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Discussion with Dan Saltman on Dr. K & Guru Tier List (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-27 01:00:03
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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  • 358378464.mp4

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Hi everyone,

Following the Dr. K episode, Destiny's co-host, a long-term critic of Dr. K, suggested a chat on stream about the episode/issues identified. We recorded that a few days ago and ended up spending quite a bit of time on the Gurometer and the Guru Tier list we made and Destiny's placement on it, along with more discussion about the issues around the DDoS kid (the controversy in which Destiny discussed the ethics of killing someone preventing you from working).

The discussion gets quite into the weeds on these issues (pretty standard for streamer chats) and as you might anticipate from Destiny's co-host, it involves some edgy topics, so might not be to everyone's tastes.

Still, I (Chris) enjoyed the discussion and found Dan's POV interesting and some of you might too so am sharing the recording here.

Alternatively, if you do not like streamers and unstructured chats then this might be one to avoid.

Comments

Mark K

Dan kept cutting you off, Chris. Lack of respect for the guest. Needs a lesson in turn taking.

Adam Sher

His criticism of your tier list makes me think he doesn't understand what DtG is or he wants it to be something else.

Salex

I’m enjoying this chat and Dan’s perspective, though it differs from mine in a few ways. I’d push back on the doctors being “in constant panic mode” about their practice. Things like therapeutic relationships / conflict of interest are very well defined in practice and legal precedent. That’s what is so concerning about Dr K’s behaviour. But I’m speaking from Aus which doesn’t have the same litigious culture in medicine as US

Salex

I felt a tiny sympathetic gut punch for Chris with the suggestion that DtG’s Hassan chat was surface level 😂 It’s better for everyone’s sanity to limit scope because it’s pretty concentrated stuff

Brendan Smith

I'm half way through and really struggling to listen to this guy, does anyone know if the second half is at all different and worth sticking with?

Mike Dawson

Chris, I find myself getting my back up when this guy says something even slightly disparaging about your processes… are you my secular guru??

James P.

Dan does not understand the podcast lol. And why is he so fixated on the tier list

Kristen

Haven't listened yet, but just wanted to say that I love you are doing this. I've become quite fond of Dan 👏

Ben

In the first few minutes, Dan's volume is so much lower than Chris's. Does this get fixed? If I turn my speakers up to hear Dan, when Chris talks he's BLASTING!

Liz Tily

I dislike this guest. His New England whiny yell talking was hard to listen to. He has a mansplaining vibe. Also, I’m typically a listen only person maybe bc I’m old probably bc I’m listen while distance running. 48, is that old? The gurometer has artistic nuances from human personality and he can’t grasp that.

David Noble

Hasan and Destiny should stay relatively the same, if not worse for Destiny. Stay strong Chris!

Graham Clarke

Managed 1h45m, couldn’t take any more. That was painful.

Linda Sears

Just started listening. Dan brought up the life coach aspect of Dr. K. I’d like you and Matt to cover life coaches someday, particularly surrounding the ideas of manifesting your best self as this seems like secular guru territory.

Tomek Krzesiński

I will once again remind everyone that Destiny had streets mapped out around the kid’s house and admitted he got a gun permit around that time and was ‘very close’ to doing it. I will also reiterate that hundreds of his fans are, to this day, arguing in favor of his right to do so. If a friend, regardless of how edgy he is, claimed there are circumstances where he should be able to rape a girl, argued that point for years, and admitted he actually tracked her route from work to home and, at that time, bought a ski mask and handcuffs, it would be extremely weird to keep chalking it up to just trolling/fantasizing. Because at what point could you then say there is genuine reason for concern? Is it when he’s in the bushes outside the house? Or maybe not even then, maybe he has to be directly in the house, hovering above the bed? If purchasing a gun, looking at escape routes, and admitting he was ‘very close’ is still not treated with some sort of gravity, then nothing short of him actually doing it would be. It’s very frustrating because, at this point, if he said, ‘You know, there was one day when I drove to his house and sat in my car with my gun because I knew he was in there alone,’ I’m still not sure whether you’d consider that trolling. I genuinely don’t know, and I mean that sincerely. It’s the one case where I feel like DtG has fallen for the same sort of guru dynamics that they’re used to deconstructing. Like Dr. K’s framing of the reprimand, Joe Rogan’s ‘I’m just an idiot, don’t listen to me,’ or Alex Jones’ 'entertainment' defense, the DDOS kid ('everything he ever said or admitted is just trolling') is just another example of a guru’s ability to effectively hand-wave a genuinely disturbing issue.

