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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 447 | The Last of Us (HBO) Review Discussion and Spoilercast (Season 2, Episode 2) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-04-21 19:56:07
Edited:
2025-04-25 15:09:22
Imported:
2026-06
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As widely expected, episode two of The Last of Us' second season on HBO brought with it the series' most notorious moment. Indeed, it's the event which resonates through The Last of Us: Part II video game in particular, driving forward its epic (and often challenging) narrative. But this episode brings with it quite a list of changes, too, some major and others more subtle. The result is an episode some of us loved, while others left feeling... well... a tad bit befuddled. Is HBO handling The Last of Us' vital emotional beats properly? Until we see this season through to the end, that remains to be seen. But for one of us, anyway, skepticism is starting to creep in.

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Comments

Michael McCoy

I personally thought that scene was worse than the game’s version and by quite a bit, but i’m excited to see if the trio liked it and change my mind.

Mysterious Narrator

I literally just finished the episode and voilà a whole spoiler cast. It's like magic. That episode was fucking great. Abby actress proved her chops. I couldn't stop staring at the Intergalactic Heretic girl when she's on screen. Anyway let's get to it. 🎧

Cai

So conflicted on this episode. As a singular piece of TV it’s excellent. As an adaptation… I’m not sure the changes are all for the better - if not now then in the long run. They’re certainly playing with the same deck of cards, but I’m not yet sold on the hands they’re playing. But it’s currently the best rated episode on IMDB so what the hell do I know. Looking forward to all your thoughts!

Deemac

Thought that was a great episode. It had *the moment* of the season, and nailed it imo. Didn't pull any punches or lessen the impact. Sure there were some changes with the first 2 episodes with how we found out about Abby's motives, but I'm guessing that was just necessary to reveal earlier for the TV adaptation, and how it will be shown over seasons 2 and 3. Plenty of changes throughout but I thought the big ones made sense tbh. Dina being with Joel when it happened gives her more motivation to go on this crazy revenge trip. Ellie not being unconscious at the end gives it more impact as she crawled over to Joel's dead body to embrace one last time. The scenes at Jackson are all new of course, but it injects a bit more action and reinforces the threat of the infected. (Also did a better zombie winter siege episode than Game of Thrones ever did.) I never thought of this when playing the game, but it makes way more sense for the zombie hoard to attack Jackson, rather than following Abby and Joel back to the lodge - where apparently just a few motolovs sorted them out lol. Makes way more sense imo that an operation like they had at Jackson was needed to deal with that scale of infected. Kaitlyn Dever absolutely nailed Abby imo, sure she isn't buff like Abby but the performance was incredible. For some lines it sounded like it was straight from the game. And for as much criticism as she gets, I really thought Bella Ramsey nailed the sheer terror and trauma that Ellie goes through when watching Joel die

NUTSO JIMBO

I was wrong... I thought they'd drag it out a bit longer. I would love to have watched that episode with someone who hadn't played the games. They did a decent job with that scene I think. I mostly liked the rest of the changes too and the action sequence was pretty cool. Seeing those hordes got me kind of horny for Days Gone lol Especially with that new horde mode they're adding for PS5

Mick Mac

It just didn’t have the same emotional resonance of the game for me. If more time was put into the writing and staging of the death scene it could have been so much more disturbing and impactful. The dialogue felt trite, the atmosphere was just dead. Joel just got shot in the leg with a shotgun and sits in silence listening to this girl deliver this way too long speech, you would think that maybe having your leg exploded would hurt a little bit more than was performed. Also is there a Uniqlo near that cabin? They didn’t look like they’ve been traveling for literal years through post-apocalyptic America. It feels like there was a lack of attention to detail that would lend itself to a deeper feeling of immersion.

Uvula Smack

The defense of Jackson was even more nonsensical than the defense of winterfell, and I’m an accountant. Wait until the infected are at your gate to start shooting? Dont secure or barricade any of the rooftops you are standing on? Just let a bloater run around to the other side of the compound to attack the wall. EVERYONE HAD A RIFLE SHOOT HIM.

