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That overview of the coming updates is still on its way, but there's no time for that, there's progress to discuss! This week's post will cover various updates, ranging from standard to exciting to a request for assistance from any resident coders.

The next update will be the last optional dungeon, which will also be the last real combat in the game (the epilogue is more story than challenge). I figured this is also a good time to reconsider various details about combat, rather than before when new scripts/details might have gotten in the way of people enjoying the final battle.

Now, in general I'm going to leave TLS's combat as it is, because whether people love or hate it, the general balance is part of the game's character. However, I do intend to make some tweaks in order to make it a better version of itself, which I'll get into below.

Uyae's Stances

I've never liked spending a whole turn on her stances, but when I first designed her combat, I didn't have options. Now I know about scripts that can change things: Uyae's stances are now free actions that don't use up her turn. There's a cooldown so she can't switch constantly, but you can adopt a stance and then still choose an action.

And since I included scripts for that...

New Skills For Everyone

Every main combat character is getting one or two new skills to supplement their main set. These aren't meant to deeply alter balance, just make all the characters a little more flexible and interesting. Maybe they get an ability to do something they usually can't, once per battle. Maybe they get a skill that's minor, but a free action that doesn't take their turn. That sort of thing.

The plan is for these skills to be learned at set character levels, which means they'll be just retroactive changes for those up to date, but I hope they'll make the game and the harem continue to feel dynamic throughout. The characters build their base skills early on for obvious reasons, but I hope between these and the synergy skills the game overall has a nice arc of growth. When I see people make comments about characters shifting in usefulness throughout the game I consider that to be good; a game with this many characters should encourage changing them up throughout its runtime.

There will be no equivalent boost to enemies, though, so on average these skills will make the game easier. Unless things really feel unbalanced, I think that's fine. The new skills may need some workshopping to get them all balanced, though.

Vhala Equipment

So, when I gave Vhala her base equipment, I wanted her to start with a good off-hand to imply she's competent and has her own history, but I underestimated how useful this item is. Thus, according to optimizers, this is still her best-in-slot item, which isn't what you want in an RPG.

I've added a bunch of off-hand equipment for her, ranging from alternate build items from different stores to items that only appear under certain plot circumstances, building up to superior equipment tied to major decisions/quests. Again, this is a minor thing that will be almost irrelevant to finished saves (other than going to buy one thing), but I hope it will improve the game overall.

LUK and RPG Maker

People say all sorts of things about the Luck statistic, but those familiar with RPG Maker know that it really doesn't do much. Some games go out of their way to invoke it more, and I've done a small amount with it in TLS, but it isn't the most important statistic.

So I was thinking... can't we just change that? The problem is, I think I'd need a coder to make this happen properly. I've seen the formula for LUK's influence on status effects and think it could stand to be altered a little so each point has more effect. But just changing the code directly is bad practice, and if we're already doing the script, maybe we could do a little more as well?

I don't know if I'll get any volunteers, or I suppose it's possible a script already exists, but this is one of the things I can't do myself. (EDIT: Got everything taken care of! Thanks much to Lord Forte.)

Anyway 

The combination of these things is just one of the components I'm working on for the next update! I do want to get as much of the game finished this year as possible, but I'm also looking forward to the long term and trying to make TLS the most satisfying version of itself that I can. Thanks for your support. ^-^

Files

Comments

Erdson

I always worry about Luck. And you've done a lot of tuning on your battles. On that 3rd battle in a row, with no save, against the Boss... I can tell you exactly how my luck is going to go. Maybe if there was a way to do a flag: this one is deterministic. It might make it more interesting on some of the other battles you thought would be pushovers.

Lord Forte Games

I sent a message regarding changing how luck works, in case that's useful. All of the other proposed changes here sound very good, I think. Making the stances instant definitely feels appropriate, and I'm generally in favor of more skills for everyone.

Andrew Harding

Sounds like some nice changes coming up. Are you thinking of targeting any of the new skills to give a little help on those fights some players are having trouble with (Erosia Last Stand comes to mind)?

sierralee

Really appreciate it! Will reply to your message once I have time to look into things.

sierralee

Not directly. My thoughts on new skills are heavily character-based: giving the characters a new capacity and/or something related to their personality or growth. However, given how many of these abilities increase burst capacities, they are likely to help in difficult situations.

