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Episode 267 - Lost in Translation (w/ Erin Reed) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-10 12:17:01
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Briahna speaks to Erin Reed, a journalist who has been covering the hundreds of anti-trans bills that have been proposed this year more closely and thoroughly than perhaps anyone in the country. They discuss the activist community's disappointment over Biden's recent compromise on Title IX and trans women in sports, and Briahna asks some tough questions in an effort to give voice to what is perhaps some good faith confusion about how to negotiate the reality that sports are currently divided on the basis of physical advantages associated with those whose sex is assigned male at birth. They also discuss messaging around the gender identity of the Nashville shooter, the recent dust up around the Emily Yoffe article which allegedly misrepresented a nonbinary child's experience with gender affirming care, and more.

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).

Comments

Anonymous

Thank you for this episode! Amazing job as always Brie. I am convinced that we should use the “vibes” method with trans athletes at high levels of competition. They really are such a small group of people that it makes sense to go on a case by case basis. Like Erin said, unless the numbers drastically increase then we can revisit it later. But as of now, it really is not an issue.

Anonymous

I really wish half this episode wasn't dedicated to the sports question. It's an important discussion to have and maybe it was a good opener because it's a place many leftists see as a weakness. Still there are so many laws being passed that attack trans autonomy and attempts to define us out of existence I really wish more time had been spent on those issues.

Nick Grayson
>>106051796

But it *is* an issue and a woman was just violently assaulted by pro trans activists over it. That’s not okay!

Anonymous
>>106051796

Thats hardly indicative of all trans women and is no reason to blanket ban an entire group of people.

Dylan

Thank you so much for this Brie!!! TRANS RIGHTS

Adam H.

Erin's entire argument for the sports question in a nutshell - It's not a big deal. Sorry, but that really doesn't address the concern.

Anonymous
>>106061387

Are you a high level competitive athlete that had an opportunity taken away due to a trans athlete? I’m just going to guess and say no lol. So I don’t take your “concern” seriously

Adam H.
>>106061387

I'm not an athlete at all actually, but it is important to point out that just saying it's not a big deal is not a winning argument no matter which side you're on.

Anonymous
>>106053406

I’m sure additional episodes would be forthcoming given the interest!

Anonymous
>>106061387

It was a winning argument for me. Pointing out how small of a number of high level trans athletes really are helped put it in perspective for me. Unless you’re already bigoted towards trans people, I feel like saying it’s not a big deal actually works

Adam H.
>>106061387

I understand that overall it's not a big deal, but if you're going to develop this into a fully fledged argument capable of answering this question, then you need to address the reason that sports are segregated in the first place. She seems to actually address the fact that this is a real issue and the idea that it's okay because it's on such a small scale implies that it would not be okay on a large scale. Let me be clear, I did not express a view for our against trans athlete participation in women's sports. I've only pointed out my concern with this argument, yet you're accusing me of being a bigot whose concerns don't matter.

Anonymous
>>106061387

I didn’t call you a bigot, that was a hypothetical. And you’re right, I think she is arguing that it’s not a big deal because it’s very very small scale. That’s why she also says that if it does become large scale in the future then we can address then. But until then, it’s not a big deal.

Anonymous

I haven’t heard the episode yet but was there any discourse on developing additional categories for trans athletes to compete in? Maybe a coed division that’s gender neutral and cuz people that are fierce Allie’s can choose to join as well.

Nick Grayson
>>106079428

There’s just flippant dismissal of the issue altogether and no mention of what happened to Riley Gaines. I say that as a fan of Bri and the podcast and I get why they wouldn’t touch it for this episode but I have to call them like I see them.

Anonymous
>>106079428

Idk who Riley Gaines is and based on ur response I guess the answer is no

Anonymous
>>106079428

Yeah I’m personally not going to white knight for this white conservative woman. Probably shouldn’t have gotten hit but people are allowed to counter protest and they dont have to be super nice to someone just cuz they’re a woman. Letting a white woman spew her spiel without any blowback isn’t great feminism either.

