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Chad and Lori's love story: More reflections (Patreon)

Published:
2021-10-10 08:40:47
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2026-06
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Content

After reading Chad's Love Story written for and to Lori Vallow, we read all of your wonderful comments. We wanted to discuss the ideas of arrested development and flawed masculinity. Lauren also reads more of Chad's writings--an excerpt from his book: One Foot in the grave. 

Comments

Boxcar Willie Nelson Mandela Effect

I know this is a two year old post but I can't resist the urge to say Chad Daybell is what happens when an 80s goth kid scifi nerd goes rogue lol Source: I used to be one of those kinds of kids, and also went on to be hyperreligious in my very own ways, much like Chad Daybell. Here's hoping he gets some self-awareness in prison at some point. You guys deserve some kind of award or something for tolerating this brilliant epic love story for two entire episodes.

tora Johns

At what point do you think Chad chose to start this manipulation with Lori, do you think this was an old fantasy and this was his opportunity or did it evolve as he went along.. do you think he meant it to grow as much as it did (with Zulema, Melanie G, Melani P)? How do you think Chad was feeling as it grew and more people believed his 'teachings'.. if they hadn't been caught, how do you think it would have grown, where would he be now?

Lauren Rencher

Please do an episode on post traumatic growth! I would love to know more.

Tamara Wakeman Sukohl

The two of you are amazing. I laugh and learn at the same time. I want to know what Dr John thought when he first heard Chad say the he felt like Harry Potter living under the stairs. I feel so bad for Tammy in all of this. Instead of having a partner she basically had a big kid on her hands. I can only imagine that when Chad was selling his 359 books at the conference with Lori at his side, Chad felt like he met his soulmate. This is the tale of Chad’s midlife crisis and his choices destroyed so many lives. It’s so sad. Keep the dinners coming! I enjoy the professional analysis done in humor. That is something few YouTube channels provide. Bravo!

Dardenne Creek

Do you feel that the Chad and Lori Love Story boils down this entire case, as a means to an end, for the two of them to a attain their lustful fantasy, or is it much bigger? Do you believe Chad truly believed he and his goddess partner, Lori were destined to gather the 144,000 and save the world, at all costs? It seems like Chad fed Lori this load of bull to get into her pants! Lori was already delusional and accepted his narrative, hook line and sinker.

Jennifer Priebe

Thanks for this great analysis. I look forward to your analysis of Lori and Tylee's police interiews. An aspect I wanted to comment on was another odd sign of abuse I have wondered about, and that is Tylee's weight. And I do not mean to say that her weight should be something to feel shame about, however, within the women in the Cox family, and Lori in particular, thinness was very highly valued to the degree of creating eating disorders-and likely shame for Tylee. Lori's dancing for hours for instance could be part of this-showing how much fitness is a super big priority, yet not providing Tylee her own activities or healthy nutrition so Tylee can never succeed in her mother's eyes. Also, it keeps Lori in the spotlight by eliminating her competition so to speak. I also wonder If Lori would say mean things to her, or in front of her, about her weight? Lori even discusses in the interview how she had Tylee test out of school since it was wasting her time-which was a way to rob Tylee of other opportunities to succeed.

Helen

Thank you both for sharing your space with us. 😊❤️

CuriousinColorado

Your discussions are extremely interesting and informative. I definitely feel you are contributing to my open mindedness - thank you for that gift. It also does not escape me how “spot on” Dr John Is in his initial thoughts… clearly NJ puts out a good product (Princeton). When I listened to this discussion the whole nature vs. nurture debate came to mind. I know you have discussed this before, but what in “nature” besides a low IQ might predispose this arrested development? I guess this interests me because I have twin daughters who came out with the same predispositions at birth they have now as teens (one more impulsive/outgoing, the other more contemplative/introverted). I have also observed as a parent that there are a group of kids who do well despite their situation in life, a group who do poorly no matter their situation and a large group who are highly affected by their family, parents and environment. Is that an accurate observation? You had mentioned you may do an episode on this and I just wanted to put it out there. Update: it occurred to me to listen to the first podcasts of Hidden:A True Crime Podcast in light of this new information. I think I found my answer, in part, to this question in episode 3… the OCEAN principal. A great discussion on nature vs nurture and the overlap. I still am curious about the other part of my question (kids who thrive no matter what, kids who fail to thrive no matter what and those that are largely influenced by their family/life situation)

Krystaline Faithe

I look forward to hearing you guys discuss Tylee more.