Justin 24Hr

Gene with the impeccable Viceroy Gunray impersonation

Coleman

It is really working well for me. Granted, it’s been 5 years since I’ve played the game, so with no refreshers it is hard to remember what is the same and what was changed. I feel like both Abby and Joel performances were fantastic. The only change I noticed that I didn’t love was how exposition heavy Abby’s dialogue was. But I totally understand why they did it!

Cai

It felt very end GOT for me. Phenomenal action but to what end. And having it meant needing to hold one character back in Jackson (tommy) so that we had any emotional investment in what was happening. Really strange choice for me.

Jacob

even though i wasn’t a fan of part II, it did joel’s death scene better than the show. the final blow had a real impact and ellie’s desperation and hatred came through a lot more effectively in the game

Cayla Hodge

My mom told me this morning that she can’t wait for Ellie to kill Abby 😐

AllTooEasy_

Wow that was quick. I’ll be pausing the 7hour Knockback to get into this after work today

A Hind D

“JACKSON HOLDS!” Also wow didn’t expect this from Col. ( I have Ellie’s tattoo and just replayed the games too - but this episode rocked)

Graesin

As someone who hates how the scene is set up in the game from many angles the changes including jackson attacked keeping tommy there and who is with who actually fixed a lot of the issues for me. He never needs to say hes from there for instance bc they see the fires together. I never had issue with joel dying or why he did but how it was set up felt so forced on many layers. This fixed it for me and probably others too id guess

Diddy’s Lube Guy

Gene and Colin need to just get a room already! Poor Dustin and Micah.

Cayla Hodge

Back after finishing the episode…shocked no one thought to say that Tommy is possibly not going to Seattle in the show. I know Dustin mentioned it last week but it seems more obvious after the attack. He’ll stay back to help clean up Jackson. I hope I’m wrong though.

Uvula Smack

The amount of infected just running past Tommy for no reason.

Cai

100% agree with you, Colin. Adapting for different mediums necessitates changes, but every single choice so far has me scratching my head. Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like they’re trying to appease people who hated the game, which is a little disappointing as someone who loved the game from day one and has been defending the creative choices since it released. It feels like the whole “This doesn’t make logical sense, why is Abby so buff, we need more zombies” crowd is getting everything they want so far. I hope they can win me back, I really do. It’s awesome to see such a big budget and so much talent work on something you love, so I’m looking forward to next week!

Cai

It’s because the story doesn’t work without Tommy, but Tommy also has to be in danger for us to have an emotional stake in that scene. It’s just very convoluted and forced - even if it was incredible to watch.

Breno Bezerra Bluhm

Ofc Colin didn’t like Pope Francis 😂 he was probably the only argetinian I kinda liked

Bogey

Gene I know the EXACT piece of music you keep referring to and I fucking love it as well. The song is just called The WLF, and it’s on Spotify. It’s on my playlist. Ironically it actually showed up in season 1, when David’s people were hunting down Ellie.

Xenomorph Moriarty

Hard to believe Druckmann had anything to do with this awful episode of television. Adding so much obvious dialogue for Abby to speak to Joel AKA the audience. It’s textbook bad writing. Turning half the episode into some walking dead bullshit zombie war. I thought the first season was serviceable enough but have not been feeling this season from the jump.

Monkey D Luffy

It was really funny at 1:02 when Gene was like “yeah seeing someone get hit hard enough to see it break was brutal”… long awkward pause. Colin “what are you referring to?”. Had me dying 😂

Angel

I dont understand what Colin is talking about here. Abby feels more like a villain here? At the beginning of the game, before knowing why she was doing what she was doing, she seemed like less a villain then in the show? No way. Here, even if you hate her, you can see why she's doing it. Just like you saw why Joel was gunning down the fireflies.

Dante B

“Her mother died like three days before they shot the scene and I’m like, oh man, that’s perfect.” Lock???