Nick Grayson
>>106079428

You choosing to sit out the violent assault of a woman that committed the crime of “saying something a tiny fraction of the population disagrees with” will make you effectively incapable of maintaining a majoritarian political movement that could start to actually improve society. This was a step too far and the left is going to collapse if it lets it stand

Anonymous
>>106079428

White people love going to bat for other awful white people lmfao. Also again where is the data that “only a tiny fraction of the population supports trans women in sports?”

Anonymous
>>106084556

Transwomen in women's sports is a losing proposition. Americans don't want it.

Anonymous
>>106079428

A lot of issues on the left don’t poll that well especially at one point in time. That doesn’t mean we automatically cede the ground.

MeatStepLively
>>106061387

Take that line of thought and apply it to trans issues in general: that’s where I’ve been since about 2015 when this kicked off. This isn’t an issue that should be sucking this much oxygen in the discourse. It’s absurd.

Nick Grayson
>>106079428

If this is an “issue on the left” then I don’t want to be part of “the left” anymore. Riley isn’t awful. It sucks the rightoids are the ones offering her a platform but it’s because we let women and free speech down and people don’t trust us anymore

MeatStepLively
>>106079428

If the libs want to keep riding the “trans rights” hobby horse…god bless. It’s not going to end well. I mean that both politically and socially. I live in a neighborhood in Chicago that happens to have a lot of trans/they/them people in it. I’m 40 and have watched the numbers skyrocket over the past decade as this became a media hysteria. I’m sorry, but a whole lot of the people adopting these identities are just mentally unwell. My neighbor is trans and she presents as borderline schizophrenic in our polite dog walking chit-chat: this isn’t an anomaly in the neighborhood. I see people w/ schizo eyes walking around in sun dresses on a daily basis.

Anonymous
>>106079428

Not a leftist no. I'm telling you right now this is a losing problem for so-called leftists. True leftists would be in solidarity with natural born women on this particular question.

Anonymous
>>106079428

Which is why we should push for universal health care rather than trying to explain a correlation as a causation.

Nick Grayson
>>106079428

A lot of them are probably too scared to be at this point. Look at the consistency and scale of the backlash

Anonymous

This overpower of the transwomen influence against women's sports is controlled by people who are "very online" and disconnected from real life.

Nick Grayson
>>106079428

A woman was ASSAULTED. Punched and harassed and sheltered from danger for 3 hours. That’s NOT a fair consequence. That is WRONG.

Anonymous
>>106085908

When I hear discussions about Trans people it is almost exclusively about trans women. Cis women and their opinions are always irrelevant. Where are the Trans men who are competing with Cis men? Why is this always about Trans women v. Cis women? I mean, there are so few actual Trans people, and even fewer who completely transition - removing breasts, penises and complete reconstruction. It just feels so much like just another social issue meant to drive us apart. You know what hurts EVERYONE of all sorts of genders, sexes, and labels? - The RESTRICT ACT turbo charges censorship & surveillance - Forever War - Trains are STILL derailing and poisoning communities. - Biden and BOTH TEAMS continuing their quiet privatization of Medicare - Increasing the SS retirement age. This subject is important. But when will Brie do an episode on Workers Strike Back? The upcoming UPS Strike? THIRD PARTIES? Instead of another Social Issue or another soft-sell of Marianne the Entitled Rich Bitch Hippy?

Adam H.

It's ridiculous to even categorize this as you're either left wing and you support trans women in women's sports or you're a right wing bigot. This is a total failure to address the fact that there is a significant portion of the American population that doesn't spend much time thinking about trans issues at all, and generally are not bigoted, but understand quite intuitively the reason that we segregate sports. These are the people that you have to convince if you're going to develop this into a majority opinion. Telling them that it's just not a big deal and calling them bigots if they disagree is not an effective strategy. I don't understand how this is even categorized as a left issue. As a leftist, I'm here for economic issues and materialist perspectives. This fight for trans recognition is a liberal issue, not a left one. Remember, political ideology is not a binary.

purr
>>106109586

You don't think that children's access to physical health and education and joy is a leftist issue?

