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Toxic Romances... (Patreon)

Published:
2026-04-21 17:26:39
Edited:
2026-04-21 17:31:35
Imported:
2026-10

Content

Legitimate question. Why is a romantic story that features unhealthy, mentally unstable characters, NOT considered romance? Sometimes it gets rebranded by certain readers as a psychological thriller or something like that, but it could have been the author's intention to depict a romance between two unhealthy individuals. Is that not what Romeo and Juliet is about? A tragic romance about star crossed lovers?Romance is a complex subject that gets wrapped up in things like childhood need and a multitude of feelings that often don't make any sense. It looks like a lot of different things, not just "healthy", ideal behavior. It could very well be the attempt at something healthy, but if the individuals don't know what that looks like, it's still a valid, human experience.In the original version of She Weeps for the Devil, I avoided showing anything that could be considered "toxic" because I didn't want to be held to these moral standards that seemed to have cropped up in the last 15 years. I've gotten very close to these intense feelings that may have been love in my personal life, but it wasn't always healthy because I wasn't healthy. I'm still not fully healed from my childhood trauma.Barring certain stories from being labeled as romance disregards parts of the human experience that results in catastrophic failure. We are ALL capable of that if pushed to our limits. Most people's experiences are probably not that extreme, but it's NOT a moral failing to be a deeply flawed human being. Yes, we are fully accountable for our actions, but that also means serious healing is in order.I believe any emotional wound can be healed, but some people never get that far because many don't realize they are even wounded. We're constantly told not to take our own feelings or our suffering seriously because that somehow makes us corrupt and worthy of social rejection, harsh judgement, and sometimes sadistic and cruel punishment."Stop crying! Stop feeling bad for yourself! Your suffering doesn't matter because it's not horrible enough!" Or it's something like "Your suffering is too alien to me, therefore I will categorize you as a monster in my head that needs to be tortured or completely obliterated from existence."I don't think there needs to be such a stark delineation between romantic stories featuring "healthy" or "unhealthy" characters. The full spectrum of human experience is very real and ought to be depicted through art. Not everyone has to enjoy it or indulge in it or approve of it, but I don't think there should be this intense social pressure to prevent it from being expressed through paint or pixels. People should NOT be punished for wanting to read about the parts of the human experience that are familiar (via trauma for instance) or deeply uncomfortable because of our fear around the depths of being the special type of animals that we are. Honest expression is how we understand ourselves better as human beings.We are fascinating creatures because of our psychology!

Comments

Amber

Are we speaking like mental health issues between the two? Because there are love stories like that that are not considered anything other than romance. Take love and other drugs which is a very good movie about people who have to deal with physical health issues as well as mental health issues. But if we're talking about two people who have suffered from psychosis, for example Harley Quinn and the joker, it is very well labeled the same as a dark romance or morally black romance. For a reason. It's still a romance, just not one that is ethically sound to what a normal romance would be. Romeo and Juliet is known as a normal romance, just a tragedy. Not the same as having butcher and Blackbird, which is a book about two serial killers falling in love. I think the difference is definitely semantic and nuanced based on the intent of the reader.

Suzyfluwho

There is a whole subgenre category for romance called dark romantasies that is full of "toxicity" and unhealthy relationships.

ajoji_comic

I'm considering mental health issues of all varieties. Dark romances and tragic romances both register as tragedies in my mind because of how much pain and suffering is required for people to get to that point where their anger and frustration isn't just directed at themselves, but towards the world. Destruction, regardless of whether it's directed to the self or externalized, is still destruction. I feel like the phrase "dark romance" carries a negative connotation. People disregard it as a lower form of art, something base and primitive, because it doesn't seem prestigious. If there's sex involved and it's meant to be arousing, it's written off as something cheap instead of what is actually is, which is--human pathos. Within the webtoons sphere and on social media, there seems to be a lot of moral crusades against romances that involve mentally unstable characters. Like people going after authors and readers that want to engage with "dark" art in an attempt to destroy their lives or shame them and make them feel like horrible, moral failures. It's just something that bothers me because I want people to heal and I think part of healing requires looking at all aspects of the human experience.

ajoji_comic

That's true. I'm mostly irked at the moral crusading I see against it. Like going after people's livelihoods or trying to shame them into not making or consuming these types of art work. I think it's harder for people to heal and understand others when that happens.

