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Dear Book Club Readers,

You wanted a space for general open discussion, so now we have opened one up!

Welcome to the first open thread general book discussion. Let's talk about the format and philosophy to kick things off.

Why is this open thread here?

At this point, we have a lot of videos and lectures but you might not know which one is the right place to post your comments.

Maybe you're reading a book ahead of schedule, related to the schedule, or related to a book that's buried down the feed.

Now you have a place to put all those discussions and points you want to raise.

As these posts will rotate on a bi-weekly basis and are dated, you can structure your reading and provide yourself with some accountability.

You can also get all the other wonderful book club members weighing in on your thoughts, responses, and recommendations. I'm hoping this is a nice recurring area for readers to check in and see how everyone else is approaching their reading.

Format - book titles and spoiler warnings

Please begin your comments with an indication of which book you're talking about (if relevant) and give us a heads-up if there are spoilers, so those who haven't read the book can avoid if desired.

Example:

(Siddharta, Hesse) *spoilers* Hey guys, I've just finished reading Siddharta and wanted to know if anyone else noticed the parallels between ____ and ____

Example:

(Tolstoy & Hugo) *no spoilers* I've got started on Les Misérables ahead of the schedule last week and am currently enjoying ~5 pages per day. I had a question about Jean Valjean and Levin specifically for anyone who happens to know some French and Russian ......

What should you talk about?

In short:

Anything you like.

  • Short stories
  • Author details
  • Areas to explore
  • Your current Big Read
  • Questions about literature
  • Things you're finding difficult
  • Things you want to recommend
  • General life updates (we're interested)

If you have deep thoughts about specific topics brought up in the long-form lectures, the comments section there is still the best place to put those - and I have made it my mission to respond to everything I see personally.

But this will be a nice rolling area to put anything that doesn't fit in those areas or for those of you would want to start specific conversations based on your recent reading.

We've got a great book club "family" vibe going on here - and I have you all to thank for that.

There is no other book community that can boast such a rich array of diverse and nuanced thought.

So let's open up a general conversation, get to know each other better, talk among ourselves, and chit-chat about books in whatever level of depth you fancy.

I will add tags based on the authors and works discussed and link these book chats over on the contents page to make them easily searchable for future reading, thinking, and discussion.

I'll get us started by leaving my own comment below.

Thank you all!

Happy reading!

Files

Previews only

Comments

hardcoreliterature

(Austen, Hesse, Aurelius, Dickinson) *no spoilers* Hello everyone! I’ve been on a bit of an Austen binge of late. If you would have asked me just a few years ago if I would want to read Austen extensively, the answer would have be a strong no. But now I’m delighting in rereading Pride and Prejudice before bed and actually find it laugh-out-loud funny. I’m also enjoying a reread of Herman Hesse’s Siddharta immensely. It’s a slim read, but deserves one’s stillness. You can pause on every single line and find something to meditate on forever. It’s also extremely visual and you’ll feel like you are in India yourself. This novel pairs nicely with Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations. For poetry, I am dipping into Emily Dickinson quite frequently and treating her poems almost like an I-Ching reading.

Michael Kwong

(Rules for a Knight, Hawke) *no spoilers* Finally a thread for general discussion! Thank you so much Benjamin for arranging this :D So to start with I just want to share a book that I recently pick up, that is "Rules for a Knight" by Ethan Hawke. A bit of background: This book contains letters written by a knight back in 1400s, to his children before his last battle (he died on that battle). And the rules inside were passed to him from his grandfather, a noble knight. Oh boy this book is short but thoughtful, half stories half lessons, something that you can carry around and flip through when you want to (just like Marcus' Meditations!) When I'm reading it it really feels like my father or grandfather talking to me, teaching me life lessons. I haven't finished the book but I highly recommend it!

hardcoreliterature

What a cool book! I will have to check this one out :) I've been on a bit of a quest through chivalric romances from that time period in prep for Don Quixote - so this would be a fun read in a more serious vein! A grandfather teaching one life lessons is compelling praise!

