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March 4 Update (Patreon)

Published:
2018-03-04 17:58:11
Edited:
2023-01-22 17:27:49
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Bad news on Steam: after the bugs and secondary issues were resolved, Steam rejected Desecration of Wings again. All they stated was their boilerplate "pornographic depictions" message. This was for a version with zero images and zero sex text (all scenes just fade to black).

This is no longer merely a frustration - honestly, I am not in a good place right now. This reinforces a number of things I've been feeling negative about and amplifies some sources of stress in my life.

Since it's unclear how long this will go on, I am changing my priorities. There's no sense delaying a finished game from being given to patrons - if you're on the $10 tier when you read this, you should have received a copy. See relevant message/thread.

Relevant to everyone: I intend to finish the TLS update next, though what I have so far is rather scattered. The next section will be intricate political maneuvering focusing on the non-combat characters. I hope that it will be healthy to focus on TLS for a while and that the release will be something everyone enjoys.

However, at times I will probably need to grasp for whatever productivity I can attain. If negative factors get involved, I will need a palette cleanser. Though the TLS update will come first, you should also expect something short and simple from me in the future.

Comments

Troqu

With all the absolute shit Steam shovels, they should really be looking forward to hosting one of the greatest RPGs in the last few years... Sorry this shit happened to you again Sierra. Know that some of us will always support you. You've made me a die hard fan in the time since I discovered your stuff.

Lusty Loiterer

I am a die hard fan too. I love TLS and DoW is very nearly as awsome. I hope these knocks don't keep you from moving forward with your excellent content.

EG Douglas

Meanwhile the Sakura Shovelware (possibly an upcoming title) continue to appear. Try to hang in there Sierra, it's the callous lurching of an uncaring demigod, not a personal rejection of you. Which doesn't make it any better, but I find it helps steer towards anger than depression. As for palette cleanser, I find explosions help. But then, that is my go-to for most things...

Desertopa

I hope it's not putting additional pressure on you for something you'd rather wash your hands of, but in the event that DoW gets a Steam release, I'll still buy a copy and review it. In my opinion, you're not just the best adult game-maker on the market right now, you're very probably the best story-based RPGMaker creator active now, and the only real luminary in your field. I'll do whatever I can to get your games the attention they deserve.

Fulminato

the problem of steam is the sheer number of new '''game''' launched everyday. some people think the system will be reach the critical mass and explode soon, it isn't my opinion, but the nearly steam monopoly on PC game start to strangle the system like the old publisher, and the 'early access' isn't the solution... SL a hug of understanding and the hope this no-good period will end soon.

Greentext Guy

"This reinforces a number of things I've been feeling negative about" Man FUCK that noise. Don't feel negative about jack shit. You make damn good games and you have a large and supportive fanbase. We're right here with you man. As for steam, well I'm not sure what to do with that honestly. Wish there was something I could do to help but there isn't. Maybe try smashing your head against steam support until you talk to an actual person? Dunno. Either way, if you ever need a pick me up stop down by the weg threads on /aco/. People are always talking about how great your work is on there. Trust me, people there don't complement things often.

Bladestorm

I am sad to hear that steam did that to you, this game when I tested it was an amazing gem and a wonderful rpg when you release it fully I will buy it to show my support. I wish I could do more to help but here is a virtual hug I hope it helps (づ◡﹏◡)づ

Jens Mikli

I know it's sombre supportive comment time but if I may interject: Yay! Video game!

sierralee

I definitely won't let it stop me from moving forward! I may not be as focused while I try to power through this stuff, but I try to stay on track and keep producing content.

sierralee

Oh, that's very kind of you to say! And supporting on Steam is very generous of you. I never want anyone to feel like they should, since regular supporters are giving me more than the equivalent amount of finished content. But all forms of help that get the game to a wider audience are much appreciated!

sierralee

Ah, I never know whose comment to respond to - but believe me, it means a lot to me to know that so many people care about the kind of work I try to produce. Thank you all!

EG Douglas

I may be speaking for too many people and dialling in on too much nuance, but I would say it's less "the kind of work you try to produce" and more 'the work YOU SPECIFICALLY produce.' You are very good at what you do.