AllTooEasy_

I literally laughed at this. Jesus dude I don’t know what you watched.

Halph Pint

Don’t understand the Jackson hang up….if anything them leaving now post attack is even more egregious and selfish now that the town is in ruins..

AllTooEasy_

Colin… ouch weird takes.

Derek Alcott

The show is just not doing it for me. The recent episode didn't really hit me the way I was hoping it would. The casting for me just doesn't fit.

Gene Park

Fuck yeah i didn’t even know. I only like listening to it in the game but i LOVE that moody ass track. Hell yeah

DeadMail

Adding Gene definitely changed last weeks dynamic

GoofyCrazyRaccoon

Yeah, I don’t understand what he means either. In the game, I was READY for Abby’s death from the second she did what she did. Here they give you her motive on a silver platter lol

Connor

It seems from these comments that people who did not like the game that much (me) enjoyed the episode a lot and the changes they made while people who love the game didn’t like this episode that much. Very interesting…

Connor

He says Jackson Hole, you know the name of the city

Angel

Gene there's Jordan and 2 others missing from this. Tommy got both of them. And I dont think Tommy is going anywhere

Chris Fazio

Agreed. I’m in the same boat as you and this feels to me like a much needed course correction in both pacing and execution compared to Part II the game.

Connor

100%

Beau!

I love the games and love this episode. The changes are so minor and get to the same place.

pbsandwich_

I think he was referring to all of her posse being visibly against what she was doing to Joel while in the game we get zero sense of that while she’s doing it. Owen is practically begging her to stop and Mel is crying, it just really showcases how “evil” she is being to the audience when even her friends are thinking that this is too far.

Beef Burka

Tommy only killed Manny and Nick. Jordan was killed by Ellie at the Elementary School, Leah was killed by the Seraphites at the TV station, Nora was killed by Ellie at the hospital and Owen and Mel were killed by Ellie at the Aquarium.

Gabriel Baker

I really hope you guys abandon this format in the future when covering film adaptations of video games. Do not spoil the entire story, compare the show/movie to the source material as the episodes come out so the “show only” audience can also tune in. I was so looking forward to listening to these episodes and now I’ll have to wait a month and a half to binge them all, or maybe even longer if you guys plan on also spoiling what future seasons of the show will cover. Please stop this format, I understand it’s likely much more convenient and leads to more natural flowing conversations, but it alienates a large percentage of the audience.

Big Swingin' Rick

Man I dunno about this episode (of the podcast, not the show). Personally I think Colin was way off, the show goes out of its way to not make Abby the vilian, it presents her as the hero of her own story and completely justified in her actions. Also, the pod is too chaotic with 4 people, I like Gene but just he's too dominant here, Dustin was spot on in his comments and only got 5 sentences in the entire 90 minutes. High level thoughts about the episode. Yes, the battle undercut the moment in the lodge, but I think it was there to give the audience a break from what would have otherwise been a grueling hour of TV, not saying I agree, but that's why it was there. I think the battle is able to show the world in a way that couldn't be shown in the game, imagine actually playing that battle scene, pretty tough on PS4 hardware. And lastly, Dina not being on patrol with Ellie, I imagine they're doing this so that they can build up their relationship a little slower through the show, rather than having them shag on a pile of weed I second episode. All in all, liked the episode, didn't love it. Colin was wrong, Michah and Dustin were right, Gene was just there to give Colin a big ol blowie and even though he's great, this needs to be a 3 person show.

NickBLeaveIt

They gave you something to sympathize with in the game (envy that the man she is in denial of still loving is having a kid with someone else). That door being left open helped the audience accept seeing her further journey.

Angel

I mean Owen in the game eventually told her to stop too

Angel

At the beginning of the game you had no idea how long her and Owen had been together or if they were in love at one point. For all we knew they could have been fuck buddies

Guybrush Threepwood

As someone who never played the games but of course knows everything that happened in the games, I am enjoying the show so far. I really liked the "Helm's Deep"-esque sequence, also. Pretty clever, all of the things they did there to fight off that horde and also mini-boss.

