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What Should Be ADDED to a Revised First Edition Pathfinder Core Rulebook? (Patreon)

Published:
2026-07-08 12:28:32
Imported:
2026-11
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IF a revised Pathfinder First Edition Core Rulebook was created*, what things that AREN'T in the original core rulebook should be added?
Any classes? Alchemist? Investigator? Magus? Psychic? Summoner? Witch?
Talented rogue?
Archetypes?
States of Awareness?
Haunts?
Downtime?
Construction?
Campaign systems? Mass Combat? Kingdom Building?
Popular alternate rules, such as Automatic Bonus Progression or 3-action economy, hero points, AS alternate rules?
Traits?
Favored Class Bonuses by Species?
Dirty Trick? Other combat maneuvers?
Firearms?
Vehicle rules?
Retraining Rules?
Fractional base bonuses? Variant Multiclassing? Skill unlocks?
Intrigue systems?
Something else entirely?

(*I am not myself currently "working" on a Revised Pathfinder First Edition core rulebook. I AM thinking about such a project, and gathering information, and starting conversations. But it's not in my active projects atm.)

Comments

VK Flinder

I would absolutely add Psychic and Kineticist as representatives of "psychic" magic, plus the Witch. I would make the UC Barbie, Rogue, and Monk the default versions of those classes. Definitely loathe to add any more base classes than that... and the Kineticist itself might be a mistake. Alternate FCBs are too loadbearing to skip, though I'd refrain from every ancestry having 1 for every core class. Use it to drive flavor. I'd be tempted to say replace halflings, half-orcs, and half-elves with... tengu and vanara, maybe. Goblin and hobgoblin. We are definitely talking about undoing all the good you did with the earlier cuts... but man, Skill Unlocks are *loadbearing* for what I think the game ought to be.

Ebonbolt

I said it before, I'll say it again: add a Permanency cost line to spell headers. Frankly, there's a couple of skills that I think should be added back (from 3.5e), as well.

Chris Riedel

I think the Oracle is the only extra class that absolutely should be added. Personally, I would remove the Monk, but people have strong feelings about that. I would avoid adding the Advanced Classes classes, or the Occult classes, I think both involve too much additional explanatory material, especially for just one class. The Magus might also be a good choice, as might a grit-based class of some type. Every class could have an archetype or two, but that would balloon the material in the book pretty rapidly. Perhaps just a few of the classes that don't already have a lot of options, like the fighter (if removing the Monk, this would be a good place to put in a pugilist-style archetype, and similarly the ever-popular light-armored fighter or swashbuckler type). That might be a good way of presenting the rules (and thus not having to present them multiple times elsewhere) without it becoming overwhelming. I would definitely include haunts, these were very popular going forward, and make a lot of sense for fantasy storytelling. I would also include fairly robust downtime rules, these clearly are more popular now in the RPG community of the past few years. I'm torn on alternative rules. Things like hero/action points are pretty easy to stack on, but the alternate action economy should either be the new system or not be there, to my mind. It begs for the whole book to be written with both options, but that would become confusingly complex. But a lit of this is just my aesthetics, and I would be interested in hearing your own sense of what should be there, given your depth of experience.

WessexWulf

I think most of the things from the apg should be blended into core. For many, that was where Pathfinder found its unique voice as a system. Make the unchained versions the default and rework the archetypes to fit that. I’d also redo many of the core and apg prestige classes, applying the lessons from the later pathfinder ones. Make them an actual choice to consider. Unless you’re going to do 3 action economy as a default, I wouldn’t bother putting it in a core book. Same with any alternate rules. The core should be just that.

Benjamin Lash

The core rulebook is already super long., so I'd be nervous about adding too much. ABP - yes, short and popular. Archetypes - only the simplest and most popular, maybe 1 per class Unchained default - which would be skill unlocks I suppose, but they seem otherwise optional bolt ons - a lot of text mostly to support one class feature. I would not include all the stuff that belongs in ultimate campaign and APs from downtime, side quest systems, etc.

Gen Giggles

Retraining rules are the best thing to add to a core book.

Owen K.C. Stephens

I find that opinion fascinating. i don't disagree, I just wonder what makes you say so?