Lord Forte Games

Ugh, a pox on Steam. I wish there was something I could do to help you on that front. :/ It's really frustrating how idiotic they're being about this whole thing. I won't repeat the things that make it especially frustrating because I doubt that would help, but it really does make one wanna punch a paper pusher at steam... I hope that working on TLS is more enjoyable at least, and I look forward to the update. Will probably also go through DoW again at some point as I'm curious how the art came out--so thanks for the release! For what it's worth, if one differentiates pornography from art by redeeming social value, I'd be hard pressed to think of someone whose adult content comes down more on the art side than yours. Pity Steam seems blind to that.

Greentext Guy

I second what EG Douglas said. Your games have a very distinct and very enjoyable type of writing and world building that you can't get elsewhere.

sierralee

I very much appreciate the vote of confidence! But for the sake of clarity, I want to specify what I intended with that sentence - wasn't meaning to imply that you guys are here to pick up a generic commodity I produce. I actually had a positive meaning in mind. By "my kind of work" I meant the effort I put into writing the characters and world, my attempts to include significant gameplay, and the occasional twists or subversions. There are people out there who say (implicitly or explicitly) that they don't care about this sort of thing and I'm wasting my time. It's validating that other people want what I've poured so much effort into! Having anyone care about my work is great, of course. But having people care about it on a deeper level, comment and discuss the substance of it, and so on... that is something really special. So again, thank you. ^-^

DukeLeto7

Well, here's an idea that's likely a waste of time but might not be. Ask the ACLU for help. <a href="https://www.aclu.org/about/affiliates?redirect=affiliates" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.aclu.org/about/affiliates?redirect=affiliates</a> Looking at their website on censorship most of their cases have been directed against government censorship, but a monopoly or monopsony (Steam is close to both depending on which direction you are looking at it from in terms of game consumption or production) might be deemed to be exercising censorship on a practical level just as effectively as a government agency. More practically, Steam is being ultra-conservative on adult content specifically to protect itself from lawsuits, so the mere threat of a censorship lawsuit might be enough to get them to be a bit more adaptive. Another strategy that may be worth looking at is one the ACLU recommends in its webpage on censorship "private censorship campaigns are best countered by groups and individuals speaking out and organizing in defense of the threatened expression". <a href="https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship</a> Try and find other content creators that Steam isn't giving a fair shake and make some noise. As Fulminato noted above, the problem comes down to one of Artificial Idiocy in addition to litigation paranoia. Too much content comes through to have a human review everything. There's no person actually passing judgement on you, or if there is, the judgement is very superficial. I won't object to more work on TLS though. ;)

Lord Forte Games

Thing is, Steam isn't that censor-happy in general. That's what makes this so irritating. (Ref: <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=SakuraGame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=SakuraGame</a> ) I also recently played a VN on there that had sex scenes in the unpatched edition with essentially uncensored images that hovered on the edge of "not quite showing everything." I think you'd have a hard time making a case for it being an overall policy issue.

DukeLeto7

Hmmm... Dunno then. Game publication ain't really my metier.

Argenten

That really sucks Sierra, I haven't gotten to play DoW as much as I'd like between work and family matters but it is a very enjoyable game and something Steam will regret not having in their offerings in short order I am sure of. I always enjoy exploring your games and seeing what character and plot developments I can find and the smut in it is a very nice bonus without being a crutch that the games rely upon like so many other devs.

sierralee

Appreciate the consideration, but I don't want to escalate that much. My next steps will be to request a more direct response (already done) and to submit a substantially modified version of the opening (though that's just a guess). But yes, it's the double standard that makes this frustrating. The first time, I figured that maybe one of the images I left in was decrypted and considered offensive. But the most recent rejected build was far tamer than many games on the store. Finally, while the process is indeed normally automated, I know I'm being rejected by a human in this case because I got a message saying that the automated process failed and that manual review was required.

DukeLeto7

Then never underestimate the laziness and stupidity of humans doing thankless jobs for low pay. :)

Bladestorm

Fundamentally I found your work very endearing to me and has help me think about concepts I've sometimes don't think about, also managing money got to get those sweet maxing assets. Anyway me a couple of people have decided to make a game on rpgmaker this summer and when trading ideas or how to make a game enjoyable I keep coming back to this and all that I found unique about it.

