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Supplementary Material 4: Passive Aggressive Therapists, Shit-posting Monks, and Weaponised Naivety (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-13 21:48:02
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We ponder whether, due to our naivety, we actually deserve the gurus and other topics, including:

Is Hasan Piker even better than we said?

The ethical quandaries of online therapy with Dr. K

The False Halos of Status and Success

The Rest is History Luther series and parallels with Secular Gurus

The Power of Polemicists: Peterson, Trump, and Martin Luther?

Secular vs. Religious Gurus

Shit-posting Missives

Orthodoxic Atheism and Orthopraxic Religion

Lex Fridman's Reflections on Intellectual Humility

Some important Messages from the hosts

Links

Game Rant Article about Hasan Piker's Donation to Strike Funds

Uncovering the Higher Truth about Jay Shetty by John McDermott

Coffeezilla Interview with John McDermott

Dr. K and Doctor Mike: Debating The Value Of Eastern Medicine (Ayurveda)

That stream with Dr. K and his wife

The Rest is History: Series on Martin Luther

Article by Chris in Aeon about Orthopraxic Religion

Lex's extremely humble tweet about his intellectual humility

Files

Comments

Kyle Dun

Hahaha. My wife would have told me to fuck right off if I said that to her in a stream (not that I stream) but let's say rather, in public. And she'd have been on the money. That's why I love her.

Sonje Finnestad

Indeed, the foundation for Luther was his doctrine of grace (or, you might say, God's love), rather than his objections to indulgences. And yes, he was something of a master of scatological invective. He certainly had his flaws but, as you anticipated, I take vigorous exception to the notion that he is like Jordan Peterson! It is certainly interesting to see him as something of a guru, the twitter-pamphlet parallel is apt as well as amusing ("shit-posting"!), and I enjoyed the discussion of orthodoxy and orthopraxy. I'll probably say more later — I am a Lutheran pastor and should not be taking time from my sermon to listen to DTG on Saturday afternoon! Thank you for the apology to Lutherans, by the way :-)

aneladgam_varelse

I think dr K in his convo with dr K used a shittone of therapy language to manipulate dr Mike into endorsing Ayurveda on stream

Linda Sears

The Dr. K clip with his wife was quite disturbing. My husband’s ex-wife used a good deal of therapy speak to undermine and manipulate him. She is now a licensed marriage and family therapist. 🥺😢

aneladgam_varelse

btw dr K is addiction psychiatrist, so you can find content for Matt

Mert

In a bout of my dislike for Hasan, I tried to figure out how true the claims about merch being union-made or made in America are. I find it curious that the part-owner of his merch company, is a influencer-merch provider/white label manufactorer, with a factory in China. I could find no mention about who actually produces the merch on the website. My small tinfoilhat conspiracy is that he might be decieving about the place of origin of the merch.

Emma

The host of 'no girls on the internet' discovered she was blocked by Lex. She has never mentioned him on twitter and she had no idea how he even knew about her. Maybe he's just pre-emptively blocking all leftish podcasters in case they might mention him in the future???

James P.

Really enjoyed this week's episode of The Mean one vs. Words, where we were offered a scintillating history lesson on midevil monk, Dr. Martin Luther King. Even The Nice One got the heebie jeebies from a Ayurvedic chauvinist streamer, strongly recommend, folks!

Emma

The whole anti capitalism capitalist business reminds me of one of my current biggest pet peeves. I cannot deal w how many women have bought into the idea that the Barbie movie, a movie approved by Mattel and used by them to launch a new line of plastic dolls, is some sort of feminist masterpiece! It kills me! I'm fully expecting the next step will be a touching drama about the life and times of Philip Morris. And at some point Philip will say how it really hurts his feelings when people say he causes lung cancer when really he's also had loved ones die of cancer and it made him sad! And then they'll launch a new line of woke cigarettes and everyone will herald them for raising awareness about cancer, or some such crap.

JP

If Martin Luther encountered Jordan Peterson in a time-warp, I’d bet he’d have redirected this remark of his to the piker Peterson: “Thou can eat all the meat you want but Thou shalt not write a book unless you have listened to the fart of an old sow, to which you should open your mouth wide and say ‘Thanks to you, pretty nightingale, do I hear a text which is for me?’” All but the comment about meat eating from his “Table-Talk,” a very instructive and absorbing text, indeed. I say that and I’m an atheist absolutist.

Jarod S

“Just the right type of stupid” - hilariously apt

Lys

Lex continues to prove how pathologically naive he is... Maybe also how much he shuts down his critical thinking to legitimate criticism. Probably calls Rogan or Elon when he gets overwhelmed by it all, then writes one of his love fueled cop outs.

Barrett

Hosts, what was the book you read prior to Dominion? Also that callback of the Dr. K thing Chris did to Matt at the end was hilarious

Quietscheentchen

The Hosts' are showing their bias towards the Catholic establishment. If only they could be more impartial (like Lex).

Tim Tripp

Lex reminds me of China in regards to the Russia-Ukraine war; claim to be neutral but if you look at what they actually do it is clear they have chosen a side. The wrong side in my view.