Andrew Harding

Speaking of equipment: In the endgame, players may have very large amounts of Sx available via ProN to Sx conversion. If you don't want this, a cap could easily be justified lorewise (does the Bank of Stinedord actually have millions of physical Sx on hand? If they do, might Megail be concerned about the effect on the ordinary economy of demanding so much?). Conversely, if you're comfortable with players converting for large amounts of Sx, the ability to convert larger quantities woul be useful.

Q-Riff

I like that you're revisiting the combat skills and equipment. Vhala only has one upgrade to her starting bow and her offhand is best unchanged, yeah this gets kinda boring. It would make some sense that the elven kingdoms gives better gauntlets/bracers for her, makes sense you can't use a shield with a bow, not counting pavices but those are more like movable obsticles not personal shields. Also no swords better than durge for a long time, and Nalali is always awkward to equip.. Here's an idea: make it so there are two handed swords (and bows) you can use an off hand with that are not shields, If that's possible.

sierralee

Hmmm. This is tricky for me, because I've never loved the conversions: it's always been a concession to player request and logic. However, I think that there are few enough items to be purchased, relative to available Sx, that this isn't a huge exploit.

sierralee

Well, the Durge equipment was meant to be the standard for quite some time, but I suppose I could reconsider it. Not sure I can set up two-handers that way. It would have to not restrict but actually grant access to a new type of equipment, I think...

Dubsington

First off, as someone who is generally not very good at optimizing, I am generally OK with combat being slightly easier. But I can imagine this being an irritant for people that prefer harder challenges. I'm wondering if TLS would benefit from a sort of difficulty factor that could be built into some of these new changes. This could impact the cost or stats of new items (or lock them out?), but allow some sort of achievement at the end of the final dungeon, similar to iron man badges. The idea would be that people who don't want the game any easier would have a button they could hit + associated bragging rights, and the rest of us can enjoy our buffs in peace :)

Alistair

Honestly all these combat updates are gonna make a new playthrough feel fresh. I'm excited to upgrade Uyae from heal bot, to actual party member.

AnythingAtAll

I wasn't surprised to see LordForte reaching out lol. All of these mechanics you describe work wonderfully in his own game (Noblesse Oblige). And since I know how well they can work, I'm definitely excited to see them in TLS too!

sierralee

I'm not sure. Difficulty levels generally need to be planned from the start, and I'm not sure I have it in me to balance that much - the auto-balancing I put into the final battle may be about my limit with such a long, established game.

Hansworth

Can endgame saves only buy Vhala’s new equipment in stores or do we retroactively get the ones given from earlier quests?

sierralee

They're actually all purchased, some just only appear in stores if you did different quests. It's mostly things like boosting the Unpeople leads to more items appearing in the Unperson HQ in Ramasta.

Hansworth

Okay, so it works like the bow then. Gotcha.

Dubsington

Oh, I was referring to just these recent additions, not the existing loot we acquire along the way. It sounded like you already had everything balanced, but then were going back and adding some minor buffs. That sort of thing will be very hard to test, hence my suggestion. It would be a weird asymmetry to have a difficulty setting that only impacted such a tiny bit of the game, though.

DankPotatoes

I think it's fantastic that you are retroactively adding some new skills! Just 5 minutes ago I completed yet another playthrough of the game, where I really tried to challenge some of my usual party combinations and what party members and skills generally concider to be the best. I'd be glad to share some thoughts on what I have found to be really strong, and who/what I just never really use.

DankPotatoes

Durge is outclassed in early chapter 3 by Sylvan Blades, which isn't that long of a wait, since the earliest you can buy Durge is the end of chapter 1. Personally I think the transition is fine. I'd much rather have +15 Attack and +25 Agility, than +10 Defense and +10 Magic Defense from my sword. Though, I agree on Vhala being positioned for getting better weapons. I was surprised, both that Wendis wasn't selling Sublime Bows, and that Vhala's own quest didn't provide some new offensive tools for her.