Guybrush Threepwood

I disagree, I liked all 4 of them being there. THe more opinions, on this, the merrier, IMO. I just got little bit annoyed when some of them were talking over each other. Besides that, don't mind at all the 4 people.

Tim

I enjoyed the episode a lot. Only real criticism was when Tommy went invisible to avoid all the infected when drawing the big guy away. As for the changes, my guess is because they have a lot less time to tell the story they want to get all big players established as early as possible; Tommy as a prominent leader, Dina having her own relationship with Joel and then also establishing Jesse more and connecting him directly to the big event of the episode. And yes, Abby did NOT come across like a mega villain, it was the opposite to the game where as her motives are more mysterious.

Your Boi Nicky V

Sorry but I strongly disagree. Pretty sure most LSM Patrons, aka mostly hardcore PlayStation nerds, who like the show have also played the games so they'd be stifling the conversation for a small minority. As you say, you can always come back and listen. Isn't that better than forever inhibiting the convo by pretending they don't know whappens?

Your Boi Nicky V

Already enjoying this season a lot more than that awful video game 😁😜

Gabriel Baker

I just don’t think limiting speculation on future episodes of the show limits discussing the show that just came out. This is an adaptation, so discuss the released material that has been “adapted” and wait for the rest to continue the conversation. Depending on how much they spoil the show/game, I could potentially have to wait until 2029/2030 to listen to these episodes lol, I think the showrunners said they’re looking at 3 or 4 seasons

Deemac

I must be in the minority so, because I enjoyed the game, but also loved this episode and don't mind what they've changed at all. Even though I think the game was awesome, it was certainly not perfect, and there are aspects and details thant Druckmann probably realized in hindsight would work better - and Mazin would know what changes are best to make a TV adaptation work also. For example, Dina being with Joel makes sense, as she has more of a relationship with him in the show and so will have more motivation to go with Ellie on this murderous journey to Seattle. It's a TV adaptation, of course changes will have to be made to make the story make sense in a different format and shorter timeframe. As long as they hit the key notes of the game (which they just did with Joel's death), I don't mind at all if they tweak aspects on how the story gets there.

Joshua Jones

The simple response to Colin is, it’s not the game. The show is taking from the source material and adapting it. Being mad that it isn’t an exact one to one recreation is so weird to me. The game exists, play it.

Cai

He’s not mad they’re changing things. He just doesn’t like the changes they’ve made. That’s a perfectly valid opinion to have.

NUTSO JIMBO

I felt like Colin was maybe getting too hung up on relatively small differences between the show and game. I know he explained why he didn't like the changes but maybe we need to wait and see how the show actually plays out - the small changes they're making now might make a lot more sense once the season/story is done. Edit: in fairness to Colin he does say he needs to see how it all plays out.

pbsandwich_

he told her to end it once Ellie got there but in the show he says "Abby" multiple times as shes punching him which doesn't happen in the game. I dont agree with Colin that she's anymore of a villain but im just trying to understand what he meant.

pbsandwich_

you cant be right or wrong about your opinion on a show, just because someone agreed with you doesn't make them right. If anything having different opinions and POVs make these episodes way more enjoyable. If all of them liked it or hated it, it would just be bland imo. that being said, Colin and gene did take up like 90% of the talking lmao

EarthboundNuess

It’s going to piss a lot of people off when Tommy ultimately decides to stay in Jackson. He now has a kid and a huge mess to clean up in Jackson. I don’t see any logical reason for him to leave on his own to pursue the wolves. They’ve already given him every excuse not to in this adaptation.

