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Ouroboros + Stories Feedback Thread (Patreon)

Published:
2016-05-02 17:31:51
Edited:
2019-01-23 01:41:10
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

I'm changing my schedule because there's no reason to drag things out. All backers should have received links to both my stories, and $5 and above backers also have Ouroboros. If you didn't get it, possibly because your pledge was declined, just send me a message and I'll sort it out.

Ouroboros 

I'm going to resist the urge to say too much about the game here. It is what it is, disclaimers from me won't fix any problems that might exist. I will say that where TLS is meant to be a blending of game and adult content, Ouroboros is intended to be weighted more toward game. You'll see the plot reasons why there aren't sex scenes right off the bat.

Having said that, I do have some notes/questions in the game post-credits. Feel free to give me your thoughts along the way if you want, but if you finish please do answer those as well.

I would really like to make a version 2.0 of this, with full art, additional content, and more scenes. It would be a good way to test out artists as well as some of the new stores cropping up. That will depend on the reception the game gets, however.

TLS Prologue 

This is just a fun little story I've been wanting to do for a while, a glimpse of Simon during the war. If people like it, I may do wider-ranging stories in the future, though my focus will remain on the game. Anyway, two notes:

 - I hope to put this out publicly, maybe draw some people into TLS, but it needs a real name for that. I don't like naming, so I didn't bother thinking about it during my break month... anyone have ideas?

 - I intend to delete the coda with Yarra from the publicly released version, as it serves a different function.

OC Story 

Though this story uses many of the same fetishes we'll be using in our next project at Hreinn Games, it's not set in that world or in any particular canon. Just a little story I hope you will find interesting/hot. It also needs a real name. =P

Feedback

Yeah, please let me know what you think once you have time. I'm gonna be over here, fidgeting nervously, but I understand this is a fairly big block of stuff to drop on everyone at the start of a work week. No rush.

I am a little uncertain about doing an MV release. I've played other games before that crash due to file missing errors, and I'm not sure if the creators made a mistake or if there's some kind of pervasive bug that leads to games being compiled wrong. Also, I can theoretically compile Mac/Linux/phone versions if anyone wants, but I don't know if there's any desire for that.

Meanwhile, I'm polishing up the parts of Futa High I got made, the goal being a playable but incomplete game in a day or two. After that, it's full steam ahead with the next TLS release.

Comments

Wildeyes

Lucky for me, and your nerves, I at least have a day off tomorrow, so I should be able to play through enough of ouroboros today/ tomorrow to form some opinions and analysis. I'm on my phone right now, so I can't peak at your stories yet, but based on what you've said about your next project for Hreinn games, I have my hopes up for femdom.

Rafael367

Lol, I just wasted about 5 minutes just playing around with the jump command on the first screen. So far so good on engaging the player base.

sierralee

None in the story, I'm afraid, but I hope to have a solid amount of it in the game. And thanks for the feedback whenever's convenient!

sierralee

Haha, when I was playtesting I jumped around far, far more than was necessary.

ggonidakis

Currently playing the game...damn that's deep.

Seil

Hm... That certainly threw me for a loop. XD

Rafael367

One bug, NPC seems to tell me I'm trading a saw for a saw.

sierralee

You're right that it's a bug, but it WOULD be a fitting piece of a nonsensical trading quest to have you literally trade something for itself... >.>

Rafael367

Also the bell does not remove itself from inventory when you trade it to the soldier.

iamnuff

hmm. only 30 min in at the moment, but the vague hints that something's not right are drawing me in. Only problem is that the Living Statues in the ice dungeon are kicking my ass. I feel pretty stupid for spending all of my money on the fire armour on the assumption that fire beats ice, rather than buying the ice armour to protect me from ice. but now I don't have enough money to correct that mistake and I can't just level grind the problem away. As thing stand, I'm crossing my fingers for chests of gold. Oh, and MV was the perfect choice for this, because they havn't worked out how to cheat-engine it yet, so... I'm having to do it legit, and it's been long time. The revival thing is odd too, since it doesn't work if you die in gameplay, but you can get crushed with a rock in a cutscene and be fine. Unless it's a meta refrence to reloading a save. That'd explain why only the hero can do it. Not sure if the falling rock scene supports that though. Kinda hoping that revival is a NG+ thing, where I just start a new game, but get to keep my gear or something. If not I've probably rendered my game unwinnable by buying the wrong items. Edit: that's a no. Started a new game and didn't get any noticeable bonuses. Not even in the well. Guess that "across time" hint is either for NG+ or an ingame time-travel mechanic. Well, I guess I'm fucked. I'll start over and buy the fire sword this time. edit2: or not. i just got the enduring ring and while it claims to "slightly" resist all elements, I just dropped from taking 30 damage, to taking 6. This fight might actually be winnable.

A Zo

Hiya, is it possible to use the bomb bag on the rock in the lower corner of the beach?

sierralee

Thanks, this is useful feedback. I was worried the element balance might lead to problems if people didn't get the right equipment, but tweaked too much to be objective about it. Maybe I should clarify the fire/ice equipment effects in their shop text, since it's a logical mistake to think the opposite. Revival thing is mostly plot, but yes, loading saves is an example of it. The Enduring Ring has some elemental resistance, but it also has the highest defensive stats in the game. I did hope it would have uses, but let me know how things go for you. I'll have to think if I need to tweak this in other ways to avoid player frustration.

sierralee

It is indeed, you'll just need a way into the beach without going to the Stone Dungeon first...

A Zo

I think I did that. Did a 3rd cycle, woke the first girl up, but there's a few problems now. 1) Amiel doesn't give me 10 gold, and even if I do get the rest of the money, you just say that you could spend 40g if you chose to - and that's it. No option to actually buy it.

A Zo

Oh, I had to revive her in the cycle beforehand?

grizzlyThresher

I noticed a small, not sure if I'd call it a bug or what, but I'm on the second cycle, went most of the way through so that I have all three artifacts, went to the shrine thingy, went to talk to Amiel, and even though she isn't there it still plays out as though I'm talking to her. Like, the conversation is happening and her image and text show up, but her sprite isn't in her house. Just thought I'd bring it up. Also I found a slight grammar error, second cycle after touching the shrine, going to the pillar of fire in the area north of town says "These are a barrier meant to block my path." I believe you meant to say "This is".

Zyrus

Too much femdom out there as it is, I don't really need it in my games too.

