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Marxism | The Whole Plate (Patreon)

Published:
2018-07-24 19:45:24
Edited:
2018-07-25 19:07:35
Imported:
2026-06

Content

oh boy!

Files

Marxism! | The Whole Plate Episode 9

D'ya like Jazz? Featuring (and with writing help from) ContraPoints/Natalie Wynn -https://www.youtube.com/user/ContraPoints Twitter: @ContraPoints Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/contrapoints Lindsay's Twitter: @TheLindsayEllis Lindsay's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/loosecanon

Comments

Callen

Whoa nelly this is way earlier than you usually post. Were you just really satisfied with the editing? I think I remember you saying that you usually get the video out at the end of the month to allow for maximum editing opportunity.

Callen

I see. Well I've been looking forward to this subject since you announced it.

eps

This was one crazy ride. Loved it.

Reo Scrolls

Did somebody graduate from their chosen field of study? Or did that happen ages ago and my timeline is way off XD

Joe G

It's really interesting to see the contrasting versions of the American military-industrial complex's exercise of soft power in feature films alongside the increasingly more prevalent Chinese version of same.

Robert V Aldrich

I loved this video. If you do a hundred of these on different film, social, and political theories, I don't think I'll get enough. Good job and well done!

Chris arnold

Thanks for the early release.

Jon

I love this already and all I've seen is the thumbnail of Marx as Bumblebee.

August B Denys

So much Marxism... so little time... too little Tabby... Adorno is the go to guy, but fuck him, jazz is good. Loved the video. And this last part is wholly my own wish that I have no idea of how one would fulfill, but I wish I could see how to fit Deleuze on this Plate....

Jacob Haller

I took a jazz class in college, and one of our assignments was to read one of Adorno's essays on jazz. It was quite a ride.

Daniel Waine

Truly wonderful. Surprise Marx was glorious and I really liked the way you used Adorno whilst problematising some aspects of him at the same time.

Stormbourne

laugh my ass off, Lindsay, when you started heaving sighs and going "why did I do this" I started laughing out loud. also, I love you and Contra's work together and the continuing joke at Tabby's expense.

Saira Beg

How has 20 min just passed?? I swear, Lindsay has mastered the art of time dilation.

SulaMoon

Whoa, this one is specially good Lindsay, AH <3

Andrew Henderson

Really happy to see my two favorite youtubers work together.

Ezra "Kresendoe" Curry (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-14 06:00 Really awesome video, Lindsay! I'd like to voice one concern however. If it's possible, maybe you could rewrite the bit where you call higher-ups "reptiles". I'm sure you're aware of this, but that sort of language has strong roots in antisemitism. Thank you for reading.
2018-07-24 22:36

Erich Perry

Natalie disappointedly asking for "Smash?" is a perfect moment.

Jarren Butterworth

Another good video, but I think the best part was introducing me to this "Contrapoints" channel! How have I never heard of her?!

FBH

The part where you talk about the combination of ant-capitalism in the text, with heavy product placement reminds me a lot of Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism.

Ryan Elliott

YES! I'm glad I wasn't the only one who read into that!

Cherry

Yeah, that stuck with me too. It was distracting because I really enjoyed the rest of it.

Florian Strzelecki

So now I've a bunch of wikipedia articles to read and some books too. Thanks?

Bikes, Books & Buildings

Wonderful video. In my home country of Norway, the socialist parties, and the parties previously associated with communism (a term not really used in Norwegian contemporary politics, except by its critics) is gaining a lot of support, which is really tricky for the status-quo, and traditional medi, who are noticing that the "Stalin was bad, and people died a long time ago" arguments don't really bite any longer, and coming to the defense of capitalism is getting more and more difficult if you're not going to use strictly ideological arguments. Marxism is sort of a buzz-word these days, and the ideas for sure gaining popularity with the younger demographic.

Drilling4mana

I had no idea that the reptilian conspiracy theory was an antisemitism thing. Fucking antisemites can't let us have anything fun, huh?

Morgan Allen

Marx was very astute at pointing out the structural failings of capitalism, the problem was that his suggested solutions were systematically terrible. I'm not a particular cheerleader for corporate kleptocracy, and I do think there's such a thing as a rational articulation of socialist policy, but all the reasonable versions of socialism (A) don't closely resemble his suggestions and (B) have actual economic data to back themselves up. I don't think dragging Marx back into the equation is especially helpful.

Anonymous (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-14 06:00 Circa 1985/1986, when I was a little kid, my mom told me that the Transformers cartoon was just a very long advert for the toys. At the time, I didn't believe her. How foolish I was! The realization that bayformers contains a similar advert for the military really bears repeating. It makes me wonder: How many people have entered the military after being influenced by Bay's films as children? How many of them are unable to admit to themselves, as I was, that they were influenced by the advertising? Did Bay more-or-less inception a huge chunk of the young generation into the military? Also: what are some good anti-advert films? Even better: have there been any cases of a successful bait-and-switch in this regard? (I.e., something _marketed_ as a simple popcorn movie, where the trailers make it look like it's going to have Bay-style military product placement with a recruitment tie-in, but which turns out to contain a well-constructed anti-advert that gives the viewer new reasons to consider pacifism and non-violent conflict resolution.) Can anyone recommend anything along these lines? Also: yay for Contra! (:
2018-07-25 09:28

Harold Feld

As an FCC lawyer, major props for tie in with Children's Television Rules decision. Could you please do a piece on the changing portrayal of government and civic participation in popular culture? The shift from government as a means of correcting social injustice to government as oppressor of the (usually white and male) individual is huge as part of Boomer culture. The suspicion of the people to the idea that government is capable of any good, even when taken over by the heroes, continues to reverberate in modern tv and film. West Wing is notable as an exception (although Star Trek may also qualify).