Bill Freeman

Hi Ben and Bookclub – Here is my reading update (no spoilers): Reading – Wendy Moffat, “A Great Recorded History: A New Life of E.M. Forster” Read/Recommend – E. M. Forster, “Maurice.” Reading – Oscar Wilde, “The Picture of Doran Gray.” Two great lines from The Preface: “The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography.” “The is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.” Reading – Proust, “In Search of Lost Time.” Reading about five pages a day; listening to about five pages a day. Read / Recommend: Edmund White, "Marcel Proust: A Life" Reading – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago: 1918-1956” (Vintage, one volume). A couple of great lines from the Forward by Jordan Peterson: ". . . Perhaps we could take from his writing the humility that would allow us to understand that our mere good intentions are not sufficient to make us good men and women . . . Perhaps we could . . . take personal responsibility for the suffering and malevolence that still so terribly and unforgivably characterizes the world." Read: Finally, I am enjoying short stories. These include James Joyce, “Eveline,” and Jorge Luis Borges, “The Library of Babel.”

Florian Pesantes

( Listened: *no spoilers* face to face interview from 1959 C. G. Jung with John Freeman in the psychiatrists home in Switzerland/ Stephen Fry: lecture: The Power of words in Nazi Germany Benjamin McEvoy: today about Marcus Aurelius, yesterday about William Blake) Beethoven: Piano Sonata No 17 in Eb Major performed by Igor Levit Reading *no spoilers*: Jérôme Meizoz : »Faire le garçon » in German translation “Den Jungen machen” . A swiss contemporary novelist, very entertaining about gender roles and relationships in a conservative swiss County likely in the seventies. Some chapters today during a time travel. Maupassant: “Timbuctoo” in German translation as I didn’t have Boule de suif at hand. (At dawn with the first coffee) Nietzsche: Zarathustra: “Das Kind mit dem Spiegel” (“The Child with the Mirror”) with a marker pen in my hand after Maupassant Austen: “Persuasion” chapter 13 (half of it) For tomorrow I hope to be able to read through Aurel’s second book of “Meditations”, I’ll choose an English translation to be able to discussing it here. Just the first quick read to spot the one to comment on. As well I have been informed that my “Proust” in the English translation recommended by Benjamin has finally arrived. Going to pick it up and if I find a really quiet hour to celebrate my first encounter, I’ll open the first volume as if it were a holy book and read the first paragraph loud.

Florian Pesantes

Dear Bill, thank you of reminding me of “Dorian Gray”, this is one I’d read as a teenager, in German translation. So I wonder what it’ll meant to me now that I’m 57. And to enjoying his work in the original language, now that I can read it more fluently.