Serpentking

Well always remember you are making amazing work, I love playing your games, engaging with your stories and characters. I don't think I have found a game of yours I have not liked. TLS is just a fav for many reasons, it took my attention to your work, and is one of the reasons I became a patron and will always want to support your work. Never doubt that your work is amazing and I will always look forward to seeing what your going to come up with next;. You have some good support here. Don't push yourself too hard and keep your head up, things will work out just maybe not the way you wanted it to. Hugs

austin fagan

that is weird considering i know they have all the sakura games and huniepop on steam and those are pretty much porn so that doesn't make much sense why they wouldn't let DoW get on steam

Vitreous Humour

I second the sentiment that you should really just try not to let the Steam thing get to you. You've clearly proven yourself to be one of, if not the most productive, creative western H-game auteur out there. Time and time again you come out with games with amazing plots, great twists, interesting mechanics, and steamy scenes. Don't let little setbacks get you down, you still have a ton of people supporitng you.

Retromancer

Well, I went and bought DoW on Nutaku since Steam had rejected it. As a long time Patreon, I think I could have asked and you might have given it to me for free or a reduced price, but I wanted to pay - both to give you more money and to raise the visibility on that platform. My question is - you still get money from that right? Because I know people ( for some good reasons) hate that platform (or maybe the other porn/hentai specific platforms you may have posted the game to), but if you are not totally getting ripped off then I will buy your games on those until Steam pulls its head out of their ass. If this is just a matter of exposure I suppose that nothing can compare to Steam right now but hopefully word of mouth can get your games more love. They deserve it.

sierralee

You're definitely due a free copy! Even if you stopped pledging today, I'd happily give you my next several games. But thanks for buying on Nutaku! I do get profits there (just a little worse than Steam) and they have a sales ranking, so sales can draw more attention to a game. Generally speaking, I'm happy for people to get my games via whatever channel is convenient for them! But if you want to know from my end, Steam exposure is most important and itch.io has the best profit margins (also pretty convenient for users).

Leveler All

steam has issues, i have hear over time how they can be pushy with some games, more if they don't "look" like games, i can peek and Grey and dow been push to march, that say i much rather get them here, if only they were more flexible on steam, i don't use nutaku anymore, and they have the bad issue of not letting you re open an acount if you close it, also time to jump to the 5 train.

Trevor

I hate yo hear that you are still having difficulties with Steam. From an outsider's perspective it seems like Steam is very inconsistent when it comes to small developers. I remember back when greenlight was still a thing and there was tons of crap on the store, but it sounds like things are different now. I hope that things clear up in the future. I get that Steam needs to be careful with pornographic material on their platform (damn you moral guardians) but I wish that they were at least consistent with it. All I can offer you is well wishes and internet hugs.

A1llas

I hate to hear that you're in a bad place, but I'm proud that you trust (perhaps wrong word) us enough to tell us about it. Steam can be a very irritating, but I'm sorry to hear it affects you so much. Let me know if there is anything I can do as complains from customers might carry more weight then the same complains from creators. I wish you all the best, know that you do have loyal fans here.

Darthjake

Do what you need to do to keep yourself healthy, we believe in you.

totesreal

Is Itch a viable alternative?

sierralee

It's a good store that I want to support! But Steam is simply orders of magnitude larger.

sierralee

The possibility that the opening is part of the problem is a theory I'm seriously considering, though I'm hoping for an actual answer. The existence of a brothel shouldn't actually prevent the game from being on Steam, but it's difficult to know what standards are being applied to me.

Foo Bar

Were the descriptions in the binary files at all? I'm going to take a wild guess that they might be searching with something like unix "strings" command.

sierralee

The thing is, Steam has explicitly told multiple other devs that they don't care about descriptive text. Most porn games with patches have all the normal text unpatched. Now, that doesn't guarantee that they're not being inconsistent, but it explains why I submitted a build with the text present (though inaccessible).

DukeLeto7

If things really get bad, you could try making passive aggressive edits for your own amusement. Like replacing all character art with images of the characters wearing Groucho Marx glasses, replacing all potentially objectionable text with Elizabethan euphemisms (ie. "nunnery" for brothel), finding an extremely bad text translation program to translate the game into Muppet Swedish (ie. the Swedish Chef), or go the anime dub route of removing all references to anything that might be objectionable. (Replace alcoholic beverages with orange juice or spring water, fighting with Care-Bear style Hug-Fu...) Then there's the Parker/Stone vs. MPAA route. Replace anything they ask to be removed with something even more outrageously offensive. Or you could just change the game's title to "Half-Life 3".

James

We love what you make. That's why we are here. Look forward to TKS and nifty palette cleansers.

