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Call For Questions For The PS5 Pro Reveal Direct Special (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-10 15:10:01
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
Q&A

Content

I'm actually writing this post at 13:35 - just under 2.5 hours until the reveal of PS5 Pro. Assuming it is the reveal of PS5 Pro. Regardless, Mark Cerny has emerged, he has things to say and this post has been strategically timed to go public after he has said these things.

There's every chance that those things will necessitate a DF Direct Special and in turn, you may have questions to put to the team. Rich, John and Alex will be 'on point' as they say for this one - so it's weapons free on your questions. There's a tight window on this one - we expect to start filming at 17:15 BST.

The stage is yours.

Files

Comments

omega tom hanks

£700? Absolutely DOA and I can't be the only one who think so. Proposition of eliminating choice between graphics and fidelity seemed too weak to justify this price point. I feel they may have been better off showing off a new title that eplicitly took advantage of the hardware. Anyway, can this really survive at this price point? It feels like flying far too close to the PC shaped sun

John Crowley

Fellas, Cerny unfortunately didn't touch on the details of PSSR much but do you expect it to be as much of a game changer as DLSS?

Peter Karadimas

How difficult do you imagine PSSR implementation will be for developers. Is it as easy as an unreal engine plugin, or will it take working with Sony in order to fully implement.

beer chugger 209

$700 is high price. I need more information from Sony. Because I bought the PS4 Pro day one and it was only $400. Also the picture look like a lack of disc drive. I have disc games so what do I do? Mostly just single player games but I’m guessing I would have to buy that disc drive. Or just stop purchasing disc games and go all digital.

Gordon Lin

Hehehe. vert stand sold separately. I'm absolutely waiting until the DF team dissects this in Nov before I consider buying it. Last week's direct (or 2 wks ago?) the discussion on whether this generation is underpowered I think was spot on. Considering games like Stellar Blade and even Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, they look phenomenal and at high refresh rates. I think the current generation really really favors bespoke engines, but the current market really really do not--and hence Unreal Engine 5. UE5 handles a lot of the tech to make things look *more* but the engine inefficiencies are horrid. As to the price, I think it's honestly OK. If the PS5Pro can actually get games like Black Myth at better frame rates AND resolution (or Dragon's Dogma 2, for that matter), that's not a bad jump up from the base price to achieve it. Granted, a good gaming laptop can definitely do similar to what the PS5Pro can do, it'll require a $1200 price point to achieve it ($1000, but boy you gotta know how to finesse settings). Yes, it's starting to approach PC levels of pricing, but man--R&D isn't free. Also, it'd be worthwhile to check out the price of consoles after inflation. NES was $199 in 1985... $500+ in today's money. (yes, and I'm posting from 'Murica) Question for DF team... wanna take pot shot guesses as to how the frame rates will improve on your most wish-listed Pro-revised games? Were the BMWuKong settings actually meant for the Pro version in actual?

Kitty Raven

I’m in, but it had better we worth the extra £200.

Vasyl Baran

700 USD is a mid-range PC territory and with most if not all "exclusives" eventually coming to PC - is the PlayStation console still worth it? P.S. the look is still not great, too gamerish =(

Allan Lindqvist

I wonder if the ray tracing improvements include some sort of ray reconstruction, their performance goals seem really high otherwise.. and digital only? That's harsh

Kitty Raven

When are the pre-orders going live? Do we have a date for that?

Selwyn Nypels

Hi guys! Just finished watching thr stream and I am left feeling...underwhelmed? 800 euro for a machine that simply removes the choice between perf/fidelity. I was hoping for more! How about you?

Leftisthominid

For a platform-agnostic gamer (with a PC with an RTX 3080), do you think this upgrade is worth it? How do you think the new GPU compares to RTX 3080/4070-tier tech?

Leftisthominid

Will Alex be gaming on the PS5 Pro for his own personal entertainment? (i.e., not just for work)

Philipp Weixlbaumer

With the new info / specs, what's your prediction when a PS6 will land? And what will PS5 Pro do for PSVR2 ? Love these Direct Specials 🙌

Leftisthominid

Was Rich's suggestion to order an external disc drive prescient?

Jonny_5a

I know Sony have used the Pro branding before but does it really make sense? Don’t really see how a bit more power makes these games machines more suited suited for the office

Wez OOSH! (WOOSH)

Hello Gents. I'm curious, am I the only one that thinks that this console is going to make the Xbox ecosystem look worse? Any Xbox game that is being released on the PlayStation ecosystem will obviously have to adher to the PS5 pro console too, meaning that they will be directly shooting themselves in the foot releasing a Xbox first party game on a console that immediately shows that Xbox isn't the best place to play Xbox games, as well as ensuring that devs are overburdened with another console to port for. I honestly don't think that having "Xbox is best played on the PS5 pro" a reality is good for business and consumers. Enjoy the content!

Kenneth Bergan

Why tout their intention of eliminating the choice between fidelity and performance and then show Hogwarts legacy running at 30fps with ray-tracing? Why, Mark Cerny?

CodeMalfunction

Dear DF team, given the high price and lack of a disk drive and even a vertical stand, did Sony price themselves out of the market with the PS5 Professional? Previous consoles at such high price points have not sold well and the presentation didn’t do a great job of selling the concept of the console. It sounded like all it can do is run fidelity modes at 60FPS.

Selwyn Nypels

Also, am I alone in thinking the way the comparisons were presented was very confusing?

Bigmanupstairs

Hi everyone, the presentation came across as quite rushed and lacking in detail. Do you think Sony might be testing the waters to gauge initial reactions to the new console before deciding how much information to disclose to boost sales? It seems like they’re being cautious to avoid impacting sales of the base model.

Joseph Caruso

I'm not surprised that the video did not mention FSR and its limitations, but I think it's a good sign that they showed footage of Alan Wake 2 and from what I can tell it looked significantly better visually. What do you think of the examples Sony decided to show during the presentation?

