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Buffy 3x19 (Extended) - Choices (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-03 17:01:01
Edited:
2024-07-10 00:14:56
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Faith..... Rule #1 of being a bad guy: NEVER kidnap Willow.

Files

Buffy The Vampire Slayer 3x19 - Choices .mp4

Shared with Dropbox

Comments

AlyAdmirer

Take your confusion at the open... and now imagine that you HAVEN'T seen "Earshot", and you've got the 1999 experience. :-) Once I saw "Earshot", though, I took Buffy & Willow's conversation at the end as a sign that the break was over.

Claire Eyles

I don't think many people really liked Joyce as a character when the show first aired, but I've always appreciated how realistic the character seemed as a mother. She made mistakes, she did dumb Mum things and embarrassed her daughter at times, she showed both frustration & deep pride in her daughter. Joyce felt like an actual fleshed out parental character in a sea of other TV mothers who, at least in the 70s through to the early 90s, all seemed to only be allowed to have two character modes - apple pie, white picket fence perfection Mum, or bad, evil, totally neglectful, no redeeming features Mum. It was just nice to see a mother figure in a show act like a real human being for once.

AlyAdmirer

Also.... Willow's dress in this episode: liquifying my knees for 22 years. And counting. :-)

Bri

I LOVE this moment in Willow and Buffy's friendship. First of all, Willow choosing to walk alongside Buffy on this path, and commit to being a partner in this fight. So beautiful. Then, the moment where Willow is telling Buffy the story, sitting cross legged on the counter top across from one another? Just beautiful. I think their relationship taught me so much crucial stuff about female friendship, and how it can be forged over the most deeply held commitments we have. Chef's kiss.

GreenDragon

Yes! As a teen/young adult watching this when it aired I was fairly meh about Joyce, but as a mum myself now I really appreciate her character.

William Hult

The way i read Faith looking at the knife is that she really appreciated the gift from the mayor. Faith seems to have had pretty bad parents, which has led her to adopt the mayor as a father figure. The knife is important because it's probably one of the few gifts that she has ever been given by a "parent". The fact that the mayor doesn't think much about leaving the knife behind is indicative of the imbalance that exists in their relationship. Even if he cares about Faith he has never needed this relationship with her in the way that she needs him.

Ron Fehr

I could see how proud you were of Willow every time she did something brave or witchy. You had a big smile on your face. I just realized that there were a few people who had to make choices in this episode. Willow decided to go to UC Sunnydale. Buffy decided that saving Willow was more important than keeping the Box of Gavrok. The mayor decided to agree to the trade. And Oz cast the ultimate vote when there was a disagreement about saving Willow. Through his actions instead of words obviously.

Dave Ford

So just a comment on your thoughts about the Mayor and Faith - he doesn't need her to be arround him to feel safe, he's invulnerable - my best guess as to why he almost shouted at her about not opening the box was to protect her - he was a lot less concerned about the policeman opening it. Essentially, I think you're comments later on are right, you're projecting your hope that Faith will become 'good' again onto the scenes between her and Mayor Willkins - Is her relationship with him really that different to that between Buffy and Giles? Sure, he's evil , but has there been any indication that he doesn't care for her?

Ron Fehr

Yes, that's one I forgot.

zerofk

Your confusion about Buffy and Angel is how I feel about them throughout season 3. In one scene Angel is telling Buffy they need to stop, in the next it's the other way around and he's begging her to stay. Hell sometimes it feels like it switches within one scene. I hate it. I never liked the relationship anyway, and this season it's just unbearable. I also don't really like Snyder's sudden obsession with drugs. Whenever something like this is introduced in an episode just for a payoff within the same episode it feels cheap. Another example is in Gingerbread: Willow suddenly mentioning every other sentence how her mother ignores her. Bad writing that is. Luckily this episode does have plenty of good to counteract the bad. The whole scene with the scoobies planning the heist is great. Overall the good outweighs the bad.

Whisper_dvm

My opinion of this episode is conflicted. There’s a lot of good here but it’s also just kinda ... boring? Idk it just feels like nothing really happens. It’s probably my least favorite out of the last half of S3.

HuntingSwan

It's so interesting to me, all the reactors I've seen always seem to feel the mayor doesn't care about Faith at all. I never felt this way and as someone else said above, him shouting at her not to open the box was in my opinion just to stop her from getting hurt. Love your thoughts on everything Domi!

Thom Purdy

My position on Joyce: She became a much better mother when everybody stopped lying to her.

