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David Chen Does Jury Duty (Patreon)

Published:
2024-03-08 15:54:05
Imported:
2026-06
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Hey folks: David Chen here. I've been a bit quiet lately, both here and on a bunch of my social channels. There's a reason for that: For the past two weeks I've been doing jury duty in a case in King County (Seattle) that just concluded this week. It's been a pretty intense experience and I have not been able to discuss it publicly until now.

The trial is now over, and in this Patreon-exclusive audio, I chat with @joyonapping about what this experience entailed, what the details of the case were, and what my overall thoughts on jury duty are as an American citizen. 

I hope you find it interesting and, as usual, thank you for your support!

PATRONS: You can get this audio in your podcast app by going to patreon.com/davechen, going to the "My Membership" section, and copying and pasting the RSS link to your podcast app.

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Stranger2Reality

I have had to go serve jury duty probably 6 or 7 times in my life, but I have never yet once been called out of that initial room everyone shows up in, so I've always just been sent home after a few hours of waiting. I can't tell if I'm lucky that way or if I feel like I've been cheated out of the full jury duty experience. Also, the other day I just rewatched the Sidney Lumet directed and Vin Diesel starring film Find Me Guilty, which was based on the true story of a mob trial in New York that lasted two years, and while watching it I couldn't help but think about those jurors. Two whole years of jury duty! Do they get a lifetime pass after that, or do they only get the standard one year off before being called to serve again?

M. R. Turnage

First time I've ever disagreed with Joy, but I disagree with her assessment that "no one noticed and no one cared." I noticed and hoped/cared that you were still doing well. However, I chalked up the standard-instead-of-exceptional amount of content production to "Dave is planning something neat and will do a podcast explaining the gap."

Joy o Napping

I spent the morning finding and reading the court documents, which includes lots of stuff that apparently never got admitted for trial! Also, they charge for downloading each electronic document at the courthouse website and I’m annoyed. It’s not dead trees.

Stephen David Miller

I went through the Jury Duty process just a few weeks earlier in San Francisco. I never made it past voir dire, but it's still so interesting to hear how different counties do it. In my case: * Everything was entirely in person (and, yes, I did test positive for COVID a few days later...coincidence? Unclear) * My case was expected to run for 2 full months. Because of that, they brought a _lot_ of people to voir dire assuming they would have many valid exemptions. * Our voir dire consisted of 120 of us sitting in the courtroom at the same time, also in the presence of the defendant. They would call 18 people up at a time (drawing names randomly), and we would all watch every single answer. A round took a good 4 hours. Like David, I was convinced that if I made it to the stand, they would choose me. * In my case, they struck many many people: 8 one round, 7 another, 8 again, etc. Every time, say, 6 people were struck, they would call 6 more people up to the stand to fill in the vacant seats. All in, I think we cycled through a good 48 people before they settled on the final 18. * Our topic wasn't hate crimes, but it was a similarly emotionally difficult subject, and I have to say, I felt massive amounts of stress and empathy for the potential jurors who had to bare their souls in front of 100+ strangers. I assumed these would be closed room proceedings, and my heart goes out to all the people (many of whom I'm sure have fear of public speaking!) who were legally mandated to do this. Anyway, my name was never called in that three day, 120-person voir dire session. But I found the process fascinating, and terrifying!

Del Nakamura

this episode was fascinating. a bit of 'serial' vibe. coincidentally, i just got summons for jury duty this week. i'm curious for a little bit more description of the one stickler 'tyranny of one' juror. also, by the end i found dave did a good job of making me feel sorry for 'max'. the way they broke down during arrest and after the verdict, made me sorta ok that the verdict ended up the way it did, misdemeanor harrasment. seems like that 2 years gave them time to reflect and feel contrition. another question i was left with: during the 2 years since the incident, did 'pedro' or janine? have any further interactions or issues with max?

Stephen David Miller

I wrote the above after listening to the first half of the episode. I just wanted to circle back after finishing to say that I found this account quite moving. Even voir dire, for as much as the bureaucracy annoyed me, renewed my faith in humanity to some degree...of the ~50 people interviewed, I'd say all but one or two seemed deeply invested in the seriousness of what they were a part of. They set aside their frustrations, locked in to the moment, and cared. It is so clear from listening to you that you cared -- about the lives your decision would affect, and about the hurt of the people who testified. Thank you for sharing that with us.

Joy o Napping

I suspect no. As part of his bail agreement after getting arrested, he was ordered to have no contact with any of them nor with the apartment building (I think he basically got evicted as a result).

Stranger2Reality

I thought this was a fantastic episode, probably the best one I've heard on your Patreon, so the time off was worth it for such high quality content! Dave, I'm curious, how would you have reacted if you had a similarly stubborn juror in the opposite direction, like someone who would not move off of wanting to vote guilty on both the hate crime and felony harassment charges? Would it have just been a hung jury? I ask because listening to your recounting of this case, I feel like I would have possibly had those views. I do think someone who resorts to racial slurs and the kinds of things "Max" was saying would not have been as much of a danger to a white person as he is to minorities. I think someone who goes to that kind of thinking about others, as just some racial slur, does so because they see them as below them on like life's power org chart or something, and because they feel like they have the right to abuse them more than they would someone who they see as an equal. I think that kind of dehumanizing language is a tell that this person is more likely to inflict physical harm on someone than they would be a fellow white person. I think people like that are not just abhorrent, but are also much more likely to be a danger to others than someone who does not default to seeing people that way. In light of the many white supremacy motivated mass shootings we've had in America in recent years, I'd have probably insisted that "Max" get the strongest punishment he could receive, just to hopefully get his guns taken away from him and so his criminal record would immediately raise red flags if he continued to display troublesome behavior in the future. But I also don't know how realistic it is to take such a hard line approach in a jury deliberation, as I've never done that before. Am I being naive in thinking I could adhere to such a stance?

David Chen

I think most people on the jury agreed with what you said here. But the question was whether or not prosecution proved the conditions of a hate crime charge beyond a reasonable doubt and for most of us those conditions were not met. As for the idea of a hung jury, I personally was very open to that possibility on any of the counts. But the pressure to reach a resolution is high.

Mark Griffith

Really enjoyed this. Fascinating detail into the jury process. And as I said on IG - I would want you on my jury!

Luke

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I just served on a jury in a murder trial a few weeks ago, so this was especially interesting to me. Hearing about your experience has also helped me in processing mine. I was struck by how similar our jury's frustrations/struggles were to yours. I agree with Joy's point that it's better in general to have 12 randos off the street making these kinds of decisions than handing them over to public officials. Knowing how emotionally taxing the process can be, I’m sorry you had to go through it, but I have no doubt that jury was better for having you on it. I hope you’re doing okay. Just remember that you did the best you could with what you had.

Paxton Schwarz

At the end of the day, it’s impressive that the justice system achieved a verdict

Katie

This was such an interesting listen, thank you for making this ep!