DankPotatoes

I honestly think most of yall have been underestimating Uyae's utility for years. Two Zirantian Claws can turn her Takedown skill into such a potent weapon, that it almost manages to match Robin's lances in damage on most enemies, for pretty much all of chapter 3 and 4. And by 5, she gets new tools. I almost never use her for healing. Her, Robin and Varia can make short work of nearly every standard combat encounter for a looong time, after she joins

sierralee

Feel free, though my final decisions will be based on the combination of all input plus my own feelings about balance.

DankPotatoes

Cool! -In general, I have found that AOE attacks almost always underperform, even in encounters where they are supposed to be the be the better option. Take the boss-fight against the bandits in Varia's hideout back in Chapter 2, right after recruiting Altina, for instance. Despite this fight looking like a clear setup for Altina to use some Storm Spells, Robin still feels like the better option, (With the same equipment) because she can remove the biggest threat, every turn, before they attack. Altina's Storms can only cause minor wounds on all enemies, which doesn't help you defensively, and exposes your team to more damage, every turn. Even later in the game, in Tower Regions where having multiple elemental mages on the team helps, I almost always find myself using Altina/Riala's single-target spells, for their ability to remove threats before they become a problem. Therefore, I believe skills like the elemental Storms, Ginasta's Faux Retribution and Uyae's Shockwave could use some minor buffs. -A lot of damage-oriented synergy skills feel rather unremarkable, in contrast to the skills you already have available. I don't think I have ever seen Uyae's Explosive Palm do more damage than Takedown, on a roughly balanced ATK/MAG build. Hilstara's Mighty Bash is outcompeted in damage by Aegis Assault, and if I my goal is to inflict Status Effects, I want Simon to use Unified Strike, since he can do it before the enemy acts, unlike Hilstara. Aka's various elemental stabs almost never see use, since they hit less hard than a regular Lunge does, and if I'm fighting foes with a weakness to that element, Robin, Vhala or Yarra already do much more damage than Aka can, with that element. Most players likely already have deeply ingrained patterns in how they use each character, by the time they start to unlock synergy skills. And honestly, the fact that synergy skills are at the bottom of the skill menu, means that I often just pick my usual choices, near the top of the menu, to avoid spending time scrolling. It sounds like a strange contributing factor, yet analyzing my own behavior, while playing, I find that where the skill is located in the menu, impacts my choice. I feel like if you want more people to use synergy skills, they need to be noticeably better than the skills players already have gotten used to. -In the lategame, most healing skills are pretty pointless, because of Simon's Support Allies effectivelly being able to do more things, more effeciently in the same turn. Carina in chapter 4/5 is almost only in the party to set up defensive buffs against bosses, because Simon can heal about as much as she can with the Incubus Glove AND ressurrect downed allies on the same turn. A simple heal spell from a mage in the lategame, can also recover almost all HP for any ally, so Robin's Healing Lance is superfluous. -Uyae's rewards from her harem quest, while conceptually fun, are very weak for that point in the game. A single-target healing spell will barely every see combat-use at this point in the game, and her regular heal can do just as good of a job in most situations. And mana palm, like explosive palm, is utterly outcompeted by Takedown in terms of damage. -You've probably heard this a million times, but Robin's lances are an unbelievably powerful tool. To the extent that she is in my party for 95% of the encounters in the game, if I am not experimenting. The right lance can single-handedly kill at least one enemy in almost every encounter in one turn, from chapter 1-5. And because of elemental coverage, she almost always hits a weakness on top of the insane "100 + a.mat * 12 - b.mdf * 3" damage calculation. Robin is the perfect magical attacker for nearly any encounter and boss fight. I hate saying this, because I love spamming lances, as it trivializes some of the prolonged sections of the game, but if you want to equalize the used player party members a bit, you *might* wanna nerf them. -Lilith is actually pretty fun to use, but her skills aren't created equally (duh). Her Vhala synergy, Flurry of Flurries, often outcompetes her damage from even Robin's Fart of the Gods, which costs 555MP. I think you may have underestimated just how powerful many multi-attack skills really are in this game. From Varia's furious strikes, to Uyae's Takedown to Nalili's Orgy of Blows. They are the strongest attacks each of these characters posseses in most situations. -I have struggled to find usage for Hilstara for as long as I have been playing this game. On the surface level, having a tank available, who can redirrect attacks should be a great boon, but I almost never find her necessary, since two stacks of defensive buffs from Carina provides enough defensive coverage for nearly every tough fight, while also leaving a party slot open for a person who can deal out tons of damage. Aegis Assault was a major, much needed upgrade for Hilstara, allowing her to be more than a one-trick pony. But it only comes in chapter 5. So what I'm saying is, if you are adding new skills, available from earlier chapter, Hilstara could really use one of the stronger ones. My general feel of the characters: Consistently top tier: Robin Starts as top tier, drops a bit in the lategame: Varia Starts as good, becomes top tier in the lategame: Simon Consistently great: Riala, Uyae, Vhala, Lilith Pretty much just for bossfights: Carina, Aka, Qum Situationally useful: Altina, Nalili, Yarra Never the best in her field: Ginasta Hilstara: Hilstara Keep in the mind, that this is all from the perspective of a player who tends to optimize a lot, and who knows most enemy weaknesses very well. Some of my experiences obviously don't apply to a new player, or an underlevelled, underequipped party. Either way, I hope it provides at least some useful insight!

