice of framing because neither did Rhodes. But I do think your immediate assumption was correct, there's no way it took Cinder 20 full minutes to kill the 2 sisters. They came down, attacked her via some means (we can assume the shock collar at least) and presumably this went on until a few minutes or even moments before Rhodes walked through the door. So Cinder's now standing there, emotionally raw and vulnerable and surrounded by the corpses of 3 women she likely killed in self defense. And rather than try to reason with her, ask her what happened, talk her down or empathise and try to understand why she did this he draws his weapons. The Fairy Godmother turns on Cinderella, and teaches her that she can never trust anyone to be on her side.

Isadora

As for Cinder having her neck scarred, she does tend to wear a choker or high-collared dresses, which could very well be to hide the scar. There are some outfits that show her neck bared, like her infiltration outfit in volume 2, or when she was fighting in the tournament, but that's probably due to early animation inconsistencies.

Suplee215

These episodes give a lot to talk about. For Hazel, I dont think hes proud of what hes doing or seeing it as good. But the ends justifies the needs. He seems to have a very similiar opinion Oz as Raven does. That Oz manipulates kids into fighting in his personal war. Now viewing it thar way is wrong but not entirely out of nowhere. I doubt hazel sees himself as a hero either thougg. For sure stuck in ends justifies the means.

CrowOfAFeather

Ugh, Neo...No, not "Poor Neo" she absolutely deserved every attack Maria could throw. She's a bad guy, remember? What I absolutely love about the Maria vs Neo fight is that 1; Meven though Maria is old she could still easily handle Neo and only got attacked because of distractions. 2; Her Semblance, Preflexes as she called it when explaining it to Ruby, is the PERFECT counter to Neo's acrobatic, physical illusions bullshit. Doesn't matter where or how Neo is gonna try and trick her, Maria's Semblance allows her to sense where an attack will come so she can counter/dodge with ease. If she was any younger she'd obliterate Neo in a way I hoped Yang would. Penny may be the Winter Maiden, but she has little to no experience actually using those powers. Cinder, while sticking to fire 99% of the time, does have more experience in that field. All the Maidens have the elemental magic, so Winter Maiden doesn't have specifically winter-related powers. Cinder isn't siphoning the Powers when she's grabbing Penny, I believe the writers confirmed that she's draining their Aura first, to break it and this remove any protection. But yeah it's scary nonetheless! I will never get tired of seeing Penny laserblast Neo so hard the icecream hobbit loses her Aura. It's so damn satisfying to see! "My poor girl! I'm so sorry Neo!" Again, she's a villain... Oh yeah, Cinder's Semblance is something she's had since that moment; that's when she discovered hers. It's not explained in the show properly, so basically she has the ability to Super Heat things, this manipulate things like glass and whatnot. It works well in conjunction with her Maiden Powers, especially the Fire-based ones. (if this is a spoiler and I forgot they mention this later, feel free to delete this Mods) Rhoade's (the Huntsman) Semblance is to make his skin hard like metal; you can see/hear it when he catches Cinder's attack with his hand. Unfortunately, heat works on metal, and Cinder's Semblance was the perfect counter to make his metal coating useless. And so...it begins.

Dyamalos

When I first saw the backstory of Salem and Oz I latched onto how Oz framed the question, "How can *I* stop Salem." And the answer was, "*You* can't." As in "Ozpin can't stop her." Very much the Genie "be careful about your wording". My theory is that Ozpin was working of the idea that Salem can't be beaten because he assumed he was the only one who could beat her and if he can't then nobody can. Everyone else assumed that was also the case because they were already in a bad headspace. I also agree with your theory about the silver eyes. It would make sense why Salem spent so much effort going after people with silver eyes. It could be that she just didn't like such a powerful ability hindering her grim, but we see how the eyes effect Cinder who's only had her arm replaced with grim. Salem basically has the "essence of grim" completely infused into her.

Stabby_Taco

The thing I've learned is that you can be understanding and feel bad for child Cinder because she was a fucking child and those people deserved worse imo, but you can condem adult Cinder's actions because you can always choose to be better like Nora. If anything, this episode made me pity Cinder which I feel is worse.

Enchanted_Echo

I do enjoy the new shelf layout and Neo shirt...... **Twirls Tea/hot leaf juice** I wonder how long that'll last before you move on to Winter - If I have learned anything with all the shows and movies I watched.......people are not born evil, they are taught and Cinder is E-VIL alright but I can't not feel bad for her as an Orphan she was beat upon with no-one like Ren standing up for them and age 9 taken in to the evil step mother and sisters and with Rhodes (the huntsman training Cinder) not taking away from that environment and just training her, the evil intent just kept on building and building and the training made things better but evil was just too great and thus at midnight Cinder Fall was born. I'm so happy you finally got to Cinder's Origin - What Hazel is doing is VERY much messed up, but I think it's more blind rage with something he can take it out on rather than not and Oscar is just a kid (15) his anger is out wavering that in my eyes - When you think about it, it really is sad for Tai as it's been almost a year sense he saw Ruby as she left without saying a proper goodbye and his own daughter and in a way the last thing Summer left went away without a peep and you can't do much about it because of Yang at the time and 9 months later she left too, I feel so bad for the man...........I WANT MORE LORE ON STRQ DARNET - We have heard a few curse words but I do love the cut off before it's said so much it's really funny to me - I believe the reason Cinder stopped going after Ruby so much is that not she doesn't want to, she very much wants too, it's because of what all went down at Heaven Academy and HER plan falling apart and lost against the Spring Maiden (Raven) and in turn the relic because she wanted to toy with them and because she lost the objective because she wanted to be petty she was in a sense "exiled" and almost died too. And Salem does not tolerate failure so in turn she needs to focus her anger to get the relics and power to make it up to Salem for that she craves in a turn what also Cinder craves to get her place back with Salem.