Kamis

I think the bigger issue is that romance is collectively viewed as pure and universally desirable… everyone should “want” to experience love, right? But what makes ppl upset about say, a romance like harley and the joker is that it can be viewed by the audience as something desirable and acceptable to experience. The idea of anyone celebrating the joker as an ideal lover sounds absurd because of how much he uses and abuses and degrades harley… but for that relationship to be promoted as if it were true love, can be harmful. It promotes toxic treatment of partners. People start to feel justified in how they treat their partner based on couples like that being portrayed as “relationship goals.” In an ideal world, people would be rational and recognize that no one should be abused that way, but the reality is that, for some people, if all you’ve ever known is toxicity and abuse…. That IS normal behavior and you’re less likely to question when someone mistreats you because, “yeah, everyone goes through that at some point right? It’ll pass and things will be happy again.” I do enjoy dark romances… but i always hope/look for series that show the characters evolving and growing out of the pain and trauma. I love seeing characters who are determined to be healthier and happier people. I may have gone off base from what you were trying to discuss though. I think the toxic romance does involve romantic feelings… but because of the nature of relationship, the romance theme becomes the subcategory.

ajoji_comic

I too enjoy stories about people fighting to survive and live a richer, more healed life. I also understand liking art that is about catharsis and not feeling the pressure of being a perfectly healed, well behaved person. It's really fucking hard to heal years of trauma as it is, given how much pain is required to make progress. I just think people can be very harsh to those that are suffering and don't realize what healthy behavior even looks like. They often get shamed, mocked, and ridiculed, which puts people on the defense instead of encouraging them to self-reflect. If someone is born into a system where they're traumatized, then they behave how a traumatized person typically behaves, and then they get brutally punished for being a traumatized person that doesn't even realize they are emotionally wounded and split off, I'm just not sure how people can heal. Personally, I think the key to that is taking our own suffering seriously, understanding and empathizing with ourselves, and therefore being gentler to others who are also struggling to figure out how to be a more healed person. I feel like society can be way too harsh sometimes.