midorigreen

Sounds good, after investing a number of hours in this game I can share my own options though unlike some other posters I'm not really a minmaxer and don't really subscribe to the option of maximum damage at any cost like some of the guides do. When it comes to who is "Best" I find that can be some what situational especially when the game often splits the party up and throw different combinations and challenges at you. Simon is a solid generalist with good physical attacks, a strong healing secondary roll and some strong situational status effect/crowd control abilities which is good because you'll be using him 90% of the time. He's doesn't really need a new skill throughout much of chapters 3 and 4 and just keeps getting better with new equipment that buffs his SP rate. If I had to offer a skill suggestion it would be something late game that uses up a large chunk of SP. Aka is primarily a boss killer, but she is still pretty useful overall. How useful will often depend on how easy it is to land status effects. Deathblow is fantastic for quickly eliminating dangerous mobs if it lands and Forceful Lung does pretty good damage overall if it lands a critical. To be honest given how luck based most of her skills are it feels like she would benefit the most from the luck rework. As for new skills pretty much anything would switch things up for her. Most of her synergy skills are elemental stabs and a single target heal which can be useful given her speed letting her heal a low health ally before ANY enemy attack. Robin is an overall Beast being able to easily kill bosses and mobs as was highlighted in an above post. Her one weakness is low health/high damage enemy swarms that create a damage race she can't win by herself. I wouldn't give her an AOE skill to deal with this weakness though. Her new skill shouldn't tread on the specialties of anyone else in the party given how good she already is. I would probably give her some sort of single target buff skill. Better than the AOE buffs of Qum and Carina, but on a potentially short duration forcing her to split her focus between buffing and attacking. Yarra is actually a character I really like to bring along against mobs all the time. Her Haze of Sex AOE skill is better than Riala's at shutting down a large group of enemies especially when combined with Simon's own Commanding Presence skill. She can top off an allies MP and keep them going against multiple groups of mobs without having to worry about conserving MP for a boss. Her elemental whip synergy skills deal almost as much damage as Robin's elemental lances. Her main weakness is she doesn't really synergies well with most boss killer teams. For a new skill can I just suggest that it makes use of Yarra's attack stat in some way. One weird thing about Yarra is that between the Reborn Whip and the First Slut Pin she gets +80 attack, but all of her skill only use her magic stat making the extra attack feel somewhat useless. Qum is in a pretty good spot overall as a solid healer and offensive buffer with a little SP recovery on the side. Honestly, given the fact that she buffs offense and already has a pretty powerful offensive synergy skill with Robin I don't think her new skill needs to be offensive. I think that a better option would be to add the equivalent of Mass Heal as a straight spam-able AOE heal. Qum's Arousing Aura is a powerful buff and a decent heal all in one, but it lacks the HP recovery to deal with catastrophic damage to the whole party that would usually require Simon, Carina or Uyae using there AOE heal as well to fully recover. She has Orgasmic Thoughts and Illusory Orgy to act as AOE heals for the whole party, but Orgasmic Thoughts can only be preformed once per battle and Illusory Orgy requires a full 100 SP in order to use, making it difficult to rely on for continuous AOE healing. Hilstara is in a weird place throughout chapter 4. After Chapter 3 most player will have at least the Mammoth Armor equipped letting her act as a damage sponge at the cost of her offensive potential. She has only two offensive skills and one of them Bash becomes completely useless after equipping the Mammoth set making her go last and wasting the stun if it lands. She's still pretty good against bosses with her ability to soak up single target attacks and buff the party in a variety of ways, but she struggles outside of certain team comps until Aegis Assault lets her even the score and even lets her almost solo certain bosses. She needs something in chapter 4 that will keep her viable outside her preferred team comp though I'm not sure what that could be. Altina is another character in a weird place