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#189: Paganism and the Logic of Metaphor, pt. 1 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-27 09:48:44
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

I hate to come on like the expert here, but I'm 44,000 years old, and you guys are doing this "god" shit all fucked up. (Plus, Dr. Jellon Lamb, Citizen of the World, explains how Australia dehydrated the God right out of him.)

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Comments

Dino Zaccagna

Shitty rock bands are the best. The Sonics are the template for that.

Madra na Móna

Galldurnit, thought you were finally going to slide into a show on The Anathemata like several times in this when you were talking about the contiguity of Paganism and Catholicism.

Thomas Welsh

This is wonderful. Excited for pt 2! Incredibly apt for my work. Curious, what resources did you use for research? Specifically in regards to the pagan stuff. Would love to dig in myself. God bless your work my friend.

Tyler Miller

This ep, quite close to a byung-chul han kinda riff

Ben

“tastemakers” should all be forced to work a minimum wage job for the rest of their lives. Also Michael, will you ever do an episode on Nightwood by Djuna Barnes? I know you’ve mentioned it in the past (with high praise iirc) but I can’t remember what episodes. But I’d love to hear your take on it. I’ve been re reading it over and over throughout the last few weeks (and whatever literary criticism I can find on it) and it’s devastating me a lot more than it did the first few times I read it years ago. Probably my favorite piece of modernist literature

Jaime Christley

if you started doing ad reads for like, Zip Recruiter, completely in earnest, that would be an INCREDIBLE bit. Re John Hurt, I agree with the critic who said of Dogville that he was the greatest voiceover actor since Orson Welles.

Jaime Christley

p.s. was Bowie friends with Gary Oldman but despised Gary Numan?

Byron’s Glowing Filament

Invisible Hand reference is creepy given it just mentioned that in my current reread of GR on pg 30. Great episode. I’m falling more and more in love with The Next Day every day.

Escheloned Confusions

Reimagining John Carpenter's The Thing but it's the pagan religions stationed in Antarctica, and The Thing is Christianity. "That thing wanted to be us!"

Kamran Husain

in college i had a bro who’s meme was warning others at their actions could impact their “social capital” he was particularly concerning demon

NYCM&AHole

Making me think of adventures in zoochosis by propaghandi with the whole “cell” discussion

Emil

song ID for the opening segment?

opal

great ep, really excited for this series. have you ever read any Pavel Florensky? great eastern orthodox christian philosopher, he goes really deep into the linguistic roots of christian theological terms and wrote extensively on the doctrine of the trinity as well as iconology. (i recently wrote a paper on Wittgenstein’s and his extremely similar criticisms of the law of identity which circles back into Florensky’s thought on triunity. it’s fascinating.) i’d recommend his essay “Doubt” from The Pillar and Ground of the Truth for his writings on aletheia. i’m also curious if you’re familiar with Thomas JJ Altizer’s death of God theology. a lot of your eps seem to get really close to the central thesis of his oeuvre, especially with this one and his essay on Catholic philosophy.

Jaime Christley

For the life of me I couldn't place the episode's header image. I since have (of course it's from the "The Next Day" music video). My meager thought process went "Ok, that's obviously Gary Oldman on the right, and that's gotta be Bowie on the left even though half his face is cropped out, and ...... is that.... Marion Cotillard in the center?" Very big ANNETTE vibes from Cotillard although I haven't seen ANNETTE. For some reason, the only movie I could find that had both Bowie and Oldman in the cast was the 1996 Julian Schnabel film BASQUIAT, in which DB plays Warhol. I don't know why the IMDb didn't yield the music vid, it's supposed to. It can only be attributable to human error. This kind of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error. Anyway it was a Reverse Image Search what dunnit. Cotillard's face, specifically her tears or "tears"..... I'm not trying to be funny or anything but could Bertrand Bonello's HOUSE OF TOLERANCE have been the callback there?

Escheloned Confusions

A few thoughts on Protestantism: I was raised Protestant, and I was explicitly taught that what we believed was *not* a religion. We weren't even part of a denomination, so when asked, we'd call ourselves "non-denominational". Religions, you see, are man-centric attempts to reach heaven. Every other belief system -- from Catholicism to Buddhism to "New Age beliefs" and everything in between -- were "religions" because you had to do something on your own accord to be justified before God or go to heaven or whatever. (Looking back at this conception now from my current perspective, it's really impressive the level of mental gymnastics we'd go through to reach this conclusion.) The Gospel (ie, the true belief system), on the other hand, was God-centric because it relied solely on the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus to be forgiven of our sins, and *any* attempts to add on to that singular work would be "as filthy rags" (from one of the verses in Isaiah we memorized) and you wouldn't make it to heaven. The whole deal was "faith alone, NO works necessary!" and if you tried to earn it yourself, bzzt wrong answer bucko, buh-bye, no heaven for you! So I agree with your point that Protestantism isn't really a religion, we thought so too. Also, a point about the term "saints" and how my sect of Protestantism understood it. If you're a "believer" (you've accepted the gospel and are "saved"), you're a saint, end of story. It was used as a synonym for "Christian" or "believer", and we viewed saint-worship as idolatry. I'm so happy to be out of that mess. I'm still working to get over some of the fucked up shit I internalized from being raised in it.

Harry

I saw an interview with Yanis Varoufakis where he called the direction of Neo Liberal austerity leading to “techno-feudalism”, which has become one of my favorite neologisms.

jfk truther

wrapping up Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, apt timing for discussion on paganism

Welcome2mylife

Michael S Judge is FINALLY talking about God and how he can make me more bigger.

Ocko

Can we have an episode of MSJ doing impersonations of various British people plz?

Jaime Christley

Bill Burr recently chatted with Paul Anka on his podcast, and he shared some memories of what it was like to be the labor in the music industry when he was just starting out. The bosses maybe didn't know shit about making music but they had already developed ten thousand ways to pick your pocket. Like there'd be some teamster looking hog hanging around the studio and he'd say something like "Ey listen uhhh, in this song, instead of 'baby', say 'sweetheart'" and voila you were paying this fucking chooch off for the rest of time, as a "writer". Anka referred to it as "write a word, take a third". Amazing

Nick GiRAFfe

The guys at TMK (This Machine Kills) podcast made an extremely similar point about venture capitalists in Silicon Valley and film producers/execs & tv show runners to yours in this episode about music producers/label execs in their recent episode, 'A Writer, Producer, and Robot Walk Into a Room' (~min. 43)

QUARANTINE DREAM

awesome. exactly what i've been looking for lately. excellent work Mike.