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Full Video: Coleman Hughes on Defund, Candace Owens, Kanye, Identity Politics & More (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-10 20:29:57
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Full video is up on Bad Faith YouTube. 


See you tonight at 7:30 PM EST for Callin! - B


[EDIT: J/K, 8:30]

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Previews only

Coleman Hughes & Briahna Gray DEBATE Identity Politics, Defund the Police, Candace Owens & Kanye

In a break from the horse race, Briahna spoke to writer, podcaster, and conservative Black intellectual Coleman Hughes about Kanye, Candace, & the state of Black conservatism, the Defund movement, identity politics, white guilt, Elon Musk, censorship, and more in an intimate, free flowing conversation. Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube to access our full video library. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod). Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands)

Comments

Anonymous

Can you try and get maxwell frost (the first gen z-er in congress) on bad faith? 😁

Louis Waweru

The neutral fact phenomenon is interesting, but not for slavery as much as for the surprisingly close proximities they maintain around us (for example, having the thought that the homeless person you step over is dead, before dismissing it, etc.). Linking feelings like guilt to slavery leaps over the more recent and likely cause: endemic white power racism. Instances of which are systematic, but also occur in situations that a non-white person would never find themselves in, like around colleagues, friends, or family members with guards down, who reveal their racism for a laugh, or in relaxed candor, or in protest of kid's interracial dating. Maybe maintaining passivity by letting it slide or ignoring it turns into something like guilt? Maybe other ethnicities do the same, and also feel bad about it, and it's not a white thing? If this is hard to picture, imagine childhood and being a bully, or friends with the bullies, or laughing along with them, and then decades later being reminded of this in the form of a national debate, or by your child who is now being bullied or is one. I think this is closer to what this racial “guilt” must be like, in the context used here of comparing slavery, and imagine it could be more common to regularly be exposed to closed-door racism than not. I think it must come from something that is still being observed firsthand. Victimhood as a choice is another interesting message, but if it can only be known by one’s self then that was about as loudly as it can be said. It’ll be interesting to see how these conversations change over time. If they’re no longer about race, either mental rigidity continues to lose to flexibility, or true progress has been made, or both. If it will continue to be about race though, I hope the insights are turned on undoing the neutral facts of racism like those found in the Constitution, rather than solidifying them with potential takeaways like "if slavery is a neutral fact, then what isn't?"

Anonymous

Cool Convo. Substance wise I don’t know what this served. I do have to say Coleman Hughes I highly very much disagree with all your conservative hero’s in Glenn Loury, John McChorter, and The other guy who I thought was dead this whole time I forget his name because his understanding of finances is utterly not that convincing and small minded. Heart breaking upbringing though. I look at them as Gate Keepers of the Black Community/Black Progress and I say that as a Black Social Conservative. But I know when an Economy is set up against a certain class and color of people they tend to not want to wrestle with those facts as Black Men.

Anonymous

I'd be curious for an interview with a retired military person (enlisted) about race relations. The military is conservative but also free from the dog eat dog pressures of capitalism, and around 25% black enlisties.

Anonymous

Loved it! Coleman is an excellent example of intellectual curiosity with the aim of arriving at a more accurate picture of reality in all its nuances vs ideologically derived narrative

Anonymous
>>95387083

“The other guy” you thought was dead and who you casually dismiss as “small minded” and as failing to have an adequate understanding of “finances”, is Thomas Sowell. He has a degree from Harvard in Economics, Masters from Columbia and Ph.D. from University of Chicago. Most of this was done pre civil rights. He is a highly respected writer on a number of subjects and has something like 30-40 books and a nationally syndicated column along with too many awards and recognitions to count. If you were to have a debate with Thomas Sowell on “finances”, how do you think that would go for you?

Anonymous
>>95387083

not "a certain class" nor "a certain color", just the Negro. Crayola anachronisms is how we've gotten to the (likely) end of Affirmative Action.

Anonymous
>>95387083

And what’s his accolades have to do with this faulty economic theory again? I’ve read some of his work and I’ve read more of those who he derives his ideas from and just like I disagree with them I disagree with him.

Anonymous
>>95387083

I don’t think he’d want to debate me in economic theory because their theories are living out themselves if you look at what’s happening in the world today so unless he wants to say yes my theory was faulty I don’t see him wanting to debate and be in good faith.

David Levy
>>95400610

Bullshit. This guy by his own words is defined specifically by a lack of intellectual curiosity and fear of learning. This is the problem with American conservatism, this idea that things work now so don't rock the boat. It's incredibly dumb and objectively a failure as an argument and these are the people that hold humanity back from progress. He should feel a deep, deep sense of shame for being so opinionated on things he by his own admission has not studied at all and just assumes no one else has either. TL;DR this interview was interesting but Coleman didn't make a single salient point during the entire conversation. I hope someday he reevaluates if he should be basing his entire belief structure on only his own observation and not studying other people's solutions to life's problems because until then he will drain on our political discourse. Edit: Also I want to be clear that I appreciate Coleman is coming at this from a good faith perspective, I just think his view is incredibly myopic. He does clearly identify the difference between people who earnestly believe in what they say and the grifters like Candice Owens who deliberately misuse facts to push people into their revenue and propaganda streams though which is a good step to making a healthy media environment.

