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Shamanism and the Art of Charismatic Otherness with Manvir Singh (Patreon)

Published:
2025-06-07 05:42:33
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

The Decoders welcome back cognitive anthropologist Manvir Singh for a continued exploration into the social and cognitive dimensions of shamanism. Building upon their earlier conversation, this episode involves further discussion of the psychological mechanisms and cultural patterns that make shamanic practices a recurring feature across human societies. Drawing from Singh's latest book, Shamanism: The Timeless Religion (2025), the discussion addresses how these ancient practices persist and adapt in modern contexts.

Taking our standard meandering conversational journey with Manvir, we traverse topics such as whether Jesus and the Buddha were shamans, the parallels between the Siberian tundra and Silicon Valley, the potential emergence of AI-driven shamans within virtual reality environments, and whether dialogos with Hermes counts as a soul flight.

Something for all the family!

Links

Shamanism: The Timeless Religion by Manvir Singh (2025)

Prof or Hobo website

New Yorker: The President Who Became a Prophet

Our first interview with Manvir

Buckner, William. 2022. "A Deceptive Curing Practice in Hunter–Gatherer Societies" Humans 2, no. 3: 95-103. https://doi.org/10.3390/humans2030007

Comments

Paul Ditta

I was once corrected when I poo pooed alternative medicine as merely placebo. The practitioner said, “Yes mate, but the placebo effect is still an effect.” That comes to mind when thinking about the shaman and sleight of hand. You justify it as essential theatre, because the patient and their inherent belief is an integral part of the process? Is it like the various forms of curses used around the world that actually result in the death of the victim, because the victim wholeheartedly believed they were cursed and would die. They become listless and refuse food. In that way I guess, while the curse doesn’t exist, it is real. In the same way that god might not exist, but god is definitely real if you look at the effect the concept of god has and the real world consequences. Am I making sense or am I burbling like a fucking idiot here?

Paul Ditta

Roland, I do that so often I probably should get a T shirt made. “Warning: I make things more complicated than necessary”

Ymirsdreams

Another one of my random bits of nonsense you might want to skim past: Disease, etc, is also a bit of a moveable feast. While placebo is certainly an important aspect of 'magical' (sympathetic) rituals there is also an element of classifying (for want of a better term) conditions that risk the populous and conditions that just risk the health of the suffer. For example, there was a role of the Pharisee in late antiquity Judea to differentiate between conditions that risked collective infection and those that were didn't (today what we might call leprosy verses sunburn, for example). Jesus never heals anyone, technically, in the Gospels: he 'attends to them' (therapea in the Greek), so it appears that for the most part he examines them and declares them clean. (Hence the Roman Officer saying 'just declare my servant clean and that is enough' -- in this reading, anyway). Note: that is a *reading* of the Gospels, not 'the truth'.

Kyle Wilson

Manvir seems like a solid dude

Linda Sears

I’m looking forward to listening. Shamanism is a fascinating topic as it can illuminate how we look at religions and rituals in general.

Emma

I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one now taking all my petty questions to AI. Yesterday I asked it how to manage the social awkwardness of living in the same apartment complex as an old acquaintance who I can't really be bothered being friends with. But he keeps suggesting coffee and then flaking. AI explained to me we're both stuck in a "polite inertia friendship" and the answer is if he suggests coffee I should agree and then never set a date. It was actually v helpful because these sort of minor awkward social quandaries can really confuse me. But AI has given me the solution and it was v useful.

NiccAF

A guy I know published a paper on “weirdness” and entrepreneurial creativity and success using footage from shark tank. Thought it jived with the conversation on shamanesque qualities of silicon-valley types:

Linda Sears

This is only an anectodal example, so grain of salt and all. My twin sister and I grew up in a somewhat chaotic household (no religion and pretty much left to our own devices). We came up with our own systems of superstitious actions that had to be performed to ward off bad things. Even though we created them, and must have, on some level, realized they were totally irrational, we also felt compelled to do them. I wonder if that is something like what these shamans experience when they knowingly use the sleight of hand to heal yet also will go to be healed by another shaman using similar methods.

Frances goulart

Polite inertia! I l like that! I can connect with that feeling! Useful.

Sam D.

Great content, love this guest and his perspective! Will grab the audio book!

Colin

This was very good! And now Mathew McConaughey. This is strong content.

peta austen

so interesting, just one observation. The efficacy of alternative medicine is very often linked to the individual practitioner, shamanesque??? whereas western medicine efficacy is usually reliant on the science

K V

Astrology is not shamanism. Astrology is a technology that helps people understand ourselves and each other, but only when you know how to use it, and there's so much math and it requires so much synthesis that most astrology-curious ppl never really learn it. Horoscopes are basically useless, and AI Astrology is a disaster. It's not a mystery cult. It just requires a lot of work to use well. And as for using it in prophetic ways to help people feel like they have control of the unknown -- uhhhhh, the current astrological conditions do not support this use case. (In case it's not already obvious, the stars say we are pretty fucked.)

Saladus

I know both Chris and Matt have VR headsets. When are we gonna have a vrchat DTG meetup where we all show up as large breasted anime girls? We need new, creative ways to flex our parasocial relationships!

Nancy Hale

This topic is so fascinating. Manvir is so grounded on a subject that can easily go off into left field. Humans do have their issues dealing with uncertainty! There’s also a theory that conspiracy theories are a strategy people use to cope with disruptive and uncertain times. I can emphasize with our universal need for reassurance and how we look to our own oracles for it.

Martin Pelchat

Great interview! I am looking forward to reading Manvir,s book soon (I am on the waiting list at the library).

Randy

Five minutes in, the difference between the way Manvir speaks (the clarity and coherence) vs the usual gurus is so striking. It's so refreshing. After endless guru bloviation, it's such a welcome reset.

chuckboy

Re: Manvir’s comments about AI inherently having a quality of otherness that can be spiritualized- Rolling Stone magazine has published two articles recently about people using AI as a conduit to god/spiritual enlightenment! Here’s an archive link to one (“People are Losing Loved Ones to AI Fueled Spiritual Fnatasies”): https://archive.is/2t8qx And a regular (paywalled) link to anothe: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ai-chatbot-god-religion-answers-1235347023/

Kelly 🇮🇪 🇦🇺

Would cures fit anywhere in this Chris? Any in your family? Also, I couldn't get Paul stamets out of My head. His story about taking the mushrooms and climbing a tree and the big rainstorm and wanting his stutter to go away ...then it did. Then he said he had a vision about a flood and dead cows. Which he said came true (sounds like jung actually) but ye. He's the shaman of mushrooms now?@