vercingetorix

Slavery was abolished after the Great War. Rhodes could have freed Cinder, but he chose to play it safe and not rock the boat instead of helping her. Cinder is not in the wrong for defending herself from the people that enslaved and tortured her for years. And yes, while we can point to characters like Nora with horrible backstories that didn't turn out like Cinder, Nora had Ren. Weiss eventually had Team RWBY. Etc etc. People to support you, people to show you the light. Cinder had no one and the one person she trusted turned on her the moment she defended herself. I would relisten to Cinder's speech near the end of volume 3: "Huntsmen and huntresses should carry themselves with honor and mercy. Yet I have witnessed neither." She wasn't just talking about the events of the Vytal Festival. This is her life experience with people like Rhodes—a huntsman that frequented a racist hotel in Atlas that turned a blind eye to a trafficked child's suffering and told her to stick it out for seven more years. But human beings can only endure so much pain before they snap. And that was Cinder's limit.

Kiesen

Rubbing my hands together because I've been one of the people waiting for this reaction since you asked what the fuck is wrong with Cinder: - Gonna have to show that Neo shirt to the Neo freak in my life. - There are actually some very detailed Blake and Yang figurines you can get. They're from the brand Good Smile/POP UP PARADE. I personally prefer Blake with her ears out so I haven't bothered to buy hers. - Gripping my desk so hard it cracks when I hear Cinder purr "Where do you think you're going?" - Just calling Ironwood "Tinman" instead of his actual name? Lmao - "You're just a tool to be used" Cinder projecting on Penny part 1 - We've had a couple cuss words but yeah pretty sure Tyrian is the only one who actually got to say "Bitch." - Completely understandable. I'm also not a big fan of the hat even though I know why it's significant to Neo. - Funny enough, Ruby is actually the only name from Team RWBY that Cinder has said. She calls the rest "those children" and Weiss just by her last name. - Call back to her old weapon Midnight with that bow!!! - Maria's semblance "preflexes," hooked weapon, and close melee fighting style is a perfect counter to Neo's own style/weapon. Neo is constantly trying to put distance between her and her target because she has terrible defense, which Maria denies her. - "I don't serve anyone and you wouldn't either if you weren't built that way" Cinder projecting on Penny part 2 - Maiden powers aren't actually bound by their season's "associated" element. Cinder just likes using fire and Penny using ice is a logical counter to it. - If you look closely, you can see that Cinder's thighs are burning too. Which sure is... something. - That choice to use Penny's robotic abilities to win that fight was intentional on behalf of the writers. I'll leave it at that. - Penny's leitmotif is somehow both so cheery and so emotional. I get teary eyed whenever I hear it but that's probably in part because of how it's used later in this volume. - I saw this mentioned on tumblr awhile back, but imagine being Ruby's old friends from Signal. Like, you're living a normal life, and that girl you know gets sent to Beacon ahead of time which is cool and whatever. Beacon falls and you wonder what happened to her but move on. Then awhile later she appears on your phone/TV screen saying she's a licensed huntress before you probably even enter a huntsman academy and that magic is real and so is Satan. - I never noticed that framing with Sun and Neptune. I personally ship those two, so I find it cute. - That is indeed the first time we've seen Glynda in the new style. They needed a model for the Justice League films lmao. - "Maybe you don't have to kill her to stop her" Elijah out here just repeating what Ruby said last volume ("We don't have to kill you to stop you. And we will stop you.") - If you think about it, Tai seeing Ruby like that somewhat parallels what Pietro went through with Penny back in V3. Just without the dismemberment on live TV. Though they're also paralleling each other a bit in general in that moment, having to let their daughters go even though they don't want to. - My emotional ass crying every time she says "I love you." Penny is so achingly human despite so many people trying to deny that and it makes me want to yowl like a coyote. - They intended to use that river of Grimm in the story more, but had to cut it back. - Cinder's allusion is probably the most on-the-nose/"faithful." There's some other close ones but she hits nearly all the notes of Cinderella. - If you listen to Cinder's dialogue during the Atlas arc, she makes jabs against specifically Atlas/Atlesians. (ex: "You Atlas elite are all the same! You think hoarding power means you'll have it forever, but it just makes the rest of us hungrier. And I refuse to starve...") Makes sense considering all This. - This specific moment is actually when Cinder unlocks her semblance. Really living up to her MLP-style name. - Lmao yeah that's still Jessica Nigri. She does pretty decent at sounding younger, though it still comes off as an adult trying to sound like a child. It's really hard to get right though so no shade. I absolutely could not sound like my 10 year old self even if I had a video to reference. - If you see Rhodes' swords, they look like Cinder's old swords (Midnight). She clearly based them off of his. - Absolutely insane that Cinder can lift a grown woman by her neck and fucking break it. - This song (Awake) wasn't actually made with RWBY in mind, but is still done by RWBY's main vocalist Casey Lee Williams. It's a song from her band Ok Goodnight. - The way Rhodes looks at her so tenderly even though she just impaled him in the abdomen. Screaming crying yowling. - Midnight is genuinely one of my favorite episodes because of how masterfully they pull everything off. It doesn't feel like it's using the original Cinderella as a crutch, but a way to emphasize the tragedy that is Cinder. We've seen this same story go different for the original Cinderella, and here it failed. At the end we feel bad for her, but not so bad that we forgive her for what she did. Madame may have set her up for this path, but she chose to follow through with it even after killing her. - Anddddddd that explains why Cinder always wears collars or clothes with high necks. She's always been hiding that scar- and can't escape wearing a collar. - Ever noticed how Cinder never physically tortures anyone? Only mentally torments them? When she killed Pyrrha, she did it as quickly as possible. Golly wonder why. - Cinder thinks she escaped her old life, but she just got a new, even more evil mommy. People love returning to what's familiar.