Sharon xx

Hi Ben and fellow logophiles - it's great to 'meet' you all. I'm going to start with a brief bio I think [brave or stupid?] 58 years old, mother of 6 [3 boys, 3 girls, one son left at home just finished Y11], grandmother to 7 [number 8 due very soon, little girl]. I have 4 Devon Rex cats [think spider monkey X dog + lambs wool curls = Devon Rex]. I work for the NHS in the HR eRostering department where I'm the lead administrator for the Corporate Division at our local hospital here in Milton Keynes [aka City of Roundabouts], UK. My lovely other half is a Prison Officer in a high security facility. Current texts [no spoilers] = HLBC + Tolstoy/Dostoevsky/Proust/Dickinson/Blake Personal + Dickens/Mantel. I have to admit I'm cherry picking my way through the book club texts/assignments - just choosing the ones that pique my interest or that I've had in my sights for a long time but just haven't been brave enough to try. . . until now! :) I'm on part 5 of Anna Karenina - I'm really enjoying it, far more than I thought I would. I have it both in physical form and on Audible which has helped me to be able to maintain a steady progress as I can listen while I'm taking my lunchtime walk around the Trust at work. Usually work days are manic and leave me too tired to remember my own name never mind read, so Audible is a blessing! I'm about to complete part 3 of Crime & Punishment - I also have this in book/audio formats. I alternate one week AK and one week C&P which is working well. Despite my initial misgivings with this text in regard of the topic/setting/atmosphere I'm very driven to read it. Finding a decent audio has been a challenge and the one I have isn't the same translation as my book but hey, first world problems. Proust - what can I say, I'm a tiny bit in love. I'm doing a page or two each day [not always on a work day :( - I work Mon-Wed] and my consequential journaling is copious and rambling. Proust writes the way my mind works, it's like seeing my own thoughts and internal dialogue in print. It's actually a little unnerving and incredibly cathartic. Dickinson and Blake are my next poetry tasks. I love poetry in all forms. I might get to one of these this weekend. Personally I'm reading Bleak House by Charles Dickens and Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel. Bleak House is my comfort read, my soft place to fall when I just need to escape. Wolf Hall sates my love of historical fiction, the first of a trilogy, documenting the rapid rise of Thomas Cromwell in the court of Henry VIII. This and the second in the trilogy are both Booker Prize winners, which is normally enough to put me off, but after years of prevarication I've succombed and so far, this has not disappointed. I have both Wolf Hall and Bleak House on audio too and the narrators are absolutely outstanding [WH - Ben Miles, BH - Miriam Margolyes] which really takes the listening experience up to a whole new level. Looking forward, my next big focus is Les Mis - I've been ready with my book/audio for months. I'm both excited and a bit terrified for this as I'm unsure if I'll stay the distance but I'm not one to shirk a challenge. I'm using this summer to catch up and complete all current reads so I can just focus on Les Mis. There will be some poetry, sonnets and my daily helping of Proust, but nothing else to distract me from Mr Hugo! Take very good care everyone. Enjoy the weekend!

Chris Kramp

Hi All, Nice to meet you all and I am looking forward to some great discussions in this space. Currently Reading How To Read Literature Like A Professor - Thomas C Foster *No Spoilers* I am really enjoying this book and would like to hear if anyone else in this group has read it. I have always loved to read, but *also* always felt like I was missing 80% of what is going on in the great books. This book, along with Ben's excellent lectures, is helping me start to see the things that I've been missing. This is the kind of material I wished they had taught in my high school and college literature courses. Persuasion - Jane Austen ** Spoilers ** Here is something that caught my attention, in Chapter XI of Persuasion. Anne and her group from Uppercross have traveled to Lyme and recently met Captain and Mrs Harville, and their forlorn friend Captain Benwick. They are invited to the Harville's house, and it is described as "... found rooms so small as none but those who invite from the heart could think capable of accomodating so many." Anne is initially "astonished" by this, but is soon "... lost in the pleasant feelings which sprang from the sight of all the ingenious contrivances and nice arrangements of Captain Harville...". Later, after this visit ends, Louisa "... burst forth into raptures of admiration and delight on the character of the navy - their friendliness, their brotherliness, their openness, their uprightness; protesting she was convinced of sailors having more worth and warmth than any other set of men in England..." Contrast this with Sir Walter Elliot's opinion of sailors early in the book, who he disdains because they appear to be older beyond their years. I feel Austen is using the descriptions of Captain Harville's residence and contrasting with his character, and playing this off of the description of Sir Elliot and Kellynch Hall from earlier in the book. Captain Harville's house is small, not elegant, to Sir Elliot probably pathetic, but his personal character, and the character of the other navy men and women in his orbit, is upright, rich, happy of very high worth. Sir Elliot's property is expensive, fancy and showy, but his interior character is vain, shallow, preoccupied with appearance and little else. This passage indicates that Anne and Louisa both agree that the sailors are on the whole better, and happier, people. This is the type of thing I am trying to notice in the books I read today, and Ben's example of slowing down and doing a deep reading is helping me notice more than I have in the past. I'd be happy to hear if anyone else agrees, or disagrees, with my reading. Do you think I am seeing something that is really there in the text? Let me know! Proust - In Search of Lost Time * No Spoilers* I'm only a handful of pages into the book, but very happy to be reading it as this is a book I have wanted to read for years, but didn't think I would be able to get much out of it. I have to concentrate very hard to follow the long, meandering sentences, but I am enjoying the style and flow. It feels like poetry to me. Looking forward to spending lots of time with this book :-) Cheers and Happy Reading, Chris