Kenneth Alexander

Dear DF Team, Please be honest, did you miss Arrogant Sony?

DudleyTheGentleman

The marketing angle for the PS5 Pro seems interesting. Personally, I think it's probably the best they can do without completely alienating existing PS5 owners. "The PS5 Pro gives the Fidelity mode advancements that developers want, with the performance mode smoothness and precision that players want." What does DF think about this marketing angle? Do you think it's convincing for consumers, or are they only talking to the people who were already going to buy the console? A separate question, how do you think the PS5 Pro will effect VR titles? Will Sony's lack of PSVR2 support make investment in VR software improvements virtually non-existent? Final questions, will the revelation that nearly 75% of PS5 players choose to play in performance mode have an impact on the eventual PS6 hardware design? I know truly bespoke designs are likely a thing of the past, but I'm curious if a more PS2 like architecture that emphasizes 60fps games could become a thing again?

Arathir

800€ without disk drive and without a vertical stand (sold separately). Do we know how much extra will the drive and stand cost?

Jason Wittlin-Cohen

Sony announced the price for the PS5 Pro as $699 but did not specify if that included the disk drive. Any thoughts on whether this is the price with or without the 4K Blu-Ray drive?

J3llyS4ndw1ch

Salutations and greetings DF, for $800 most PC users could get a pretty nice 40 series GPU, would even someone with a modest ZEN 3 or 10th gen intel see a better visual return compared to a PS5 Professional?

Timothy Spink

Hey DF! What’s worth more of an upgrade, PS5 to Pro or an LCD monitor to OLED monitor? I’ve been using an OLED for my PS5 recently and the difference to the games in just the display alone is amazing, which feels more of an upgrade.

captain crunch

I was prepared for 599, but 799..wow. scalpers have their collective heads in their hands right now.

10 Bespoke’s In a Trench Coat

They just announced in a blog post that the disc drive and stand are sold separately. So nearly $800 for a disc unit

captain crunch

How much are they currently selling for?

Pixelbrei

Is there any indication of ray tracing in the Alan Wake 2 gameplay snippets?

Greg Brown

How many months until digital foundry gives up and just says “pisser” instead of spelling out PSSR?

Jay Adama

With the price likely being too high for casual gamers, and the presentation lacking any real details for the 'pro' crowd to get excited about, the big question remains - who on earth are they making this for?

CodeMalfunction

Dear DF team, the PS5 Professional blog post on the PlayStation blog lists “Enhanced Image Quality for PS4 games” to increase the resolution of “select” PS4 games. What do you think the impact of this will be and how widespread should we expect support for it to be? Will it be only titles Sony puts in work to support, like with the Xbox’ backward compatibility?

Justwannaplaygames

The PS5 Pro Digital Edition is priced insanely high with only past games as reason showcased for purchase. Do you'll think the rumored 'State Of Play' at the end of the month is meant to focus on launch games for the PS5 pro and might provide some incentive to buy? Do you'll still believe Sony can make a case to spend this much over a console as the case currently made is far from convincing for me?

Andrew Lam

Why not do a livestream? So people can ask questions in real time.

Perfect_Organism

£700 without a disc drive. Thats a bit of a PSSR, right?

OldPuck

I think Cerny nailed it. Framing the leap as "the end of graphics modes" was smart, and I thought seeing the games at 60 beside their choppy 30fps counterparts was surprisingly compelling. Obviously, PSSR is central to those higher framerates. I'm curious about your opinions about it as a technology. Considering the limited GPU bump (45%) relative to the frame rate bump (double), is it possible that PS5 Pro games will run at _lower_ internal resolution than the base PS5 versions? Does PSSR have a future outside of PS5 Pro? Will it come to PC, like checkerboarding did, or is it locked onto Sony's custom hardware - and if it is locked, is the PS6 locked into the PS5 Pro's AI solution for back compat? And finally, considering the range of quality of these upscaling solutions, do you have an approach to reviewing PSSR as a technology, or are you going to evaluate the games on their own merits.

Bespoke To Soon

Howdo Dig-Fo! As expected, there was no visible benefit to the PS5 Programmer Edition as YouTube isn't up to the task, no new games to exite the glands, and a very high price point (especially factoring in a disc drive). Will this 'bad three' make the console seem utterly pointless to not just the common gamer, but also the intended market of enthusiasts? I'm in the later but I'm really not feeling it based on what we know so far.

Ryan Luker

Not specific to the PS5 pro but I found the stat of around 75% of players preferring performance mode over fidelity was quite interesting. Normally I would have thought graphics preference would win out but maybe players are not seeing the value in graphics over frames?

pngnat

Given the $699 price tag of the PS5 Pro, is it reasonable for potential buyers to just go for a pc instead? Sure, you might have to shell out a bit more than $699 to get a pc with similar specs, but it's already a full-fledged pc. Consoles have always served as great-value gaming options for consumers, but I feel like the $699 price tag this time defeats this very purpose. Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

Owen Beeks

Does PlayStation need Jim Ryan back in charge already? Maybe he could save us from the price... Not a good look

Joe Doyle

What is a reasonable expectation to PSSR? Is it going to be the biggest upgrade of the Big 3 in the PS5 Pro?

Perfect_Organism

Given theres a marketing push from Cerny for 60fps in games with the Pro, isn't it a bit of a shame to get such a small CPU bump?

S1kkZ

920€ with a disc drive. 950€ if you also buy the vertical stand. barely any concrete infos for the game "upgrades" aside from some vague "higher res, more detail, sharper upscaling". sony must be out of their minds.

Leator

I was ready to get one for 600-700 EUR, but 800, without a DiscDrive is a stretch… But talking about optimisations… Is this like an „automatic“ improvement situation or is it up to devs to push performance updates?