James Long

While Cinder’s situation is slavery. That doesn’t mean this isn’t labeled something else in Atlas. Have you seen The Apothecary Diaries? Slavery is illegal in that world too, yet there are still aspects of that world that could be defined as slavery.

LikeCat

One „fun fact" about the Grimm river: Phoenix/Night does recaps of each episode and puts in speculation on stuff then can happen later on and he made a comment in his V8C4? recap (when it was first seen) along the lines „it has to be important later, why would they show it like that" and C5 was IT... (Yeah.) And in one of his theory videos between V8/9 he brings it up, about how pointless that was

CheetsAC7

What I really like about Cinder's backstory is how it serves as a pretty solid reminder that Villians are never born, they are made. Beaten on the farm, abused at the hotel, betrayed by her only friend and mentor. While Cinder's actions do define her, everyone around her had the choice of kindness leading up to those actions. A simple act of kindness could have prevented the Villian Cinder from ever existing.

Rachel Mae

I *knew* Penny's "I love you" was gonna fuck Elijah up lol also where tf did Watts get the time to make a computer chip with his own branding on it. Like just imagine him telling Ironwood what supplies he needs to make his evil little virus and including something to etch and color in his own logo. when Midnight came out I remember quite a few people being mad because they couldn't believe after all this time they'd try to "redeem" Cinder and make us feel bad for her. And like I don't understand that at all. Not feeling bad for her after everything she's done like alright fine people have a lot of personal feelings tied up into the characters Cinder has hurt I can understand not feeling bad for her even though I disagree. but redeem her? Not every sad backstory has to be a set up for a redemption arc. Sometimes you just need to know why a character is the way they are

Ryan

Chapter 5: New shelves? New shelves! Lesbians and gentlequeers, get ready for Maiden Bowl Two! She can fly, she has ice powers, she can shoot lasers. Penny is basically Supergirl at this point. All she needs now is a gay older sister and an unacknowledged crush on on a hot lady scientist. Salem can't be destroyed but you could throw her into a salt mine and vitrify it. Or drop her to the bottom of the ocean. Chapter 6: The haunting melody in a minor key... The fact that Cinder was on a path to become a huntress, to do good, despite her upbringing... she could have been amazing. Credit to the writers that they pack a Jinx level backstory worth of trauma in under twenty minutes. ...and there's six? seven? more chapters in the volume? Oh, no... it's going to take a deux ex machina. And they don't have one, because Raven is selfish. If she had remained a huntress, and made bonds with huntsman and huntresses across the four kingdoms, she could rally an army to anywhere in Remnant within minutes. Of course, that would make her the weak link, and Salem would have gone after her first.

Enchanted_Echo

Ah a fellow Super-Corp shipper I see

Ryan

People are saying the huntsman who trained Cinder is named Rhodes ... as in "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

Dyamalos

I've seen so many ass-backward takes on RWBY that make absolutely no sense it feels like they didn't watch the same thing I did. A lot of people have no concept of media literacy while complaining that nobody at Rooster Teeth were "formerly trained" or whatever, as if that is needed to write a good story. RWBY started off pretty simple, but it grew over the years into a complex story with nuance and is an obvious labor of love, not something focused tested into the dirt like a lot of media companies churn out. But a lot of people don't get nuance and complexity goes over their head. They can't understand theming and foreshadowing then say the RWBY team "can't write a good story". Good villains are good because they have complex stories. Like, their backstory makes them feel *real*. People doing bad things for the "evils" is a lazy trope, like "This person is bad because they are bad". It's circular reasoning. Sympathetic villains, where you can understand how they turned out the way they did while also not agreeing with what they do, are some of the best villains out there. And the complexity of most of the people around Salem also highlight how petty and selfish she is. They all have their own reasons for following her. Cinder was beaten down so much growing up she developed a complex of craving power so that people couldn't do that to her anymore. Hazel is misguided, trying to blame Oz for his sister rather than acknowledge she was her own person which is a realistic response to trauma like that. Mercury had an abusive father that he ultimately killed but was never made whole because his father took his semblance. Emerald follows Cinder because Cinder basically saved her from the streets and is blindly loyal to someone who only takes advantage. Meanwhile, Salem lost Oz to illness, blamed the gods for it when it is obvious they don't work that way, refused to accept it, got humanity killed once already, then turned herself into a monster. Even after she reconnects with Oz for that brief moment once he rejected the stuff she was having them do she lashed out at him the same way she did the gods. Salem grew up in the tower lonely, but compared to everyone else she actually had a fairly nice life. She's petty that she didn't get everything she wanted and while the trauma of losing a loved one can push someone over the edge her reasons for doing what she does are inherently selfish, which while not a sympathetic villain still makes her feel realistic because there are a ton of people like that in the world. Also, her reaction to losing Oz the first time is in contrast to how Hazel reacts. Her motivation is selfishness because she wanted to "have" him. Hazel is very obviously distraught over his sister and lashes out, but the motivation isn't out of selfishness, he just wants to blame Oz because that is easier than addressing the reality.