Anonymous
>>95400610

I've been listening to Coleman for years, and based on those countless hours, I don't think we're talking about the same person... He's not even politically conservative, for one thing. Anyway I'm not going to go point by point as I'm sure that would be... Pointless. Which is not to throw shade, but if you've actually listened to a lot of Coleman and that's your takeaway, we just have two incredibly different ways of thinking

Michelle B

I found this episode to be really informative. It definitely raised some questions for me about how much work we need to do in terms of helping people understand the job of social workers taking care of the mentally ill. You did such a good job of trying to clarify that it is a very physical task... I wonder what we would need to do to help other people redefine roles in a way where the main disagreement isn't just a conception around what specific jobs entail. It definitely makes you think about how much of the disagreement around defund is just semantic. I always preferred and used defund... But I feel like ultimately if the goal is efficacy, maybe finding either new terms or redefining terms that help people get to the same understanding faster is more useful, as you said. Sad I missed the Callin!

Anonymous
>>95440027

What difference would it make? Opposition to police reform is on principle not because of the slogan. Get real.

Michelle B
>>95440027

As someone who has spent quite a bit of time organizing for this in LA, I have not found that to be the case. The most frequent issue we ran up against was literally people not understanding that money was going to other ways of actually solving the problems. Even when we were talking to Republicans if we described a system with different specializations to deal with issues it significantly reduced opposition. And I found a similar response from liberals who were probably pulling their initial reactions from TV news. Obviously every state is different... And you will always have people who just don't agree... But at least for LA the nuance made a huge difference in support. And if we could get people to look at things like the Peoples City Council redistributive budget that went even further.

Anonymous

Maybe I am being too cynical I thought it went without saying that defund the police is a reform protest. Keep up the good work. Also I live in LA as well I like what you're doing.

David Levy
>>95400610

I haven't listened to anything else by him, that analysis is just based on this interview. It's entirely possible he's completely different in other forums but essentially every point he made boiled down to "there's probably some intellectual wisdom in tradition but I won't do any work to verify if that's true and if so what is valuable." That is lazy and just an excuse to base everything on personal observation rather than truly taking into account other points of view. I find it incredibly sad.

Anonymous
>>95400610

Yeah, I can see how Coleman statements about tradition in isolation could be interpreted that way, but I took it not as his primary analytic framework and much more his way of pushing back on the proclivity of others to identify problems with existing systems and conclude that those systems must be completely torn down because of those issues.

Anonymous
>>95400610

As for the general knee-jerk rejection of Coleman for not aligning with a general "Leftist" worldview, well, it's conversations like this that are the only reason I support and love Bad Faith. If it were just a podcast of leftists talking about leftism with other leftists, I'd absolutely take my money and time elsewhere

David Levy
>>95400610

It's not that he doesn't align with a leftist worldview, it's that he's not bringing any suggestions to the table. He's beating on the edge cases of his opposition so he doesn't have to engage with actually opposing ideas. I welcome a discussion with conservatives but what happened in this interview wasn't useful. If he had better ideas he wouldn't rely so heavily on a response of "don't change stuff because there's probably some value in it but I don't know..." If you think you have better ideas, express them, don't just pretend that no progress can ever be made on problems you yourself identify. It's what makes modern US conservatism a complete joke; they are no longer discussing ideas of how to improve things just culture war distractions to prevent any change. It's a really fucked up and selfish thing to do your fellow citizens. I would much rather have a discussion about how to conserve actual resources but the US conservative movement is fundamentally uninterested in anything of the sort.

Anonymous
>>95400610

To clarify, that last comment of mine wasn't directed at you, David. That said, I do find it endlessly frustrating to hear Bries listeners conflate Coleman with "conservatives". I get that ya'll don't know him beyond this episode, but I can promise you he's not a "conservative" by any conventional definition

Samuel Cain
>>95440027

You both have a point, it is reform but it’s also an ideological front that has changed minds. I tend to worry about the actual efficacy of any reform campaign as this tends to take power and possibility out of the hands of regular people and ends up disorganizing and disempowering a movement that has no lever to grip and are therefore non-effective strategies, materially speaking

Anonymous

I have to say, I was going to skip this one and I am really glad that I did not. I am trying to teach myself to have more patience with people who have varying views because they are not just opportunities to counter a position, but can also be an opportunity to learn something new. I was pleasantly surprised hear some of the responses. Mr. Hughes also reminded me to be conscientious of the varied experience of Black people who did not grow up with limited opportunities because of their generational wealth. We are not a monolith and a reminder of that is never a bad thing.

DrSmart
>>95444036

The defund the police movement makes sense if it means reforming the police, likely by increasing their funding, as Coleman points out

Anonymous

OMG! I had to stop when the conversation reached a level of stupidity IMO with the guest insisting that police force is definitely necessary to deal with a mentally ill person who is having a psychotic break. How myopic can you be, not to realize that mental health professionals have experience and training in how to deal with people having a psychotic breakdown and they are not doing it with guns. When he asked Bri why she thinks the mother with the mentally ill child calls the police when the child is in breakdown, the correct response in my view was because, as a society that’s all we have to call on in an emergency and that is the genius of the problem. All we have is police force to deal with every type of emergency that may arise. If there was a mental health unit to call for help she wouldn’t be calling the police. This is why police funds should begin to be reallocated to create specialized units for dealing with specialized emergencies such as mental health emergencies, unhoused people emergencies and probably also domestic violence emergencies for example. Let’s leave conventional police to deal with the conventional crime emergencies and get some specifically trained people to deal with things where guns are not going to be helpful in resolving the emergency.