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Bonus Audio: What Happened (Patreon)

Published:
2024-11-10 07:00:40
Edited:
2024-11-10 07:00:51
Imported:
2024-11
Tags:

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Content

In this bonus audio, David and @joyofnapping discuss the following topics:

How they're feeling right now about the election

SNL Election Sketch

Why they believe Kamala Harris lost

Men of Gen Z backed Trump

Ipsos data on misinformed electorate

The Guardian article

What you can do now to prepare for what comes next

Closing thoughts

PATRONS: You can get this audio in your podcast app by going to patreon.com/davechen, going to the "My Membership" section, and copying and pasting the RSS link to your podcast app.

Files

Comments

Matthew

I know this was only a small part of the podcast but, man, I feel seen, and I just wanted to let you guys know how much I appreciate it. I’m part of the shit list demographic right now (white gen z guy) and I don’t think my identity has ever been seen until listening to you both. Let me be clear, men’s issues are nothing compared to women’s rights being taken away, they are not comparable. On the other hand, sometimes I wish I was thrown a bone. Whenever I talk about politics, it’s usually never about me (which is okay!) but I can imagine how it might feel for a younger man. Maybe I am wrong, but when we talk about men’s privileges, we usually talk about older men’s privileges and don’t acknowledge how that is necessarily the same as younger men’s. Personally I wish I could talk about my problems without being questioned or judged. I wish I could talk about my identity in a positive light and it not be a burden. I am sure part of this is because I was raised in a household that assumed failure in the future but it means a lot to hear that it’s okay to have issues relating to my gender. I’m just happy that I’m being acknowledged by you both and at the moment, that’s plenty for me. Also, maybe I’m wrong, and please let me know if I haven’t thought this out well enough.

Ink Ribbon

Hello. I understand. I’m an Asian male. I listened to Adam Kinzinger who voted for Kamala. He said that Kamala was running a great campaign. However, he said she needed to talk about men more. Working class WHITE men do exist. They struggle. They need to care for their families. They need to be heard. I’ll just say that I am a privileged Asian male who is fortunate to never have to worry about money as nearly as much as most white working class men out there. Hopefully the Democratic Party will learn from this. I appreciate the discussion David and Joy had about this.

Ink Ribbon

Great discussion as usual Joy and David. One thing I want to share of what I have heard others have said. They are done. I’m done. Me, personally, I told my parents who live in Thailand to not come visit me. I am now going to live with them. At least I get to take care of them. I’ll just watch from halfway around the world. I was listening to The Bulwark (highly recommended). They asked, “should we fight?” It was a very interesting discussion. The answer was no. I, along with many others, are not going to fight. Let the new administration burn America to the ground and maybe, just maybe, American will realize they got what they deserved. And they can build back from there.

Ink Ribbon

I asked my Latina friend who had Latino relatives vote for Trump. She is done. This is what she said to me… 👇 “I'm in the state of hoping that those who voted for him get exactly what they voted for. Their family deported. Higher prices. More taxes. Possible death from complications from a baby they actually want. That's what I wish for these people. That they pay for what they have done by dealing with the consequences of their decisions.”

Ink Ribbon

Oh Dave. One more person for you to be angry at: MERRICK GARLAND. For the first two years as AG he did NOTHING. Had he had done something fast enough Trump wouldn’t be able to run at all.

Brandon Lee Tenney

I love you both and this conversation is necessary and great—but I also think it’s indicative of our whole problem. So much logic, so much policy, so much explanation—and they don’t want that. They want emotion, anger, grievance, acceptance, and understanding, regardless of the awfulness of their feelings. They want an easy story. So until we have that easy story, especially for men, especially for young men, all this logic is pushing us farther away from victory whether we want to admit it or not. A ground game, talking with voters, debate, it doesn’t matter what we’re saying if it isn’t being heard and internalized. As Dave keeps saying, I understand the rage and passion Joy speaks with about this topic, but it is a big reason why we’re here. And until we can offer a (ironic I know) safe space for them to open up without using their openness against them, the backlash will continue and it will continue to be devastating. Also, a lot of men/Trump voters just want authority/authoritarianism. They want a strong leader because they are hierarchical followers. With that fundamental difference in worldview, I don’t know what to do.