Jonathan Bruser

My opinions about Faith are complicated to the extent that I can't share all of my feelings with you because I don't want to ruin future episodes, but I will point out something that seemed noteworthy. After Willow tore into Faith with her words, Faith knocked her to the ground and said, "You hurt me, I hurt you. I'm just a little more efficient." What gets lost in all the physical violence is that Faith basically admitted to Willow, "You hurt me with those words. You struck a nerve with what you said, so now I'm going to hurt you back in the way I'm most familiar with." Whether or not Faith truly is more efficient at hurting Willow than the other way around, I'm not so sure. I just think it's telling that even with her devotion to the Mayor, Willow's accusations of Faith's betrayal sting enough for Faith to feel hurt by them. Something to keep in mind, I like to think.

UTU49

Great comment, Claire. There are a handful of factors that make Buffy stand out among supernatural shows with a teen protagonist. One of the biggest ones, for me, is that both Giles and Joyce get to be actual characters -- not afterthoughts, like the adult characters frequently are on shows with a teen protagonist.

UTU49

I actually found that comment pretty heart-warming.

Raven Dark

The way I see it, Buffy and Angel didn't break up at the end of Enemies. Her exact words were, "I need a bit of a break." After everything that happened, she was asking for a bit of space to deal with it. And at the end, he asked her if she was still his girl, and she said, "Always." Not so much a breakup as a breather because seeing him pretend to be evil brought all the Angelus stuff back for her. Love this episode.

Whisper_dvm

I agree with this. Then they “cleared the air” in Earshot and break/breather over

Steve Quast

C'mon Wesley! You're going to throw your future wife under the bus for the Mayor's box? Really?

UTU49

I was going to make these points, but you two fully covered it. Thanks. :) [ADDED: I went ahead and posted my thoughts below, since I had already written it.]

UTU49

Hi Domi. I love watching reactors who love these characters as much as I do. Here are a couple of interpretations of these events, that are different from how you were seeing things when you watched the episode. Angel/Buffy relationship ups and downs. I think when Buffy said in Enemies, “I think I need a bit of a break,” I think you took it as a bigger thing than the characters did. By “a break”, Buffy just meant one episode or half an episode, not indefinitely. I’ve noticed that several reactors have interpreted Faith’s hesitation in the school as her having second thoughts about her allegiances. I think it’s pretty clear that Faith just wasn’t sure whether she wanted to cross into “enemy territory” to get her knife. My interpretation is that Faith’s hesitation was 100% about the knife. That’s how it looked to me on my first watch.

FernWithy

I assumed the "break" ended when she went over and talked to him during "Earshot."

Steve Quast

Never fear. I don't trust your memory at all......I kid, I kid. It's terrible how much the writers personally attack you. Something must be done about this travesty. Creepy or not, I love the relationship between Faith and the Mayor. The Mayor is such a great villain. While he's technically evil, he's also funny, quirky, and his affection for Faith helps to humanize him even more. Really good episode overall. There are too many good things to mention.

Steve Quast

50 billion spiders fit in the box in the same magical way that 50 billion brain cells fit in the vacuous space that is my head.

Steve Quast

Maybe Snider's looking for drugs because he's been going through withdrawals since Band Candy.

Steve Quast

The Mayor's advice is absolutely valid. It's interesting that, while he was obviously just saying those things to mess with them, he was giving legitimate fatherly counsel. Just one more interesting aspect of his character.

FernWithy

Heh, Northwestern isn't in Indiana, but it just occurred to me that there is, in fact, a monster in Hawkins, Indiana for great crossover...

Jordan Haddow

Nice reaction. So hard to discuss specifics in this episode as everything is pretty much a stepping stone to the finale. I thought I would discuss characters instead. Willow, such a boss ass bitch this episode. The glimpse of her under pressure kind of shows what we have seen as sweet innocence may have been more a case of a lack of self confidence. When put up against the wall, Willow can push back. Love the use of the pencil trick as a defense. As for Xander, I think the reason he may be the Zeppo of the group while Willow isn't, can be put down to his lack of ambition. All this time near death experiences are a fact of their lives, yet he hasn't pushed himself to better any of his battle skills, whereas Willow has her hacking and has been pushing forward her knowledge of witchcraft. Also, I liked Snyder's part in this episode. All last season he tried so hard to kick Buffy out of school. At the end of the season, we found out this was because the Mayor had been pushing him to do it. Now, he sees that he has been taking orders from the bad guy, and it isn't sitting well. So much fun for a background character. (Of course, I still just see Quark from Star Trek DS9 every time I see him, so the sleaze kind of just seems normal). All right that's it. Anything else I say will just be a spoiler. Looking forward to the Prom.

Ron Fehr

I wonder a bit about the mayor's feelings for Faith. They may be somewhat genuine. He spoke about being with his wife (Edna Mae) right until the end. Was there any female companionship for him in between her and Faith?