Phoenix_mercury

Yeah unless a person is literally born wired wrong(so to speak) "villains" are made from what they absorb when young

Tammy Ragsdale

Watts did exactly what James asked him to do. Why wouldn't he? The plan all along was to let James do the work for them. Ruby even said it. The minute they open the vault, the staff is vulnerable. Ironwood's tantrum only gave Watts a chance to grab the phone. Falling and the shut-down is a result of Penny fighting it so hard. This whole episode, especially the virus vs Penny, really hits hard on the theme of the puppet vs the person. She's still got some strings on her. Still subject, in some ways, to doing what others want. I like Cinder's backstory. I know it was supposed to air in an earlier volume, but it fits here, too. This is very much the Villain's volume. Especially Cinder. Beyond that, it's just a really good example of a good villain origin. I feel bad for young Cinder, but not adult Cinder. I have empathy for her past, but don't feel sorry for her. I don't have to hear anyone out on Winter, believe me. Poor girl, she clearly is uncomfortable with what is going on, but still thinks James is going to lead them to do the right thing in the end. She's still hurt, too, probably badly. She's being held up by casts and bracers. The whole volume takes place over only a few short days, so it's likely just been a matter of hours since she left the ICU.

Phoenix_mercury

Unlike Nora, cinder didn't have a "ren" she had a huntsman (should have been even more helpful) that turned in her as soon as she stood up for herself against her slaver/abusers showing her that no-one can actually be trusted

Ian Moscrop

Don't get me wrong, I love Elijah's reactions. I've been PAYING for this subscription since she finished volume 1. This particular video felt unwatcheable in my opinion. I'm allowed to give my feedback in the comments of said video. This one had way more pausing than Mosco's RWBY reactions, and that is saying something because Mosco's whole thing is pausing reactions.

Phoenix_mercury

Tbh it really comes across as just Rhodes likes the comfort and luxury of this place, tells the kid to put up with 7 more years of abuse and torture then leave so he doesn't have to give up the comfort of the racist hotel that he enjoys frequenting... Like cinder says, he could do "anything"(i.e get her away from it, take her in as an apprentice or just find her another home) yet he gives her the abilities to defend herself, when she leaves bcz she "can't" actually protect herself here, without the actual means of protection for a kid that's only just hit double digits...

Suplee215

Fair. I take it more that he doesnt want to change the status quo and is comfortable with it. Which is basically the same but a few differences

Dyamalos

Considering how quickly people who have aura can heal, they probably only needed to stabilize her long enough for her aura to recover and heal the worst of the wounds. The process can still take time, and she might be a bit unsteady for a bit, but she likely isn't anywhere near as injured as she was at the end of the last season.

Stabby_Taco

I agree. It made me made that he left her there the whole time he was training. Had he taken her with him and trained her, she may have become a good guy.

Ann_Temki

Fun fact: while the episodes were coming out you could see the thumbnail and description like two days pre-release and everyone was freaking out because Midnight’s description was simply “It’s time.”

Arashi

4:11 It's unfortunate they don't make Blake and Yang figurines. Maybe they make Blang and Yake ones? Amity 9:26 I always loved that half-reference to the Aliens movie. While the fight in (and around) Amity is short, it's very well done and an great showcase for Penny and Maria. 26:01 ...Really? Yes she does but.. really? :D :P Penny's last scene for this episode is really painful. Touching and beautiful but oh so painful. Midnight 33:32 A point that I've heard for this. You can feel bad for her history and still condemn her for her actions and choices. It was a rough start, lots of people have taken advantage of her situation, and one can even understand (most of) her thought paths. But all her choices since Vol 1 were still her own. Cinder's had plenty of chances to just choose to be better, but every time it has just been choosing to be the same as those she hated. 39:58 This is, more or less, another case of stress awakening of aura/semblance. like with Ren. 43:11 'That', is Huntsman Rhodes. Based (loosely) on the Colossus of Rhodes. His semblance, as we saw more of later, is to turn/coat his skin in metal. 44:52 ...Yeah... remember those words and feelings you see him making. They're going to be important. 48:26 Background sound mix in this scene is top tier. The vocals, the music, and just behind it all, the toll of the midnight bell. Honestly, Rhodes upset me the most in this. Cinder was so close, but he just fumbled the last chance. Fiveish years of work and not only did he leave her there, where he did know 'things were bad', but he blames her and says she was wrong when she was finally pushed too far. 49:57 Yeah... about those feelings of hope and promise Rhodes gave her? This is her realizing he just took them back. Can't trust anyone else. The final lesson of Huntsman Rhodes to the abused orphan Cinder. 50:39 Cinder's semblance is to rapidly superheat what she's touching. Weather it was a coating or a transformation, that metal went red-hot /fast/. 1:04:12 Very serious, and just think, it's only been up to 8 hours since the volume started.

Luminaxtea

Fun fact: English cover artist AmaLee voices Cinder's step-sisters in Midnight. Continuing RWBY's trend of hiring prolific people for minor/one-off roles (ie. Laura Bailey as Amber, Monica Rial as Sienna, several members of Team Four Star for minor or background voices, ect).