Zyrus

Too much femdom out there as it is, I don't really need it in my games too. As for the TLS prologue... I'd love that. I've been very interested in seeing wtf actually happened during the war. For a name? Do you prefer symbolic names, or current events names?

iamnuff

Bug report: After beating V-whip girl in the ice dungeon (via gate-horn bullshittery) the next time I went into the ice dungeon her sprite was still there, even before she triggered the ambush.

Argenten

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who does this, I kept having to load because I found new and creative ways of trapping myself thanks to the jumping function. I'm freaking having nostalgic memories of Link's Awakening and that feather you can equip. Btw, Love the choice of MV, suits the game very well.

sierralee

Ah, you're right about Amiel not giving the 10 gold being an inconsistency. Will get it fixed in time. Regarding not being able to purchase the Bomb Bag, please be more specific. It seems likely you have found a combination of choices that can block off this path, but I need more information to track down the actual problem.

sierralee

Can you please be more specific? I'm unclear on which "shrine thingy" you mean and where you attempted to talk to Amiel when she didn't appear. Sprite and dialogue are completely separate, so such an error isn't surprising, but I will need more information to track down where this is happening and why.

sierralee

This is in response to Wildeye's comment? Otherwise, I don't think it's an element of the game or stories in this post.

sierralee

I'm afraid my sense of appropriate names is hard to pin down. Some kind of balance between symbolism, abstraction, and not being too on-the-nose, I guess. Though anything is better than nothing. It's hard for me to check message histories now... did you get the story? Everybody should have the links by now, even if Patreon is being unusually slow.

sierralee

Ah, I see that there's one permutation of that event where the switches don't get turned off right. I believe I have it fixed, though further testing will be required. Thanks for the report.

Can't Wait

SPOILERS, for Ouroboros anyways. SPOILERS! Serously, if someone is reading this who hasn't played it yet, you don't want to have this ruined for you. It's great. Anyways, awesome timing. I finally finish my contract and get some time off and this email lands in my inbox. First off, loved Ouroboros. I'll admit when I heard you were taking a break from TLS for side projects I was a little upset at first. I signed up for this patreon because of how much I loved the first chapter, after all. In hind sight though, I'm glad you made it. I still think I would have enjoyed a TLS update more, but it's a genuinely close call. I certainly don't feel cheated at all on my donation. Alright then, so the post script questions. I don't remember them all, but I know I played three cycles total. I feel like I missed out on some early game content because I hit the twist half way through my first cycle, when I realized you can jump over event spaces that stop you from travelling down certain paths. Honestly had I spent thirty more seconds the first time I likely would have gotten the twist before I even entered the first dungeon. Personally don't think you should be able to do that, but I liked the post-twist characters much more than the pre-twist ones so I don't mind at all. I enjoyed playing all the side bosses, they probably made up most of my play time in the game. I actually managed to cheese my way through the giant crevice bastard right after I beat the second dungeon with some help from Amiel (pre-twist). I didn't buy any of the elemental gear the entire game, other than the holy sword. Still I really loved every bit of it from start to finish. I loved the magic theory with Emantha, and the serious twist with Amiel really blindsided me in a great way, and Teira was lovable and much needed "normal" grounded person. Atreyan was a bit too much of a sissy boy pre-twist, but that just made the twist that much sweeter so it's hard to complain. Loved all the convo's in town post twist, though afterwards the town just feels like an empty sidenote, which is fitting I guess. Still makes me sad. Wish there was more interaction with whip girl. The tease of Atreyan asking her if he knew her made me wish she could wake up. I feel like it isn't made terribly clear how he knows that she's not real when he suddenly decides that it's okay to unload some stress on her. Somewhat disappointing that she didn't have more (I think). Also feel like I almost stumbled into the ending. It didn't take any purposeful or directed effort, just a bit of random wandering. ANYWAYS! Still loved it. BUGS! So there are several places in the game where you can jump over events that are supposed to stop you, or remove Amiel from your team. Maybe this was done on purpose considering how the story is set up, but what I know for a fact should not be in the game is the ability to jump into a few spots from which you can not jump out of. Namely the left side of the witches house, the right side of the fort next to the succubus (after jumping up the side of a cliff and walking along the top of some trees that also probably shouldn't be possible), and uhhh... shit. I know there was more than that but I'm blanking sorry. Little is misspelled during a conversation with Tiera ( I think it's the one during the ice cave escape). Whip girl remaining in place after beating her in the ice cave's without Amiel in my party during the following cycle. Atreyan commenting on how Amiel must be "taking care" of whip girl even during a cycle where I didn't wake up Amiel during the castle portion at the end of the cycle (which should have totally tipped me off to how wonderfully fucked up Amiel was going to be when she woke up). Did an extra cycle just to see if I could finish all the dungeons before I visited the castle the first time. Had Tiera leave my party to go dig a hole in the ice caves and then immediately left to go pick up the grate remover. Did the normal events for the ice caves with the grate remover and Tiera never rejoined and was effectively removed from my party (though she still managed to show up for conversations) for the remainder of the cycle. Fortunately that wasn't that long since all that was left was to walk to the castle and end it :P. I feel like there was more but I'm drawing a blank right now. I'll play some more and make another edit later probably. Now if you'll excuse me I need to figure out how to beat this trio of little dodgy fairy fucks.

A Zo

My first time around, I only got Emanthe. Second time, I decided to use the revive on Teira, right after we get to the castle, since she was still in her house. I got the rock smash HM, but when I tried to buy the bomb bag, Atreyan just snarks about it, and that's it.

A Zo

Oh, and it seems that I have to pay the full 100g for a bag, even though she mentions dropping 60g down payment.