Gabriel Ralls

With the focus on 60fps for the 5 Pro, aren't developers just going to lean into 30fps with even higher fidelity like they did on the PS5? Or do we expect Sony will push a mandate for a minimum level of performance this time round (If I remember correctly they insisted PS4 Pro titles had to be at least 1080p)?

someone

"VRR and 8K gaming are also supported" (stressing the 8K), quoting from the PS blog, thoughts? XD

samred

Hi friends of DF! I'd love to hear your take on how quiet Cerny was about the CPU in PS5 Pro--as if he skipped that level in Astro Bot PS5 edition. How much doom and gloom should we expect from that part of PS5 Pro upgrade being apparently stagnant compared to the GPU?

someone

"Enhanced Image Quality for PS4 games is also available to improve the resolution on select PS4 games", do you think they are simply referring to dynamic res titles, or something more interesting?

10 Bespoke’s In a Trench Coat

Hey DF team! Concerning the fact that the Pro model does not come with a disc drive and needs the disc drive to connect to their servers before activation, it really concerns me for the future of game preservation. This is the first time, at least in my recent memory, that a flagship model of a console does not include or have a method of physical media playback out of the box. Do you think they are fully preparing for going all digital with the PS6 at this rate? A curmudgeon I may be, but I still would rather own my media in some form. Are my fears misplaced? Hope you all have a great week! Cheers. 🍻

Abadaba-Pling Boink Wee Juhu

Gran Turismo 7 will get an 8K mode, according to a CNET PS5 Pro Hands-On interview. Is that as stupid as it sounds?

Macky Dee

The (frankly) absolutely mental price is obviously the immediate talking point, as that’s a whole lot of money for a mid gen bump. It’s for most enthusiastic of enthusiasts, the wealthy and very few others. But given the lack of price cuts this gen anyway, are we looking at big price hikes for the genuine next gen of consoles? Maybe not 800 quid, but certainly 600 plus seems on the cards…

Taggen86

Why do we see such a large price gap between EU and US this time? It is 799 euros here which is exactly twice what I paid for my ps4 pro back in the day (399 euros)!

DaJaCo (Dan)

So it turns out I was right all along - (my comment last week) "PROFESSIONALS INSTALL THEIR OWN DISK DRIVES" !! We saw this coming, and yet it still feels somehow excessive - especially the combined price for Disk + Pro. Have any other professional team members begun stockpiling disk drives?

sj33 (Jake)

Hi all, Xbox don’t make many correct decisions but can agree they were correct to not make their own Pro console, right?

CookieButter

The announcement had a focus on not choosing between performance or fidelity modes. Do you think Sony will _encourage_ developers to have a single PS5 Pro mode to fulfill this vision? Or are we destined to see even prettier 30fps games?

Engin Cetin

Are 1.046,33$ justified in germany?

DaJaCo (Dan)

I'm curious about the 2TB internal storage too - is that likely to be soldered with an additional empty upgrade slot, or is there only a slot?

CookieButter

Sony claim a 45% increase in graphical power compared to PS5, with a major improvement of ray tracing and upscaling too. Which PC GPU do you believe will most closely match the new PS5 Pro GPU?

Julio Garcia

Hi DF, long-time listener, first-time question asker here! As a future PS5 Pro owner eagerly awaiting the chance to build the ultimate Gran Turismo 7 racing rig, I'm curious about PSVR 2's potential with the new console. Will there be any inherent improvements to PSVR 2 performance or visuals simply by connecting it to a PS5 Pro, even without specific game patches? And looking ahead, could the Pro's extra horsepower make Gran Turismo 7 in VR an even more impressive experience, perhaps even tempting Sony to keep PSVR 2 around a little longer? By the way, keep up the good work! I always eagerly await the next weekly Direct.

DaJaCo (Dan)

Remember that tech enthusiasts are in a self selecting bubble like the one we are speaking in now. It should seem low to us.

Stephen Heim

SEVEN HUNDRED!!!??? I feel Sony needs to clearly explain the narrative for who this is made for. We were expecting $600 or maybe $650 but that's a hard sell at $700. Is it worth it? Yes but im a filth 4090 owner so what do I know? but this would only be worth it for players that are playing newer or compatible PS5P games that can use that added fidelity and higher frame rate on their 120hz display. For gamers playing old titles. They probably wont get much added benefit unless there are modes to force it for non-compatible games. A lot of the player base doesn't understand nor care about the inter-workings of cost for newer tech and to develop for it. They just see the price. Like how a majority of Gen9 Xbox owners went with the cheaper Series S over Series X but are getting a vastly inferior gaming experience over the Series X for a smaller price difference. Most uneducated gamers I speak too dont care about Ray tracing because they havent seen the light yet so RT is not a selling point for them. I dont feel the average PS5 owner would be willing to upgrade to the PS5P for an additional $200 dollars, with no drive (Stand sold separately), for a slightly better experience but I could be wrong. I feel the PS5P is basically Sony's 4080/4090 tier and we know player base that is a minority of a minority but you are getting the best gaming experience in my opinion when going with that setup. Do you guys think this will sell? I dont think so simply because it's priced too high and most players might not get the benefit or see the use that the future holds. Gamers need this Pro model for the upcoming UE5 apocalypse because my 4090 rig is already showing how brutal UE5 is going to be and it hasn't even stretched it legs yet in my opinion. Is it DOA? I think they need to promote who this is for by showing off upcoming heavy UE5 titles or GTA6 running extremely better on the PS5P over the PS5 instead of current games that people have already played and probably dont care about getting a more frames. Sorry about the long post but this is a somewhat complex issue.

StefanSt

Is it too expensive?

MrBurns

So I guess Sony looked at PS5 selling for 700€+ for over two years on eBay and figured they could make that official? I have been on record for expecting a high price, but 799€ WITHOUT a disc drive wasn’t even on my card. But… Is that just the market reality? I‘m actually inclined to think they will find an audience for it, given the first two years of PS5.

Eric Benoit

This generation of Sony feels like the PS3 generation more and more, but at least the PS3 had cheaper revisions. When you buy a new phone in the States you don't get a new charger anymore. If you're going to spend $700-900 dollars on this, couldn't they at least included the vertical stand? This nickel and diming is not a good look.