Potato

Ah yes the glory of volume 8. Making volume 3 look like childs play XD

Celly

You are the first and only - to my knowledge - of reactors that have seen with the utmost clarity the fact that Nora and Cinder are polar, diametrical opposites. Nora lived in abject poverty, shared a traumatic disaster with her yin to her yang in Ren at 6 or 7 years of age, spent 10 years fighting for their lives on the streets (undergoing who knows what sheer terrors), and then went to Beacon only to watch it fall, lose their friends, and then join Ruby Rose in a cross continental trek to save Haven from Salem. I have so much respect for the Nora character and indeed love her above and beyond the main four girls. I suspect that the emotional struggle you had when you found out Cinder IS a villain and lost your admiration of her is not the last time you will go through this in Volume 8 and 9, Elijah. Perhaps you might turn on another character yet. Maybe its Maria? Or Emerald? Or maybe one of the main girls or someone else you respect and/or admire? Maybe even Neo. Your RWBY journey is far from over, sweetie, and I look forward to all of your reactions to this fantastic series. Its sort of sad you don't have the extra RWBY reaction a week still, but then again I had been looking forward to Mighty Nein and Hazbin too with you :) Celly

Dyamalos

Very much the fence sitting, "prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice". Even if he knew it would be right to save Cinder he would rather be comfortable.

Ryan

All those boards and sails left unused in the docks...

Dyamalos

I kind of agree, but there is a bit of difference with the Ace Ops. They are "just following orders" because military mindset which has basically forced them to keep everyone else at arms length. We see that at the start of the last season where they "don't mix the two" when it comes to friends and co-workers, but we never see them hanging out with anyone else, so it's basically admitting they don't have friends and because they won't allow themselves to get that close they were beaten by the superior teamwork of team RWBY. For Rhodes, he could have done something but didn't want to rock the boat because he was comfortable. He did the bare minimum and then gave Cinder the sword thinking he was helping but essentially set her up to be in the situation where she had to defend herself. Then when he finds her he betrays her by pulling his weapons on her rather than talking her down, which pushed her over the edge. Before that she could have been set on a different path despite the abuse and trauma that had her teetering, but you can see it when her face changes. She showed anger before in the flashback, but it wasn't the same kind of anger. In that moment she feels the entire weight of everything and feels nobody will ever come to save her and she snaps. He could have let her run. He could have talked her down, asking what actually happened. But he knew what happened. Maybe he was more trying to protect himself, because if the authorities learned he gave her that sword he would be implicated in what happened and that could disrupt his image if nothing else or possibly have his license revoked if not thrown in prison. Even if Cinder got off on self defense it would be known he left her in that situation for years. Even if the rich assholes in Atlas wouldn't care much for someone like Cinder, she was obviously trafficked into slavery and tortured on a regular basis as a child.

Enchanted_Echo

wait WHAT I had no idea about that! I listened to her covers of Mirror, Mirror and Red like roses (plus watch her VTuber channel on occasion) That's a neat fact to learn, thank you

Kitsune Kokoro

And also the Colossus of Rhodes, given his Semblance

Liam Gradwell

I admire Elijah acknowledging that what happened to Cinder was shitty, but still doesn’t justify everything she has done. You have to see from both sides of the coin and still try to do the right thing. 💜

Zirkumflex

We kinda knew Cinder's backstory beforehand with her being based on Cinderella, but seeing it was still heartbreaking. As you said it does not excuse Cinder's behaviour, but it certainly explains it. Note that the huntsman that trains Cinder is named (in the credits) Rhodes. His semblance is to coat his skin with metal. As we all know there exists an X-Men with the name Colossus. Combine for a fun reference. Also I find the Neo shirt hilarious (for unspecified reasons).

Bug Catcher Jacky

To this day I don't quite understand the Ozpin hatred so many characters have. Most of the blame he gets seem to be from things he didn't do, rather than things he did. I'd argue Mr. Tintman over here is already a worse man and he's not nearly as ancient as Oz

CrowOfAFeather

Eh, I have my reasons, of which I can't elaborate. x)

Wil DeYoung

Maria coming in with the Alien reference. W Maria.

Bryan Forquer

To be honest, Elijah handled the Penny scene better than I expected. Episode 8 of this volume is the 100th Episode of rwby! Also the first 7 episodes of this volume are considered as the tamer half! You are definitely not ready for the second half!

SK- Eferthigra

its like penny said in season 7 "it'll be just like beacon again" careful what you wish for I guess

Icebelle

I’m on my time of the month so the whole penny and her dad scen BROKE Me!😭😭😭😭😭😭(and Cinder but ya know🤡)

Costia Rose

Winter is still my favorite character XD

man-of-bvz1n3ss

I like to interpret Emerald's feelings for Cinder as more of a desperation for maternal affection due to how that parallels Cinder's own feelings for Salem, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's romantic stuff in there too. The emphasis on Pietro learning to let go of Penny wasn't really something I had picked up on before this Volume, and I kinda wish we saw more of it in V7. Honestly, it's never quite explained how Salem got the Grimm River, but my guess is she had the whale drink a bunch of Grimm juice. Cinder's backstory is... intense. You were saying "No wonder" WAY before we get to the real stuff. Forced to endure torture for years on end, waiting for some nebulous point in the future where everything will be made okay. But that contrast between the longing and the present torment was enough to send her over the edge. She's utterly insane, and it's awesome. Also, Rhodes, seriously? You give an abused child a weapon and leave her alone for years on end? That definitely wouldn't have ended well. Salem shows she's smart here. She knows that if she pushes Cinder too hard, she'll turn on her like she did the Madame. But by showing her kindness, she's able to keep Cinder useful to her. As ever, the Monstra is utterly terrifying.

man-of-bvz1n3ss

Well, the power armor she's wearing is kinda the only thing keeping her up right now.