Aaron B Vick

This is what you get when gamers review TV/Movies. There are nuances and homages to source materials when adapting story from one medium to another. The feeling you get while playing the game will not translate to the screen, so they create and use source inferences to create engaging content for the viewer. Also, I fully believe you are supposed to hate Abby and view her as the villain, a la Negan in the Walking Dead. And I think that's okay. Colin is coming at it with all the info, he hasn't separated this story from the one he already knows, and that may not be possible for him to do, which makes him a poor commentator week to week. I guess my expections for these post episode discussions were more on the value of the product as television, and less that it would be a comparison-fest. Dustin has a great sense of these differences in mediums, and he barely spoke this recording, and when he did he brought up great points.

Sam Hammond

I agree with Colin on this one, whole heartedly. I can respect other folks that enjoyed it as well but the game story is a masterpiece that didn’t need to be RNG’d as Colin put it. I hope they prove me wrong and loop it all together in a cool way. Looking forward to seeing where it goes

Dustin's furry little wheener

The game is undoubtedly superior to the series. That said, I genuinely enjoy the show as well. I love comparing it to the game, and I do think certain things were handled better in the game. Still, I thought this was a really good episode. I also agree with Dustin—Abby comes across as less of a villain in the show, which I found interesting. It was a bit surprising that Colin felt the opposite, but I get where he's coming from. In the game, it's really only Mel who shows some hesitation, whereas in the show, pretty much everyone except Abby seems more reluctant. Anyway, I thought the episode worked well. The scene with the horde happening at the same time as the whole situation with Joel and Abby—pretty good stuff, in my opinion.

Joe B

Colin nailed it here. Im never someone who criticizes adaptations as its often a story being adapted for different audiences, but the changes in this show are unnecessary and simply lessen the impactfulness of the events. 1 specific thing is how its bright out when Ellie arrives to the cabin in the show. The game makes you think Joels been getting beaten for hours and barely alive. The shows small change makes it feel like its been only 15 minutes and the pain Abby put him through wasnt nearly as brutal.

Justin

Agreed. TV needs to tell the story differently. We have 40+ hours of game to fit into 20 episodes of 2 seasons of TV. If they make Abby likable by the end of this season it would be a HUGE improvement on the game pacing.

EEWEE

Could not agree more with Colin, this episode was awful within the context of the adaptation of the game. The battle scene totally undercut and distracted from the scene with Joel. And the way Abby looks compared to her fellow Wolf allies is utterly different from the game. Like he said, it may end up being a good show on its own but this is making me skeptical that the TV show is going to address the major themes of the second game's story whatsoever.

Ryan

The differences Colin is hung up on are massive and alter not only where the story goes but the point behind certain scenes

Ryan

2 things I can’t get over: 1. Like a lot of newer ‘prestige’ TV, I think it looks like a capital one commercial. Not sure if it’s the certain cameras they’re using or the death of lighting and color in present day but everything is so clean and looks like I can see the green screen in most scenes. 2. Abby’s previously nuanced and subdued motivations have now been broken down and spoon fed to the audience to keep the Ted Lasso and Severance normies from getting confused. Same with giant unnecessary battle scene to keep people from looking at their phones.

IronLion44

My wife at the end. “Joel dies?!” Had to keep it secret for years!

SweetBabyRay

I always love these spoiler casts, but I wasn’t crazy about this one. I would have liked to hear more from Dustin and Micah to get a more balanced perspective . Also, something Dagan and Collin mentioned on the 7-hour TLOU part 2 spoiler cast was that they didn’t understand why Tommy and Joel would have given out their real names when first encountering the W.L.F. The show fixed this problem with Dina calling out for Joel in a panic not knowing that Abby was there. I think it’s wiser to suspend judgement until more of the plot points have been revealed.

Noah Bucchi

Micah likes to drop hot takes just to annoy Colin.

Big titty drinker

Death scene in the game was handled way better. Jesus Christ the Abby supervillain dialogue was so uneeded. Also the fact that Abby and Ellie’s both look 13 is making a lot of this shit not connect for me. They just look way too young.