Emily Lou

The Tylee video made me so sad. Poor girl. My daughter is about the same age. It just broke my heart in two watching her obvious discomfort and anxiety. No wonder she is so often described as standoffish and unpleasant. I would also have been if I lived her life. I’m just so sorry she didn’t get the support and care she needed and deserved.

Emily Lou

Also - that love story. Holy moly. That was gross! 13 year old boy in a middle aged man’s body. I appreciated the reading, though! Much better than reading it for myself. My thought after being married for 29.5 years. If you equate great love with constant passion, you are missing out on the best parts of a partnership! I love the comfort, inside jokes, trust, and all the good and bad shared history. Wouldn’t toss any of that over for a “few weeks of good sex in Hawaii” to quote a wise person.

Tessa Madsen

I have noticed from the beginning that Chad “uses the Spirit of revelations” to justify his behavior in all things. For example, “he finally got a yes.” At first I just thought he used that as a way to control every scenario. But upon more reflection I think it’s so crippling for Chad to think that he is completely incapable of making a decision on his own. Dr John, do you think he used these “revelations” as a control mechanism or do you think he seriously could not recognize his own thoughts as his own? It’s completely bazar to me that he thinks all thoughts coming into his heard are “revelations.” It’s starting to feel like he is schizophrenic and believes his thoughts are voices from God.

RobynB
>>69517440

I think that’s a really good point, Jennifer. We will likely never know all the psychological abuses that sweet girl endured but the little we do know ie hating Tylee’s father, Tylee’s protecting of JJ, Lori abandoning JJ for a month and dragging her to Hawaii. Tylee disliking Charles was likely encouraged by Lori, comments about Charles boys exhibiting inappropriate behavior towards Tylee when she was young and Lori doing nothing to protect her female child, it just goes on and on. Tylee’s one constant was Lori and as a teen you have to know she was a confident for her mother and like most children, craving acceptance. And what did that psychopath do? And for what? Power, money and a man. Wow…Tylee was worth 10,000 Lori’. 😞

Roberta S Treacy

There is so much aversion to responsibility with this pair. If every decision comes from an external source, then one is never at fault.

Roberta S Treacy

Mid life crises hits everyone fortunate enough to make it to mid life. This response to that crises is so awful that it boggles the minds of folks outside of this cult. What is stunning is that so many involved couldn’t see the problem until the bodies were exhumed/discovered. “Thou shalt not murder” (Lo Tirtzach) is the sixth commandment. What in the LDS liturgy gives folks the notion that number six can be ignored? Also, does LDS liturgy really refer to other planets? Seems rather progressive for a religion with its roots in the early nineteenth century. These are serious questions. I don’t know much about the LDS faith, and I do not mock people’s religious beliefs. I try to understand them. I do have more than one problem with cults though. I know that the Scientologists have notions about other planets, but L. Ron Hubbard was a mid twentieth century man. I know that Lauren has mentioned that Preparing a People has rebranded itself. I guess that means that the door may be open to other Chad like folks to thrive. Has this group repudiated Chad? Or are they keeping silent until the trial is over?

Mi Vida

I do appreciate your candor in this platform. I enjoyed the reading of the love story and the giggles. Love the crickets in the background on this podcast! But I especially like that you came back with your additional thoughts after reading the comments. Thanks guys!

Erica A. Zwick
>>69539424

Hubbard reportedly said, "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion," at a meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association in November 1948.

Gail Clark

There was something in Tyler's body language that really disturbed me. It was like she had closed herself off from her emotions to protect herself from all the craziness brought into her life. She has already seemed to have the worries of the world on her shoulders. Yes, I believe she knew instinctively that she was in trouble. I hope that JJ was oblivious...

Tamara Wakeman Sukohl

With all the new information coming out I wonder if Dr. John has an opinion regarding Lori’s competency at the time of the murders.

