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In this exhausting deep dive, Matt and Chris take a break from counting their billionaire stipends to devote (what some might call) an inordinate amount of time to Gary Stevenson’s recent appearance with a challenging interviewer: Tomás from Despolariza. They grapple with the indeterminacy of Schrödinger’s Gary, who oscillates between being a misunderstood economic and mathematical genius revealing what THEY don’t want you to know on YouTube, and a pragmatic, selfless political activist who oversimplifies complex problems and sacrifices nuance (and himself) in the name of urgent reform.

Despite insisting that he hates fame and has no desire to promote his best-selling book or be on YouTube, Gary takes the time to remind us all of how often he’s recognised on the street and precisely how many millions of views his channel racks up each month. These are depressingly familiar guru tropes, as are his sweeping claims that you can’t trust politicians, economists, academics, journalists, the media, his old colleagues… or even graphs.

Gary’s core message that growing inequality is economically and politically unsustainable is one we fully agree with. His ability to communicate the stakes of that problem to large audiences, especially younger ones, may prove worthwhile. So the criticism from DTG lies not with his stated goals, including campaigning for a new wealth tax, but with the guru-tastic packaging and unwillingness to deal with complexity.

Luckily, there is a solution. Gary. Only he and his YouTube channel can save your grandchildren from abject poverty and Nigel Farage. And if you doubt him, just look at how many millions he made for himself and the bank with his uncanny predictions… or those monthly viewer stats. Oh, and did we mention he has an elite education from LSE?

Links

#89 GARY STEVENSON - Economics, Trading, Inequality, Wealth, Populism, Tax, Depolarize

Zucman, G. (2015). The hidden wealth of nations: The scourge of tax havens. In The hidden wealth of nations. University of Chicago Press.

Francis-Devine, B. (2025). Income inequality in the UK. House of Commons Library.

Francis-Devine, B. (2025). Wealth in Great Britain. House of Commons Library.

Comments

Beel

Garrys bigest issue is he might have the best intentions but he is so painfully smug about it. On the moral grandstanding I think he might be at the top of the guru list.

Níall

Gary has returned somehow

Beel

Imagining the thousand yard stare Gary gives you when you ask if hes got change

Barn

Damien Murtagh

God damn you Chris. 4 hours, 4 fucking hours of debunking Gary's three or four paper thin arguments, and then, only then, you mention the edited version on the main feed. You're an evil man. I never, ever want to hear the words London, school or economics every again... which has screwed me because I'm a teacher. I suppose I need a new career. Seriously, I loved the episode, especially Matt's explaination of how advocates and policy wonks should work together. But please, for the love of god, no more Gary.

Heidi Sævareid

It's so funny to me how he presents LSE as some sort of mythical institution for ONLY the elite in every sense of the word. My sister went there, and while I'm not for a moment suggesting my sister isn't talented or smart, she's also a pretty normal person. And certainly not the daughter of the head of any airforce!

Melinda

Oh damn, I can't paste a photo of the Underpants Gnomes ☹️

Steve Edge

If Gary is so loaded. Why is he really doing this? Just to grow a you tube account? A moral crusade? What do you think his real end game is? Or just to be poplar? Or is it simply to attract power or is this too simplistic? I always feel like an imposter on here due to everyone being so clever. But if someone could help with the questions. Cheers

Rob

Great questions and pushback by that interviewer. He highlighted how Gary is all vibes. You can't even take his premise that wealth inequility is getting much worse seriously as he ain't into graphs or stats. Maybe it is getting worse, we all assume it is, but it doesn't sound like Gary is even willing to demonstrate that basic premise of his spiel.

Roland Weber

Wow, Chris cut almost 10 minutes out for the free-for-all version. 😄

Sam Hall

Thought Matt nailed it in the original Gary decoding when he said “inside Gary are two wolves…”

Charlie

Omg im not sure i can do this

Andreas Singer

This guy definitely suffers from main character syndrome. It is all about him. His origin story reminds a lot of the movie "Kingsman: The Secret Service". I wonder if he watched it too many a time

Dave Home

I’m actually agreeing with Gary here, guys. There is data on this. I wish we had a better spokesperson. But the StLouis fed that tracks this stuff actually has the data.

Dank Sparrow

"Do not tax rich people because they are gods" as a steelman made me laugh so hard I cried a little

George

Superficial point but is it just me or is he affecting a faux-European twinge to his accent?

Ben Godek

The thing that I’m shocked Gary never mentions about the uber wealthy is that they create a political/cultural problem, not merely an economic one. Elon Musk being able to buy Twitter and turn it into a right wing cesspool is the obvious example. He’s certainly less evil than Musk, but Bill Gates has had a tremendous influence on education in America (by giving out his wealth), and not necessarily for the better. There should not be people who are so wealthy that their whims dictate the lives of millions of people.

