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Content

We return for Part 2 of our Scott Galloway deep dive, where the vibes remain strong, the confidence unwavering, and the relationship with empirical evidence increasingly… decorative.

Returning to our Modern Wisdom safari, we continue navigating the forbidden terrain of men, masculinity, and male suffering: a topic so dangerous that it requires constant ritual disclaimers, whispered caveats, and the occasional nervous glance around the bar to make sure we can take out the other men if necessary.

We cover Scott's outline of his masculine Third Way: rejecting both the Right’s “Bring Back the Fifties” masculinity and the Left’s “Men Are the Problem” framework, in favour of a solution that might be described as Stern Dad Who’s Also Nice About It. Prepare to thrill at proposals of mandatory national service, kindness as a masculine superpower, and the radical idea that young people might benefit from not being economically crushed.

Things get spicier when we’re told what women really want and learn about the adaptive skill check of the female orgasm. Chris Williamson unveils a prepared essay on What Men Want which proves to be a moving piece of therapeutic slam poetry that somehow manages to combine manosphere grievance mongering with woke therapy talk. We learn how what men really just want to be told is “you are enough" and should be kind for kindness sake, but also should optimise their friend group such that they can properly signal their high mate quality and train hard enough to take out all other males in the bar.

Finally, we hit peak Decoding Mode as Scott’s statistics begin to escalate: boys are ten times more likely to kill themselves, father absence turns sons into inmates, daughters into promiscuous approval-seekers, and nearly every claim is delivered with total confidence and minimal concern for effect sizes, confounds, or whether the study actually exists. Decorative scholarship is in full bloom.

We do our best as two hyper masciline men to separate reasonable concerns about boys, mentorship, and social policy from hyperbolic factoids, pop-psych inflation, and the familiar habit of smuggling moral arguments in under the banner of “what the science says.”

Bring your hunting knife and stoic daily diary. Take your testosterone injection. And get ready for some man talk!

Links

Modern Wisdom: The War On Men Isn’t Helping Anyone - Scott Galloway

The Diary of a CEO: Scott Galloway: We’re Raising The Most Unhappy Generation In History! Hard Work Doesn't Build Wealth

Academic papers Referenced

Culpin, I., Heuvelman, H., Rai, D., Pearson, R. M., Joinson, C., Heron, J., … Kwong, A. S. F. (2022). Father absence and trajectories of offspring mental health across adolescence and young adulthood: Findings from a UK-birth cohort. Journal of Affective Disorders, 314, 150–159.

Dekker, M. C., Ferdinand, R. F., van Lang, N. D. J., Bongers, I. L., van der Ende, J., & Verhulst, F. C. (2007). Developmental trajectories of depressive symptoms from early childhood to late adolescence: Gender differences and adult outcome. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 48(7), 657–666.

Angelakis, I., Austin, J. L., & Gooding, P. (2020). Association of childhood maltreatment with suicide behaviors among young people: a systematic review and meta-analysis. JAMA network open, 3(8), e2012563-e2012563.

Zhang, L., Wang, P., Liu, L., Wu, X., & Wang, W. (2026). Different roles of child abuse and neglect on emerging adult's nonsuicidal self-injury and suicidal ideation: sex difference through emotion regulation. Current Psychology, 45(1), 56.

Callanan, V. J., & Davis, M. S. (2012). Gender differences in suicide methods. Social psychiatry and psychiatric epidemiology, 47(6), 857-869.

Raposa, E. B., Rhodes, J., Stams, G. J. J. M., Card, N., Burton, S., Schwartz, S., … Hussain, S. (2019). The effects of youth mentoring programs: A meta-analysis of outcome studies. Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 48(3), 423–443. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10964-019-00982-8

Lloyd, E. A. (2005). The case of the female orgasm: Bias in the science of evolution. Harvard University Press.