Argenten

Not going to focus much on Ouroboros for now, still tweeking my first playthrough (little things of my own devising.) so I'll give a feedback on the stories. The OC story was great, gets the reader into the story without preamble but doesn't lose them either. There's a war, it's against ogres and similar beings, and it's not going well for the lead. Her own side looks just as dangerous as the opposition so she decides to go out on her own terms...only to find out the enemy terms are a lot more positive than she thought and she acclimates very well. The sex is well done but the way the plot advances solely through the MC keeps us just as invested in her learning about this sub-species of Ogre...and her eventual path towards creating something new with her influence on the leader and...let's call him their resident elder. For the TLS prequel, loved it just as much for what it does: Give us context, current at that, and immersion in the war that is only referenced in the game. It really highlights why Simon reacted as he did in the game, the level of doubt and weariness it inflicted on those that fought, and how Simon had to fight prior to becoming what he is now. It also gives us more insight and, dare I say, exposure to Wendis who really grows on you which adds to the suckiness of her being dead...aside from her being Simon's love that he lost. Also shows that she wasn't just a lovely lady but was a mage who fought just as much as her husband. Definitely looking forward to more stories set in TLS. As for the name for it, some ideas that come to mind include "The Grind of War." which has plenty of implications and references in the story. "Weariness." short and sweet but sums up the pathos of the story itself. "Hope burns still." Gives a more positive spin with focus on Wendis, Simon, and their love for each other.

Zyrus

I got the link. Most of Argentens ideas don't sit well with me. Which city/town is the short story set in? I didn't see anything about that when I read, I have some ideas for story names if I can get context.

Dream Fractal

I'd be very much interested in a Mac version of Ouroboros if it's not too much trouble. I run The Last Sovereign on my Mac using virtualization. I can also run Ouroboros using virtualization, but it runs slowly because of its higher graphical demands. I quite enjoyed the TLS short story. Titles are hard! Some title suggestions for the TLS short story: Lust is a Battlefield, The Incubus King's War, Lust War If you're intending the piece to serve as an introduction to The Last Sovereign's universe for readers, I figure that a title that straightforwardly conveys a core detail of the setting or story is probably your best bet. Speaking of titles, why is The Last Sovereign called The Last Sovereign?

grizzlyThresher

Sorry, the shrine thing in the section of the forest to the north that you can only get to after the first cycle, the one that initially restores Atreyan's memories. And as for the where, I had collected the three artifacts, went to Amiel's house before getting the memories, saw she was missing, went to the shrine , got the memories, and when I went back to Amiel's house the conversation occurred but her sprite was still absent.

Seil

Well, i haven't found a way to break the cycle yet, so there. But overall i can't say i like it very much. The whole thing seems meaningless, but maybe that will change after i can find a way to break it.

iamnuff

Shift+enter is a new line. took me some working out too.

iamnuff

Well, the ring allowed me to win the fight. I think the biggest problem (aside from getting the wrong armour) was that i spent most of my early money on two normal items at the shop. boots and a shield, IIRC. I very quickly found items for those slots that were better though, so that was 200 gold wasted.

iamnuff

On another minor bug: When fairy-girl (Amelia?) isn't in her house, you can examine her stuff and she'll respond like she's there. Before she awakens anyway, not sure about after.

Argenten

You get to burn a clown, this game is officially amazing!

Aluciz (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-25 01:00 one thing, can we change the hero's name for oroboros? since it's new game I was hoping that you might considering this option =p
2016-05-03 09:48

iamnuff

... Now I'm looking at it again, I'm wondering if that "What's your real name" dialogue is hinting that it's possible to awaken her too. Why do I always get these ideas when it's too late in the cycle to try them? I've already used all three thingies. I don't want to start over AGAIN. Maybe there's another in the shed dungeon? I didn't explore there since i got the super lantern. Honestly, the most annoying part of the cycle is beating the final castle. So many enemies to slow your progress and the key puzzle seems to be the only one we can't cheat our way around. Unless awakening Whip-girl lets you cheat past all the locked doors, or the barriers? hmm. Time to test.

sierralee

Hmm, I'll have to check this more, I suppose. I know that some variations of this do work, because I didn't notice a problem during testing and some people have already finished the game, but maybe there's a non-working variation I need to find.

sierralee

Understood. I basically didn't include any handling for the period where Amiel is out of the house, so I think once I include that these should all be fixed.

sierralee

It is probably too late, but if you haven't tried yet: no, you can't awaken her. Three awakening shrines, three potential characters to awaken. I seriously went back and forth about how much I should allow people to cheat the castle. I'll take this as a vote toward a way to make it faster.

sierralee

Hooo. First, thank you for all the feedback, but please do note Shift+Enter for future posts. Now, by far the most important thing you mention is the ability to jump over scene tiles and skip large parts of the game. I have a script specifically to block this, and while it's always possible I forgot to add it to any given tile, in this case the relevant ones have it. It seems to block you effectively on my computer as well - can you provide more information? Can anyone else duplicate this? Most of your bugs are noted for fixing, but I'm not sure what you mean by "the left side of the witch's house" - Emantha's? Anyway, glad you enjoyed the game! ^-^

sierralee

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

sierralee

The setting is northwestern Ardoheim, but I'm afraid I don't have a name for the minor town the story takes place in.

sierralee

Okay, a Mac version is uploading for you! Will send it in a message once it finishes. While I assume it works the same way as the other deployments, I've never done this before, so I'm happy to check how it works. I also have no clue how the phone version will work... Thanks for the suggestions and glad you liked the story! TLS is called TLS for reasons that will become clearer over time. =P

sierralee

Sorry, your comment regarding this came at a point when I was already deep into development of Ouroboros.

Roger Faux

*SPOILER* Amiel seems to storm off even if you awaken her. Is this a known bug?

Zyrus

The story sounds like it's much later in the war?

iamnuff

It's not too late, i didn't try it, and I'm glad now. I am wondering if I can get Slimy's "Affection meter" page to pop up by not awakening specific girls and doing things in the right order, to see who reacts to it, but I don't want to replay that either. As for the castle... Having the mage girl disable all the barriers rather than just the one, or having the thief girl rig you up a lockpick (or the crazy fairy girl hand you a set of bombs instead of her fairy ring) would let you bypass the key-collecting puzzle entirely. Maybe set that up for the fourth loop only, or something. Or have the Whip woman give you a passcode to disable the barriers after you capture her alive. (if he's a code, rather than key, you can keep it between loops, see?) It's perfectly fine for the castle to be complex and kinda tedius. It's the "final dungeon" after all. But you kinda have a theme of being able to cut the knot on a lot of these puzzles, so it seems odd that this is the one where you have to do it legit every time. I guess if you could reset the loop without beating the castle it'd work too, if you were just experimenting with combinations to get more dialogue. (I just got the stuff in the bar with fairy girl, and her stuff with the clown.) and yes, I am forgetting the main characters names. Don't take it the wrong way. I know who they all are, I remember their dialogue and stuff, I'm just crap with names. Especially foreign ones.