Materia-listic

I've just priced a ryzen 5600 + 7800xt +1tb gen4 nvme machine with decent quality parts for £800 and it will outperform the PS5 pro by a decent margin, especially in cpu limited scenarios. Have we reached the point where it just makes more sense to play PlayStation games on PC, especially with Linux coming closer to the console feel for a TV usable interface.

someone

Does the smaller than PS5 original size suggest a smaller transistor node? and could that justify in part the price?

Ray Gillespie

Have we reached the point where the diminishing returns on each new generation have made upgrades almost pointless now? Sure, we’ll need a new generation one day, but it feels like the gap needs to be huge in order to be worth the upgrade.

Jonathan Thomassen

Do you think games that are not specifically enhanced for the PS5 Pro console will receive tangible benefits? Here I'm specifically thinking of games that have a 60 fps target, but often don't hit it. Case in point: Elden Ring. Will the raw power boost of the pro model be enough to brute force its way to a stable 60 fps?

Ray Gillespie

Didn’t Xbox One have this problem, only worse, as you can’t do anything with the console until you activate it?

Johan

€800 without a disc drive, a stand or some actually new first-party titles to really show off the extra power under the hood? This is a really bad first impression from where I'm standing.

Snorlax cat

I think that 700 is fair, the disk drive issue is not nice, but it is a niche model less percentage than ps4 for sure, in fact this gen will be less successful overall, but with rising costs and the cerny's law death (Moore? lol), it is fair, and furthermore I think scalpers will not take the model with this price nearly as much as the launch unit.

someone

Good news: "Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth in particular popped compared to the fuzzier graphics on the existing PS5 version. Everything was sharper, and still 60fps smooth. It felt like putting new glasses on."

Hobobench

Hello DF ballers, what would you have liked to see different from the PS5 pro reveal? Personally thought it was weak since the games they showed already ran really well on the base model. Would it not have been better to show off games like Dragon's Dogma 2 which is also getting enhancements, that also does not run well on the base model? Love to hear your thoughts, thanks!

Rhalgr

Where do I get a 3rd job? Should we be worried about next gen consoles prices?

TRACEY GRIMSHAW'S DART RETURNS

Looks like Sony have found an opportunity to put the Decoy effect to great... effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoy_effect). Set a price to protect your margins - if it sells well, great! If it doesn't, it'll have still achieved the objective of boosting PS5's perceived affordability. Perfectly timed with price increases around the globe! Well played Sony!

VictrixCausa

How do you think the new ray tracing oomph in PS5 pro compares to Xbox Series X (which seemed to have more RT processing than PS5 amateur, at least on paper). Will RT improvements made for PS5 pro have any impact on RT implementations on Series X, or does the paper advantage just not hold up in the real world?

Someguyperson

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the price of the PS5 Pro is completely justified. If you are in the minority of players who really care about the Quality mode benefits (apparently only 25% of players use Quality Mode on PS5), then you can find some value here, but for the vast majority of people out there, the PS5 Pro isn't worth the upgrade. I think the price is justified by trying to effectively double the performance of a $400 console. Of course it will cost nearly twice as much if you're getting nearly twice the performance (GPU wise at least).

carrotsauce

What’s stopping people from getting a 4070 super (which is $100 cheaper) or a used 3080ti which is probably cheaper and just spend 300 to 400 more dollars to build a PC that’s considerably more powerful than a 700usd console? It’s pretty expensive.

ConcreteLlama

How do you feel about the way Mark Cerny framed the story of the Proseph? In previous directs you had said it would be difficult to sell the PS5 Pro in a way that doesn't discredit the PS5 but I think the way he framed the decision between performance and fidelity was quite a good way to handle it. That being said.. can the PS5 Pro really deliver much of an improvement and remove that decision in CPU bound scenarios? Does the improved ray tracing do some fancy magic to reduce the CPU burden of RT?

Pallaringa Martínez

If Sony wants to end (ot at least ease) the difference between Performance and Graphics, why does Alan Wake II and Hogwarts Legacy were showcased at both 30fps and 60fps? With the lack of a CPU upgrade, how hard is this showcase going to bit Sony in their booty when (eventually) a "PS5 Professional" mode can only run a game at 30fps? Things like this make it seem as if Sony can't find a way to justify the PS5 Professional existence for any mortal who hasn't binge watched all of Digital Foundry videos!

bizzytrax

What are the expected fps uplifts in rocket league

Real Frame Collector

Any thoughts on 'Boost Mode' and backwards compatible PS4 titles? Will this make a Bloodborne 60fps possibility (or even a stable 30 fps)? (Answer is probably no I'm guessing)

Jack Allard

Hello gentlemen of DF, so the PS5 Professional is pretty much what we were expecting (and in the case of a £/$ 700 price tag without a disc drive, fearing). What I found interesting is that a significant portion of the video was hyping up the regular PS5, presumably to not totally dunk on the PS5 in the subsequent comparison. My question is, what are your thoughts on how they balanced this? Did they do enough to encourage users to upgrade to the PS5 Pro (which judging by the YT comments, they did not)? Most of the games shown presented only resolution or graphical detail improvements which is unappealing to the general user. Would it not have been better to address less polished games or would this reflect too harshly on the OG PS5? Also, I appreciate this is for the enthusiast consumer at this price point, in which case why is there no disc drive?! Also, no mention of CPU upgrades is a bit concerning considering the increasing number of titles where this is a problem. Lastly, surely the system isn’t so expensive to make that they couldn’t include a cheap plastic stand and avoid an Apple-like PR nightmare (ie pricey wheels or monitor stand)? Anyway, love the work lads! Cheers, Jack!

StooMonster

Hi DF team, long time lurker, first time question asker. What do you speculate will be PS5 Pro boost to games that are already performing at peak on PS5? 120fps instead of 60fps? Would Astro Bot be resolution enhanced or boosted to 120fps? Does a choice mean that performance mode won't go away, but will be different instead?