Cinder's Apologist

ah that explains the name. never figured out why he was named Rhodes

Cinder's Apologist

YUP. really feels like more people don't give enough credit to v8 where it's due. just one bad thing after another, emotional gut punch after another. it does make you want to watch v3 for some lighthearted relief, eh?

man-of-bvz1n3ss

I agree with you on Neo, and I WILL elaborate: I feel like she doesn't really have much character, is VERY overpowered, and her motivation is always shifting about.

Christopher Pope

For perspective next week: 8x07 aired on Dec. 19 (a week after ch 6), but 8x08 didn't air until Feb. 6 due to COVID-related production delays. That's a 70-day wait.

Sir_Adamus

on the "Cinder not gunning for Ruby" thing - Cinder's going for power because she thinks she needs it to be free, not because she thinks she needs it to kill Ruby (she probably could absolutely kill Ruby with just the one set of Maiden powers, because her weakness to Ruby's Silver Eyes which is due to the Grimm attachments in her body, so she'd just have to be careful and sneaky). in volume 4, Salem specifically wants Ruby brought to her alive, as she orders Tyrian, and in volume 6 when Cinder's explaining to Neo her plan, she mentions that Salem has forbidden her from killing Ruby - but that Neo isn't under any such order, and that's the loophole Cinder is trying to exploit. but now she's gotten too over-focused on getting the Maiden powers and the Relics and getting back in Salem's good graces that Neo feels like she's getting sidelined from the original mission and being treated like a tool that Cinder can order to do whatever she wants

Enchanted_Echo

0_o, again I feel so conflicted about joining the RWBY fandom late because that sounds like torture considering what went down in the episodes

Elizabeth McLaughlin

Heck, probably the closest parallel to Cinder's life is *Winter* with the whole, abusive parent, flees and ends up serving a not-so-good mentor in Salem/Ironwood. The difference being of course a) Ironwood presumably didn't start off bat-shit crazy and b) Winter at least has friends/family who have a moral compass in Penny, Weiss, etc. Cinder has had . . . no one. It's one reason has the potential to be 'redeemed', if someone were to metaphorically slap some sense into her she might abandon Salem to pursue her own interests (probably never fully good, but maybe more . . .gray). Because if there's one thing Ruby and her simpler, kinder soul can do is be kind to others.

Luminaxtea

Iirc, after that Chapter 10 also got delayed because Texas was having a severe ice storm at the time that impacted production.

Anthurak

Here's one VERY important thing to consider/remember about Salem's goals. Oz DOESN'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. Remember, his whole spiel about her wanting to bring the Relics together to bring back the gods and end Remnant has ALWAYS been nothing more than his best GUESS. Which frankly has ALL the signs of turning out to be a red herring. The truth is that we, and the characters, still have NO IDEA what Salem's true goals actually are.

Vex Valor

I'd argue what Cinder did was self defense. They attacked her mercilessly for years and she finally fought back. It makes me wonder was there no sort of child protective services in this world or was the mom too powerful to touch? I feel like the huntsman should have helped her escape or after it happened, at least try to comfort her. She didn't need someone to attack her. He could have tried to calm her down and listen to her story and help her instead of assuming the worst in her so she became the worst because no one was ever there for her. Nora had Ren, but Cinder had no one.

CrowOfAFeather

Huh. Not what I was referring to, but yes. Greatly overpowered.

May

I can agree with that. As nice as Rhodes was, he should have taken Cinder out of that situation. You could see Cinders expression fall when Rhodes said “that’s all you’ll ever do” and pulled out his weapon. Probably not the best thing for him to do. Especially considering the circumstances unique and he had no clue what actually happened. For all he knew her stepmom could have tried to kill her, like damn at least ask what happened first. At that point Cinder could still have been saved from becoming who she ended up as, but he sorta fuck it up with the response. You could definitely view the killing of the stepmother and sisters as a sort of self defense. We don’t get to see what happened, but clearly the step sisters found her hidden weapon and told on her. Thus Cinder was surely confronted. Having a concealed weapon is clearly quite more extreme than just messing up chores. No telling how the step mom would’ve reacted, though obviously she’d at least electrocute her. She probably wouldn’t have killed her, but If I was in Cinders position I’d certainly fear for my life considering this is the same person that electrocutes her for minor mistakes. Regardless, just the ongoing abuse is a strong mitigating factor. If brought to court it may not be classified as self defense, but even so she’d likely get a lower sentence due to the abuse and her being a minor. I mean, honestly, if Rhodes had taken her out of that situation, she’d probably end up as a good huntress instead of a villain. Shame we didn’t get to see that reality. Either way, while there’s not an excuse to murder, unless it’s definitive self defense, the circumstances do matter. Unfortunately after killing Rhodes she sealed her fate.