Owen K.C. Stephens

In a PERFECT world, the core would have one of everything the full game assumes are part of the rules and/or worldbuilding. For example, one of every kind of magic. So if the universe has arcane, divine, and psychic magic, then there should be at least one class using each of those. For each class resource, there should be one class using it. So, a class with burn, a class with grit, a class with spells, a class with hexes, a class with a familiar, a class with animal companions, and so on. This kind of design goal means that once someone mastered the core rulebook, they won't run into entirely new concepts unless they are alternate rules. And, it means people like adventure builders and 3pp will think about all those tools and levers when writing adventures or writing expansions. If Burn is in the core rulebook, people know burn is a part of the game. Then, what can you do with that? Lots of 3pp want to introduce blood magic to the game, but if you make that HP damage, then it's just turning healing into other magic. But if "blood magic" uses burn? Then suddenly there is a cohesive set of rules for when you take damage that can't be healed except overnight and that scales with your level. That said, I'm not convinced there'd be ROOM to do things that way.

Gen Giggles

When I think about campaigns I've been a player in the biggest struggle was when the campaign took a turn that went away from where it was and my character became somewhat useless. Being able to retrain feats or class abilities would have potentially negated that. I could keep a character and play in the game still. Often I have had to build a new character because the new direction doesn't favor the focus the old build. I'm not saying playing a suboptimal character isn't fun or is bad, but when you become completely useless being able to retrain can make a huge difference. I developed a habit of picking less optimal choices and get a general benefit that's not as good to ensure my character can remain somewhat relevant in the game. Basically the more optimized the system wants your character to become, the more important retraining can be to keep a character in the story rather than swap for a new character.

Ben Trieschmann

I would say the unchained Monk and Rogue should be the default versions, they are in my house/games. Otherwise I wouldnt add much. Maybe Oracle and Magus as core classes.

Chris Riedel

I can definitely see the logic of that! But I agree, it would be tough to pull off in a manageable tome. I just finally bought the V20 book and it's just a bit too big

Chris Riedel

Personally my favorite Occult class is the Mesmerist - I think it would also fit most easily with a standard fantasy setting - could see a lot of vampires or dragons (a la Glaurung) using those rules.

Urchin Prince

I don't recognize a lot of whats listed (DM moved to 5E immediately and stayed there) but I guess what I'd want from any revised PF1 rulebook would be all the skill and combat rules in one place. So for your purposes, things like combat maneuvers, firearms, and vehicle, but also the rules for haunts. traps, and how to use each skill... essentially the systems that need to be referenced for moment to moment play. Character building and campaign specific systems are the subjects that take up most of current PF writing, but I want the rules all characters have to abide by laid out in the most game table friendly format possible.

Alzrius

The obvious answer is archetypes and traits. Those are two of the most consistent additions, in that we've seen them crop up with such prevalence that it's almost hard to believe that they're not in the Core Rulebook. The only other thing I'd like to see added is domain rules. D&D used to have a built-in progression from adventurer to ruler, and that made sure there was an in-game expression of your character becoming ever more powerful, rather than having them perpetually be dungeon-delvers. Pathfinder largely avoided this by instead creating pre-fab campaigns (i.e. Adventure Paths) where you were dealing with some looming apocalypse, which was fine in terms of giving characters something to do as they grew stronger, but locked campaigns into being perpetually reactive, something I find limited character growth AS characters. Like, does your backstory really matter when Demogorgon is planning on forcibly changing the alignment of everyone in your world to Chaotic Evil? I like Adventure Paths, but even when they're not overtly railroad-y, their one size fits all nature doesn't help PCs set their own agenda. Kingdom rules should serve as an outgrowth (i.e. an extension) of adventuring, so that characters can set their own goals in ways beyond venturing into caverns where they kill things and take their stuff. So far, few D&D-style games have pulled that off, and I'd like to see PF1 do that (in a way beyond its SimCity-esque kingdom building rules from Ultimate Campaign).

Daryl

"Group skill checks" -- there are a bunch of variant rules out there from various sources, but solutions to the "we need to sneak by but only two of us have ranks in stealth" problem. Paizo never wrote one, but it's critical for a system. I'd be open to importing Influence Encounters and the revised Initiative systems from Pf2 (the best 2 things PF2 has). They're again "optional things to do more with skills" that don't change the system to make it "based off PF1" vs "revised PF1".