StooMonster

I'm curious about this too, does this mean Performance vs Quality/Fidelity modes are replaced with one option — or does PS5 Pro mean there's now going to be two different perf vs fide modes?

Thomas the Jank Engine

Hi hello yes! How do you think they will determine which titles will benefit from the new model? With PC games, you will always get a boost when you bring in better and more powerful hardware... but I'm curious if the Playstation platform will allow the same benefits for something like Alan Wake 2 on the PS5.

Nolasco

Evening Awesome DF Crew...... what can I say, with the presentation and price target of the new PS5 pro with no stand or disc drive do you thinks it's worth the price tag? Obviously it's a niche machine to say the least but do you think it's gonna be a very hard sale? Thank you for your time and hard work, now I am off to my third job so I can buy this new machine.

James Prendergast

So, scalping of PS5 Disc Drive attachments in 5, 4, 3...

Treefinngers

So if It's an AMD APU why increase the GPU size by 67% but no CPU core/frequency change? Is this a totally Custom chip for PS5 Pro? Does this extend the life of PS5 longer than Xbox Series X/S?

Pol Kallamata

I hear all these people out here saying that the PS5 Pro is expensive at $700. But Chad Warden wipes his ass with $700? Are all these people broke or is the PS5 Pro pushing the limits of what's acceptable for console pricing?

Paul McGowan

Sooo expensive without a disc drive or a stand, with those 2 things included your probably looking at £800..plus nothing new shown as a hook

Will

Would appreciate your thoughts on potential impact for psvr2 e.g. are we likely to see 60fps reprojection games updated to 90fps?

VeryProfessionalDodo

I have the strange sensation that this is going to be similar to a Portal situation, in which a lot of people are outraged at something they don't have to buy, and the people who are interested are probably going to be happy. I think this is part of the reason why Mark Cerny emphasised in the beginning by saying, and I quote, "the PS5 is still pretty great, yo"

Paul McGowan

Sorry one more question. Is sony going to repeat the mistake they did with the ps3 launch. Also didn't sony say these things before the ps5 launch (think it had 4k and 8k on the box)

Abandoned Walnut

I was initially thinking of buying the ps5 pro but increasingly feel that there's little justification what with already having a standard ps5 plus a well specced pc. Not convinced today's presentation sold it to me! Then again there is gta6 to ponder.....

Perfect_Organism

Definitely has me thinking about the Portal too. The Portal made me feel like an old man wondering why young people around me are having fun. Maybe I just don't know anything anymore, idk.

3rdboi

Do you think there will be a back track on the price similar to the ps3 or do you think they will keep it this highly priced as a “premium alternative”. honestly i was expecting to be about £650 with a disc drive included, but at this price perhaps people would rather move to PC as steam big picture mode can offer a somewhat console like experience with better options to emulate retro games

StooMonster

Mark Cerny mentioned that in Horizon Forbidden West that extra power is "allowing for improvements to lighting and visual effects. As well as to the hair and skin in cinematics." Do you think that PS5 Pro enhancements will be ported to PC versions too? (Where applicable.)

TheMightyEthan

$700?! Without a disc drive?! What are they smoking and where can I get some?

VeryProfessionalDodo

I think it's okay to not be interested in some things, it's just the amount of energy being spent discussing something that's totally optional that gets me. No one HAS to buy this, but they might be interested, and that's okay! There are some aspects that might be a bit more controversial (the stand is my most annoying one), but I feel like 90% of the discourse surrounding this has been overwhelmingly negative for something so optional. It's like review-bombing a game because you dislike the price of the optional cosmetic DLCs

Peter

Will Mark Cerny + plus the power of the new PS Professional = the most advanced version of Marble Madness ever?

MittenFacedLass

Honestly feel like we don't know enough/anything new to really ask new questions. They basically just confirmed leaks but didn't show much. :(

Gordon Lin

The PC version already has higher level effects than what's in the PS5 base. the PS5 Pro makes the higher settings possible on console. Really, it's more like the higher settings on the PC version can now be applied to the PS5 version.

Kellan Sandifer

Can Microsoft Auto SR be implemented in the series consoles to effectively give them the “ps5 pro “ upgrade?

StooMonster

In this specific instance perhaps, as this was the example to hand, but I wondered if any "PS5 Pro additional enhancements" per se might be added to PC versions. 😀 (If they don't already exist there, hence my "where applicable" comment.)

VeryProfessionalDodo

I agree. There's just so much critical information that we don't know, that it's a bit early to really say anything substantial. How many games will receive a PS5 Pro patch? What's PS5 Pro Game Boost, and how does it affect PS4 games? Can it handle path tracing? So many questions, and I feel like a torrent of news cycles are going to be generated from just 9 minutes of presentation (a third of them dedicated to the base PS5) and a blog post, creating a lot of regurgitated articles

StooMonster

Is it confirmed that the PS5 Blu-ray Drive attachment works with PS5 Pro as well as the PS5 Slim model?

VeryProfessionalDodo

Still waiting on Valve to deliver a good console experience targeting desktop hardware :(

KillerFugu

Am I the only person on earth who thinks the pricing is okay? Like I went straight to PCPartPicker and a RTX 4070 PC with a Ryzen 3600, 16GB DDR4 and 2TB SSD costs about £825, vs the £800 of PS5 pro with a disc drive. I think it's comparable system, in a world where Sony doesn't want to take the production cost on the nose for a niche system (fps/image quality focus for people who specifically don't want a PC)

VeryProfessionalDodo

The console and PC markets can co-exist to a large degree. I have a vastly superior PC to the PS5, but the entire UX on console is just nicer to me. Until Valve opens up Steam OS and / or releases a more powerful console, the PS5 and Series X will continue to be better choices for the living room And this is coming from someone who really wants living room PC gaming to be a thing

VeryProfessionalDodo

This was the game I was the most looking forward to see, and it did look great, even through Youtube compression

Alan

Are you at all surprised by the Pro price? and digital only! Before Xmas 2026 the PS6 will have been announced for release in 2027.