Bri

Hi Ron. I disagree about Faith and the Mayor. The more I watch it, the more I see him as just manipulating and exploiting a very very vulnerable young person. He might think he has affection for her- abusers often think that about their victims. His affection is totally contingent on her following orders and behaving in a particular way. It's not real. My opinion, for whatever it's worth!

Ron Fehr

I'm not disagreeing with you, Briony. It was just a thought I had. The fact that Mayor Wilkins never mentioned anyone else just made me wonder about that. You brought up some very good points.

The Suburban Big Man

Northwestern University is in Evanston, Illinois just north of Chicago. It's a nice campus, I've been there many times.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

And while the mayor and Giles have a lot of parallels, Giles has never said anything like this to Buffy despite everything that happened. The mayor is very much in charge of the mayor and Faith dynamic, I wouldn't say the same for Giles and Buffy at all. Whether Giles SHOULD have said something is another matter. There was a scene cut from season 2 when Jenny said that he should be more concerned than he is and should keep a closer eye on Buffy and Angel but Giles has never poked his nose in to the kids' personal lives. I'm one who thinks he DID see Willow and Xander kissing in the library in Revelations but he chooses not to get involved. tbh, right call IMO (besides, since when has Buffy listened to him 😉)

Domi E

Oh my! I can’t imagine the confusion haha. And yep I guess that did mean break was over but I missed it… Woops.

Domi E

That’s actually very true! Now I’m curious to rewatch s1 and notice all of Joyce’s complexities!

Domi E

Yup completely agree!! They’re the freaking best!!!

Domi E

OOOOOOH!! THANK YOU!! That makes a lot more sense!!

Domi E

So true! Great points! Love these titles!

Domi E

That’s an interesting point! I can def compare their relationship to Buffy/Giles more now that I’ve seen the finale! Turns out their relationship was quite more meaningful that I expected but at this episode I don’t think I had noticed. Makes me excited to rewatch 🤓

Domi E

I can understand the frustrations for sure! But I thought Synder’s drug hunt was pretty funny overall but yes very on the nose!

Domi E

Oh damn really? I thought there were some really great moments!!

Domi E

Thank you!!! And yep I guess that does make a lot more sense after seeing the finale, I don’t know why I was reading their relationship this way but I guess he really does seem to care!

Domi E

That’s a great point!!

Domi E

Yup yup that makes sense. I guess I was expecting a larger talk of getting back together but I guess not, woops!

Domi E

That makes so much sense thank you!! I never thought so much about the enemy territory, makes a lot more sense for sure!

Domi E

Great points y’all!!

Domi E

Haha that would be so fun!!!

Domi E

Thanks Jordan! Great points!

Domi E

Oh damn, that’s a really good point. I think that’s def how I was seeing things too Briony!

Domi E

Woops, my bad! But ah that’s awesome!

Rey

Guess we will have to wait and see

Ron Fehr

I was just thinking about how Buffy and the gang are reacting to Wesley. To them, I guess Wes represents the Watchers' Council, and Buffy's experience with them hasn't been good. Therefore they don't much care for his input at the moment.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

Totally, and he usurped Giles so the others would be pissed off (since I don't think the others know why he was fired). And of course Giles just enjoys being sassy ;)

Ron Fehr

That's one thing that I noticed. Giles is more free to make snide comments. I liked his remarks a couple of episodes back about where demons should live.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

So we can't mention anything in Angel that you can't remember....that really limits it, doesn't it :P This is a very cool episode. Technically Wesley is right, of course, if you are only looking the cold hard facts, but what does that make you? Is a victory worth it if that's the price? I also find it interesting that Buffy assumes that Giles is siding with Wesley (which I don't think is actually the case), which may be a bit of fall out from Helpless. But Oz destroying the means of destroying the box!! \o/ The mayor's speech to Buffy and Angel is great too. He's not wrong :/ One tiny detail I've always enjoyed is when Wes and Giles drive the van away as a decoy - you can see Giles' head poking out of the top of the van while he laughs like a maniac :D Looking forward to the next one, mostly to see you all dressed up, obviously ;) Oh, and I really should have counted the number of times you've mentioned Ms Weekend in these last few episodes. You keep going ya crazy Jenny stan ;D

Domi E

Very interesting indeed!! And ahhh, there’s no way I’ve been mentioning her a lot! I rarely do!!

UTU49

I've gone to about 5 universities. At 2 of them I stayed for longer than just an afternoon.

Effie

With Buffy and Angel I always see them as not broken up because the desire to want to be together is always there. In the show 'Friends' there's this line of "it's never off the table" and that's how I see them. As for this season....I'd say from Episode 10 onwards they were dating because pretty much all their scenes had romantic undertones :)

That’s Not Acting

Something to think about with this one: if willow had just escaped instead of trying to snoop they could have destroyed the box and there would be no danger of the ascension.