Florian Pesantes

I saw some fellow members here sharing some biographical data. I like this, it adds colour to the comments . Also, I unfortunately am crap at remembering names. Here’s a bit of my CV: I’m in my 58th year of life, born and bred in the Black Forest - this for Benjamin: in the sign of Aries with the ascendant Sagittarius- . Baptised as a Roman Catholic, tried hard to be one and finally lapsed after a short encounter with Opus Dei. Ever since struggling at a decreasing intensity with monotheistic religion, some flirts with Umbanda, my spirits being Oxalá and Oxossi. At the moment I’d see me as an agnostic open to experience. I was an introvert child, always reading and listening to music, that no one else would like. Only one friend at any given time, preferred the company of adults to fellow children, and my solitude over all. I started early to read, prose and nonfiction (history, insects). I forgot to find pleasure in reading during my first semesters ad Kiel Uni (faculty of human medicine) . Discovered the social life in my student fraternity, heavy drinking, sloppy studying and leading a second secret life in the gay scene of Hamburg. During these years as a navy student I’d spent all available time in Latin America, namely Buenos Aires and Bogotá, immersed in language and life there. The authors I remember: Vargas Llosa, García Marquez. Some years in the Navy followed, as a GP, and training to be a dermatologist. After 15 years in the forces I moved to Brazil, Rio de Janeiro first, Manaus thereafter to continue my residency. After a bit of working in different practices back in Germany I opened my own in Hamburg (again). A terrible treadmill that I sold after seven years to move to Britain where I crisscrossed the realm as a Locum mercenary in dermatology. I loved the country dearly and immersed again to an unreal degree. But literature did not come into my life until one gorgeous sunny afternoon in Winchester, Hampshire, where I met a young busker in the High Street who bewitched me with Shakespeare soliloquies. Out of this has grown a deep inspiring friendship, a platonic love that has led me through the recent crises invigorated. Opened my soul to poetry, the great English, my friend’s Arthur L Wood own works but also poetry in my maternal language. Rilke namely. I’d been deaf to poetry for over 50 years and now I couldn’t live without it no more. After the lyric detour I was so glad to come across my first lecture by Benjamin on YouTube and through this back to prose in a new, far more intense and enjoyable way. I’m so grateful for his guidance and grateful to be in such extraordinary company of kind interesting, thoughtful and thought provoking people!

hardcoreliterature

Oh, Devon Rex are beautiful! I'm planning on getting one myself once I've moved and settled this year :) Thank you so much for sharing this. I'm also planning to read some Hilary Mantel myself soon. I've heard a few readers call Bleak House their comfort read now. And I must say, without giving any secrets away, I was so torn between choosing this and one other Dickens for the schedule... I'll check out that Margolyes audiobook you recommended :) As you mentioned you enjoy historical fiction, you might find Josephine Tey's 'The Daughter of Time' a fun read - it dispels the common myths and false beliefs around Richard III - a detective novel, but the detective is holed up in hospital and amuses himself with some historical digging. Really fun stuff and a breezy slim read. As for Les Mis, along with Don Quixote, it's quite easily the novel I am most excited for on the schedule too. It's going to be a wild ride!

hardcoreliterature

Hi Chris :) Thanks for all of this! "How To Read Literature Like A Professor" - I believe I have the kindle version but haven't gotten around to reading it, so if you recommend it I'll dive right in! I enjoyed a similar book some years back called 'The Art of X-Ray Reading' by Roy Peter Clark - he does these really deep dive analyses really well. I absolutely love what you've uncovered in Persuasion - like sifting for gold! This is wonderful --- "Captain Harville's house is small, not elegant, to Sir Elliot probably pathetic, but his personal character, and the character of the other navy men and women in his orbit, is upright, rich, happy of very high worth. Sir Elliot's property is expensive, fancy and showy, but his interior character is vain, shallow, preoccupied with appearance and little else." I will expand upon this in a video, but I definitely believe you're seeing something that was a deliberate crafting on Austen's part. As you say, slowing down and rereading uncovers this sort of thing - that's exactly what makes reading so enjoyable for me, finding this kind of thing :) I'm also thrilled to hear you're enjoying Proust! :)

Florian Pesantes

Dear Benjamin, the only prose I write, this fairly regularly, are letters to the referring colleagues, where I have to make a shiny success of my therapeutic failures. Unless you qualify my cheeky comments to your wonderful lectures as prose. Otherwise no. Apart from a recent attempt to translate one of Arthur’s poems (the easiest and shortest, I can assure you) into German. But that’s not real prose either.