C.G

I wouldn't use Romeo & Juliet as the best example as I'm on the side that THAT shouldn't be labeled as Any type of romance story, not even a tragedy, but a cautionary tale and reminder of times past both metaphorically and reality of that times with what was allowed and accepted to have even allowed such a thing to take place as far as it did as long as it did, especially given the ages of the parties involved, their relations, and why anyone with sense would look at this in it's entirety and still go "Yes. I want this for myself, this a dream to me and best test to show our love to the world." And NOT feel genuine Cringe of shame at that. Now from what you said in the and response to another, I agree that your story, the original run and the new style you're doing, you're showing how people who are "Toxic" can work and have reason to be considered a romance but aren't, but to my understanding the issue is still the matter of the public not liking the truth or the 'ugly' sides of society and themselves in their faces vs the usual trope of 💩 that you have if them wanting people to be totally 'healthy/good/likable' all around even to an extent where YOU just don't realize you're good cuz you've been 'beaten down' to believe otherwise (which is what usually goes for the existent of media's willingness to touch on 'toxic' coupling, but even then it's depressed or manic pixie girl who's a symbol for undiagnosed autism or neurodivergent getting with a 'healthy/nice' guy who either teaches her hot behave and changes her to his mold, a boring man who she inspires to live different till he, too, changes her to his molding or they breakup by the next airing cuz she 'wouldnt settle down' or she gets with a toxic or similar guy and they embark on self destruction together before one or both go too far and break up and usually leads to one {usually the girl} dying and the guy recoving and moving in life with her as his first love and reminder of fast but dangerous time of his past not to repeat like it was mostly her fault- Back to the point) but have been subconsciously still acting good, but don't realize it cuz you've been in autopilot the whole time and draining yourself more. I noticed they aren't fans of stories like the original line of She Weeps For The Devil because it calls them out on their hypocrisy as so called religious and 'Godly' but don't act like it when faced with people like Grave and other refugees in situations like his or even Ellie just being a normal 20 something just trying to live and figure things out for herself but just so happens to be on the less favorable end of the stick in life n not be judged for still living it best she can from on lookers who don't even know her but go off her immediate tired appearance and rather needlessly judge than show compassion or, ya know, minded their business. It takes the quote "Kill a monster when you first see it, for if you hear it's past, you're more inclined to sympathize with it." The warning is about caution to allowing too much empathy/compassion sway or blind one's eyes n min from making the right move against something/someone before them, but that's taken out of context here no different than how the quote "Blood is thicker than water' is but the shortened very much out of context to the situation it's being used in full quote of "The Blood of The Covenant is thicker THAN the Waters of The Womb." In that built ties in action and bonding override bloodsties of random genetics n placement of birth. Long story short - It confronts them with realty they don't want to see or think about cuz then they're look bad for condemning and practically gatekeeping something natural, even amongst 'toxic' people, but worse if those 'toxic' people are only that way because of factors out of their genuine control and now are just living the best they can to their ability, functioningbor otherwise, yet still have hope or try for the normalcy of relationships, romantic or otherwise, and their maintenance. Worst, I notice, is case where the 'normal' person isn't getting anywhere or what they want in life but have the 'toxic/downdrodden' individual to look down on, but find they're actually doing well even with the added weights life gave them n they just had to bare with it. In fact, it's worse when that's the case cuz they actually make it look 'normal' even though they themselves aren't. Like the open discussions Grave and Ellie have, their being open to each other's hobbies even if totally opposite their own and willing to try it without being disrespectful if they rather not - I'm rambling sorry, It's the Shrek and Addams Family effect as I call it. They don't like proof that you can be one's genuine odd or 'toxic' self, flaws and all, and still able to not only love yourself, albeit forgetting at times, but still trying and it not only okay, but that there's still chance of another out there no different or Willingly to be at your side through it all. This destroys the 'reason' of usual romantic tropes that are actually toxic to work. For the 'toxic' people (good or bad/villain or hero) to work vs 'nomral' people - EVERYTHING has to be open, upfront, and meant from the jump, there are no lies there can be no hiding, and there are no assumptions only facts. So there's ZERO room for either party to try and get the jump on the other or have them in a position of confusion they KNOW they shouldn't be in with someone they're supposed to trust n rely on, especially in romantic affairs. Most people now don't like that degree of honesty since they can't handle that with themselves,much less with others or be with someone who demands such, so quick to call THEM toxic when all that was asked to be totally forthright of their wants and intentions. And that 'ruins' the mystery in most romance tropes and easy to write in as psychological instead of romance relation. Most still want the romance of fairytale old-school n Renaissance Disney of Savior invasive White Knight or Predator Prince Charming instead of early 2000s Shrek doing someone else's job so they don't screw him over ruin his and instead ends up with the girl and shown that he's not the problem others made him think he was that he inevitably just accepted and played into and has right to set the record straight but still live as he wishes proudly but take into account the feelings of new counterpart as he's still learning himself and now has someone to lean on and learning with him along the way, having not needed to change much themselves or himself beyond dropping their own chains that shakled them in their prior life they made look good but actually didn't like (Fiona turning Ogre and choosing to stay that way even after given the chance to be 'Normal' again plus her choosing it still when she didn't have to in the last movie) both now living authentically themselves but different. It's folks I know still upset they neither remained human or took up the mantle of King and Queen and instead left it to her cousin when both already said they wanted no parts of court and wouldn't even have been there long as they had been if her father were well but died so sudden before bringing the boy back by professionals instead of Shrek and been ready for Charming to have attempted sacking the place when he found the palace was at its weakest and had a spy inside (Rapunzel). Hopefully I'm not still rambling, but it's the same matter as with how the west views NSFW in media. There's no money or ability to 'exclude' if people were all open and accepting of things appropriately especially with full knowledge n consent of the situation and parties involved that normally pushed romance doesn't allow. I used to love "Something Borrowed" then I got older and realized how TOXIC everyone involved in that whole 'romcom' was, in general and to each other and that's actually still very much pushed for people to act like in the name of "Getting what you want at all costs n take charge of your life and wants" by lying to and screwing people, loved ones, over. But then I find stories like She Weeps For The Devil, Midnight Poppyland, hell, even The Remarried Empress and I'm shown I and my thoughts/feelings AREN'T weird or wrong, even if just shown in 2D fiction there's other who also see there's different forms of what counts as romance or share opinion of what counts as 'normal' for some people vs others even if they put on the facade of being normal just to function but not hold malicious intent like most public counterparts and puts standard tropes under more scrutiny they deserve and fuel further open discussions on the subject,like what they're doing more with Euphoria to actually unhealthy degree.