S Garvey

I think the guru who figures out how to be both evangelical and progressive will win. ;-0. at least in the USA. Hulu is streaming a documentary about an evangelical church called Hillsong (originally from Australia). They located a church in NYC that became wildly popular because the charismatic pastor never did the fire and brim stone thing - didn't promote conservative morality, was accepting of LBGTQ+, was multi-cultural. The music director was a married gay man. the church was over capacity on Sundays and had wait lists for attendance. It collapsed eventually (the usual reason - sexual indiscretion).

jodcr

On the bit about Christianity and Europe at the end. I recently read a book called “Christendom: the Triumph of a Religion” by Peter Heather. One of the central themes of the book is that elite Roman cultural values changed Christianity far more than Christianity changed Rome. Essentially, Christianity was an urban religion practiced by fairly small, radical communities. Once Constantine the Great announced that he was a Christian, the centralized structure of the imperial court created an organic pressure among Roman elites to convert. But those elites put a Christian pastiche on their existing norms and culture rather than allowing themselves to be fundamentally transformed by the ideas of early Christians. And so the Christianity that emerges within a few generation of Constantine is very different than the what it was before.

Ymirsdreams

This episode touched on a favourite bug-bear of mine: An unstated major premise which has plagued philosophy and religion for centuries is the assumption that if someone has some how acquired true and valid knowledge, or even gnosis, about reality that this will somehow have an impact on their, or anyone else's, emotional regulation, inter personal skills, or habits. History and individual practise have shown over, and over again that simply having a narrative or even an understanding, no matter how beautiful or coherent, about reality does not necessarily make one a 'better' person. For example, I'm sure Brian Cox is a nice chap, but I don't think he is because he got a physics degree.

Linda Sears

It’s so interesting to me that Luther gets so much credit for criticizing the Catholic Church when others had been doing so long before him. Dante put a pope in his Inferno (1321) for selling indulgences, and Chaucer satirized a character, called The Pardoner, for doing the same in his Canterbury Tales (ca. 1387). My theory about Luther, based on things I’ve read about him, is that he had an abusive father, never felt good enough for God, which is why he kept going to confession as a monk, and felt great relief with his solo fide view because he could replace the punishing god in his mind with a loving one. Unfortunately, once he came to his interpretations, he was emboldened by his certainty. His feelings towards the Jews, who he thought would convert when he showed them “the truth,” were awful. He is a multifaceted character.

collapsing

These supplementals are a genius move….way more digestible and free flowing detached from the body of a decoding which is its own thing. I think you’re doing the Lord’s work with highlighting Lex Fridman’s bullshit which will easily go under the radar as on the surface compared to the other ex IDW types or Musk he clearly presents differently to normies- but he’s just a quietly spoken Rogan wannabe with identical in -group biases and again equally worrying as he’ll suck in another different group to that orbit and glad someone’s calling him out… and Jordan Luther Peterson has quite the ring to it.

David Noble

On the issue of Hasan Piker making money, I suppose my position would be a little bit of the "I am very clever" man in the well, but also I guess I would want to ask: What amount of money would you feel is appropriate for someone with a socialist ideology? There are a whole spectrum of positions to take from a fully Communist to fully Capitalist society. I'd suggest that maybe there are political positions that have socialist and capitalist aspects and it seems Piker is one of those, and that him making millions does not undermine any push for a more socialist society.

Shark McCarthy

I never liked Dr K, but that was tough to listen to. Seems like a good candidate for decoding

Robert Andrews

I read a great book back in around 2010 called A History of Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years, by Diarmaid MacCulloch, about the ways in which Christianity shaped much of the world. It begins with the Greek and Jewish forerunners (hence the 3,000 years), and has really fascinating chapters on the Reformation, and on Orthodox religion. It was interesting to see the origins of the word "iconoclasm" which is where Orthodox Christiniaty destroyed their icons in response to losses to Islamic forces, essentially suspecting that perhaps God was angry with icons and therefore favouring the religion that forbade them. I think it also delves into how much, as you mentioned Holland's book does, ideas of individualism, liberty, the abolition of slavery, and even egalitarianism were based off reinterpretations of the Bible after they were translated into local languages and undermining the Catholic Church's centuries of self-serving doctrines. From what I remember, atheism was not so much a branching off of protestantism, but rather an accusation against anyone who dared waver from official dogma. I think the book was also made into a relatively short series which is impressive in itself given that the book is over 1,000 pages.