Florian Pesantes

This another answer to Ben: (unfortunately I don’t seem to be able to post as direct answers, sorry to mess up the thread) Re: Timbuctoo: at first reading it seemed to be fairly racist. These days one feels a bit uneasy about this. Once this first shock overcome it seems to be rather laconic and lacking of adornment . But it unfolds incredible power and scent well after finishing the reading. Like if there were a hidden spell attached to it. I haven’t forgotten one detail of the plot and I can see the main character before me clearly, days after the lecture and he doesn’t appear ridiculous at all. A wise fool, a winner amidst proud fools. The translation? I can’t really tell, I haven’t read the original French version, and no other German translation to compare with. It sounded good, a bit old-fashioned, which fits the napoleonic epoch well. The translator Georg Freiherr von Ompteda translated the whole of Maupassant and was Godson to King Georg V of Hanover who had been King of England had Victoria not been born and lived so long. Lucky you. Ompteda published under the name of Georg Eggestorff, and I’d never heard of him before I googled him for this occasion. ;-)

Bill Freeman

Florian – Interesting that you post about racism. I felt that with some of Tolstoy but wondered if I was bringing a 21st-century sensibility to the writing, which, in fact, is a translation. I am reading Hemingway’s short stories and definitely feel a racist undertone (e.g., “The Killers”) which seems gratuitous. It just doesn’t wear well.

Tom Pearsall

Sorry I am late to post here but I work too much. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s posts. Quick bio: I am a 47 year old hospital medicine physician in Richmond, Virginia. My wife and I met in high school and have two teenagers, one at University of Virginia where I also went to school. My wife and I were both English literature majors in college. I briefly considered continuing with this into graduate school however I remember my English advisor telling me that it was a difficult career to pursue and unless I couldn’t imagine doing anything else but study literature I should consider other options. I guess he was the Lady Russell to my Anne Elliot since I was persuaded to do something else and that ended up being medicine. I believe it was the right choice but I still love to read. I just finished Cormac McCarthy’s first novel, The Orchard Keeper. **no spoilers** Though his best stuff came later it is still a superb book. It's a coming of age novel set in beautiful Appalachian Tennessee with a lot to say about what we are losing as we move towards a technological society at the expense of our connection to nature. I am planning to read (or reread) his books chronologically. There is also a podcast called “Reading McCarthy” that just started and I love it! I am ducking in and out of Anna Karenina - now almost finished with part 2. I am enjoying it along with Ben’s lectures. Otherwise I am both reading and listening to Proust. I went trail running today and listened to the first chapter on Audible for the second time. I don’t normally listen to books but it is better than nothing. I am just starting to get a feel for Proust. The quality of his writing really shines even on audio. Unfortunately my audio version is slightly different from the Everyman Library version I am reading. I am staying faithful to this book club with Persuasion and hope to keep posting my thoughts as the lectures come out. Lastly, I am poking my nose into Shakespeare’s sonnets, Thus Spake Zarathustra, and Harold Bloom’s “How To Read and Why”. I just posted on Borge’s “The Library of Babel” as well. I don’t normally read so much simultaneously but this book club almost demands it to keep up! I find I am adapting quickly though.