Koriander Morningstar

Loving someone else, when others haven't loved you, is hard. Also if you don't love yourself. I have been in a relationship with a good man for nearly 4 years now... and I still get depressed and tell him he should break up with me cause I'm not good for him. I have so many issues I am also still trying to heal from. But he won't let me go and the healthiness of the relationship makes me happy.

ajoji_comic

I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this! I think I understand a lot of what you're saying, although there are some references I'm not familiar with. Anyhow, I want people to be more engaged, and even if we don't fully understand each other, I think it's important to try expressing one's self to the world anyway. I'm not always sure if my ideas are clear enough when I write these essays, but it's okay not to be able to fully articulate an idea in the moment. I try to revise my ideas constantly so that I can better articulate my ideas at some point in the future. Being more engaged with other people and with the media you like is how things feel more animated, more alive. A lot of things nowadays feel either dead or in a prolonged hibernation. I'm hoping to stimulate more activity =) I use the example of Romeo and Juliet because it's been used as the basis for so many romantic stories. I think it's interesting because it represents the sensation that many people get around romance: they feel as if nothing else in life is worth living for, so they either self-annihilate or spend their whole lives chasing a carefully crafted idea of a person and disregard all the other aspects of life that could be enriching. I kind of did that with the first version of SWFTD, and once they got together, it was like...what now? So many series end at that point for a reason. If the character's lives aren't fully cultivated, things realized, then there's nothing left to enrich it. As for why people gatekeep the label of romance: I think it might have something to do with their own feelings around certain stories and the stigma "dark" romance stories can have. People look down on it as being cheap, not prestigious, and morally wrong, so they feel like they need to label it differently to be able to enjoy it, even if that wasn't the author's intention. They use terms like "psychological" to make certain stories sound more cerebral and socially acceptable. I have no issues with people doing this for themselves, but I see videos and witch hunts online condemning people who make or enjoy these fictional stories (I suppose in a less than ideal way) and it seems like a sadistic excuse to make themselves feel better about enjoying darker stories, while hurting people in the process. It's fine to be critical. I'm open to people critiquing my art and my ideas, but trying to run people off the internet over stuff like this degrades the culture.

ajoji_comic

*hugs* I'm glad you have an ally and someone who loves you. It is tough to heal alone and love our self if life has been consistently cruel. I've had similar issues with self-esteem too because I was rejected from birth by the people that were suppose to love me the most--my parents. That rejection hurts more than anything, but that combined with rejection from peers and teachers in school, potential friends, then coworkers and people online...It feels like there must be something fundamentally wrong with me if I keep getting rejected, but I don't believe that anymore. Of course no one is perfect, but it's important to be our best ally regardless of whether we are alone or not. What I want most out of life is to trust myself and understand myself as deeply as I can. I want to rely on me and genuinely believe that everything will be okay, and that I can handle whatever comes my way. I hope that others can feel that way too. I think the world will heal if that happens on a mass scale, and of course, on an individual level.