Daryl

Fractional bases are OK... But it largely was a fix to 3.5's muticlass problem that PF1 fixed in other ways. Along with gestalt... But fixed Gestalt. 3.5's Gestalt sucked -- "take best of everything" doesn't work. I do PF1 gestalt as "you're fully one class, but you also get the class features of a 2nd class" (so no "all good saves, good BAB, high skills" shenanigans).

Daryl

Unchained Monk, yes. Barbarian, no (fixed a non-issue -- only 'rage' needed a small patch). Rogue, no. Core Rogue was fine and Unchained rogue is way too strong (and dull) with its "prohibit 5' movement" powers and dex-to-damage. The Skill Unlocks are good -- but that'd require Unlocks in core. And it didn't improve the "gain a smattering of spells" options to be meaningfully useful. It just boosted the combat way too much. Debilitating Injury is quite excessive as written.

Daryl

Agreed. Mandatory. And generous. ttRPGs are too "long and involved" [in the good way] to be stuck with bad decisions. And retraining significantly reduces the "everything has to be perfect and you have to to have total system mastery from first level of first character!" problem.

Daryl

ABP (including a "just the stat boosts" middle ground) is a big plus. NOT NOT NOT 3-action economy or hero points. No sirr-ee.

Daryl

Including haunts: Only if they're fixed not to be mind-affecting fear effects anymore... Which they never should have been.

Daryl

Agree if it were any added class, I'd select Oracle or Witch. Alchemist is too much its own thing (and is too "setting/theme specific") to include as a basic class. (I'd drop Ranger.)

Ben Trieschmann

I disagree. Core rogue was very weak damage wise. But that is what my table, society gaming, and conversations online told me.

WAM

I might be an outlier, but I don't think the psychic rules improved PF1. I always wished they just went with a psychic bloodline, school of magic etc. instead of additional classes with their own magic system. It adds unnecessary complications. So, I wouldn’t be excited for it to be in the CRB I think unchained classes should be used in the CRB instead of the existing entries. The improvements are generally well received on the paizo forums as version improvements to those classes and not as different optional classes. Summoner, arcanist, witch, magus, alchemist do have a power creep for their class abilities over the classic classes. While I think they would be amazing to see inside the CRB (for new players and for quick reference), the base classes will probably need some updating (even just bringing in existing options from other books) to make the options look balanced (perhaps updating the core caster class attacks from 1D6+ability, to 1D6 per 3 levels like what the base alchemist bombs, arcanist exploits offer. While I think archetypes are a staples option for most experienced players, they probably don't belong in the CRB. They allow a player to specialize into a specific role. New players don't need a million options. and veteran players know what they want when they do want to specialize. I think a collected (by class) tome of archetypes is great secondary book, I don't think choosing one or two per class would satisfy the mechanic the option provides. Haunts are interesting but more complex than I think are necessary. I don’t think they belong in the CRB, and instead I think they belong as an entry in the Bestiary. Downtime (including retraining) is an excellent system that is both simple and interesting. It’s currently hidden in another hard cover and I would LOVE to see these rules in the CRB so that players have easy direct access to those options (and subsequently it would be nice to see a small addition for downtime resource tracking on a character sheet… if room could be found). Mass Combat and Kingdom Building is lack luster in my experience, having tried them several times and while they exist… they don’t create a greatly inclusive mechanic. I think the downtime building rules can be used for extremely large settlements (kingdoms) and the mass combat rules could be something in the Game Masters Guide My experience with alternate rules has shown me that players enjoy getting the headbands/belts more than getting automatic progressions. When competing items appear for those slots, ioun stones are available to fill the need. Basically, I found automatic progression to take away some of the dopamine drip of getting loot. Hero Points are however very useful to keep level 1 characters alive and keep high level risks more tantalizing (knowing you have a reroll in your back pocket). I think the system could be included in the CRB. Skill unlocks are a great way to make feat-tax costs not so painful at later levels, and I wouldn’t mind seeing those in the CRB. Other: I would love to see trophies brought into the CRB. I find these rules to increase group interest in crafting magic items that incorporate trophies. Potions, or armor that includes part of a slain beast gives non-crafters something to contribute while making the items more memorable and descriptive. It’s a great mechanic I would love to see in the CRB And sorry for the wall of text. I am just VERY excited for this potential and will help in any way to see it come to reality!!!!!!!!!!!

