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Plato's Republic: Lecture on Books I-II (Patreon)

Published:
2022-05-06 17:16:55
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Today we're meeting Socrates and friends to discuss justice.

We're breaking apart the Socratic method of discourse, learning how to argue like Socrates, taking note of our cognitive biases, and wondering whether the illusion of morality is more important than morality itself.

Feel free to utilise the timestamps below, and share your impressions of Plato's Republic thus far.

Recommended Edition:

Our Introductory Video:

Lecture Timestamps:

  • 0:00 why read Plato’s Republic?
  • 4:00 reading the Republic as imaginative literature
  • 6:20 how to read along with the series
  • 7:45 the opening of the Republic
  • 11:00 focusing on the synopses
  • 12:30 what is a sophist? Who is Thrasymachus?
  • 15:00 how Socrates differed from convention
  • 16:00 why was Socrates scorned?
  • 17:30 what is justice?
  • 18:00 Cephalus in the shadow of death
  • 19:00 momento mori & living the good life
  • 20:00 imaginative literature & vicarious experience
  • 20:30 Polemarchus on the art of justice
  • 21:00 helping friends and harming enemies
  • 21:30 how to read microcosm (& Moby Dick)
  • 23:15 is morality an expertise/skill?
  • 24:00 eudaemonia & how best to live
  • 24:30 how to argue like Socrates
  • 26:00 the importance of defining your terms
  • 27:58 winning consent & feigning ignorance
  • 28:45 the “if… then…” template
  • 29:22 Plato as frustrated playwright
  • 30:00 cognitive bias & Socrates as psychologist
  • 31:00 the difficulty of breaking habits
  • 32:00 a cognitive bias daily thinking assignment
  • 33:30 Charlie Munger on consistency
  • 34:00 Cialdini & Emerson on influence & consistency
  • 36:00 one of the most difficult paradigms to assimilate
  • 38:42 what can we use morality for?
  • 39:30 the power of reductio ad absurdum
  • 42:00 discovering our blind spots is a leveraged move
  • 43:18 Thrasymachus & right being on the side of might
  • 44:00 justice as what benefits the stronger party
  • 45:40 the Socratic Method & the aporia
  • 46:40 what is the elenchus?
  • 49:20 a marginalia/thinking assignment
  • 50:00 tutorials that follow the Socratic Method
  • 51:00 what is Socratic discourse?
  • 53:00 the paradox of learning
  • 54:00 when the Socratic method goes wrong
  • 54:30 how I took my education to the next level
  • 56:00 when is the Socratic Method most beneficial?
  • 58:00 the mindset of a great philosopher
  • 58:50 asking questions vs giving answers
  • 1:01:00 Socrates as teacher of meta-learning
  • 1:02:00 would people would act unjust if they could?
  • 1:03:00 removing our ego when it comes to learning
  • 1:03:30 Glaucon, Adeimantus & three kinds of good
  • 1:06:00 when moral and immoral man swap places
  • 1:07:00 the parable of the ring & the illusion of morality
  • 1:08:00 the complex characters of Plato’s Republic
  • 1:10:00 when the moral person is in chains
  • 1:11:00 the theology of Adeimantus
  • 1:12:56 “appearance overpowers reality”
  • 1:13:00 the exciting thing about deep-reading the Republic
  • 1:14:30 preparing to create a community
  • 1:15:00 a city for pigs, speculative fiction & Maslow’s hierarchy
  • 1:19:00 preparing for our next lecture
  • 1:20:00 questions for you

Questions for You:

1) What do you make of the Socratic method of discourse?

2) What would your perfect community look like?

3) What is justice? What is morality? And is the reputation of morality more important that morality itself?

Happy philosophising, everybody!