Roger Faux

Never mind, she stuck around in the party but the line where she storms off remains.

iamnuff

Guess I should give more feedback about my experience with the game. I woke the thief first, since Fairy girl ran away after the hero flubbed in the fire dungeon, and the witch was kinda snooty and dismissive. When I got to the castle the first time around she asked me who I liked, I thought "She;s my favourite archetype, and she's been the most helpful and friendly, Plus she's standing right there." So I told her i liked her. It only felt right to wake her up first. I also redid the rock dungeon legit with her both awakened and unawakened to see what changed. Awakened version has new dialogue when you use the rock-break skill and when you beat the boss, which is really nice. I loved those scenes. It's a shame the unawakened version doesn't really have much. (Unless I missed something.) The fairy girl only lets you fuck the fairy to bypass the fire dungeon when she's awake, and the Witch won't let you snatch the magic item to melt ice unless she's awake, but the Rogue teaches you a skill that you can use all on your own. In hindsight, the fact that you learn her bypass trick (rock break) and get to keep it throughout the loops means you don't need to wake her every time, but I still did anyway. Oh, one more thing. I first entered the shed with the thief and the fairy girl, so I got both items. I was kinda expecting there to be a third item when i went back with the witch, but no dice. Did I miss an item, or does she just not have one?

sierralee

If this is a line from old Amiel while she's awakened, though, it shouldn't be happening. Can you be specific about what scene this is and what line she says?

iamnuff

Just got to the notes at the end (I stopped right before killing the True Final Boss because I had stuff to do, back and beaten it now. I was hoping there was more gameplay after taking control of the loops. I wanted to abuse that ultimate power a little. Oh well, total playtime, somewhere around three hours. Total loops. Five or so. First playthrough was interesting. hero was a little too generic, thief girl was a nice spin, given that she wanted the princess too. Witch was just kinda nothing. I don't think I even bought anything from her. Fairy girl was a little too vanilla. No real personality and no spark. (but that was clearly intentional) The hints that something was wrong were great. The item-trading quest was pretty funny, considering how you treat that stuff in TLS. Second loop, Break the Cycle: Actually breaking the cycle was a little rough, because I knew what I wanted to do, but the hero didn't remember anything yet. Finding the first Stone thingy wasn't easy, because I wasn't sure how far I had to follow the rails before I could start messing around. (Right up until after you use the bomb, as it turns out.) I did feel like I found that first area on my own though. If you'd lead me there instead it'd have been just like Slimey guiding me around for the entire first playthrough. I got to the part where he told me to turn back, and realised I didn't have to. That was great. Also, the hero's personality change was a little startling. Awakening the girls was where it got interesting, since they all have dialogue in diffrent places and it's all great. thief girl went first, both because she's the heroine of the first dungeon (chronologically) and because she's the coolest. Second I did the fairy girl. (with the stone from beyond the magic fire) Was really surprised when her personality did a full 180. She ended up being the most colourful heroine, even if I still favoured the thief-girl. I swapped one or the other out for the witch on the third loop, after I finally remembered she existed to do more than just laugh at your quest and assure you that she couldn't be blind enough to miss the goblin invasion that she missed and to teleport in and do one tiny thing in the castle puzzle. (if she can teleport, she could make herself useful and destroy all the crystals for me) She seemed to change the least, but she seemed to have the least going on to start with. I mean, her attitude to you does a 180, obviously, but her outlook on life or whatever doesn't really seem to waver after waking up. After that, I spent a couple of loops just messing around doing stuff like the Gate-Horn shenanigans to capture the whip enemy (does she do anything when she's trapped in Fairy-girl's cottage? other than beg for mercy?) After that I remembered to use the bomb on the second pile of rubble and I got all three of them. Then I spoke to everyone in town again to get all the dialogue (Surprised that the guy who wants "five minutes alone" with the princess doesn't trigger anything) Then I finally went into the shed dungeon with everyone (and the combined lantern) and beat the game. I do wish there were more threesome scenes, or just more scenes in general. After you've got a couple of loops under your belt, there's a feeling of "Eh, fuck it, why not?" but you can only really take advantage of it with the fairy. (and the fairy-heroine, for that matter) It'd be nice if there was maybe one scene in the first loop (unless I missed that) where you get to spend the night with one of the girls before their (and your) personalities get twisted by all those memories. I'd also like to see a scene with the princess and the thief. (just them or a threesome) Just because she mentions it's what she wanted. Maybe after you take control of the loops?

Roger Faux

It's the bit where you're walking away from the plateau that the fairy's on. The unawakened Amiel lines where she asks you if you'd have done it and throw a tantrum show up regardless of her awakened status. If she's been awakened, she remains in the party. I haven't been able to find her when she's not awakened, which also prevents me from continuing onto the castle segment if I don't choose to wake her.

sierralee

First, let me say huge thanks for providing so much feedback. I really value it, even if I'm not going to respond to every little piece. I did try to get all the direct questions, though. Regarding the castle, I was thinking of it in a different category since it's what you do to reset the cycle and I imagined players would spend most of their time tinkering before then. But I do think this is worth reconsidering, and you'll likely see a way to cut through this in future versions. I did want to have a variety of new scenes as you explored, so I'm glad you liked the ones I had. What were you hoping would happen with unawakened Teira in the stone dungeon, though? I didn't have any particular ideas there, so I made it mostly about getting through things faster (as I tried to do overall). There are only two items in the shed, yes. I didn't want the game to be too neat and tidy overall with the "real" elements balanced, but that does mean Emantha doesn't get a free item there. The shed will stay the same, but something related to items may change in future versions. As for Viliana in the house - nope, no more secrets there, I just thought it'd be more fun to put her there instead of making her disappear.

sierralee

Hmm, odd. It's a totally plausible bug, but the event looks correct to me. Further testing will be needed, and if anyone can provide other info, it would be appreciated. You shouldn't need Amiel for the castle segment. Unless she's awakened, she should be missing, then show up once you try to enter.

sierralee

That's correct, it's during the latter half when the Incubus King was being pushed back.

Zyrus

I have three titles that would work great. "The edge", "Desperation", "Before". The latter one won't work if you plan to make more of these stories... in which case replace it with "Another day."