Daz

I was interested to hear you're planning to cover Dr K. Before doing so, you really need to watch this documentary about him made by (now-banned) YouTuber MrGirl, which has been re-uploaded to YouTube by a third party and can now be found here: youtu.be/tSMNGZ1dHUQ It includes interviews with doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists, and lays out in meticulous detail how Dr K blurs the line between official therapy and what he does, and doesn't seem to care if his "patients" get the wrong impression (and why that's such a big deal). At one point, for instance, the massively popular streamer Pokimane says "my therapist is Dr K". It shows how Reckful in particular (the streamer who ended up killing himself) wasn't clear on this distinction, and was calling their interactions "therapy" after a few sessions. Dr K even says multiple times how he was advised by lawyers not to start streaming his "therapy" sessions because he could end up getting sued, especially if one of the people he talks to ends up killing themselves (!). The documentary even makes the case that Dr K might have contributed to Reckful's suicide, and shows how he's generally very willing to push boundaries and dig into topics that the other person clearly isn't comfortable talking about, for the sake of views and heightened drama. It also details how after Reckful killed himself, Dr K contacted Reckful's friends and family and told them to leave Dr K's name out of the account of Reckful's final days, possibly indicating he knew he'd been overstepping his professional boundaries and could get sued. For those who don't have an hour to spare, the first half of the documentary is kind of building up to what happens at around the 34 minute mark. It's well worth watching from that point onwards.

Aaron Holder

What a nauseating shit that Doctor K is. I’d rather listen to Red Scare on repeat than an episode of his passive aggressive bleating. Actually, that’s probably not true. My gratitude that you do the listening for us knows no bounds. I look forward to the Doctor K decoding, even though I know he’s going to be awful to learn about.

Jason

Loved the Ideologie spoof- getting a little tired of Chris being disparaging about only being an associate professor- basically a full professor is something who knows nothing about a lot of other stuff- get over it

Jason

Okay, I don’t live in the academic space and assume the banter is a bit tongue in cheek- keep up the good work

lun

I really enjoyed this one.

Paul Bowman

Echo other comments in enjoying the new gazetteer format. Quick word of support for Matt's contention that Luther & cos theological disputations have a definitely modern format - despite Chris ofc being right about it still being religious in content and framework. A rabbit hole I feel down thanks to Liam Bright's piece on "Why I am not a liberal", I realised that my received ideas of Thomist Aristotelianism being the dominant scholastic outlook until Descartes upset the apple cart, was basically untrue. Thomism really only becomes official Catholic church dogma retrospectively during the Counter-reformation. The dominant scholastic tendency within the universities from the 13th century to the Reformation was actually nominalism, including Ockhamism (he of the eponymous razor). And in that light, both Descartes and the other rationalists (Gassendi, Spinoza, etc) and the theology of Luther and Calvin are linked by a continuity with a general trend of proto-modernist thinking of the time. So, yes, I agree with Matt, there is an element of moderism in how Luther, Melancthon, Zwingli and Calvin are forming theological arguments and the contemporary Cartesian "package" at the heart of the scientific revolution. You have the rationalists faith that reality must be internally consistent, free from self-contradictions, universal in applicability and above all, systemic. Which is a different epistemic outlook that other, more revelatory of mystical traditions - whether Mormonism, Chasidism, etc

Emma

I love these new supplement episodes! For those interested in early Christian history I highly recommend the work of historian Bart Ehrman who has written lots of good books and nowdays of course has his own podcast https://www.bartehrman.com/podcast/. I was raised in a very fundamentalist Christian home so we never learnt anything about early Christian history. Perhaps cause it's too much like looking inside the sausage factory! Bart wrote a great book about the various early Christian sects and he argued that they were so dissimilar they were basically different religions. Which is why he called his book 'Lost Christianities' in plural https://www.amazon.com.au/Lost-Christianities-Battles-Scripture-Faiths/dp/0195182499/ref=asc_df_0195182499/?tag=googleshopmob-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=384097092171&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11428981135249991696&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9071337&hvtargid=pla-452072221678&psc=1&mcid=6b59c9965b8e3f17896b1673aa7262d7 .

Matt Dear

Chapo Trap House's series Hell On Earth is a great runthrough of the 30 years war, and features a lot of Luther fun facts. They also draw parallels to current day posters and consipiracy theories. I've never really listened to the parent podcast, not really my jam. But this series is, imo, well worth the patreon paywall. You can listen to the first episode for free I believe.

Andy

I love this podcast, but the one thing I think you guys are completely wrong about is Lex. I'd love to see either of you steelman his position. He tries his best to represent the OTHER person's view when he interviews them. And as a listener, that's what I want. If the guest is an ass, they will more than convey that on their own. I don't need a host picking a side or pushing an agenda. As a listener and interviewer, you actually get LESS information out of a guest that way. There's nothing wrong with how Lex chooses to be. You can criticize him for chasing success as much as any other public podcast figures, that's fine.. But as an interviewer, he brings things out of his guests that you would not hear if he conducted himself differently. I'd rather have more people trying to listen to each other than picking sides and dividing society further. There are already plenty of podcasts for that.

Jonathan Cano

public therapy or struggle session?

Paul Sees

Maybe it's your face 😂

Tree

Im worried for Dr Ks wife. That was such classic controlling behaviour. Hate to think what he's like in private.

Heather Geverding

That Dr. K creepiness recalled Stefan Molyneux's bizarre 'Real Time Relationships'.

Jonathan Cano

I'm happy you broke decoding and supplementary materials into separate shows. I'm actually more interested in the supplementary materials. Sure, I like tuning in when you decode a guru I know (Sam Harris, Sean Carrol) but I'm here for entertainment and hearing the latest on the classic gurus spiraling descent is the most amusing.