Suzyfluwho

Oh 100%. It why I think there are a lot of people being drawn to that type of literature. Those "toxic traits" or "mental illness" being portrayed in those stories are...yes...amplified to an extreme...but it makes those characters human. They aren't the perfect main characters who say all the right things...they are the messed up and imperfect people that we, ourselves, can relate with. Its a safe place to explore our in minds and fantasies. Its not for everyone, but it shouldn't be shut down or silenced just because it makes someone uncomfortable. That is what art is. Its there to shine a light on all the nitty gritty that we might not see or want to see. It shows us sides of humanity that may not be pretty but is there. Hiding it doesn't make it go away. Embracing it...seeing it...identifying it...thats how we grow...its how we heal...its how we learn to live again...and its how we move on.

Sherri F

My take on this simply is we don't classify stories with toxic couples or individuals as "romantic" because overall as a society, that means we have to acknowledge that there is some form of normalcy with mental illness and for too long, most societies have viewed those with mental illnesses and traumas as "dirty secrets" that if they couldn't be cured, needed to be hidden away. Or some may label such stories as "dark romances" but never as a romance, regardless of how the story may pan out and the characters may heal and become that "normal, Happy couple" society craves. IMO, it is the same in how Western culture views sex. We view it with either too big of a stroke or to little of a brush. That's why growing up, seeing how Europeans approached sexuality was curious (not so much fascinating) to me because in America, especially in the 80's and 90's, showing too much clavicle even though clothes showed that much, was too risqué. Either it was fullout porn or showed everything (full nudity but no sex act) and had so many rated R's following the guidance for the movie but that same scene could play out in a European movie and depending on the act (love-making vs sex) and the full nudity was scene as everyday events: there was no culture shock to seeing this. So when people place their standards of what is pure and good and it is not based on what is good for society but personal beliefs that may be rooted in religious upbringing or strict societal codes, they tend to view anything that is not normal, nice, or less than as anything but romantic. And we all know romance can be dark, it can be heavy, it can be wrong, and it can be dirty; it can be all of these things and still be romantic. I guess once we step out of identifying everything that doesn't harm us or others but makes us uncomfortable as taboo, maybe then stories like yours can properly be labeled as "romance" and not a psychological thriller or dark romance.

Sherri F

I think you were spot on. When I was replying, I immediately thought of dark romances and Harley and the Joker and you're right, although they were toxic (especially Joker), when they were good, they fit like a glove. There was an understanding in their chaos that only they could see and to the outside world, it made zero sense. I also agree that dark romances where you see some growth, especially with the toxic character is great because it feels authentic and real. Of course, some people can't outgrow or escape that trauma and as you mentioned, all they know is to lash out at others, but for those that can step out of that and eventually heal from that, will they be a perfect partner? Probably not, but can they be a decent partner and realistic, not some prince charming or magical princess who can never do wrong? Sure thing. And most would be able to relate to those real characters than ones who experience issues but are too perfect and never had a real life issue (parent abandonment, abuse, etc.) that a lot of people experience but we're told to push it down, forget about it, move on from it so we can become productive members of society.

ajoji_comic

I agree with you. I don't think there needs to be a distinction. "Normal" romance can easily become something very unhealthy, even if on the outside, it seems like sunshine and rainbows. Couples that never fight, always stay positive, while suppressing "bad" feelings or splitting off to avoid conflict, thereby ignoring serious problems, is not what I'd call "healthy." While looking at my filthy room, I was just thinking today about how people view mental health only in extremes. Unless people are doing abnormally harmful stuff to themselves or to others, it's not viewed as being a serious problem that needs to be addressed. I'm very messy, a borderline hoarder, but people in my life don't have any grace towards me. They disregard me as a lazy slob. If you're clean, people perceive you as "healthy" and well adjusted. If you're somewhere in the middle, you're lazy or gross. If you're an extreme hoarder and you end up on one of those youtube channels that do cleanings for free, then you're mentally "ill" (I put that in quotes because I don't feel like that's the right word to describe the body's natural responses to psychological trauma; it feels reductive and I think people's dismissiveness towards their own suffering, and the suffering of other humans, is evidence of that). Through getting to know various people, I learned that very clean people can be quite mentally unstable. Excessive cleaning can be a way of distracting from serious problems and escaping it psychologically. "Don't think about the pain, just CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN." Not all of course, but I've known people like this. And many of the people who fall into the "messy" category can be healthy or quite depressed. It depends. It's not just the extreme hoarders who have serious problems. I honestly think everyone's suffered. Everyone's had painful, traumatic stuff that's happened to them of varying degrees at some point in their life, and that's why everyone is struggling. It's not just the economy or politics or whatever. If we all had a great start to life and the tools to navigate it with confidence and genuine trust and love for ourselves, I think people could cope way better than they're faring now.