King, R. (2024). Naturally Selective: Evolution, Orgasm, and Female Choice. CRC Press. (The researcher Chris Williamson is relying on)

The Scottish Sun. (2025, February 17). Nearly six pubs closed each week last year with 4,500 jobs lost amid rising costs [News article]. The Scottish Sun. Retrieved from https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/money/14352624/uk-pubs-closed-last-year/

Greater London Authority. (2025, February). London’s Night-Time Economy: Economy, Culture and Skills Committee report. Greater London Authority. Retrieved from

Comments

Chris Clark

This is a fair point and I feel abit bad for dialling up the SG mockery now. He seems well intentioned and so does CW tbf. But I can’t help feeling CW presents as an unrealistic slightly cartoonish role model. Most people can’t be podcast celebrities, aren’t blessed with model good looks, lack the confidence (or needy narcissism) to become celebrity podcast hosts. I can’t help but feel he offers a bromide. It might feel good to nod along for a while but in the end messy non black and white reality gets in the way. It’s interesting what you say though-as the success of these guys is perhaps an indicator of how the popularity of the role model in parasocial form points to much larger structural problems. Chicken/egg situation. Genuinely I can’t tell if on average this abundance of online self help is in some way responsible for creating the problems it confidently prescribes solutions for.

Jen

As I wait for my dough to rise I can listen to this masculine marathon. Hallelujah!!

Barn

Lord Brannigan-7

Whilst we're talking about parallel parking disquiet being some odd symptom of, well, I'm not exactly sure what, I once saw a fascinating photo that was barely an aside in a medical textbook. A hospital had a dual use car park. Until 9am it was reserved staff night shift parking. After 9am it was post MI (heart attack) rehab clinic reserved parking. They showed both photos, now to win all expenses tickets to GuruCon '26, guess which picture showed everyone obsessively reverse parked?

George

Chris Williamson saying "big naturals, no bra" 🤦🤦🤦. Jesus fucking Christ. Get off the internet for one minute. That whole section is mind-numbingly stupid. These people perpetuate these black and white narratives about society based off some Instagram Reel they've seen. They bang on about critical thinking and yet seem to have absolutely no capacity to view things through more than one lens. Excruciating listen.

Yoko Swagman

To be masculine you need to be economically viable. Don’t you need to be economically viable to just exist in society? Like masculine or not we all need to pay bills.

Bernt

Anytime I talk about decoding the gurus I refer to chris and matt as big brother. It's not weird. In fact, it's weird that I have to say it's not weird

Bernt

I feel like there's a lot of irony in the conversation between Scott and Chris w. The continually demonstrate how disconnected they're are from men in real life and that their view of men is primarily shaped by online discourse. Like most men aren't even going to work in real life, they work remotely and can't demonstrate their excellence to others becuase of it. They clearly live in a bubble. But their presentation is that they're real men who will guide you out this hyper online life that is sucking the life out of men. They sound way more online and disconnected than 99.9% people I interact with daily. It makes me wonder how much of this is a bit projection. Of them not actually living up to the model of masculinity they provide as a model for others

Bernt

Matt's right

Bernt

I think they're very much misrepresenting the no dating at work. Anecdotally, I worked for a very progressive non profit at the height of me too and many young progressives their were still dating eachother or just hooking up. I met my now fiance there. Maybe it was different in more corporate settings. My understanding of the pushback against hitting on people in the workplace was power dynamics. Not having the supervisor always hitting on his employees, or what have ya. But in the manosphere movement that got twisted into progressives say coworkers can't date eachother period. Is anyone saying that?

Bernt

Was the point of chris w's rant about female orgasms to bring up another example of the unfair obstacles that men face in dating? That was weird a tangent

Linda Sears

Anecdotally, my just turned 15 year-old niece has a mixed male/female friend group. She does a gaming group with other kids at the library in the Boston area; it’s basically the geeky kids.

Linda Sears

I find the only one male is necessary for twenty females argument to be perplexing. Most women don’t want to be part of a harem. If they are interested in pairing up, they want their own man to get attention from/pay attention to, especially if they are having children with the man. I think the one man with a bunch of women is a male fantasy rather than an evolutionary reality. Does anyone else think this presentation is an odd one?