Tom Pearsall

Sorry I am late to post here but I work too much. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s posts. Quick bio: I am a 47 year old hospital medicine physician in Richmond, Virginia. My wife and I met in high school and have two teenagers, one at University of Virginia where I also went to school. My wife and I were both English literature majors in college. I briefly considered continuing with this into graduate school however I remember my English advisor telling me that it was a difficult career to pursue and unless I couldn’t imagine doing anything else but study literature I should consider other options. I guess he was the Lady Russell to my Anne Elliot since I was persuaded to do something else and that ended up being medicine. I believe it was the right choice but I still love to read. I just finished Cormac McCarthy’s first novel, The Orchard Keeper. **no spoilers** Though his best stuff came later it is still a superb book. It's a coming of age novel set in beautiful Appalachian Tennessee with a lot to say about what we are losing as we move towards a technological society at the expense of our connection to nature. I am planning to read (or reread) his books chronologically. There is also a podcast called “Reading McCarthy” that just started and I love it! I am ducking in and out of Anna Karenina - now almost finished with part 2. I am enjoying it along with Ben’s lectures. Otherwise I am both reading and listening to Proust. I went trail running today and listened to the first chapter on Audible for the second time. I don’t normally listen to books but it is better than nothing. I am just starting to get a feel for Proust. The quality of his writing really shines even on audio. Unfortunately my audio version is slightly different from the Everyman Library version I am reading. I am staying faithful to this book club with Persuasion and hope to keep posting my thoughts as the lectures come out. Lastly, I am poking my nose into Shakespeare’s sonnets, Thus Spake Zarathustra, and Harold Bloom’s “How To Read and Why”. I just posted on Borge’s “The Library of Babel” as well. I don’t normally read so much simultaneously but this book club almost demands it to keep up! I find I am adapting quickly though.

Tom Pearsall

Sorry I am late to post here but I work too much. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s posts. Quick bio: I am a 47 year old hospital medicine physician in Richmond, Virginia. My wife and I met in high school and have two teenagers, one at University of Virginia where I also went to school. My wife and I were both English literature majors in college. I briefly considered continuing with this into graduate school however I remember my English advisor telling me that it was a difficult career to pursue and unless I couldn’t imagine doing anything else but study literature I should consider other options. I guess he was the Lady Russell to my Anne Elliot since I was persuaded to do something else and that ended up being medicine. I believe it was the right choice but I still love to read.

Tom Pearsall

I just finished Cormac McCarthy’s first novel, The Orchard Keeper. **no spoilers** Though his best stuff came later it is still a superb book. It's a coming of age novel set in beautiful Appalachian Tennessee with a lot to say about what we are losing as we move towards a technological society at the expense of our connection to nature. I am planning to read (or reread) his books chronologically. There is also a podcast called “Reading McCarthy” that just started and I love it! I am ducking in and out of Anna Karenina - now almost finished with part 2. I am enjoying it along with Ben’s lectures. Otherwise I am both reading and listening to Proust. I went trail running today and listened to the first chapter on Audible for the second time. I don’t normally listen to books but it is better than nothing. I am just starting to get a feel for Proust. The quality of his writing really shines even on audio. Unfortunately my audio version is slightly different from the Everyman Library version I am reading. I am staying faithful to this book club with Persuasion and hope to keep posting my thoughts as the lectures come out. Lastly, I am poking my nose into Shakespeare’s sonnets, Thus Spake Zarathustra, and Harold Bloom’s “How To Read and Why”. I just posted on Borge’s “The Library of Babel” as well. I don’t normally read so much simultaneously but this book club almost demands it to keep up! I find I am adapting quickly though.

hardcoreliterature

Ah, I had a similar advisor say the same to me and how it wasn't a practical path unless I wanted to be a teacher. Many of the universities acknowledge this too, by making the undergraduate degree in English automatically become a Masters after several years to help in the job market - which sounds like an outrageous lie, but it's true! Great to hear you're reading McCarthy. I'm amping myself up for the Blood Meridian podcast, because I know it's going to be brutal... I'll check out that 'Reading McCarthy' - sounds like a good one! I'm also listening to Proust on hikes, and sometimes I'll just go on the stairclimber at the gym for half an hour with Proust in my ear - my version is also out-of-sync with the Everyman translation, but it's kind of nice to get a feel for the different translations. The next 'Persuasion' lecture should be up very soon :)