Brandon Lee Tenney

There’s also the even bigger problem that many of these people just don’t like us, and they don’t trust us? How, beside a long amount of time and constant action within these people’s communities, do we convince people to like us? They are threatened by women, POC, intelligence, curiosity, questions. They don’t like that we aren’t religious, that we have internal morality instead of external. They believe in strict hierarchy. These are fundamental ways of thinking and being and do not easily shift. I think a lot of polls and door knockers and phone bankers (like me!) just don’t want to admit that many people are lying to us. They just don’t like us. Then, on top of that, we also didn’t have a convincing message! I’m bereft! And I don’t know how to be someone different, think differently, meet on that level…

Bmac

I know that sadly there might be some indication that it was not near the top of voter concerns, but I feel that more time should have been given to Gaza. When you speak about an informed electorate they would know we are helping commit a genocide. If you voted for Harris because you believed a Trump administration would be far worse then absolutely I understand the calculation. To me this election was the epitome of the lesser of two evils

Maddox Finkel

Alot of venting and processing to come, so i hope we keep this going, appreciate yall.

Claudita

Let me say, how disappointing It was that climate change and the environment got completely sidelined by the Kamala campaign in order to try and win two states she def lost. I know it’s not top of mind for the average voter, but I HOPE the Democratic Party figures out messaging on this. Still sad. Still mulling. Trying to use less plastic. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Joy o Napping

Just wanting to learn… I assume you are referring to PA as one of the states. What is the other? Michigan?

Nathaniel St. Clair

It’s difficult not to think about all of the organic enthusiasm around Bernie in 2016 and 2020, and to have watched the democrats ignore and dismiss it. Yeah, it does seem easy for Bernie to come out after the election and talk about the abandonment of the working class, but he did show how to speak to them and what kind of bold policy proposals people were yearning for. It really seemed like establishment democrats refused to learn any lessons from it. And while Biden was better than many modern presidents for the working class, he could not communicate that, and also all the Covid benefits expired on his watch. It was the first time a lot of poor people felt some relief and then it was taken away under his admin. Whether his fault or not, it’s the incumbent that gets the blame. He also could have fought to maintain them. Ultimately he should have never ran for a second term, then the Dems could have ran a genuine change candidate in a change election. Biden is unpopular, Kamala was unwilling and unable to separate herself from his admin, people wanted something different and had nowhere to turn but the couch or back to Trump. It’s a disaster. But why it happened actually does seem pretty simple. Great convo. I applaud Joy for all the work she did. I totally agree that the ground game will have an impact on future elections and movement building.

Claudita

Yes those two states. For me, it seemed like the only time Kamala referred to the environment was when she talked about fracking during the debate. Unless there was more talk about it on the ground or in other campaign speeches that were not publicized.

Joy o Napping

Hi Matthew, thank you for sharing and being so candid in your reply. One thing I wanted to understand better was being raised in a household that assumed failure in the future. If you have capacity (and not presuming you do), could you share more on this?

John Halski

I see Bernie on cable news a lot. They can’t get enough of a leftist who bashes Democrats. Would you say he does many town halls? On the ground, person-to-person type events where he speaks to undecideds or conservatives? Does he make the case to the working class who break Right?

John Halski

Something I’ve thought about a lot since having kids is how fundamentally broken our culture is around gender and gender roles. My spouse and I split everything we can. Biological realities impose some limits on that, and sometimes kids cling to one parent for whatever reason and you do what you can. But I can’t tell you how many times I’d be out with the kids—a *man* handling the kids???—to cheers. Not always literal cheers, but complements, courtesies, and general recognition that I was going “above and beyond.” Because what’s a man doing taking kids somewhere by himself? The problem goes so much deeper than “men need to feel valued.” *How* and *what* we value in men needs to be overhauled from the ground up. Being entirely there for a partner and for your kids has value. Supporting a working partner who might make more than you has value. Defending the rights of people who aren’t you has value. If these things cannot be defined as masculine, then masculinity as we understand it is broken. It’s really hard to have that conversation when a rapist is hoisted on the shoulders of the other side. I don’t know where it begins. But anyone who calls the question “what is masculinity?” either elitist or “woke” or whatever is still in The Matrix, and I don’t know how to reach them.