Joanna Mulvaney

enough men leave their washing in the machine until it stinks or don’t wipe their arses that smell is a factor. as Chabuddy says “the nose is the first thing you penetrate” also they spend so much time moaning about how bad things are for men, like the gendered murder rate, bullying etc,-why are they whining about women when it’s men doing it to each other? 🤪 “wahwah women are opressing me with their preference for attractive people who don’t stink and treat them like humans”

George

This has further confirmed that Chris Williamson has the worldview of a 17 year old. He's got it all worked out but seemingly no actuall experience of real life and real people. Far too influenced by everything he reads online and, this might be a reach, but the unflinching way he says 'big naturals', as laughable as it is, suggests to me he's a little too familiar with the codification of internet porn. This guy is 37 years old.

Paul Ditta

I was a cop for 30 years. I can say with absolute certainty that my percentage confidence about getting the middle of two people in a confrontation was 0.0%. I just had to do it anyway because that was my job. I’ll give him that when the firefighters used to park up near the entertainment districts there would be a continual stream of pleasantly tipsy ladies having a harmless flirt with them. But that’s the water fairies for you. 🤣 I like Scott G. But I think the boys are bang on the money that he’s got a bad case of Conflatitis. That and a possible co morbidity of CherryPickington Syndrome.

moshawk

Picking up a big tittied dolled up no bra bimbo in the park is the fantasy of a boomer Mad Men office worker whose marriage is failing because hes neither masculine nor feminine. What are the divorce rates of prior generations? Even this pickup narrative was pervasive in the past what's the data to show it was actually effective at cultivating a lifelong partnership? I feel like the shift to promote marginalized groups and genders has touched such a nerve with specifically white men who are so insecure about their masculinity that they need a participation trophy to stop their crying. My masculinity is secure enough that i feel like we should promote hitherto marginalized groups and not have to insert caveats or asterisk for me (a white dude) in order to boost my esteem. Im fine. I benefit still from the ambient effects of patriarchy worldwide. Which brings to my next point. Wtf is this with men are being marginalized? Women is Saudi recently started driving. No men here are feeling emasculated or marginalized, probably because all women still have to have guardians, are segregated, etc and it was a mere ripple in an ocean of dominance that doesnt seem like it'll be transforming substantially too soon. The vast majority of the nonwestern world is SO dominated by men that these narratives are dead on arrival. Matt and Chris are absolutely correct, these fucking occident incels are trapped in doom loops in infinity pools with content designed to outrage their insecure sensibilities. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Frank Lantz

Matt is on fire this episode. Stellar.

Chris Clark

V on point! Like yea he’s such a deep, well read nice smelling tough guy but he fails to say anything interesting about these conferences except “Big people there. Big money. Me like.”

Foggers

Was Australia ahead of the curve in the 80/90s with the snag( sensitive new age guy) thing? Was it just us? The women, in my bubble at least,said " yeah nah, we want masculine men" and nobody told them not to. Nothing happened to them. For CW , if your having a hard time navigating the female orgasm, try asking her what's working and what isn't. I know it's radical and might offend your masculine sensitivity, but give it a go champ. I'll leave you with a quote from an Australian modern day phylosipher, Jim Jeffery's " get up tomorrow and try your best not to be a c$#t" From a sensitive new age bricklayer

Christopher Grant

Just for clarity: Scott says 40% of nightclubs and pubs “in London”.

James P.

Chris you should do research streams. Like when you're checking the literature on the stats these guys throw around.

Linda Sears

The last section about the conversations with women and laughing were made much more bearable by Matt and Chris’s incredulous responses. If you only get into conversations with other people to get something out of them or are laughing to be seen as likable, you are missing out on the richness of life.