Negativatron

The Ouroboros is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent or dragon eating its own tail. The name originates from within Greek language. You set the standard with TLS, Then moved it higher. Great job. I have no idea how to beat this game

Wildeyes

First off Oroboros: I'll start by asking the end credits questions as best I remember: For general stats, I think I cleared the game in about six or seven hours, and it took me four cycles to get the ending. I felt that the characterization felt natural given the cirumstances. I really enjoyed seeing the different ways in which characters changed from a pretty flat 2dimensional kid's show persona, to a more mature and jaded perspective. And, as far as erotic content to be developed, I would definitely like some way for the Atreyan and Amiel to double team the fairy, seeing her have her way in a less pyrotechnic fashion in a scene or two would be delightful. Also looking forward to art for Emantha's sex scene, you can't beat busty red head bouncing on top of you! :) Overall, I liked the game quite a bit. The opening was a little slow, I kind of got the impression that this would be a really fast paced erotic game with most of the content towards the end. I thought it odd that there was a clown selling gifts, but no way to give them to the girls, apparently. If not for the forboding voices every now and then, I would have thought this was just a happy go lucky simple adventure through some dungeons, fun! Then things get real, or revealed to be fake, the twist was well executed, with the revelation being shown to the player, and the opportunity to start breaking the cycle presented pretty early on, which helped to avoid any annoyance one might have had from repeating content. Like I said above, I loved the transformation the characters experienced as they suddenly became a gestalt entity from a million life times. The writing was good, with a few moments that made me smile and go "awww", pretty equally with Amiel and Teira when they had their heart to hearts with Atreyan, talking about some of the more painful experiences they've had within the cycle. Overall, the game is fun, creepy foreshadowing with a light adventure, leading into a more intricate puzzle, enabled by the party's new found awareness, and manipulation of the cycles, taking whatever Atrean can with him through the cycles, even drawing on that collective experience to eventually seek liberation. I guess I don't have much in the way of criticisms. I think the game does what it sets out to do very well. Weird twist, fun lateral thinking on how to "break the game" (reminds meStanley's parable, now that I think about it.) and most importantly, we get to peer into the souls of four people who spend aeons of suffering and hardship together, and are drawn closer together, and empowered by the experience. Bang up job, thanks for the game.

Dream Fractal

The mystery of the title remains. I guessed that'd be your answer. I look forward to finding out.

sierralee

Glad you liked it! If you're having trouble, maybe consider asking some people in this thread about the specific part? There are some tricky bits, and some parts I think I should change, but you can probably find help here.

Can't Wait

Thanks for the info. Edited that embarrassing wall for formatting. So yes, jumping over events. Its actually not that difficult and couldn't find a single place that I COULDN'T do it (except returning to the fairy after killing all the goblins the first time to keep Amiel, but I think I could have got it if I tried a bit more). Standing next to the event spot and jumping would just jump up and down, but if you run and jump with just the right timing the jump command seems to come in on the previous tile, but not execute until the tile before the event. That's just my theory anyways. I'm assuming you have an event sitting on the spot before the stopping event that changes your jump. A work around here would be to just make the stopping events two tiles long instead. Or the event that alters your jump I guess, assuming I'm right about how you have it put together. Absolutely loved the ability to jump BTW. Loved too much about this game to really mention everything. I'm ashamed to say that I still haven't read your short stories, but I'm more of a gamer than a reader. Still I'll read the prequel to TLS at the very least when the mood takes me. If I like it as much as I assume I will, I'll probably be in more of a disposition to read your OC story. Oh and yes I meant Emantha. Running around to the left side of her house (around where the cat spawns) and jumping right (over the little bush) allowed me to get myself well and stuck. Hmmm... one other thing that's not a bug at all, but I enjoyed the convo between Atreyan and Ameil when getting her shed item, and I didn't have Tiera when opening the chest with her item. No convo happened, which is to be expected, but I assume there was one built in explaining the back story for the item. I'm sad I missed out on that and wished there was a way to activate the convo afterwards. Maybe making Atreyan put the scarf back and shut the chest without Tiera there? It doesn't help me, but it would prevent missing it in the other's plays. A bit nitpicky, but still. Maximizing enjoyment and all that.

Baloopy

Loved Ouroboros. ***SPOILERS*** Groundhog day loops are a guilty pleasure of mine so I really enjoyed the story. I especially love how you put in the shortcuts when the MC was aware of it. That really sold the mechanics of the loop for me. It took me 4-5 cycles to finish the game. I ran into a bug? in the 3rd cycle when I had just gotten the ability to awaken one of girls. I picked Teira but had to run through the loop again because I couldn't buy the bomb bag. As far as difficulty goes, I think having the normal part of the game become trivial is fine in keeping with the loop - you'd expect them to get better at it. The bosses were interesting. I'm not sure exactly how many I actually puzzled out. The death one and the one in the Fairy area i sort of brute forced with Emantha and Amiel. Like others have mentioned, jumping can get you stuck in some places - like the succubus area. You can jump on the edges of the map and then get stuck. Also in the same area, you can potentially get there without Amiel and get stuck there (unless I'm missing something) Overall great short little game. Would love to see it fleshed out with pictures but also looking forward to more TLS.

sierralee

Thanks for the feedback, and glad you liked it!

sierralee

Thanks for the feedback! You're the second person to report a Bomb Bag problem, so there's likely a way to break the sequence, but I haven't looked into it yet. TLS will be my focus for the next while, but since the reaction has been positive so far, I'm hoping to get this game fleshed out in time as well.

sierralee

Hmm. I tried for a little while, and I wasn't able to replicate jumping over events even once. I wonder if your theory isn't correct, but it requires the game to be running at a specific speed slower or faster than the standard? In any case, I've added an additional blocking tile to some of the key places that are supposed to block you, which I can only hope will help this. Requiring the right party member to get the shed item/conversation is a good idea. Implemented. And thanks again for the feedback.

A Zo

I feel like the zero incentive to fight trash mobs sort of works against this a bit. The second time, it makes sense. But the first time? It's jarring despite the rest of the game being played 'straight' in terms of RPG conventions. I think a way to 'incentivize' grinding would be to make a second currency that could be used to buy the clown's stuff. Perhaps you could add an AoE trash killer after reading the first tablet, too? At the endgame, getting touched by the monsters, having to go through the 'escape' animations, and repeating was more aggravating than anything else.

sierralee

This was something I was concerned about. My inspiration for this was actually less straight RPG than an adventure game like Zelda, which is why I went with the current setup. I will have to keep thinking about what I want to incentivize and how, thanks for the feedback.