Hidden True Crime
>>69523616

I loved this, because nature vs nurture is something John and I discuss a lot. My dad is a twin, and while fraternal, he could not be more different than his sister. I think discussing post traumatic growth could be another good way to discuss some of your thoughts. Thanks for sharing Patrice!

Hidden True Crime
>>69527467

Well said. She is a child of trauma and I felt heartbroken watching her too. She was singing and trying not to cry. I wish so much she could have found support.

Emily Lou

There are so many stories of people using personal revelations from God to justify horrific crimes - so many in just the last few years. Do these people (Matthew Taylor Coleman, the Daybells, Bryan Riley and on and on.) Do these people actually believe this or do they use it as an excuse? Some of them seem like true believers to me, which is frightening.

RobynB

The cause of death was just released. Strangulation. Sad but not surprised. 😞 RIP #GabbyPetito

Amber Ferdig
>>69517440

Watching Tylee's interview, I kept seeing a child with so much trauma and her weight I think could be a manifestation of that trauma. When you have trauma, that can create a state of constant stress, which causes inflammation, which causes the body to gain weight and not be able to lose it.

Amber Ferdig
>>69539424

The ten commandments are a very critical foundation of LDS theology, and it is reenforced in the Book of Mormon-Alma 39, that murder and sexual sin (adultery), are some of the greatest sins that can be committed. If you have heard reference to "Mormons don't swear" this is because LDS take the commandment of not using the Lord's name in vain as literal. LDS theology refers to other planets in the sense that God created the universe (the phrase from the Pearl of Great Price( a cannon work) is "worlds without number". Now the multiple probations, or living on different planets, that Chad refers to is not LDS doctrine, and goes against the core LDS belief of the Plan of Salvation. I have no clue what Preparing a People is going to do/are doing, but I hoped those heretics are stopped.

Sylvia See

To be honest I was surprised to hear that 50-ish year old Chad has so much “energy”. To hear him talk he sounds as energetic as a 17 year old guy. Maybe he got himself some viagra to keep up with Lori. Probably, like everything about Chad, his words were hollow and meaningless and the “loin-fire” has been long gone from his life. The love-story was written to Lori to convince her otherwise.

Gena

I don’t know if it relevant, but one part of the “story” that sticks out to me is when he is sitting rather far from Lori. He’s staring at her, and she starts covering herself. Then she says something like “what are you doing?”. He doesn’t say if she likes it or if it makes her mad, or if she thinks it’s creepy he’s staring at her. I took this as he basically gave her an orgasm just by staring at her. He’s really trying to boost his prowess by saying he doesn’t even have to touch her to send her into a frenzy!

Gena

Oh! And why no comments on him voicing some random woman’s blue muppet???? 😂😂😂

Nutmegtella

This is so well done, thank you! I teach First Grade. In education we have a big social emotional piece now of education that's teaching the kids to have an "growth mindset". If you have a closed (fixed) mindset, the world is small and you can't learn change and grow. I'm teaching my 6 year olds to have a growth mindset every day. Amazing a grown adult has such a closed mindset.

Darcy Johnson

@Nutmegtella…as a grandmother of 3, you don’t know how happy my heart is knowing that our young are being taught to have a “growth mind”. Is that a starting point to begin teaching critical thinking skills? I have been doing emotional coaching with my 5 yr old grandson and I have taught his parents to do it too. If only every child could get this care…Dr. John would be out of a job.

Kristina Westbrook

The arrested development piece. Isn’t long term drug use starting young also the cause of arrested development too? Not related to this case but for some people?

Prince Charmings Mom 2930

I’m not a big commenter, I think at one time on a live someone called themselves a “lurker”. I laughed because that’s totally me. I wanted to tell you how happy I am that I joined your Patreon group. Never have I gotten more out of any Podcaster/YouTube creator. So many smart people, such a joy to listen to.

Hidden True Crime
>>74101938

Thanks Lisa for this kind comment- it means so much to us. We always try to focus on producing quality work that appeals to a very astute audience- so thank you for being a part of our amazing and smart Patreon community. We value all of our listeners so much. John