Jenny

I don't know about protecting, procreating and all that nonsense for what a "real man" is, but for me Alex Pretti is it. He was protesting for a good cause, he was a helper (ICU nurse, on the scene to film and then was coming to a woman's aid) and he was brave. In short, a decent human being who literally put his life on the line. Those manosphere cosplayers sitting in the safety of their studios behind their podcast microphones can STFU now please

Elissa

Chris W : “…here’s a list of things only men can do with their kids … » Me : literally everything I did when raising my children ( probably still do ) Chris W : basically reveals he can’t make a woman orgasm reliably Matt and Chris : let’s not analyse that , leaving that there lol I had a good time in the episode. Appreciate my shout out ( i usually don’t listen to the end … what a nice surprise !) and glad the bread still occupies a fond place in your memories. Keep the lovely manosphere apex content coming!

SHOUNAK SARKAR

Good decoding guys. Williamson is an insufferable twit, kinda like a much milder version of Andrew Tate & Jordan Peterson. Don’t understand how the guy is single given how rich, famous and good looking he is; unless he is only trying to date Onlyfans models/ supermodels / Instagram influencers or something. Do you guys know? Galloway on the other hand is NOT my cup of tea, but as far as gurus go, he’s certainly one of the way better ones. His discussions on technology trends & tech bros with Kara Swisher are quite good. And his podcasts on wealth inequality are pretty fun to listen to as well!

Eric Ireland

Still getting through this but really enjoying it so far. I feel that their advice maybe useful to a particular kind of man, but there are other viable strategies for finding a mate, based on cultural and environmental conditions. For example, I was able to demonstrate my excellence and find a wife via the size and impressiveness of my record collection! This method was successful despite having spindly arms and working in a call centre. You just have to find the right woman in an internet chat room and tell her you have an original copy of the Field Mice's first single on Sarah records, or something like that. I should go into business and find these lost and lonely men and teach them the way for $$$.

Paul Ditta

From this I have confirmed that Chris Williamson has never seen Titanic…or he’s got a serious man crush on Billy Zane…

Ben Godek

Oh there are definitely guys who need to hear “stop texting when she ignores you twice.”

Heidi Sævareid

The idea that "being in touch with your feelings" means crying in your car instead of finding the way is so ridiculous. Wouldn't road rage then also mean that you're in touch with your feelings? Speaking of irrational emotional outbursts, or the lack of them: My husband is a psychotherapist and VERY in touch with his feelings + attuned to mine and others'. He's also an expert on Stoicism (and resents how popular Stoicism is among podcast bros!!!!!!), but it's not ideas of "mind fortresses" that makes him calm, balanced and self-assured. No, it's his emotional literacy. And I've seen him step in to deescalate aggressive/violent situations, not with the threat of his fists (he would certainly lose!), but with the qualities I mentioned.

Chris Clark

They’re basically using the stereotype of the incel with a total absence of insight or self awareness. James Bloodworth speaks very clearly on this. These guys do not. It offends me greatly-the subtext of what they do is present a strawman of the typical (in their minds) failing male, thus reinforcing this v unhelpful stereotype with little coherent structural analysis to hold it up. (See terrible factoid statistics/evo psych sophistry). It succeeds in its misandry as well as its misogyny. Invert all of SG’s idealisations of the perfect man and you get a sense that he’s surrounded by men who 1) have no ability to demonstrate excellence in anything 2) are cruel 3) smell really really bad 4) dress poorly 5) have no interests or hobbies whatsoever 6) can’t read 7) are asexual. 8) (incoherently) too woke. It comes off like they’re talking about memes not people.

Dean

Isn't the most dangerous man in the room always the short Irish guy?

Matt Dear

The secret to the female orgasm; sensitivity, dominance, and thrusting skill. Interesting analysis. I wonder how large the sample base was.