No Escaping Destiny

I have to say yours is the only patreon page I feel safe about putting money toward. None of the other H-game patreon's have good track records for putting out a complete projects. I am sorry to hear the people at steam are so against having Desecration of Wings on their platform. I can understand how stressful getting jerked around like that must be. If you are handling both the marketing and the creation part of these games I hope you can look for someone who can take over part of your responsibilities. You put out enough content that you can consider yourself a small production company and it is really easy to burn yourself out if you are handling it all yourself.

sierralee

Haha, it shouldn't come to that. Did finally get a more specific reply, but will report on that once things are actually settled.

sierralee

Thank you very much for the words of support! Yo're right that wearing all the different hats slows production and leads to burnout. I would love to be able to disentangle the marketing side of this job and give it to someone else so I could focus on creation. So far, I haven't found a good way to actually do that, but it is something I often consider.

Coyote

Thank you for all the hard work you've done over the years. Your games and writing have given me a lot of enjoyment. I'm sorry you're feeling pressure and negativity, I understand how destructive that can be to a person. Please remember that you are a wonderfully creative and talented person and many, many people have and do appreciate what you create.

Zaknod

I believe they are turning it down for the basic premise of the content, and not to spite you nor to give you the run-around. The basic premise would be the 'pornographic' content depicting incestuous relations between mother and daughter as well as a futa and tentacle.....person. I know that warnings are always placed into games stating that there is content is for 18+ year olds and that some might be objectional content that if they do not wish to continue, to exit the game. That being said, with the anticipation of the release, coupled with the fan-base that started here, the possibility of releasing it on steam should be higher since word of mouth tends to spread around the net, and people tend to want to see it for themselves upon release. Sadly, the Steam Terms and Conditions seem to have certain milestones that need be met with before releasing a game on their site. I assume you have ste it to release as an 18+ Adult content rating and have looked for a low enough price due to the size of the game itself, as well as implemented an Age and Content Warning prior to the title screen(downloaded it, but haven't opened it yet) as well as a brief summary that discloses no content within the game but an overly generalized story description such as: 'It has been centuries since the world fell to ruin, but now a single woman must journey to save it from the hands its rulers'(could add some backstory and MC name, different races and rulers' races) rather than a detailed description of what is in the game. The usual rejection tends to be due to the description being too detailed or certain content being stated in the description. Unfortunately, I am not an expert at marketing, but I have limited experience with rejection due to these infringement policies. EDIT: Read the Steam Direct page #3 stated "Review processes. Building a release pipeline to support thousands of developers and millions of customers is a delicate balance. We specifically don't want an onerous and detailed certification process that makes it difficult for developers to release games, but we also want some level of confidence that games are configured correctly and aren't going to do unexpected things to customers' computers. So we have a couple of brief review periods where our team plays each game to check that it is configured correctly, matches the description provided on the store page, and doesn't contain malicious content. These processes shouldn't take more than a day or two unless we find something configured incorrectly or problematic." So it might be that the game engine configuration or the possibility that they are assuming it has a virus hidden in it somewhere. Cyber-crime is a real thing, and as a respectable developer, I highly doubt you would be so nefarious as to implant a virus within your games. That being said, denial isn't just a river in Egypt, it could be a blessing in disguise, just goes to show that you have a better ability to make an 18+ game than they anticipated.

DukeLeto7

Absolutely meaningless TLS nitpicking, part 3,953. During the Governing Yhilin phases, when you encounter the succubus hanging out outside the soldiers bar in the court who is a recruit for Yarra's "Forging Ties" quest (EV012 for New Yhilin's "The Court" map), Simon tells her: "Things will change the longer the Doomed King's reign goes on. But for now, please control yourself." Ought this not be "the Doom King's reign"?

DukeLeto7

Same deal as above, 1st encounter with the Succubus priestess of the Lustlord in Miner's Junction: Simon says: "I'm afraid the Doomed King will not be participating in your religion, b-".

DukeLeto7

And AGAIN, on confronting the Chosen camped out in Big Man's house/ 2nd HoP. Yarra says: "Maybe don't say that to the Doomed King's subordinates?" Imma gonna just make a list if any more pop up on my playthrough.

SEEQYR

My personal guess on the unknown element! Theoson harvesting, from the very START of the game. (I also just started a new playthrough - I want to see the alternative Altina/Varia scenes, and try to fight my min-maxing impulse.)