VeryProfessionalDodo

I'm going to against the current and say that the lack of a disc drive is a brilliant move by Sony. They don't know how well this unit will sell, so introducing two niche SKUs might be a logistical nightmare, similar to how they planned the production of the digital vs physical base PS5s. This will streamline their production pipeline, while also allowing the user to add a optic drive later if they choose. It might not be great for the consumer, but the synergy between PS5 Slim and PS5 Pro was really well designed.

3rdboi

Would love to see it, even a version of steam OS that can run on a wide range of PC hardware similar to bazzite

Xfiles_Frohikee

I know you definitely would like to have seen effort on the CPU side but could this be the best value, right now, in overall experience? When you think about shader and traversal stutter being more common on PC and HDR being not the best experience on windows 11, this feels like the best overall experience for the money.

Michael

Do you think we'll get a full HDMI 2.1 spec port this time for better features instead of it being capped? Maybe things like Dolby Vision gaming possible?

Thomas Briggs

At double the PS4 Pro's introductory price has Sony misread the room? £800 with the drive, £825 all in (stand sold separately), this is new territory for mainstream consoles.

LittleMac

Thing to remember is PS5 pro is a luxury console for high-end gamers. Nobody needs one, just get the base console.

Lil Gohan

OLED no questions asked

Lil Gohan

There have been many comparisons to PC due to the pricing of PS5 Pro. While I think $700/€800 for the digital edition (literally double the existing cost) is egregious, it’s hard to build an equivalent and compelling PC for the same price. I took to pcpartpicker, targeted $810 (Pro + Disc Drive + Vertical Stand), and found it surprisingly difficult to spec something better without used parts. What targets should someone set when trying to match or beat the PS5 Pro with a PC?

Julián Oroza

The blog reads “Enhanced Image Quality for PS4 games is also available to improve the resolution on select PS4 games.” What does this even mean? Injecting PSSR into old games? Forcing the game to run at a higher resolution? Or just a straight patch? Thanks!

Julián Oroza

Do you think Alan Wake 2 will get an RT patch?

Levander Davis

To me, the most interesting tidbit from this presentation is that 3/4 of PS5 users chose Performance Mode over Quality. I figured most users would have stuck with whichever is the default. Since DF plays so many games, what is the “default” setting for most games: quality or performance?

Lil Gohan

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/24ZY4M Here is my current attempt. It seems 7600, 3060 12GB and 4060 are the highest possible GPUs I can fit into it without regressing to a non X3D CPU. Does anyone have better builds or suggestions? I find it to be interesting from an academic perspective.

Julián Oroza

I fear that a $700, premium console without a disc drive (from Sony no less) tells us really bad things about the future of physical media.

lil' ecto-1

Howdy! Keeping in mind the future of 9th generation releases can less optimized upscalers and their low-res native targets (looking at you base 720p FSR) be removed from console titles like Jedi Survivor, FFXVI, etc? If not I suspect ninth generations console games will forever have a dark cloud hanging over them as they will be associated with low native res upscaling blur, fizzle, and smear despite the power of future consoles being able to render them in higher resolutions.

Perfect_Organism

Mostly agreed for sure - I guess it's interesting to see how they're marketing it/pricing it though. But yeah, the technicals feel like they've already be discussed a lot..

Auro

What does the development path look like to upgrade from FSR2 to PSSR? In a world without PS5 Pro specific updates, how big of an upgrade is the PS5 Pro? As a PC Gamer I hope we see some great updates in the future that can push our hardware harder! In my opinion systems like this encourage developers to push games further.

10 Bespoke’s In a Trench Coat

It did, and still does even on the Series consoles. Neither are right, and I guess that feeds my fears a bit more. I’m more baffled about the premium price for a flagship with no disc drive at all, pushing more towards the digital-only future.

alexrdavies

What do you think the PS5 Pro means for the likely length of this generation? The PS4 kept going for years after the PS5's release, and now we have the Pro as well, could the PS5 keep going to the end of the decade? What year do you think it will be before a console can exceed the Pro's performance at a mainstream price point? Does this neuter an early next-gen Microsoft launch?

alexrdavies

Does DF have access to a better-than-YouTube download of the Cerny presentation?

Abandoned Walnut

Plus in this case I think you can legitimately compare the cost of a a second hand pc to a brand new ps5 pro given it'll take time for a second hand pro market to emerge. You could get a very decent pc second hand for this price!

Daniel M

Do you think Sony's decision to release an expensive pro console has been undercut by them releasing their games on PC? The upgraded PS5 games were less impactful given that we've already seen them looking like that on PC. The demographic this machine is aimed at, people willing to pay a premium for better graphics but don't want a PC, just seems so small as to not be worth it.

Auro

"The dreams of the developers are bigger than what can be supported at 60 frames per second" Overall I like the idea behind increasing the standard for fidelity mode to 60 frames per second but what about the developers who's dreams are faster than 60 frames per second? Surely there is a demand for a performance mode toggle that can target 120 frames per second in titles where it makes sense!

Rich

The ps5 and ps5 pro CPU is NOT the equivalent of a high end X3D AMD cpu, more like a Ryzen 3600 Zen 2. There are many cheap CPUs from Intel or AMD that beat the CPU in the ps5 pro, I don't think $800 is hard to match at all in terms of PC building, especially if one considers used parts. My friend recently bought an $800 laptop that could give the ps5 (at least) a run for its money in RT, indeed the 4060 Laptop GPU is among the top most poplar GPUs.

Sloth

Why does Europe get such poor value compared to the US when it comes to pricing of hardware like the PS5 Pro? We should be getting things cheaper to make amends for all those years of poorly-optimised 50hz games.