Silver Griffon

First let me say sorry for the wall of text. I think that the core rule book should be broken down into a players guide & a DMs book to keep it from getting too big. Yes, the DMG will get less sales, but there is a LOT I would like to see included in the base book. What I would like added to the players guide: The magus & oracle classes are a must to include, as well as the unchained versions of the base classes. Maybe the alchemist & witch as well. I think the game could use a warlord/commander type class too as well. The paladin should be open to at least the 4 extreme alignments. PLEASE include archetypes, at least 4 per class. Variant multi classing would be appreciated. Maybe just maybe the kineticist as well & a class that uses grit. So all the basic types of resources are covered. If you include a grit class, a re-do of the swashbuckler so it isn't so static would be greatly appreciated. I could see the monk being moved to a secondary book. Especially if it was going to be revised to make it take a bit from the brawler class so that the concept would be more open. Personally I broke the monk down into a combat/martial arts version & a more mystic version. Then I used Dreamscarred Presses psionics which I renamed mystic powers & used that to expand the mystics monks abilities. I still like the idea of prestige classes, but more as a way to show how different classes can fit certain ideas (like assassin or the martial or magical freedom fighter would be), or how to combine 2 classes into something more unique whole (arcane trickster/spell thief or the theurge for example.) Maybe a few actual prestige classes like archmage or high priest that you should only be able to take at higher level. One change I would like to see to the martial classes is a stamina like resource they could spend to increase what they get from feats & boost their combat ability. Fighters shouldn't be in second place behind casters. OR you could do something like a light version of Dreamscarred Press Path of War book (which is an improved version of the Book of Nine Swords). Something like all full BaB classes get a couple of maneuvers from one tradition as they level up & can get more or a wider selection if they spend a feat or two. Maybe allow from different traditions if you had a trainer who know that special maneuver. There are 2 things from PF2E that I would like to see brought to a revised pathfinder. First races like aasimar, changelings, dhampirs, the various elemental races, tiefling,& maybe fetchlings should be templates so that you can have a base of another race. (Those are also species I would like to see added to the base species, along with centaurs, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds & leshy (or other plant species) & orcs. Maybe deugar, drow, catfolk, gnolls (or some kind of dog people), kitsune, ratfolk & tengu. Maybe an alternate racial trait or two would be apreciated. The second of the three ideas I really liked from PF2 is that certain levels they got a dedicated feat to improve their racial features. I would suggest adding that, instead of having to use your regular feats to improve them. Lastly when it comes to races I always thought the favored class by race bonus was a great idea & under used. Though I suppose you could use those to purchase additional racial feats, I prefer you getting them every 5 or 6 levels automatically. Speaking of feats, I would love to see feats that improved as you level us so you can use your slots to get new ones. Most of the feat chains should be one or two feats at most. The magic item creation feats could use some condensing, or maybe a synergy rule that if you have these 2 feats you can also do X. Also, the different maneuver feats could use some combining,( or maybe trying a maneuver should no longer create an attack of opportunity). Please add in dirty fighting & drag maneuvers as well. Fighting style & teamwork feats should be core. The later could be substituted with a way to get similar boosts from something like a variation on how to do team/group skill checks. Also traits/origin feats should give you background skills & all classes could do with more skill points. Skill unlocks are a great idea & I would like to have them in the base book. Maybe 2 new skills, rituals & something for making items from monsters. Though I suppose the later could be skill unlocks. Crafting (the revised ones please), & downtime rules should be in the players book & maybe the basics of construction, the intrigue system, research rules, town/city improvement rules (including owning buildings/land) & vehicles, so players know about the options. Rules for retraining seem like a great thing to make core. I agree with Daryl that the way PF2E did influence encounters would be the way to do things in a revised edition as well. For equipment please include the stuff from the APG & common service/hirelings costs. Though I would go with a simpler bulk encumbrance system than the one with the PHG. Combat I would keep mostly the same. I like attacks of opportunity, but maneuvers & moving in combat need to stop provoking them. Either outright, or you could tie it to some minimum BaB. But, doing this would make combat a lot more fluid & interesting. Lastly limit iterative attacks to 2 & then start earning bonus damage on them after that. Maybe 3 or 4 for two weapon fighting or flurry of blows. Finally for the players book, magic & spells. Here you would expand on what the ritual skill could do. both as a single caster & for group rituals. Then expanded rules for what happens if a spell gets interrupted so players can still salvage the action or maybe even include chaos magic. Blood magic (I love your idea of using burn for it) would be great in the core rules. Maybe do cantrips as a third new skill & just use the listed ones as samples. An idea I like from Legendary games Pathfinder revision is that all classes get a base spell casting level & if you multi-class then you add them together to figure out your casting level for a spell. Useful for a thief that uses a talent to pick up some spell casting or for a cleric-mage thurge. Maybe a minimum casting DC (so a 14th level mages 1st level spells aren't too easy to resit. Can you see why I think this would be too much if the players book wasn't separate from the DMs book? :) For the DMG: I would Include everything from gamemastering & on & the same stuff from the APG,(because I consider that book so fundamental). More detailed rules for construction, the intrigue system, research rules, town/city improvement rules & now kingdom building rules. Designing places of power & basic NPC stats/mods could also use some expanding. Including on how to make a good antagonist or even a nemesis that levels up with the party would be appreciated. An expanded section on haunts, similar magical residu, the effects of planar incursions, & trap rules could all use an expansion. This is also where I would put the optional rules like hero points or the full automatic bonus progression & maybe a light version of it for low or medium magic campaigns. For magical items I would have more items that could level up & possible rituals to transfer non-unique weapons magical properties to new weapons so players didn't keep trading in their stuff. I have seen a lot of kickstarters that have done well on tattoos so I would include those as well. Also, set items are a good idea so some samples & rules for making them would be nice. Boons that character get for their deeds as opposed to an item would also be nice. Artificial limbs & monster grafts would be a good final chapter. Finally, for the monster book: I would like to see a lot more templates (3.Xs best idea). Also the items you can create from the monsters done here. Maybe grafts as well so each monster book would keep that up to date. If you got this far, thank you for reading this wall of text.