A Zo

The thing is that zelda is a lot quicker. You press a, things die. In a rpgmaker game, you get tagged, wait for the transition, get in the fight, pick a skill, animate the attacks, and repeat.

Rafael367

Hmm, 8-10 hours of total gameplay here. Some of that was a restart when I decided I was doing something wrong at the first vizier battle. Otherwise engaging. I agree with A Zo on the trash mobs. They're more annoyances than meaningful challenges. Except goblins, I made a point to farm that first one in the stone dungeon a bit. I had the same problem someone else mentioned with jumping over the barrier near golem and advancing the story too far too early. Cycle, eh? Started over there because I wasn't making multiple saves. Game definitely makes sense and is really interesting. There are a few ways to break the dynamic and derail the story, but barring that, the structure works. Same bomb bag issue as others, if you awaken Tierra before you buy the bag, you're too poor to get it. You can also buy the pickaxe if you have over 40 gold when you speak to the guy, that bugged me out of buying the bag, too. I never did manage to get enough gold together for the necklace. Bosses: Stone bats were rough but doable first cycle. Ice bats were harder but ice armor helped. Dragon was doable first cycle as long as I had the fire armor + ice sword. Just took all my potions and some luck. Golem was easy once I had the first stone unlocked. Golem's shield made Ogre easier, but I think I still needed two party members. Memories took three party members, I need Amiel healing and myself and Amantha raining out curse/dispell to pull it off. I needed all four party members for succubus, she was rough. Garuda was bar none the hardest monster, only Amantha's curse seemed to work, so everyone else was healing/raising, or providing an additional target to spread damage out. Maybe holy sword is needed? I never bothered to buy it, so I don't know.

iamnuff

I never had any problem with the bomb bag, but I think that's because my cash didn't reset after looping. Not sure if it was intentional or not but it surely made the game less irritating. Between the loops i could save up money from chests so I could go directly to buying whichever weapons I needed for specific enemies. Plus i always had enough money for the bomb bag. Since I grabbed every chest I saw on each cycle, but didn't need to buy every armour or every weapon, since I was skipping some of the dungeons, and I was slowly collecting boss-loot that doesn't reset, I was gaining more than i was spending. It might have been a bug, but I found that it only improved my experience. Scrounging for coins was a big deal in the first loop, but it became a lot less important after the "Truth" was revealed. Signifying that we all had more important things to worry about. I did consider the possibility of stealing from the shop, since the owners are just NPCs not "real people" but I guess that's not in the game. Ah well.

iamnuff

Thanks for answering my questions. As for yours... I don't know what I wanted or expected from Unwakened Teira in the rock dungeon. Maybe some way to get there before she opens the chest and triggers the monster? Maybe her realising you can just punch the rocks apart and asking why you're both wasting your time with this hammer? (or asking where you learned it) Maybe dialogue with whoever you brought with you? I don't know, I was just sort expecting your hero to say or do something different. I guess it's because she joins your party when you get the bomb, then leaves after you use it, I was expecting something there. But that doesn't happen in the second loop. I did catch the bit where you wake up Amiel but not Teira, and she mentions that Amiel seems pretty odd. Didn't find any other scenes where unwakened characters react to awakened ones though. Maybe if I'd brought the other two into the Witch's shop?

sierralee

Your gold just didn't reset? Whaaat. I really have no idea how a bug like that could randomly happen in only some games. Uh, if anybody has this as well and notices any patterns, please let me know.

sierralee

Those are interesting ideas. I think that trying to do the dungeon without Teira will probably be a common enough thought process that I should probably have something for people to find. I don't recall if I added any other interactions between awakened/unawakened characters. If I did, it's something else pretty minor. I'll consider adding more, though.

sierralee

The problem with balancing the basic mobs is that if they're much of a threat, they will destroy you via attrition. I didn't really think of an answer for this, though I did consider having the player heal to full after every battle. I'll have to look into this Teira bug. I specifically added conditionals where she's supposed to give you the gold she has if you awaken her first, but I must have screwed up something. Buying the pickaxe on subsequent cycles just didn't occur to me, though, I'll get that fixed. Thanks for your feedback on the bosses. Some of those are about what I wanted, some will probably require buffing. I really went back and forth on exactly how strong to make the optional monsters, since players can encounter them in so many different states. FYI, the Garuda was meant to be a magic tank, so only characters with sufficiently high magic attack can damage it. It was meant to be a battle for Emantha to shine, but Amiel and Atreyan can potentially hit as well.

Rafael367

I think it's about 3rd cycle that you just ask to skip to the ring? Anyway, there's at least one where if I go get my goblin killing reward I end up screwing myself there.

Rafael367

Still thinking about your title suggestions... if BetatesterFP's theory on the wiki that you're kinda playing on Conan titles is correct, then I suggest "Tower of the Elephant". Was gonna go with Succubus instead, but I realized Simon has his own "trunk", also he ends the story in a tower where he's using the "trunk".

Decanter

Can confirm that it's pretty easy for me to reproduce the event skip via jumping, and pretty easy to make happen by accident just by merrily hopping everywhere - to the point that I actually figured it out independently - and it may well because the game runs a bit slow on my machine. I think this is a more general RPG Maker issue.... hopefully it's not just more common in MV, but I think you should plan to work around it for Ouroboros if nowhere else.

Decanter

Of the titles proposed on this page so far, I like "Lust Is a Battlefield" most - it's cute without being too groanworthy and it captures the central point that lust is a weapon and a struggle in this setting.