Auro

It sounds like PSSR needs to be updated on a per game basis but on PC we have seen mods for games like Starfield that can bridge the gap between the FSR2 inputs and DLSS or XeSS. Do you think we will see a system wide setting for injecting PSSR even if it is compromised compared to PSSR delivered via game update? I feel like there would be a large incentive for this kind of upgrade because no matter what every game will not be updated and ML based upscaling goes a long way compared to FSR2.

tod weitzel

seven hundred american dollars?!

Real Frame Collector

I suspect the answer will be borne out by what developers choose to do with it. I don't think the benefit will really be shown on PS5 exclusives as they run pretty well at 60 fps at 1440p thereabouts. I think the test cases will be those pushing next Gen features for high end PCs like Alan Wake 2 and Avatar. The mixture of SSR and FSR2 on Alan Wake 2 really too the shine off on PS5 with constant fizzling, it seems like PS5 pro should easily address these issues and perhaps with an added performance boost.

Mr Bespoke

I think Sony have shot them selves in the foot with that price tag. No Disc drive, No vertical stand as standard and no pack in title to boot. Is there some price plan to help us with the cost or are we going to have wait another 3-4 years for a significant drop in sales? Which by then the PS6 would have arrived with another big price tag.

Alarm

The £1 = $1 'tech tax' makes an unwelcome return. A roughly equivalent price to the US price of £549.99 would have been much better.

Rich

According to a recent interview on CNET, while PSSR will not work with PSVR2 at launch, Sony is saying it will receive a firmware update that will work with ALL PSVR2 titles!

Rich

Console upgrades you mean, right? Many PC Gamers are upgrading all the time, 1 in 5 PC Gamers bought the new rtx40 GPUs alone over the past 2 years. I actually think the opposite, the gap between the high end PC is growing over time, not shrinking. The visual difference between path traced Cyberpunk and the previous gen is actually bigger than that previous gen was over its predecessors, for example.

WillpowerSmith

Only amateurs upscale from 720p. A professional targets 900p. Your PS4 games have never looked this sharp. Pre order now for a mere €800, only double the price of basically the same thing 4 years ago (*disc drive, vertical stand and common sense sold separately).

Rich

According to an interview on CNET, Sony will eventually enable PSSR for all PSVR2 games through a firmware update.

Rich

RX 7700xt. Similar teraflop count, I think. Roughly equivalent to a 3060ti/2080ti in RT, hopefully.

The Polyester Pimp

Sheesh, more like Professionally foolish to announce that price, am I right fellas? Might be late for this but do you think the hdmi bandwidth will be upgraded on the ps5 pro or will 8k tv havers be sipping those graphics through an ocular pipette?

Rich

I think it has to do with all the HDMI2.0 TVs from the previous generation that only support 120hz in 1080p mode, and dont have VRR. They didn't specify 4K 120hz, I think almost any HDMI2.1 TV supports VRR, but market adoption of HDMI2.1 TVs is still way smaller than HDMI2.0 in the average living room.

Rich

The exact logic you're applying to the Xbox vis a vis the PS5 Pro also applies to the PS5 Pro vis a vis the PC...

Beach Taco

Decent performance without the troubleshooting and whatnot that often creeps in on console. Pro doesn’t seem bad for someone that wants the best visuals they can get.

Simplex

I'm surprised pisser will work in all games. What about games that already use FSR to upscale from 720p base resolution. Will pisser be applied instead, or on top?

wildwildwesty

Ahoy hoy! Who is the target market for the Professional? I can’t help but wonder who is buying this device at this price point. If you already have a base PS5 then the performance lift is hardly worth the investment, or, if you have money to spend you would surely be better off with a PC, don’t you agree?

Wez OOSH! (WOOSH)

Yeah that is true, however it's much more than that, PC isn't a console, it's an open platform, whereas the SX and PS5 pro are consoles, it doesn't look good in my opinion to have your main flagship 1st party titles running even better on the competitions Premium console.

Jack Craig

I completely agree the video did not impress me whatsoever. the price tag is laughable. we dont need this cycle of mid console refreshes.

Jack Craig

Why do graphics mode exists? the only thing I could think about was if the PS5 Pro exists to end graphics mods then why not push developers to ship games with one graphic mode to. begin with

3rdboi

Was just thinking what the entry price of a future “PS6” may be if the msrp of a ps5 pro is going to be £699

KiMoSaBi

What's with the Apple-fication of the PRO moniker where it means you are getting less for more money? I would be less upset if the PS5 PRO included the disc drive, but now you have to pay extra for something that should be included. Do you think this sets a bad precident like how the iPhone took away the headphone jack and memory expansion?

Daniel M

Keep in mind that in the US you have to add sales tax (which can be as high as 10% in some states/locales) whereas in Europe, VAT is included in the MSRP.

Treefinngers

Does the $700 price point move the viability needle vs. equivalent PC kit? The new "equivalent," GPU is RX 6800 which can be had with the 8 core Ryzen 7 5700X for $519 USD (cheaper used )you'd likey land a bit over $700.. but not by much.

Lil Gohan

Indeed, and I didn’t mean to suggest the PS5 is like an X3D (though I understand it came across as such), but rather to suggest that someone building today should look toward an X3D even in cases of last gen CPU/Mobo combinations, especially with how CPU limited todays offerings are. I find it hard to argue that someone should buy a 3600 in today’s age, you know? And I agree, with used parts it’s definitely much easier to spec out to any given price point. Do you have a pcpartpicker list you would give someone who asked “what PC should I build for $810 instead of buying a PS5 Pro?”