Files

Previews only

Plato's Republic: Lecture on Books I-II

0:00 why read Plato’s Republic? 4:00 reading the Republic as imaginative literature 6:20 how to read along with the series 7:45 the opening of the Republic 11:00 focusing on the synopses 12:30 what is a sophist? Who is Thrasymachus? 15:00 how Socrates differed from convention 16:00 why was Socrates scorned? 17:30 what is justice? 18:00 Cephalus in the shadow of death 19:00 momento mori & living the good life 20:00 imaginative literature & vicarious experience 20:30 Polemarchus on the art of justice 21:00 helping friends and harming enemies 21:30 how to read microcosm (& Moby Dick) 23:15 is morality an expertise/skill? 24:00 eudaemonia & how best to live 24:30 how to argue like Socrates 26:00 the importance of defining your terms 27:58 winning consent & feigning ignorance 28:45 the “if… then…” template 29:22 Plato as frustrated playwright 30:00 cognitive bias & Socrates as psychologist 31:00 the difficulty of breaking habits 32:00 a cognitive bias daily thinking assignment 33:30 Charlie Munger on consistency 34:00 Cialdini & Emerson on influence & consistency 36:00 one of the most difficult paradigms to assimilate 38:42 what can we use morality for? 39:30 the power of reductio ad absurdum 42:00 discovering our blind spots is a leveraged move 43:18 Thrasymachus & right being on the side of might 44:00 justice as what benefits the stronger party 45:40 the Socratic Method & the aporia 46:40 what is the elenchus? 49:20 a marginalia/thinking assignment 50:00 tutorials that follow the Socratic Method 51:00 what is Socratic discourse? 53:00 the paradox of learning 54:00 when the Socratic method goes wrong 54:30 how I took my education to the next level 56:00 when is the Socratic Method most beneficial? 58:00 the mindset of a great philosopher 58:50 asking questions vs giving answers 1:01:00 Socrates as teacher of meta-learning 1:02:00 would people would act unjust if they could? 1:03:00 removing our ego when it comes to learning 1:03:30 Glaucon, Adeimantus & three kinds of good 1:06:00 when moral and immoral man swap places 1:07:00 the parable of the ring & the illusion of morality 1:08:00 the complex characters of Plato’s Republic 1:10:00 when the moral person is in chains 1:11:00 the theology of Adeimantus 1:12:56 “appearance overpowers reality” 1:13:00 the exciting thing about deep-reading the Republic 1:14:30 preparing to create a community 1:15:00 a city for pigs, speculative fiction & Maslow’s hierarchy 1:19:00 preparing for our next lecture 1:20:00 questions for you

Comments

Scott W

This is going to be exciting! I have enjoyed these first chapters, and although I feel very inadequate in discussing some of these topics, I'm going to invest and give it a go. 1) What do you make of the Socratic method of discourse? The Socratic method appears useful for learning what we don’t know but I’m less convinced of its utility for coming to useful conclusions. I don’t know if it’s truth the method determines or simply who the most talented debater is. As a Software Engineer, I am used to a programming language being explicit and only compiled one way, so I find the use of natural language in a reasoning process like this one incredibly frustrating. Almost every step through the discussions in the book so far I find myself thinking, ‘Wait, define what you mean by X’, ‘No, that’s too much of a leap, that doesn’t hold with what you said before’, or 'you've literally only stated that to line up your next point, but you don't really believe this bit', and so on, until by the time I get to an assertion, I’m not convinced by how we got there. I think the method is useful for drilling into the gap between what we think we know and what we actually know (which might be nothing), but it’s not generally useful for coming to usable conclusions. Maybe I’ll change my mind, maybe I’m missing something.. I don’t have any real Philosophy experience so far.. 2) What would your perfect community look like? I am happy to take part in these kinds of discussions on the proviso we don't get into any political flame wars. I don't intend to upset anyone.. but I won't prefix all my posts with that from here on in. Ok? :) Ok.. I have a theory that when people answer this they describe something like where they spent their childhood, assuming that was in one place and they were happy, else they describe somewhere that sounds like a union of the places they grew up, or something a little more dreamlike; somewhere they never had but imagine would be perfect.