as she is overshadowed by Robin and Raila, but it's also acknowledged as part of the narrative. The weakness of her AOE skills has already been pointed out and looking at the damage calculations(a.mat*5-b.mdf*6) I can see why. The AOE attack will do a lot of damage against an enemy that doesn't have a lot of magic defense, but that stat is difficult to track unlike elemental weaknesses and often times when face enemy mobs you're likely facing a mix of enemies with there own elemental weaknesses and lowering Altina's AOE damage potential even more. She has another issue where due to her ability to equip Sexual Armor and Headgear most build her for a high magic-low defense setup. I do the same, though I usually try to balance magic and defense as much as possible so she doesn't go down after just one attack. This kind of setup is easier for the Succubus with life steal or a dedicated healer like Qum instead of an almost purely offensively oriented mage like Altina. Varia is one of the team's go to boss killers along side Robin and she's the glass cannon. Blade Dance can decimate a boss if you get lucky, and Furious Strikes is also a solid damage dealing skill at a much lower cost making it effective against mobs. How she plays often depends on if you Reshaped or Dominated her with Reshaped being better balance towards survival instead of the raw damage of Dominated. For a new skills you would probably need a different one for both options though if you wanted to keep it thematic have the skill be based off the luck stat. Carina is pretty solid overall. While Simon does come into his own as a healer if you have the Incubus Glove, Carina's defensive utility and reliability as a secondary healer never really goes away especially if you need Simon to focus on other tasks like damage or stalling. Giving her Smite has also fixed her main problem of a lack of damage options while the party is at full health. I could see two different skills that would augment her existing skill set. The first would be some sort of enemy buff purge designed to prevent an enemy from double buffing themselves and one shot the party. It probably wouldn't debuff the enemy just remove the buffs. The other would be some sort of buff to the parties max HP to further increase survival. Nalili has two builds you can use depending on if you equipped the Tormented Shield or not. Using the Shield turns her into a powerful damage dealer that takes at least one turn to ramp up if she equips the Charm of Great Perversion, but it limits several skills like the healing of her Masturbation skills or high SP skills like Sexual Aegis. Without the shield she does less damage, but can equip a Buttplug and is able to go all out right at the start. I'm not sure what sort of skill would mix things up for her, but I would recommend any skill take the Tormented Shield build into account. One other thing you should look at is a few more Sexual Accessories for Nalili and Qum who only have a paltry selection. Uyae is a pretty solid unit overall that plays a little like Simon with a number of physical offensive skills and magical healing skills. I can't really say too much about the changes to her Auras, but I will say that the skills she learns from her request feel more like side grades design around a Uyae specializing in either attack or magic. Vhala is a solid unit overall with tools that let her debuff bosses and powerful mobs, inflict anti-sex damage and some decent attack skills. You're already dealing with her equipment issues, but one nice thing about her armor and helm is that she is free to equip whatever specialized accessory she likes. As for a new skill Vhala already has a good mix of single target offensive and AOE debuffing skills so maybe another support skill of some sort. Raila is honestly the one character that probably doesn't need a new skill. She is already pretty stacked for options. Ginasta could really use a new skill. I don't really think she's a bad as some say, especially once she gets all her unique equipment and the Wild Armors. Between Tactical Strike, Suppressing Strike, Neutral Strike and Tyrant Strike she has a good set of single target physical attacks and high attack to make use of them. I haven't really had much chance to make use of Lilith yet so I can't comment of her, but having at least one consistent skill that doesn't rely on the rest of the party would be nice.

sierralee

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts in detail! You made a few interesting points, and my own ideas for new skills are all over the map in terms of being near or far from yours, so I'll be curious what you think once you see them. ^-^