Critically Wild

To some degree this is a 'rod for their own back' scenario. Everything shown that it improves is because of this obsession with 60fps that they haven't really discouraged or put in context for gamers at any point. They set expectations for people to be getting $2,500 of performance from a console that costs so much less. It's understandable people want 60fps, but also you can get a PS5 or XSX for quite a bit less than a mid-range GPU (in Australia at least). I think the PS5 and XSX perform incredibly for their price points when the fidelity and framerates are matched to the platforms. I'd also add the majority of YouTube users don't have access to 4K or enhanced 1080p, and when I gave the normal bitrate a go you could barely see the differences in the comparisons... must be a lot of less tech-focused gamers squinting like it's Magic Eye.

alpha54

As someone who doesn't currently own a PS5 but is too spoiled by a high-end PC to go back to playing at 30 fps for good graphics, I was actually really looking forward to picking this up (mostly for Sony's own exclusives, and tbf the next GTA as I can't wait a year for that to come to PC). This presentation so thoroughly convinced me not to waste my money however. Rich has mentioned several times that Sony has a difficult task selling this console without denigrating the base PS5. I was kind of shocked how much they did highlight shortcomings of the PS5 that this would "fix", yet they still did a terrible job selling it. I guess my question is: given that the hardware advancements and the addition of PSSR seem genuinely exciting to me, why do you think this came across so poorly? What should Sony have done differently? It seems to me that there is a niche market of customers for this console, but imho they did not even succeed at really selling the advantages to those peeps who didn't blink at the price tag. Which raises a second question: is the failure of this announcement (online sentiment seems negative pretty much across the board) down to price/hubris, or the wrong marketing strategy? Or is it a clear/ultimate validation of Microsoft's position that the combination of current economics and technical development means that a mid-gen refresh just doesn't make sense at this time?

alpha54

Apologies for the essay - I was really surprised by how much this disappointed me given that I was at least somewhat curious and excited. Here are just the two questions I had without the commentary: 1) Given the hardware and software advancements could be genuinely exciting, why did this come across so poorly? What should Sony have done differently? 2) Is the overwhelmingly neutral-to-negative response to this announcement "just" due to price/hubris/wrong marketing strategy? Or is it a clear sign of validation for Microsoft's position that a mid-gen refresh does not make economic & technical sense this time?

a weird little goblin

Hello DF crew! The PS5 Professional has finally been announced, and the reaction has been somewhat negative, mainly due to the price! It makes me wonder a bit about the future of the console industry. As you’re well aware, we’re in an era of diminishing graphical returns. The improvements aren’t as big as they used to be, and the cost to achieve those improvements, both from a hardware and development perspective, just keeps increasing. So what do you think console manufacturers should do now that “better graphics” just can’t be as strong a selling point when it comes to new console generations? Are there any technologies or innovations you’d like to see Sony or the others console manufacturers invest in to help keep their systems relevant? Or is the entire console industry now just as doomed as Nintendo has been all these years?

alpha54

Completely agree - I think there is a niche target market of consumers who are willing to pay a premium price for a better console while still wanting that ease-of-console experience, but the right mix of price & capability is still of vital importance for appealing to that market. The PS4 Professional and the Xbox One X both nailed this well enough. If the price gap becomes too large, you are getting into territory where the people who care most about the improvements are better off with a PC, and if the advantages are not super clear (as they did not appear to be in this presentation) then there's no reason to move from the base machine. I'm a bit surprised how much of a miss by Sony this is.

alpha54

Yeah this struck me too. As I replied elsewhere I do think there is a niche target market of players willing to pay a premium for better performance while sticking with the console experience, but I think that market is much smaller than it was during the PS4 generation. Like you said, for those who REALLY care, PC can give them even better performance and better value, and for those who only care a little bit more than most, this will be a total miss based on price and/or lack of big enough perceived improvement vs their base model.

alpha54

Sorry that was a very verbose way of basically agreeing with you - I think you are right that this market is too small to be worth it, and Sony themselves are making that market far smaller still with the price structure of this console (base price + nothing being included).

alpha54

It did strike me that the visual differences Cerny was describing as significant were barely perceptible via the Youtube stream, to the point that I wonder whether the average viewer will notice them at all...

alpha54

This is totes just based off my anecdotal feel/recollections, but to me it seems quality is usually the default, which is why this stat really surprised me (in a positive way I guess, as someone who cares about fps). I would have expected it to be pretty much the reverse given it usually requires people to change a setting.

alpha54

Agree tbh - what struck me most and what ultimately made this feel so disappointing is how little we learned. I don't think the price point would feel as outrageous if they had given us any idea at all about what kind of value there would be in terms of games - how much of people's libraries will see upgrades? What are some NEW and upcoming games going to look like? Showing the third round of visual upgrades to a couple of old first party titles was a pretty underwhelming strategy :/

Adam Ford

The Console wars may be upon us once again, Drink up me Hearties Yo Ho! How much more performance does the PS5 Pro offer over the Series X based on your bespoke calculations? Does it make more sense to build a PC when you consider the price point Sony is targeting?

sirseky

or the equivalent to a 800€ (884$) PC Kit

John_Doe

Greetings from the angry mob! PS5 Pro presentation, we can all agree was underwhelming at best. Not a single demo to showcase the capabilities of the new hardware. Even the short clips of updated old games (some of them PS4 games!) did nothing to prove Sony’s point. My question is, will we have a State of Play prior to the opening of the pre orders or launch of this new console that dives deep into the software that will take advantage of the PS5 Pro or this will be it? Thank you all at DF for your always outstanding work!

Mr Wolf 15G

Mark Cerny "We made the GPU much larger and increased the speed of the memory it uses". PS5 has unified system ram, I don't think he means the GDDR6 is faster. He means the on die cache?

iOne Spellskreen

Would be nice to get some information about HAL(Hardware Abstraction Layer), that looks like is present on XBOX S/X, is possible that some kinda of access to "bare metal" of XBOX consoles could allow developers to make better optimization if they want instead of throw that work on some kinda garbage collectors and auto memory allocators e.t.c. Such option could make some competitions between XBOX X and PS5 Pro, at least for first party devs.

carrotsauce

i do agree, coming from someone who is currently enjoying Astro Bot, I'm excited to see how they can improve all the games in the PS5. I'm just very nauseated about the price tag.