Theories aside, for me, the perfect community is one where the majority share strongly agreed values and have a shared cultural identity. I wouldn’t want the whole world to look the same, I think it’s wonderful to travel and experience different people and places, but I think people are happier when surrounded by people they can relate to and share more of their life and beliefs and world view with. I'm not talking about people looking the same here, or having the same interests, or religions. I am talking about a community agreeing on how they should behave within a community.. it's not about beliefs or appearances, it's about behaviour. A community needs to agree on how everyone should behave if the community is to thrive. I also think the perfect community strives for something together in common, is motivated to compete with themselves and with other communities as a means to keeping fit and proactive and healthy. I think a perfect community is peaceful with its neighbours but also able to defend itself should another community not behave as well. I think the perfect community would love and respect the environment it depends on, both in the short and very long term, and has political and economic systems that allow them to make good decisions in this regard. The perfect community is able to self-regulate its size and consumption of resources; a perfect community recognises it can not and should not grow forever. 3) What is justice? What is morality? And is the reputation of morality more important that morality itself? Justice is the ‘righting of a wrong’, where the ‘wrong’ is a transgression against the rules a community has agreed are best for all to live by, and the ‘righting’ is an appropriate redress involving either proportional punishment of the transgressor, a making up for harm or loss to the wronged, or both. Morality is living in line with the rules a community has agreed are best for all to live by, and yes, I do agree the appearance of morality is more important as a kind of social contract than always following all the agreed rules; the greatest incentive to behave for a human is to see others around them behaving (i.e. appear to behave), and the greatest disincentive to behave is to see others breaking the rules. Humans don't naturally and willingly follow rules, we just don't, so we're going to break them, hopefully as invisibly to others as possible, and all do our best to maintain the illusion that we're all behaving, because generally that will lead to the best actual behaviour overall.

Emma Yap

Thank you so much for this wonderful video, Ben. I would actually go so far as to say that it was life-changing. I really like how you talk about your final year at Oxford, and how you decided to question everything and get rid of the fluff, so you had a really clear understanding of the meanings of words, writers, how everything fits together. I've instinctively tried to do this throughout my life with lots of things, but I've never heard it expressed so articulately. For me, Plato's Republic is possibly one of the most difficult books I've read, mostly because I wasn't sure how to approach it. I read Book 1 through and hardly agreed with anything Socrates had to say - which made me wonder what I was meant to get out of it? But your video helped me a lot, and I went back and re-read Book 1. 1) What do you make of the Socratic method of discourse? I actually like the way that Socrates uses questioning to expose the logical fallacies in what we believe, and to demonstrate our ignorance. I agree that in order to have strong principles that we actually believe in, our beliefs need to be challenged, otherwise they aren't really things that we adhere to. If I have children in the future, I'd like to employ Socratic methods with them, because I think this is a very healthy way of instilling a rigorous moral code. I like the mindset that comes with Socratic discourse - the idea that the questioner is just as ignorant as the person being questioned, and that they're both setting out to solve a problem. There's no hierarchy there. I do disagree though with a lot of the inferences that Socrates makes - for example, I'm not totally on board with the analogy he draws between morality and a skill/expertise. I also don't think he adequately defines when he says that a moral person would only set themselves up as superior to an immoral person. 2) What would your perfect community look like? In my perfect community, every individual would be able to fulfil their potential - this would vary depending on their individual characters, strengths and weaknesses. In other words, not everyone would be treated exactly the same, but they would be given the opportunities that best coincided with their specific needs. This might be controversial, but I would also place a cap on the value of assets that could be left as inheritance, in order to try to reduce economic inequality. I'd make sure that, as far as possible, every individual attained a certain level of physical fitness (wherever possible). If they didn't, they would have to go through a strict regime of exercise and dieting and would be educated on how to maintain that level of health, so as to reduce the burden on the health service. Every individual would also embark on a curriculum of life-long education. Their education wouldn't stop at the age of 18. They would continue studying, and developing themselves, throughout their lifetime 3) What is justice? What is morality? And is the reputation of morality more important that morality itself? These are very big questions! But I think off the top of my head that justice is about making sure that every person receives what they deserve. As for morality, I agree with Aristotle, that it's about doing the right thing to the right extent in the right situation, or something like that! It's about exercising your capacity for reason so that you can choose to act according to the mean and avoid the extremes. In today's society, I think a reputation for morality has become more important than morality itself. It's become more important to be seen to be saying the right things on social media, to support the right causes, than to actually practise morality in your day to day life. However, I think prizing appearance over reality is essentially hollow, and won't bring you any lasting benefits.