Adam H.
>>106109586

I guess it depends on how you achieve those things. I have my own leftist views on those matters, but I believe that everyone from just about every ideology believes in those things in some form or another. I doubt you'll find a right winger that says that they're against the well being of children. What separates us is how we go about it.

Anonymous
>>106079428

Do you have any capability of nuance or do you just regurgitate slogans. “Won’t defend a white woman” “freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequences” “you’re not a real leftist!” You’re the problem dude. And you don’t see it. And you’ll say I’m the problem or someone else is there because you can’t see how this issue isn’t LEFT 4 TRANS ALWAYS and RIGHT AGAINST TRANS ALWAYS. It’s just quite elementary.

Anonymous

The explainer often goes “gender is expression and sex is physical” or that gender and sex are separate. Transgender people don’t like the term transsexual which more aptly describes a person who has surgically transitioned. But if we go by the logic that gender and sex are 2 different things “a man can have a penis/give birth” and that sports are sex segregated then how does this land exactly for a person who is of one biological sex living as the other gender to compete in the category of the sex they were not assigned at birth. This is a big flaw in this argument if we are going to continue to say sex and gender are totally separate and then continue to blur the distinctions when it’s convenient. The arguement isn’t as cohesive as trans activists/Allys like to thing which is why many people not just right wing have more nuanced takes on it. Erin saying it’s a red herring because the number is small is not a great counter. I can counter that police only shoot and kill 9 Black men a year and that the outrage makes it seem like hundreds. That doesn’t mean it’s ok for there too be a violation of rights though and so it’s worth being an issue. I will agree though the amount of time devoted to this issue is ridiculous and that’s the red herring. Not simply the basis of the issue at all though.

Anonymous
>>106079428

That’s not true at all because my og post with questions was validating why the sports issue issue is complicated. But at the end of the day it’s a problem if “leftists” are more comfortable defending the majority who aren’t being oppressed over marginalized people This Riley girl tied with a trans girl for fifth place meaning FOUR cis girls did better than her. Yet she’s displacing all of her ire at the trans community. That’s rooted in bigotry. And for some of you to go to bat for her when you probably don’t care about women’s sports anyways is revealing. YOU’RE the problem and you’ve been the problem.

Anonymous
>>106085908

Similarly to the reasons why when gay people are discussed it’s almost always around gay men. I think this is because society believes there is a real threat for males to be different than the norm and that males are more deviant. There’s always been a dismissal of lesbians as not being “real” or not finding the right man. She’s just confused. He’s a threat. I also think that trans women are more identifiable than transmen. I think it’s more often easier for a women to transition to man and “pass” than vice versa.

Adam H.
>>106202767

You're absolutely correct. They say that sex and gender are different things but they're unwilling to talk about sex.

Sigh

Erin Reed was such a poor ambassador for the side of the trans activists. Bri brought up a number of good concerns that the "mainstream" American might have, and Erin didn't really steel-man any of the arguments. Based on other comments, it appears many others are also disappointed in this guest. My reasonable-faith explanation for why Erin did such a poor job, was that she's used to bad-faith attacks or considers the stakes so high that no "good point" can be given the "the other side". Very disappointing. If anything, I'm more this-trans-moment-skeptical.

Sigh

Erin Reed was such a poor ambassador for the side of the trans activists. Bri brought up a number of good concerns that the "mainstream" American might have, and Erin didn't really steel-man any of the arguments. Based on other comments, it appears many others are also disappointed in this guest. My reasonable-faith explanation for why Erin did such a poor job, was that she's used to bad-faith attacks or considers the stakes so high that no "good point" can be given the "the other side". Very disappointing. If anything, I'm more this-trans-moment-skeptical.

Tony Brut

Thought it was a good episode. Lots of transphobic haters in the comment section. Get a life losers lol