Cole Phelps Sends Babies To Jail

Yeah I completely agree with Colin, I think all the changes they’ve changed to the story so far in season Two have negatively impacted the major story beats. Also, I’m finding the acting and writing to be really off at times, almost like it’s treating the viewer as a child and overly explaining motives.

Daddy T

My girlfriend was in shock, like right up until the last second she was expecting Jesse to come save them, was very fun to watch her reaction to it unfolding

Daddy T

Please GOD get Adi Shankar on to talk about Devil May Cry and Castlevania lmao

Brrrn39

I am completely opposite of what Colin thinks haha. I think they made abbey less of a villain than in the game and now hopefully they don’t have to put cheap tricks in to try to make you like her

YaBoyStevieJay

In what world are they making Abby more of the villain than they did in the game? She explains her motivations right away which makes the audience sympathize with her. In the game, you have no idea why she did what she did until much later in the game. You can’t do that in the show, because we’d have to wait until like season 3 to understand her motivations and by then, the audience is long gone and there is no sympathizing with Abby at all. They made the right move here and it sucks Colin didn’t like one of the greatest episodes of television ever created.

YaBoyStevieJay

You clearly have no idea what a 13 year old looks like.

YaBoyStevieJay

It’s so bizarre that they want Jackson ignored like it is in the game. TV gives them the opportunity to explore other POVs besides the 2 the game gives you. Once again Colin wants the game 1 to 1.

YaBoyStevieJay

We’ll never know Colin’s reasons because Gene ruined the discussion. Dustin specifically brings up Colin’s stupid point that Abby is more villainous in the show and Gene completely hijacked it with some other random point, so Colin moved on, and we never got Colin’s response. So Colin thinks Abby is more villainous for “reasons” and the second somebody pushed back, Gene diverted the conversation. Thinking Abby is more villainous in the TV show is straight up bizarre. She literally explains her motivations in the show while you don’t find them out until much later in the game.

Save The Game Media

I feel like Dustin and Micah barely got to talk on this episode.

Chuck Rude

Abby in the game tortured someone for no reason other than enjoyment, at length, and used medical treatment to extend their life so she could torture them longer… and Colin thinks she wasn’t posed as a villain???

Chuck Rude

The conflict of Micah not taking it too seriously and embracing changes, and Colin viewing it very seriously and clearly worried about every single change, is really funny and interesting

Surge!

I struggle to understand the narrative choices of this show, going back to season 1 as well. At great lengths, they'll expand upon something (Bill's town) to emotional effect, but then they cut and run with other decisions. The all out assault on Jackson was cool, albeit Game of Thrones vibey, but then Joel's death is checked off without nuance. Dustin nailed it, they spoon feed the audience with her reasoning, right off the bat, and then they just do it in this plain, brightly- lit scene that has none of the staying power the game had.

Kid-Organic

Dustin, Britta doesn’t do much. Look into Berkey or something similar. Eliminate way more contaminates and the filters last for year(s). Google for more info 🤜🤛

XenoNative

"It's only an adaptation and they don't have to remake the game scene for scene". That statement saved this Plus episode for me.

Chuck Rude

Okay so what purpose was served for his torture? Just enjoyment, that’s it

Gooch Gobbler

Or, heaven forbid, play two of the best games of all time

MISZCZOGRZMOT

Yes, revenge for destroying her life and dooming humanity. If someone did that to you, you might lose it, too. Also doesn't Ellie torture Nora, and do the whole 'point to the place where Abby is or I shoot you' shtick to Owen and Mel? Doesn't Ellie keep killing people 'by accident' all the way throughout (vita girl, Mel and Owen, etc)? Abby always came off as the more stable and 'close to normal' in this dog-eat-dog postapocalytpic world of the two, for me.

MISZCZOGRZMOT

The way Tommy dispatched the bloater felt very comic-booky. The scene were clickers/runners just go around him and they're just eyeing each other felt cringe, the plot-armor was strong with this one down to bloater's death. Other than that the episode was solid, and changes seem to be for the better so far.