Dream Fractal

Ouroboros was lots of fun! I loved the characters and the story. Detailed comments below. 0. MILD LUDONARRATIVE DISSONANCE I was surprised that when I died against a monster that I got a game over. Given the hero’s ability to resurrect from death, I expected to just be kicked out of the battle as if I had run away, or to find myself dragged by goblins back the start. The existence of a game over screen seems to conflict with the narrative. It only really makes sense to have a game over for losing the final battle, and even that might be better served by having an alternate bad ending. Also, a minor point: Amiel sets fire to things in the narrative, but throws lightning bolts in combat. Is there a reason she doesn’t actually have a fire spell? 1. STATS 3 cycles, which I’m guessing is the minimum, in 6.5 hours. 2. CHARACTERIZATION Characterization is great. Amiel is the most entertaining, as she’s highly archetypal before and wildly subversive after. Teira is also a good character—she’s a funny and immediately likeable anchor for the narrative from the start, and feels older and wiser after awakening. 3. BALANCE Balance is strange, but makes sense within the given constraints. Battles tend to be either impossible, slightly tricky, or trivial, depending on the number of party members and your equipment. It feels more like a puzzle game with battles just being another form of barrier. I’d recommend tweaking the fight against the Garuda, the bird boss north of the village. It has a lot of health, and as far as I can figure, can only be hurt by curse and annihilation, which makes defeating it tedious. Fewer hit points or more weaknesses would help speed that fight up. 4. EXPANSION I love The Last Sovereign, but I also would enjoy seeing more of this game. It was a tense, dark, and heartfelt little story that made me feel for the characters, and it was really quite charming.

Decanter

Nice. I guess everyone gravitated to the Patreon's actual name and the split ended up not being a problem. And Hreinn took third!

sierralee

Thanks for the suggestions! Going to have to shoot down that theory, though - I've read some Conan, obviously, but I haven't gone very deep into Robert E. Howard's bibliography.

sierralee

Glad you liked it! Specific responses: 0: I had plans regarding this, but the big problem I ran into was what to do when the player loses a boss battle. I couldn't think of an elegant way to handle that, so for the sake of time I just reinstated normal game overs. RPG Maker doesn't make this particularly easy, but if anyone has ideas, I'm all ears. 0.1: It's mainly because I wanted the party members to operate outside of the elemental structure of the dungeons, but fire is easier to do in cutscenes. 3: A phrase very like "puzzle game with battles" appears somewhere in my design doc, so that's not necessarily a bad thing. As for the Garuda, I'll take that into consideration. I upped its HP while testing because I felt like Annihilation wiped out too large a percentage of its total health. 4: Since everyone has been generally positive, I definitely hope to go somewhere with this. The game's essential character will stay the same - I always had in mind a fun smaller story - but I hope to refine some elements, add more details, and commission custom art.

sierralee

Yes, many thanks! I was going to mention it next update sometime, but here is good too. Thanks everyone for all their very kind words. ^-^

Dream Fractal

Tricky. The optional boss battles shouldn't be a problem, as you can just treat losing as running away. As for the plot boss fights, writing a loss scenario for each one would be a lot of work, especially when you factor in pre-awakened and post-awakened variants. A simple solution is a ‘retry’ / ‘give up’ choice that pops up to let you try the boss fight again with fully restored health and mana, whereas ‘give up’ leads to a game over screen.

sierralee

Hmm, I do like the retry choice, that has some possibilities. It'll make attrition a non-factor provided you can reach the boss fight, but perhaps that's appropriate.

Nineanon

I had a huge shit eating grin on my face when I realized what the game was really about. Didn't like the sex or the characters a whole lot though, but I liked the development they experienced anyway.

Bill B

So...have I recently told you that I <3 all of your work? 'Cuz I'm definitely feeling like I need to again. General thoughts before specific answers to the questions: I felt like a complete moron for having missed that critical first step in breaking the cycle, but when my dumb ass finally figured it out it was SO completely worth it. For what you set out to do, I think this was a complete success - still challenging enough to be a game and not an "interactive novel," no hand-holding, and a story that delivers. I do however, have to gripe(as others have) about the mobs - they just don't make sense after awakening. Hell, you cutscene the first three goblins to death without any trouble; I don't see why that couldn't be repeated for other non-boss mobs. Prior to awakening they provide that critical attrition that makes the rest of the fights challenging, after they just slow you down needlessly. As for specifics: 1. Play time and cycles: 3 or 4 cycles(they all blend together...pretty sure I finished on the third though) and about 4:30 play time according to the in-game clock(no major restarts and not too many deaths, maybe another 30 minutes or so total accounting for all reloads). 2. Characterization - the twist, the town: While I loved the experience, it was pretty tough to sit through the first cycle and if it wasn't your work I don't know that I would have had the faith to keep going. It was only obvious that something was REALLY amiss to someone who knows your style and quality of work; to anyone else I think that it'd be a little hard to keep interest. After the twist the game really soars and the slog pays off. The problem isn't just the overly-sappy super-tame characters and trope-y JRPG-ness, it's that there's only tiny little hints of anything else behind the curtain and that that first cycle takes up almost half the game. A few more teasers of Something Else ala the corpse field RIGHT at the beginning would really help spur you along. As far as the characters themselves, a few notes. First off, LOVED awoken Amiel and Teira, and wanted to have more time with the two of 'em - they strike a wonderful contrast to each other, both behaving in a realistic fashion and both tremendously endearing. Emantha...meh. Jus' didn't feel much connection there, even after the awakening - I guess she just felt like she got off easy, compared to the others, and I never really felt like she grew or progressed much. Also, the Vizier had some room for awesomeness - if the point of this exercise was to break Atreyan, wouldn't it be evil to have the Vizier either be a totally awesome bro who betrays Atreyan or, worse yet, a likable character who makes it hard for Atreyan to hate him? Atreyan would be stuck in a cycle of ever-devolving hatred of a "good" character, constantly losing bits and pieces of his humanity as he killed the Vizier over and over again because "he was the bad guy." Just a thought. >.> 3. Balance: Ohgawd I loved this. Just when I think a monster is FUCKING GODDAMN IMPOSSIBLE I put on my big boy pants, wait a little bit and get new items/companions to really just destroy their sweet, (formerly) virgin assholes. I did find Garunda to be a LITTLE bit much, since I got Witchtits awoken last, and I never got to tackle the Reaper with a full party(since I went with the SE beach on my third playthrough and didn't try a 4th). Other than that and the whole mind-numbingness of the non-boss mobs, balance was spot-on. 4. Expansions: So many thoughts. All of yours are good, though I think a real awesome twist/expansion would be to offer an expanded ending where the -player- could make certain manipulations in the world then walk through it(in and/or out of cycle) to see the effects of their changes, even using these combinations to prepare for a final boss fight or even unlock an optional boss. Would also like to see more trivia about the "real" world, with maybe a few hints about what may have happened since the cycles started. In closing, you are awesome and all of my internets to you. Now have a beer and relax! Also p.s. sorry for the spamwall. I am bad and I feel bad. *headhangs*

sierralee

Glad to hear you enjoyed it even if not all elements worked for you! Obviously with an odd game like this, I can't get everyone, but I hope it will be a fun little experience for most people. ^-^

sierralee

Thanks for all the feedback and kind words! Interesting to hear regarding the hints, as I really wasn't sure how much was too much. Really don't want to lose people pre-twist, since the people who would dislike that part might be the same ones who would most enjoy my main work. My thought was to make it clear something was wrong early on, then sort of let people get accustomed to things before pulling the rug out at the end of the first cycle. I might have the balance of this wrong, though, so thoughts welcome (from anyone reading).