Sherri F

I recall there was this author on a online novel app, and she had an amazing dark romance novel and I mean this thing was Donnie Darko dark. Not just "oh, he's a broody, dark vampire with mommy issues" dark but stuff, as you stated, is only allow to circle the outside of your mind because it's taboo and frowned upon. She was getting to a point in the story where the ML was having miniscule growth towards the FL (still hella obsessed in not a healthy way but learning to take her thoughts and feelings into consideration even if it meant on his terms) and she had to drop it because too many people lodged complaints of the violence and graphic details of her story. To say I was pissed was an understatement because in my mind, if it's not your cup of tea, go find that cup somewhere else. But we were building a little group who either were budding writers and felt they were in a safe space to explore these ideas even if they didn't harbor said thoughts or desires to implement them, but to see someone bring their own insecurities or dislikes into the forum not intended for them and use it as an echo chamber to vilify the author and those supporting them was so disappointing. There are so many stories out there and like this author, she was interested in dark romances but started writing that one because none of them had the ending she wanted; they all eventually caved into pressure to tone it down and make it palatable to the general audience instead of the secular few that it was intended for and she chose for her mental reprieve to just remove the book entirely from the platform and shelve it for maybe another time. But what made the story good was that the characters could be someone you met in real life. The demons they were fighting or embracing were real demons you could fight in your day to day life (although most wouldn't go to the extremes the ML did unless they are truly evil and thus, it made you not fall for him at first. If anything, you rooted for the FL to escape). And the FL, she was strong but not too strong. She had those airhead moments where you wanted to scream "why aren't you doing this? Why didn't you say that?" But it was real; it reminded you that as much as we want to think we would be bad asses, step in the line of fire, be bold, sometimes our past or current events humble us to where we can't do that heroic thing and that is okay when it doesn't happen.

yassmine kelly

Sorry for the late response but I really wanted to give your question some serious thought instead of a knee jerk response. So, I work in community mental health. I’m a therapist, I specialize in trauma. I do some drug and alcohol counseling as well. In addition to general mental health like working with people who have schizophrenia. I only stated my profession to say I see how a lot of the things I mentioned affect relationships. So I’m 32 years old. I was born in the 90’s and like any 90’s baby Disney movies was a huge part of my childhood and I think Disney unintentionally did a great job at depicting “happily ever after” the ideal standard of Prince Charming. While Life Time and Hallmark with hallmark Christmas movies picked up the ball and ran with it. In media I think for the longest time movies and tv shows have shown either this ideal standard of marriage or ideal “relationship goals” or the opposite. Toxic or down right abusive relationship with domestic violence shown. And I think you asked a legitimate question. I don’t think people don’t want to see a level of dysfunction. However, I think any type of dysfunction between family, friends and romantic relationships is automatically seen as unhealthy because the bar and standard of what a “normal healthy relationship” is set pretty high. But nonetheless I’ll wrap up my long winded explanation. I think the issue is more complex and nuanced. But ultimately I think the public is craving for original ideas and content. Sinners by Ryan Coogler is a great example. I would just keep telling the kinds of stories that you want because I think we need more examples of relationships that are not cookie cutter perfect and just as you said people are flawed and so are relationship sometimes. And showing that is not a bad thing