Oblio

Chris C: sorry to say you're wrong on the pick up artist thing. Chris W is right. Approach anxiety was a much stronger motivator for the majority of men that read about or participated in pick up artist culture. I know about this because I found out about it from a guy I worked with on a construction crew. He was a sweet guy but really shy and stressed out and he was fascinated by "The Game" book. It sounded really fishy to me, but he insisted I read it. And it was literally written by someone who had approach anxiety, and who wanted to overcome it, and who met all kinds of other people in the process, some of whom we're toxic, but most of whom we're actually just shy young men. Probably mostly on the autism spectrum to some degree or another. And as someone who works with youth, I've met plenty of young guys who were hopeful they could learn something that would help them get a girlfriend my practising this or that method... Of course a lot of that subculture was gross and toxic and flamboyant in its "look at me, I'm such a pick up gangster" stylings. But that's no different than any other movement trying to sell people get rich quick schemes or personal growth workshops or how to get into med school tutorial programs. If we followed your logic, we'd have to say everyone who goes for those things it's a raging maniacal capitalist, a self absorbed psychological escape artist, or a pathologically ambitious careerist freak. It's just a category error to take the conspicuous outliers and assume they represent the entire group. And you guys appear to be forgetting or perhaps never realized cause you're just lucky that this kind of anxiety about approaching women is a dominant preoccupation of a significant proportion of young men... it may sound hyperbolic and ridiculous and worthy of ridicule to you guys. But I gotta say you kind of sound like a couple of douche bags picking on people you think are losers...

Oblio

Male capacity for violence: it's colloquial hyperbole. Scott is not an idiot. He's not implying that everyone needs to be John Wick. To discourage an attack, a dog doesn't need to be the biggest dog. It just needs to signal that it's not a complete pushover. This isn't rocket science. It's animal behaviour 101. You don't need to be able to win a fight to discourage a fight. You just need to be able to convince the other person that even if their going to win, they're gonna get hurt in the process. And the answer is yes: I HAVE had to do this a dozen times in my life. Just go walk around at night in Glasgow... it is absolutely not something that only comes up and fantasies stories and movies. And I guess because I've been through it a number of times, I'm not really impressed with your suggestion that the thing to do is just run away and that's the smart move. Sometimes people need help, and it's good to be able to provide it and not just abandon them.

Mike Nelson

This episode took me multiple listening sessions to get though. I hope to never hear those two dudes ever again. TL;DR: Take a shower, wash your clothes, brush your teeth, wipe you ass, read a book now and then, don't be a jerk.

Trees

On the 10x relative suicide rate Scott quotes, if you take the 1.8x relative risk from the study Chris cites, and multiply it times the difference in completion rate for American 15-24 year olds (4.5x), you get a relative risk of suicide of 8.1. if you calculate the completion rate difference from Wikipedia, it's 5.1, which yields 9.6x. So I don't think it's actually hyperbolic. Yes, it still relies on that study being accurate and an assumption that abuse doesn't cause an increase in ineffective attempts. Completely agree it's activist statistics. The interesting thing is baseline gender difference is doing a lot of work here. You could just as accurately say "a 15 year old boy and a 15 year old girl both listen to an episode of Modern Wisdom. The boy is 4x more likely to kill himself in the next year."

DJM

Guys- your comic book knowledge. Tisk tisk. Batman doesn’t get poison ivy. She tries to kill him.

oli.d

I feel less masculine every episode I cry in the car waiting for my shout out that never comes.... Man left behind after buying Chris.K a coffee everymonth for over a year. The tiktok non negotiable bar set so high I live in an online fear of cancellation if I question the ceo men of DTG

Randy

I'm looking forward to Chris Williamson's full heel turn. When his skeletons escape the closet, will he become a Christian? Run for office as a reactionary racist? Turn his podcast into Infowars? He's putting out all the signals of the type of guy who used to email Jeffrey Epstein a lot.

Ryan Goss

Hey now, I'll have you know several women have been impressed by my collection of painted Warhammer miniatures.

Melinda

My anecdata of my 16 year old daughter's friend group is it is mixed (also Queensland).

Melinda

I am so on board with Matt's view on this whole masculinity/femininity thing. I mean, what even is it? Just be yourself, mate, it will be alright. Unless you're an asshole, don't be an asshole.

Beel

Chris Williamson speaks with such grand authority on topics for someone whose claim to fame was on a dating show , it is exhausting honestly.

Jen

This guy bugs me but he is getting folks to boycott tech companies helping Trump. Nice!