Vitreous Humour

Just finished Ouroboros. I don't think I've ever played a game quite like it. Initially I played for the titillation, but once the twist kicked in it was just completely enthralling. I'd love to have an epilogue, or some more character interaction, because what was there was amazing. Really wanted to know who actually put that whole scheme together (and how long it had been). If I had any gripe, it's that the dungeons started to become irritating, and I also would like a way to just kill off the repeated mobs. But honestly, that might make things too easy, right now it's almost pitch perfect with regards to difficulty I think. If I had a wish, it might be for some graphics, but that's just daydreaming and it really doesn't need it. I agree with the above comment that Emantha was a bit... plain compared to the other two, though I did like the additional convos she added to even relatively minor things. I don't know how long you spent writing this, but it was well worth it! Oh, but you need to add the patreon link. I would increase my pledge, but I'm actually double pledging for you and Hreinn! Totally worth it though.

Decanter

I think more hints that something is wrong wouldn't hurt and would probably help, though when adding them it might be good to vary the devices you use to do that rather than risk overusing the screen-darken-with-text thing.

Dagon Lies

I think I'm stuck. How do I get past the fire barrier to reach the last stone in the faerie map?

iamnuff

Fireproof necklace from the store

Dagon Lies

Is it even possible to get to 999 gold in a cycle?

sierralee

There's a little over 1200 gold in the game, though some of it may be locked in an area you can't reach.

Bill B

It's also totally unnecessary - there's a different way to go which allows you to accomplish the same thing. Wait until you've got at least one other party member awoken, then explore the entire town again.

Bill B

I definitely got that vibe early on, for sure, but I think there was just a little too much lag time between "hints". Again, had I not known it was you who put the game together I'm not TOTALLY sure that I would have stuck with it, though I am immensely glad that I did and, as always, pleasantly surprised by how awesomely twisted and creative your mind is. The slog made it all a little worse, since there(thankfully) was no grinding to make it possible to power through stuff - As Atreyan mentioned himself, these dungeons were clearly only designed to stop people who can't push buttons and walk back and forth, but having to do all that busywork with no carrot on a stick was what made it feel....drawn out. You may have made the mistake of overestimating my attention span, though that could just be me. :p

Bill B

Bu....but you know what is best in life, right? :0

sierralee

I hope not. While there's meant to be a way to avoid the barrier on subsequent runs, if you can get into the shack without finding the other end first, then there's a bug I need to fix.

Dream Fractal

Amiel just kicks down the door for you. I never bought the fireproof necklace, which rather saved me as I was stuck at 985 gold pieces on my third loop.

Dream Fractal

The OC story was a fun read. I noticed that The OC Story is similar to Kingdom of Deception's premise—was it an earlier draft of the game's premise? As for titles, hrm. "Kingdom of Ogres", "The Ogres' Bride", or [insert sly reference to the song by Queen or the Ogre Battle games here].

sierralee

Ah, dang. Breaking down the door was supposed to just reveal the empty version of the shack, but I failed to give the big door the right switch. Thanks for the report, got it fixed.

sierralee

You're right to draw the connection, but this was more like a quick erotica take on similar premises. With the game we're aiming to build something larger and more complex, but I wanted to play around with the tropes involved in a straightforward way and see how it felt. Thanks for the title recommendations.

Zyrus

I've been trying Ouroboros out... is there a walkthrough on a wiki somewhere for this? Because I'm playing for the story at this point... the gameplay isn't really grabbing me with the way it's structured.

sierralee

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. As far as I know, there is no walkthrough and no real place for a walkthrough, since we just have the TLS wiki. Maybe you could get one there, though you should probably ask if they want to host non-TLS material. There aren't that many puzzles overall, so if you mention where you're stuck, maybe someone can help you here.

Zyrus

The puzzles aren't what's annoying me. The game says to use the gifts from the clown, but I can't actually *use* them. I'm guessing the majority of content is gates behind the affection scores, but I'm basically repeating cycles at this point to increase those scores instead of, you know, using my gold for something useful. It's pretty obvious you're supposed to 'awaken' the MC, and I feel like that's gated behind the affection scores... but the affection scores themselves seem to be bugged. There's probably something I've missed here, because I can't seem to figure out where to break the pattern beyond affection gating. So yeah, I'm effectively stuck repeating the cycles to increase affection, and I'm totally uninterested in doing anymore repeats. So I'm done with this until I get some hint of where to go from here.

Meridion

Going to try avoiding spoilers. To begin the process of moving forward, try heading as far north-west as you can after blowing up the rock with the bomb. There you will find another tablet similar to the one you wake up next to initially. Keep prodding at it.

Zyrus

Wow... you're telling me that the game doesn't force you to stay back there? lol I would never have figured that out. Unbelievable.

Zyrus

So. Finally finished after having that pointed out. about 11 hours in, 8 cycles in. 3 cycles were totally redudant and mainly coin well fodder while I was under the impression that affection was the key to awakening. I'm typically not a fan of puzzle bosses, and especially ones you feel the need to account for solo or full party. I prefer for minimum requirement puzzle bosses, with additional support only hastening things. I get that the initial coversation bubble between the dungeon of stone is supposed to be a hint, but considering whenever you try to go forward from the bridge you're stopped by Slimey, it feels like a game barrier after getting the same thing going to the castle the first time. All in all, an enjoyable experience once past the initial point I was stuck at. I hope to see more content later and potentially an epilogue or a whole new game set after.

Samuel Edwards

I would also be interested in a Mac version of Ouroboros, if it's not too much trouble to pass along.

sierralee

I added a link to the newest post just now, but here's a copy: <a href="https://mega.nz/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://mega.nz/</a>#!zsdChb6B!YYW5CmyeWfDiK2rUpb6Ae15folqbniYCGXlJUaCJBzQ