Kyle Dun

Gary - math whiz not a numbers guy

Helen McCallum

Here's my hot tape. Your dad working for the post office does not make ypu poor, in fact it probably makes you lower middle class. My dad was an addict and I was born in the rough bit of Glasgow. Sadly no elite university for me, but they disowned me for going to Northumbria. I am fed up of this arse pretending he had it tough, he did nuffin special.

Melinda

The issues not discussed were - the percentage of income it now requires to buy a home (low-ish interest rates aside), the increase in CEO salary vs workers, and ineffective corporate tax policy. But what would I know, I come from a middle class background (my dad and brother also built stairs Matt!) and have a mostly unused physiotherapy degree.

Amy S

I have to say, with all of Gary’s annoying and hyperbolic rhetoric (and his absurd BS), I have to give him some credit for his respectful manner in this interview. The interviewer was really hardballing him (rightfully so) but Gary went along with it without angry defensiveness. He took it pretty well. If this interview was with Eric Weinstein, it would have been a whole different vibe. Eric would have ripped that interviewer to shreds. I don’t really like Gary but I’ll give the guy some credit where credit is due.

Flex Tape

You keep saying you wish he’d focus on numbers more, but are you sure you really want him to be Gary the numbers guy?

Jason

All I could think about the whole episode was the thought : if Matt has published mathematical proofs, why has he not shared with us his ” theory of everything“ ? !!!!

Matt Dear

I think Gary genuinely doesn't see himself as self-aggrandising at all. He _IS_ the best, so he's just telling it how it is. Certainly impressive confidence at any rate.

Foggers

Gary will one day be sitting by the phone amazed that it's not ringing

Foggers

Is anyone else sick of being told to LISTEN? we are listening Gary , spit it out.

Frances goulart

I'm no Warren Buffet or Kenneth Galbraith, but I think Gary is more right than wrong. Look what Trump and his fat cats are doing here in the US, destroying the safety nets, robbing from those who have little to give to those who are wealth-obese already.

Damien

Matt talking about Monopoly economics and the wealthy not just buying up house after house made me think of the multitude of fucking eejits here that did just that in early naughties. It was almost unfashionable not to have that buy to let second or third property. Low interest rates and banker bonuses were certainly drivers back then. Many eejits got burned!

Dr Marti McAuley

You’re in to my two fav areas of research (and I have a wee bit of expertise) and all I want to say with regard to the wealth distribution and housing - is it’s a bit more complicated than that!

Frances goulart

Oo, I didn't like that last bit! Gary donates NO time, NO money to the less wealthy that he is so concerned that the wealthy are ripping off???? WTF?? He loses a lot of credibility right here!

Frances goulart

Information is apparently more important than money, according to Gary!! I'm gonna try paying my rent with some engaging facts . Where's my encyclopedia Brittanica!

Linda Sears

I just finished this episode. Who was the time traveler at the end?

Brian Gough

Listen … Wasn’t the UK stock market manned by ‘barrow boys’ like Gary during the 80s?

Amy S

Isn’t “donating your time” and making money from it called “working”?

Amy S

Matt, I really liked your case against populism. It was well worded and intelligently thought out!

Yuri Delgado

Mates you gotta pick one - or you say you agree with his points of view and agree that inequality is bad and you are only criticizing his rhetoric; OR you are gonna say that the housing crisis is being overblown and it’s only an issue here in London or Porto. Tbh this is a bad look on you and trust me, from someone working in finance in London in 2025, things are indeed only gonna get worse. Now please let’s be adults here, don’t paint me as a hater or as a Gary Lover when you get upset with my comment.

Liz Tily

I have no idea what I just listened to. Am I that dumb?

brownie

Matt!! 30 yra ago you could pay 20000 down and 300 a month for 30 yrs. Now you need 250,000 down and pay 2000 a month. Wages haven't increased proportionately. Come on. Mate

Alex H

Gary has the grandiosity of Nassim Taleb, and the slipperiness of JBP. And being a Forex trader doesn't make him an economist. He's such a Walter Mitty for calling himself one. 😱😱😱

Alex H

And there *are* people doing what he does. Kyla Scanlan on Youtube and with her book "In This Economy?". There's the authors of the UK 'Foundations' and 'Housing Theory Of Everything' pamphlets. There's the London charity Priced Out who advocate hard for housing reform.

alice

This ep was a real stand out. Robust good faith criticism at it's finest

Da Jay SwIzzle

didnt hear my name at the end with the shout outs but it's ok - i get why - i didnt fully DESERVE it. It's fine. I'll be ok. Whatever.

Lucy

Late to the party but I really like this interviewer. My Portuguese is at the level of pastel de nata so I am glad to see he puts out English episodes sometimes.

Trees

🧚‍♂️ Listen!

Kelly 🇮🇪 🇦🇺

This was so funny. I listened backwards (the first ep after this one) but holy shit...he's insufferable 😐

Charlie

Gary is insufferable. Im honestly surprised hes so popular given how blatantly self aggrandizing he is.

Thewizrad

Does anyone else feel that his accent is inauthentic and performative? I keep hearing it slip in and out of focus... It irks me.