pitiful_n00b

Such tieranny! 😱 this was like Sam Harris right to reply 1 all over again. He really wasn’t getting you.

Liz Tily

Destiny named himself Destiny. That’s at least 50 vibe points right there.

Mike Nelson

If there are two people I never want to hear about again, it is Dr. K and Destiny, so I'll have to pass on this.

Amy

This guy is such a sycophant. And all of his hypothetical scenarios to justify murder conveniently only involve adults.

Claudia

I enjoyed that in a weird way, even though streamers and especially Destiny really grate on my nerves. Dan not getting what "a podcast", DtG and the Gurometer are all about and trying to give advice (is that what it was?) on how to appeal to a larger audience...? I agree with Chris, I don't like hypothetical scenarios much, where you add constraints at every turn: "But what if...?" And creating a thought experiment where a) someone squeezes the life out of you (not literally, but in a roundabout way) and b) your only option of survival is killing them, is just stupid and uninteresting. In that case it would be self defense and not an ethical question at all, right? What's the point? Or was it a lot more serious actually, and this is just downplaying it now? I don't get this whole thing... I particularly liked the dig at Sam Harris, who probably won't do his research before entering into a collaboration with Destiny. That would indeed be potentially funny to watch...

AzurePropagation

Dan has this tendency to take a first level moral principle analysis and ram it into his conversation partner with no regard for subtlety. His whole “but you should be more responsible and be less vibes based for the greater good” certainly has merits, but it is just seems so insane when applied to something as trivial as a tierlist. This is why he and Steven get along so well. He is obstinately able to take a principle and drive the moral weight of it through. It’s unambiguous and uncompromising. The opposite of snakey. Like - how can you argue “it’s just a little fun” when “people will get a mistaken assumption and you can do better” is being beaten into you over and over? It’s Singer-esque in its condemnation, but surgically applied to whatever he’s arguing. It gets irritating and hard to listen to after a while, and is why his Dr. K comments mostly land badly. Dr K did some sussy shit, but instead of discussing the point by point evidence, he just goes for the utilitarian jugular every time

Robert Jażdżewski

Tier lists are never super serious, and the episode made it clear its just a bit of fun. I would not assume that the tier list detached from the podcast has much power - just a placement without the thought process behind it tells you pretty much nothing, especially when you don't know what DtG means by gurus. I would not curate content towards a group that will not listen to a single episode. Offsetting the gurometer by including positive characteristics would make sense if it was indeed a "total douchebag" scale, but it is not. Whether one likes or dislikes the (potential) guru is a separate thing and I would not muddy the scale by adding a qualitative judgement. I think Dan might not have fully understood what the scale measures, he did say he hasn't listened to the podcast. I am generally a fan of Destiny but the defence of killing the DDOS kid is not worth commenting on, Destiny makes an argument that easy to parrot but obviously is not defensible in the real world ie where there's alternative sources of income. If everyone held his position this would lead to horrible outcomes for everyone.

Tom Kerwin

Is it just me, or does Dan just repeat himself over and over and over? YES WE HEARD THE FIRST TIME, YOU WANT OFFSET FACTORS IN THE GUROMETER

Ty Black

Ugggghhhhh I don't like this guy at allllll. Kudos to you for keeping your cool.