PigeonThePerson

I like these episodes that show just a little bit of the brutal lives for people in Remnant. How, in this world of fantasy and incredible technology, there are starving orphans that are being sold into what is essentially slavery. I wonder what Remnant would be like now if Ozpin had joined Salem all those years ago.

May

Actually you know, obviously the creators don’t think about this, but from a realistic and scientific perspective, the amount of electrocution Cinder endured would surely have severe long term effects on her brain including personality changes. Additionally if this was real life, at least one of Cinder’s murders (Rhodes) definitely would’ve been considered self-defense, A 50% chance the mom would be too and a very small chance for the sisters based on the absurd amounts of true crime I’ve consumed lol. At very least her sentencing would be much less severe than your typical homicide case. Rhodes is a nice guy but like, oh my god, what was he thinking? I mean he already should’ve taken Cinder out of the house to begin with, since by all means it was not legal and there’s no way the stepmom would even try that hard to get Cinder back. But more importantly why did he turn on Cinder instantly? Dude had no information about what happened. For all he knew they could have tried to kill her. Like at least ask some questions before taking your weapon out on a child. It would’ve made more sense if Cinder instigated the fight, but Rhodes was the one drawing his weapon out first when Cinder didn’t intend to fight him. In my opinion, it’s when he drew his weapon when Cinder truly became Cinder. You saw her face change to sadness then anger right after he pulled out his weapon. Before that she still had a chance to be good, if only Rhodes had reacted differently. Of course nothing excuses Cinders actions with Salem, but man I wish we could see the alternate universe where Cinder actually becomes a huntress.

Angelus Lupus

I had to chuckle when I saw the Aliens reference

James S

I'm sure others have already covered at least some of this, but here are some quick facts: The huntsman who trained Cinder is named Rhodes, after the Colossus of Rhodes. His semblance, what you were saying was an aura of protection, is turning his skin to metal. But as we know, Cinder's semblance is superheating things (including metal), making his semblance pretty useless against her, since she's still basically cooking everything below the skin when she touches his iron skin. I'be heard the writers have gone back and forth on Hazel's story a few times; whether his sister was a younger sister that he practically raised, a twin, that sort of thing. But at least awhile ago what I heard as the reason that Hazel was so pissed at Ozpin was that, like Ruby, Hazel's sister should have been too young to enter a Huntsman Academy. Ozpin made an exception for her and took her in early... and then she died, not even on a mission, but a training exercise at the Academy.

.

I'd rather she pauses and then talk, than her talking over the show and risking talking over important nugget of information. I personally didn't find an issue with this reaction and the pausing. To each their own, I guess.

Vex Valor

I do want to learn more about who Cinder's stepmother was because I feel the only reason Cinder wasn't able to runaway with Rhodes or have some sort of law enforcement step in was because her stepmother was too powerful in the town to touch and had a hand in their government to twist it to any story she wanted it to be much like Weiss's father. Rhodes was willing to train her to help her, yet he didn't seem to want to get mixed up in the politics of saving her from them. Her stepmother finding a concealed weapon probably would have ended in a way harsher punishment than she ever received before. I could guess it would be locking her away "forever" if we want to take inspiration from the Cinderella story as finding the weapon would be akin to finding the glass slipper. If Rhodes had acted different and had comforted her instead of turning into another enemy, perhaps we would have had a Cinder who was good. Instead we got the one we have now because every adult in her life failed her miserably.

Konrad Dunbar

Maiden Bowl Part 3!!! Cinder does a lot of projecting onto Penny and has such an identity crisis during the fight! You can see it she shifts to using her classic bow and arrow to the very familiar spear she attacks with! glad you noticed! Cinder's always wearing a choker or covering her neck in some aspect! iirc Cinder's high femme look stems from her stepmom, which she associates with power + strength + control I've always said ilia to blake as emerald is to cinder lol! also emerald is connecting the dots, what salem's doing to cinder, cinder has done to her time and again!

Mitch

One thing that I have always found interesting about Cinder after this episode is she really is a narrative foil for Ruby. Both girls wanted to be huntresses but for different reasons, Ruby to be a noble hero who helped others just like her mom and Cinder so she could be powerful and free. One chose desired it for selfish reasons while the other was more selfless, though both are tied to some form of childhood trauma.

Alexis Cardillo

What I love about RWBY so much is how well it does at showing different sides so that you can understand both, like with Cinder’s back story and now the situation in Atlas

Lt. Waffles

"It's giving me the same feeling as volume 3" yea...hold onto that.

Hollyhock

I always find it so interesting that the whole femme fatale schtick Cinder has going on is because that's what she associates with power, both from the woman that trafficked her and now Salem.

Hollyhock

ALSO "You Atlas elites are all the same! You think hoarding power means you'll have it forever, but it just makes the rest of us HUNGRIER"

Hollyhock

In her volume 3 speech to remnant while hijacking Amity's broadcast she also points out how dangerous Ironwood having so much power is. Cinder is pretty woke when it comes to class politics. I feel like she could have done great things if someone other than Salem picked her up

Hollyhock

The hotel was in Atlas, so i think Cinder's story speaks more to the politics of Atlas hence why it was put in this arc. The authorities likely just looked away because Cinder's trafficker was a powerful woman. There's a shocking amount of cases in real life of people taking kids out of foster care or adopting internationally just to abuse the child. Especially on remnant there's likely a lot of orphans from grimm attacks that local orphanages are happy to get rid of and just hope the rich buyer will pass some of the wealth onto the child

Enchanted_Echo

Oh yeah I think I've heard about that, curious how release schedule for Volume 10 will go even though that's going to be a bit ways away before we see it

Zero Blazer Gaming

When you get to Chapter 6 of Volume 9 make sure you re-watch the intro song. You won't be disappointed. Majorly antsy for that episode

NamelessSoul

Shit goes down in 8. Shits kinda consistently gone down since 3 but heh CRWBY love to step it up.

