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Episode 205 - COVID Reckoning? (w/ Robby Soave & Walker Bragman) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-08-29 11:37:53
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2026-06
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Content

This week, Briahna invites her libertarian Rising co-host Robbie Soave to have a good faith conversation about the limits of COVID policy. He's joined by journalist and co-founder of Opt Out Media Walker Bragman, who has been covering what he argues is a failure of the government to offer mitigation interventions that could save thousands of lives. Has the left conceded unnecessary ground to the right as it dismisses libertarian concerns about mask mandates and vaccines? Is it unrealistic to keep schools closed with limited child care support for parents, and education delays holding kids back? Or is that a false trade off given how little has been done to make returning to school as safe as it could be, with clear masks, ventilators, and testing? This might be the good-est faith conversation about the failures and limits of COVID policy you've heard yet.

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube to access our full video library. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands)

Comments

Rashida Islam

I think it would be difficult to enforce vaccine mandates. But it isn't impossible to implement other mitigation measures such as lockdowns, masking and tested. This twinned with financial support for everyone ensures a proper COVID public health policy in place which protects as many people as possible. Glad to hear Bragman raising long covid.

Rentaro Matsukata

It would probably have been nice to have someone like Vinay Prasad on if the debate was about health policy rather than about politics. Neither guests brought any statistical arguments substantiated by clinical studies.

Samuel Cain

As far as the " high quality mask" thing goes I think the science is kinda a wash in that data collected came from pretty unserious participants. I wear a "low quality" lmao neck gaiter mask and I have not contracted Covid despite being Frontline working since the start so take my advice; microfiber masks are hydrophobic and need to be washed less frequently than other cloth masks

Noah Hinrichsen

Could we get ONE discussion with an immunocompromised person or someone classified as high risk? It’s amazing to me that we haven’t a single guest from a high-risk group; throughout the pandemic the high-risk are consistently talked about but never talked to. It’s vile that I’m sitting here listening to some asshat talk about how “can’t understand people through a mask” like that’s a legitimate point. What a privilege it must be to be so misinformed and yet so listened to, and what a waste it was to listen to this episode.

Jonathan Kadmon

I'm a frontline healthcare provider and I never got it. I'm in EMS so I've been neck deep in it from the beginning. There's several other people I work with who are also in the same category. I think we might be superheroes like the X Men. But yeah the notion that everyone's necessarily gonna get it doesn't really track with my experience.

Anonymous

Sorry, Brie, I know you work so hard to set up these episodes, but this was an opinion-joust, when it really needed to be a fact-joust. The number of times Walker kept making anecdotal and emotional appeals to the toll on children without offering one solid statistic, well, it was ... tough to listen to. Also, just the fact that the *lack* of facts and statistics kept going unchallenged made it a tough listen as well. I was *begging* someone in the conversation to say, "OK, so what is the actual Covid death-rate for children, as compared to adults?" Or, "OK, but what is the actual data on long-Covid in children? Is this really a thing?" Annnnything. But instead it was maddening to listen to claims about the long-term effects of masks & isolation on children being summarily dismissed as data-less hooey ... but then offering absolutely zero data on the death-rates and long-Covid rates in children. Why does one scenario get a pass on not needing data to back it up, and yet that scenario gets to hang out there without any examination ... while the isolation-harm argument is derided as not having any substantial data? And then Walker kept saying things like, "Well, some kids lost their parents." What? That's not what you all were talking about a mere 2 seconds ago -- you were talking about schools and long-Covid. What on earth does losing one's parents have to do with how to handle schools? So it felt like a lot of that to me: Walker kept making weird appeal-to-emotions pivots like that ... which to me -- with my partial background in science -- is a huge red flag. It tells me we are not doing rational thought and data here, we are doing some kind of emotional campaigning, and this is not how people should ever discuss science. Politicians use anecdotes & emotional appeals to win people over. Scientists use data. Keep in mind, Brie, I don't have a dog in this fight. I was simply trying to listen to the conversation objectively, and these were my impressions: Data, data, data.

Anonymous

I don think you can be mad at people for not wearing masks without being mad at the government for not doing enough. I think masks can be a part of the solution but with stuff like ventilators and tracing have to be an order of magnitude for effective than masks . And feel like more people should be about building more hospitals and having more medical professionals. It sucks that we on,y can talk about the edges of the problem and not the root.

Anonymous

This is the worst episode I have ever listened to on BF. PLEASE have no more Covid bull shot episodes again. I’ve lost respect with you mandate flavor.

Anonymous

Almost everyone is over COVID including plenty of liberals and people on the left. I rarely see people wearing masks outside of medical establishments. People can think for themselves and make their own decisions. Walker sounds like a smarmy school teacher. COVID is not the dress rehearsal for climate change. Climate Change , as far as it’s been seriously discussed in politics, has been going on for almost 2 decades if not longer when it was simply called Global Warming. We have proven that we cannot get it together. Most projections and outcomes of climate change that are studied multiple times are likely to come to pass. It’s inevitable. The human race is not this bastion of collective hope that Walker wishes it was. Wish it all you want, but the reality is that people are short term survival instinct based, selfish and easily manipulated. Climate Change is a slower moving arc than a pandemic but figuring out how to mitigate it will be over time much worse than an acute pandemic.

Josh Bobst

When is Briahna Joy Gray day?

Anonymous

Oh no not again. I don’t listen to this podcast to hear conservatives’ take on things. Not interested or interesting.

Bells

It's encouraging to see how often Ro is willing to come on here. Take notes squad members!! Bri won't bite

Anonymous
>>90767183

It was glorious to witness Robby’s long-form reckoning. He needed to be held accountable for all of his short-sighted views and alternative facts he repeats on Rising. Hearing the other side out is necessary to fully reckon with leftists views as well and to help them fully understand ours, IMO. Robby gets 0.1% more based every day Brie chips away. Bad Faith’s whole purpose is to not engage in echo chamber (shitlib) behavior and I’m grateful Briahna’s willing to do it. 😊🙏🏾

Anonymous
>>90767183

I love your positive attitude and that you really got something from this episode. I do slightly disagree however as the podcasts forays into indulging & debating rightwingers is relatively new, and feels like a bit of a shift during 2022. I listen to this podcast to get insight and clarity from leftists, leftists who like Brie are smarter & more erudite than I am and who are experts in their field. The forays into balance with rightwing voices doesn’t teach me anything because those voices already dominate the English language media so I know all their poorly thought through talking points and excuses to cover up their true motivations (it’s usually just greed for more money!). I appreciate that podcasts are not just made for me but for long periods of time this podcast felt like that. Not so much anymore. I will definitely keep listening to the free episodes but thinking of moving my subscription either elsewhere or adding it to my existing monthly foodbank donation. Still a massive fan of Brie ofc. I’d love to see a monthly regular episode with Trevor and Leslie, that’d be fun and educate me.