The Reel Lovers Podcast

I personally think the message from the democrats didn’t relate to most Americans. Calling your opponent a fascist doesn’t make sense when more than half of America can’t even define fascism. The democrats need to do some serious soul searching, and find a way to win back the American people.

M. R. Turnage

Quick question - if I were to stock up on Plan B, what is the recommended amount? I am really clueless about this.

Joy o Napping

Plan B is a one time use, single pill. Therefore you buy as many as you think you will have unwanted possible pregnancy events in the 4 years of its shelf life. Keeping in mind you may want to have some to give away. Plan B is $40-50 per dose. There is also a generic version of Plan B (levonorgestrel) that is much cheaper ($8-10). Note: if the taker is over a certain weight (~175 lbs) it may be less effective. Some people at higher weight try to take a double dose but it’s not conclusive if this works better.

M. R. Turnage

You are the best person in the whole world. Thank you!

Matthew

Sure, I’d be more than happy to share! I come from a VERY privileged household (dad had a corporate job, with my mom being stay-at-home) in Orange County, California. More importantly, though, my mom grew up in a working class, blue-collared family and it really has shaped her experiences. Both of my grandparents worked at a local newspaper with them being and landlord and my grandpa painting on the side. Neither of them had college degrees and they still have scars from the depression (multiple fridges stuffed with food). They struggled financially when they were younger and had to work hard which really has colored my mom’s experiences even to this day. My mom is really weird about money and has anxiety about the world. She has always been deeply worried that my siblings and I were going to make it in the future. I don’t remember her talking about the world and economy pre-2010, but it was always a grim outlook. She knew that college was more and more expensive while the jobs that came after seemed to be paying less and less. She also recognized you were probably shit-out-of-luck if you didn’t have a diploma, so yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever had hope for my life as a working adult. My immediate family are now a bunch of right wingers (part of me wants to make RIGHTists a thing) and they all voted for trump in 2016. It was around then they changed affiliation (dad used to volunteer for local democrats) and they voted for Obama twice. I don’t know who my mom voted for in 2020 and 2024, she definitely spouts right-wing talking points often. My older brother, who actually believes in conservative values, actually voted for Biden in 2020, unhappily, and I haven’t had a chance to ask about this year. My dad just spews crap, especially when he’s drunk. This is all not particularly relevant, but potentially helpful in giving a little more context. I wanted to add a little about my 16-year-old cousin because I think he actually might be a better case to learn about young gen z men. He’s from my parent’s hometown and his dad is a factory worker with his mom being a teacher in Kentucky. For context, I’ll just start off by saying, he came to visit California last summer and he was just amazed on how modern the houses were because he had never traveled outside of Indiana or Kentucky. That’s the kind of teen we’re dealing with. I was asking about how school and (to some extent) life was going, and it was just sad. He told me how the school was trash, students were hard to get along with, how the town was poor, how he didn’t get along with his dad, it just seemed like it was not a great place for him. He had really internalized being from a poor town and he probably felt that was a major part of him. I’m sure part of this perception comes from his dad watching fox news quite a bit, but, it was sad to see nonetheless. Ultimately, I hope he’s able to move or go to college, his male role models as they are not good. He says he a republican (though I don’t know he knows what that means) because his dad is. My cousin is an angel of a kid and incredibly thoughtful, not who you think who may be a Trump-voter. Culturally, I think he has been forced to act in a way I don’t actually think he wants to be. I hope that he can find a place or community that fulfills what great potential is there, because toxic men don’t deserve him. This was really long and I hope it was helpful. It’s very weird sharing my own experiences and I could go on forever about it. Thanks for asking!

Charlie

Thanks for sharing your processing. I strongly disagree with your theories about Gen Z though, and I think a huge elephant in the room is the war in Gaza. Tons of young progressives voters are rightfully disgusted with Biden/Harris for aggressively supporting mass murder, and I think (this is a gut feeling admittedly) that accounts for a huge percent of a drop off in Gen Z voters for Kamala this election. So not a rightward shift.

Mark Griffith

I have a lots of thoughts reacting to this. Maybe I’ll send you and an email. BUT I did want to say : yes please keep doing these.