General Tacticus

"We have... how many more for frickin' Volume 8? I don't even know... not too many?" That was episode 6 out of 14 :3

Azzora Rose

I've always found it funny how Cinder is my absolute least favorite character in the show, from both the godawful writing around her character to the things she did back when they weren't such a glaring issue with her character, yet her weapon is my favorite in the whole show. Two swords that turn into a bow is just too interesting of a weapon design for me

Azzora Rose

Volume 3 did not miss with basically any plot points, but volume 8 most certainly took some wrong turns and has its plot holes. That's why people don't credit it as much. There's as much I love in this volume that I hate as well. I agree that the SCALE is bigger in V8 for sure, but the story itself is messier than 3 imo

Azzora Rose

I think it's because they spent over 8 years making her out to be a horrible person, so finally explaining (though admittedly, missing some crucial parts of said backstory to make ME care, personally) why Cinder is like that, people will jump on the bandwagon that this is an attempt to garner sympathy for a redemption

Azzora Rose

I honestly feel like they DID use the Cinderella part as a crutch, because it's straight up a ripoff of the original farytale. Cinderella grows up getting used by her stepmother and stepsisters, and ends up killing them at the end. The ones from the farytale had actual motivations, too, and these ones in RWBY are faceless nobodies who are just one dimensional people. They could've changed that if the whole episode was dedicated to Cinder's backstory. In fact the very notion of the stepmother in RWBY enslaving a human and not a faunus, who they have SIGNS in there showing discrimination against them and would make it much more believable that nobody tried to help her, is quite illogical to me as well. I love RWBY, but this volume and especially this episode is a real mixed bag for me. It doesn't help that I've spent years absolutely despising Cinder because of her nonexistent threat level and motivations. It just makes this feel like too little too late

Azzora Rose

I mean Neo is literally a sociopath and has tried to kill the main characters many times; she straight up was about to stab Yang through the chest before Raven showed up to save her daughter in volume 2. She's my absolute favorite character in the series next to Penny but I'm not going to pretend like she isn't as much of a villain as most of the other bad guys in RWBY

General Tacticus

"You look great, Glynda... um... hi..." Just curious, where does she rate on the mysterious List? <.<

May

I know the people in Atlas don’t care about slavery, but I thought it was still illegal (just not enforced). Regardless, I just don’t see anyone putting effort into finding a missing slave, so I’d expect a good huntsman to take her away.

Ryan

A random thought occurred to me: Winter and Cinder are about the same age. If Cinder had stayed the course and been accepted to Atlas Academy, they could have been roommates. Fanfic writers, you know what to do.

Ronix

you know if that huntsman was truly good he would have taken her away the second he saw she was being abused and not leave her there for a few more years of torture

TakeOnLana

You got a little victim blamey there with cinder for a minute, like yeah sure killing is bad but so is having a child slave you constantly abuse and torture for 4-5 years? I don't think you can really blame a child for eventually snapping and defending herself like that? Were Blake and Yang monsters when they killed Adam? Of course not, they didn't have a choice - and Cinder wasn't really given a choice in her situation either. Is the fact one killing was "legal" and the other not the sole arbiter of morality here? This all discounting the fact that while Rhodes was emotionally kinder to Cinder, he still basically accepted the premise that it was okay for her to be an abused child slave and did nothing to get her out of that situation? He basically enabled that abuse for, again, 4-5 years. If he had won that fight I have no doubt it would have ended with Cinder in the prison system and treated like dirt for the rest of her life (No education, no skills, murderer so probably ineligible for huntress education). Cinder did nothing wrong in her backstory. Certainly nothing that would warrant calling that child a monster. And while it doesn't excuse her actions later in life I certainly think it warrants a level of understanding for why she is so desperate for power and so dismissive of other people. No one was ever kind to her and the only thing she's ever experienced that provided safety is power. Not the law, not innocence or good behaviour, not other people, and definitely not huntsmen.

Phoenix_mercury

Yeah cinder was taught/conditioned that power=safety ergo more power=more safety, the logic sadly checks out

Phoenix_mercury

Late as heck but🤷 Rhodes is also a pun on road, as in the road to hell is paved with good intentions (whilst he did have good intentions but what he actually did was knowingly enable child abuse/slavery/torture, and it became impact over intentions)

Shaky Tail Studios

Yeah can't really blame her for developing a Hobbesian world view where people only do things because someone forced them to and things like mercy, morality and kindness are all lies.

Shaky Tail Studios

Yeah backed into a corner by her abusers with the threat of both violence and the prospect of losing her one chance at escaping them. Its 100% valid to snap.

Kev Rink

It's not victim blaming to say that experiencing trauma is no excuse to be a murderous bitch. And what she did to the sisters and step-cunt wasn't self-defense because she clearly attacked them first. And again, murder shouldn't be a response to an abuser. Take the high road. Don't sink to their level. As for Adam. He has killed many many people. Yes, he hurt Blake a lot and cut off Yang's arm, but that wasn't a revenge kill. That was a "don't let him harm anyone else ever again" kill