Alex H

The killing the DDOS kid part was quite irritating. Both Dan and Destiny go off into the stratosphere with hypotheticals but can't acknowledge that, in the actual scenario that happend, suggesting murder is totally unhinged. I admired your unwillingness to avoid getting sucked in to the hypotheticals for so long. When he mentioned Singer's drowning children i almost screamed with exasperation!

Kyle Dun

Under Dan's logic. If society goes fully clean energy based. Coal miners are justified in murdering scientists and politicians lol. FFS.

Ymirsdreams

If there's an AI communicating with paperclips and one of them sneaks into it's IP address and steals all of it's large people standing in front of trams, how many ponds do I need to wade through with my new shoes on to rescue a drowning terrorist with a ticking time bomb?

Kyle Dun

I don't know Dan's content much. I've seen some of the anything else podcast with Destiny, and found him annoying. I've found this conversation similarly annoying, even if I think he had a point about the tier list, it was just....yeah annoying. And I wonder if Matt felt a glitch in the Mattrix when Chris threw him under the bus at the end there 🤔 😳 🤣

George

Funny stuff. Think you could summarise Chris's defence as 'it's really not that big of a deal'. Arguing about what position his mate is on the tier is like arguing where you are on Santa's Naught and Nice list

George

Enjoyed listening but this was such a pointless conversation haha. The TLDR is man is annoyed his friend is criticised by arbitrary list.

Sam

Love Dan

David Hohle

Maybe influence gets ranked 1-2 in .1 or .05 increments as a multiplier of the total score.

Linda Sears

This was actually kind of fun. My favorite part was when Chris introduced a Scooby Doo type scenario as a way to scare off the DDos kid.

332

So basically Dan saw a meme tierlist on the Destiny subreddit posted by some upset Destiny simp, spent zero time understanding what the podcast or scoring is about or what that tierlist actually is, and blindly argues about the scoring he does not understand for hours.

Magnus

I can’t believe he takes this tier list so seriously lol

Ty Black

So much bs here because Dan hasn't actually listened to the episodes and he's trying to hold you to some "standard" - he doesn't know what the standard is. What an asshat.

Filip Palla

2+ hours of Destiny fanboy loosing his mind over fun tierlist.

Ryan Booker

Is Performatively Obtuse on the gurometer?

Ryan Booker

* it was interesting and funny. Thanks for the posting it. :)

Vee

I'll never click with that whole mentality of having a bigger following/channel is an automatically good thing. The way some of these guys talk about people with "no following" almost like it's a moral failing, always rubs be the wrong way. Other than that, I enjoyed the chat. He's obviously just a bit overly defensive of his guy. But it's fun watching someone somewhat new to dtg try to wrap their head around it lol.

ketracel-white 🧁

I used to listen to/watch Destiny quite a bit back around 2020-2021 and I never liked Dan.. I always tuned out whenever he came on stream to offer his very cool and totally relatable tech-millionaire takes.

Ben Godek

This guy is really struggling to understand that his initial assumptions might have been a little off.

Jason Trock

Dan is annoyingly hard to listen to.

Alex Weschler

Liking Dan is my most contrarian take

Elliot Nial

We got Chris / Destiny henchman crossover before Half-Life 3.

Charlie

I have to agree with Dan. Putting destiny next to hasan seems unfair

Paul Bowman

Dan is not Destiny's co-host. He's his gimp. His only interest in the whole conversation is crying about how unfair the damn graphic is to his lord and master. And he does it with a total lack of self-awareness re humiliation or shame at his own abasement. Topped only by his ignorance of the world outside the poisonous streaming bubble. Who listens to podcasts? People who go to the gym. People who commute to work, drive for a living or have real jobs generally. I had to turn off at his pusillaneous simping for Destiny's psychopathy over the ddos kid. Bleargh

Ben Hodson

Saltman seems like an appropriate name