David Chart

I agree about the perfect world, and the practical difficulty. I would say that example archetypes and traits are essential, given how central they became to PF1, but careful selection would be needed for the others.

Twelveseal

Assuming you were working with access to your own assets as well, I'd suggest adding the following: - A few Archetypes for each Class. No more than three, and fairly generic. - Classes: The Magus, Kineticist, Medium, Brawler, Psychic, Cantripothurge, Gunslinger, Shifter, Bloodrager, Investigator, and the Advanced Class Guide Classes. This mandates the inclusion of some measure of Psychic Magic and Firearms. These are not meant to be exhaustive, but to introduce the concepts and fill niches and archetypal themes. I would also suggest providing Full Class conversions of the Prestige Classes. A Point Buy based "build a class" might be nice, too, to provide additional guidelines for new GMs looking to make their own. - Traits. Include a core selection and guidelines for making new ones for GMs. - Rules: Retraining, Wordcasting, Downtime, Construction, Intrigue, Exploration, and Romance/Relationship rules. As mentioned, limited Firearms and Psychic Magic (present conversions for playing existing Classes as Psychic Casters or with access to firearms). Also include the rules for hybridizing Classes. Basic rules for vehicles and mass combat/military action. Stamina as a core mechanic. Yes to Dirty Tricks and the like. Magic Point alternative rules. Likewise, Hero Points. - Other. If you were doing a reworking of PF1 across companies, I'd have loved to see Dreamscarred Press's Psionics and Path of War content brought into the core in some capacity. The idea would be to offer a taste of everything that the game has to offer in some capacity, outside of Mythic Rules, Racebuilding, and the finer details of these supplementary rules.

Twelveseal

Thinking about this a bit more, I'm seeing some issues with the core concept. If you're going to be going about making a PF1.5, as it were, and still running the SRD, you're competing against yourself (and everything on there) plus the Archive of Nethys and Paizo's 2e proper unless you're not publishing the content to the reference documents. It's going to be hard to make money that way. Forget physical publications, the main appeal would be a searchable PDF that you could access online and is better organized than the SRD unless you're, again, adding significant new content that's NOT going into the SRD. Partnership with other producers, like Dreamscarred Press, Orphaned Bookworm, Kobold Press, Little Red Goblin Games, Drop Dead Studios, and the like could help, if they were on board and willing to produce for the book, if it was offered as a subscription, or as a donation-based, ongoing "freeware" production, but even with a full wishlist of content thrown into it, a physical book is... probably not a good idea.