Morgan Allen

Avatar might be the closest example, off the top of my head? Military recruitment rates are actually trending down, though.

Hieronymusgoa

whats with him and jazz ^^ jesus. great video, as always!

Anders Twetman

How can you be this consistently awesome

Ethan

Katherine Bingelow's "The Hurt Locker" initially had funding from the US Hollywood Liaison office, but during production the Liaison pulled funding because the message of the film was decidedly against their best interests (the film is basically about a man who loses himself to the chaos that he can only find while he's on tour, to the point that he willingly removes himself from his civilian life in the States in favor of more time in the Middle East).

Ethan

Another home run for Lindsay. The Whole Plate is one of my favorite series that're on the channel. People have been saying since the announcement of the first Bayformers movie that the franchise is another cash grab (a lucrative one at that) but it's important to look deeper into what it MEANS that the world has so heartily accepted such an exploitative franchise dripping with product placement. Thanks for all the work you do, Lindsay.

Morgan Allen

Yeah, the Hurt Locker is a good example, now you mention it. I'm inclined to wonder what side of the fence Zero Dark Thirty ended up on now.

Gender Swap

I said "oh boy" out loud when I saw you posted this. Not in a bad way. In a Mickey Mouse way.

Troppa 33

Well done on the MakeToys Starscream-he's the best version out there.

Morgan Allen

I bumped into Peterson through his online lectures on the role of IQ in the workforce, and a lot of his lectures on personality and psychometrics are interesting and, so far as I can tell, broadly accurate. There's a certain strain of biology-denial on the left that I think may be almost as damaging as climate denial on the right (though less damaging than the everything-denial coming from bible thumpers and flat earthers on the right.) He does cherry-pick, particularly when it comes to the spin he puts on judeo-christian mythology as the ostensible lynchpin of western culture, but I'd rather be dealing with him than Dennis Prager or Kent Hovind.

Lindsay Ellis

There really isn't though - Peterson makes arguments against positions that literally no one on the left is making. Nobody on the left is saying that all hierarchies are the result of Patriarchy. Nobody on the left is saying that women have upper body strength equivalent of men. This is the insidious thing about Peterson - he posits himself as some moral paragon by making arguments against positions nobody has. No one is denying that there are biological differences between women and men. No one is denying that trans women have a Y-chromosome. And even if there was some "biology denial" on the left that was stating, I don't know, PMS is a myth fabricated by the patriarchy or something, in what universe is that even coming close to the existential danger placed upon humanity by climate change denial? That is such a false equivalence it's honestly kind of insulting. ContraPoints did a recent video where she addresses some of Peterson's more popular talking points - I hope you take the time to check it out: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqZdkkBDas" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqZdkkBDas</a>

Morgan Allen

To be clear, I've downgraded the risks of climate change largely because trends in the prices of oil vs. renewables will spell out a shift to clean energy on purely mercenary economic grounds, which is already happening. I'm not saying a global climate cataclysm wouldn't be bad, I just don't think it'll happen. There *are* people on the left who will seriously argue that there are zero biological differences between men and women. I know this because I have argued with them. They're a numerically tiny minority compared with the hordes of evangelicals, but they do have a disproportionate and pernicious influence in academia. I'm not denying that the lunatic right are a broader threat than the lunatic left, but the lunatic left does exist.

Lindsay Ellis

who are these leftist public figures who are arguing that there are zero biological differences between men and women. and I don't mean teenagers on tumblr or bots on twitter - I mean at LEAST a blue checkmark.

Morgan Allen

Oh, this was on a forum with anon-handles years ago now- I'm afraid I couldn't point you at a twitter account or anything publicly traceable. They might well have been teens on tumblr or the equivalent for all I know. But I mean, just look up Richard Dawkins quoting feminists who think that Newton's Principia was a rape manual or that E=MC^2 privileges the speed of light. There is definitely a fringe of postmodern feminism which doesn't think there's such a thing as objective laws of physics, let alone an objective endocrine system. More recently, I would say that David Pakman's piece on race and IQ from a few months back leaned very far into the 'everything is cultural bias' side of the spectrum. One can have a reasonable debate on the role of environment in determining IQ, but telling people that IQ tests are rigged by racists is about as helpful as telling the morbidly obese that their scales don't work.

Callen

He aligns with the right through his classical liberal leaning to stop the left establishment what have you from compromising convention through social academia. IMO that's the working definition of conservatism, just that he's arguably well-versed in social studies somewhat through a compromise of psychology and political history (yikes on that second part watch out). IMO he kinda falls victim to the charge he puts upon the left, that you can characterize establishment holistically through its idiosyncratic oversteps by institution or populace. For instance he's claimed that proponents Feminism have for lack of a better word a tunnel vision when they don't call out Saudi Arabia for its injustice towards women, but I distinctly remember Lindsay calling out SA on twitter. So I mean yeah college campuses are where you're gonna find these oversteps, but is it really fair to make your whole platform by overtly characterizing Feminism in such fashion? Also admittedly he makes quite a spectacle in his approach, picking his battles what not echoing Trump infiltrating the GOP, and he's nonetheless more modest (and again acknowledges that empirical social assessment is a thing that exists which is like garlic to vampires on the right).

Lindsay Ellis

dude - if you're making these broad declarations about Dawkins-quoting feminists, don't put the onus on me to "look it up". At least provide links. Who is this fringe of postmodern feminism? Who are their thought leaders? When did a prominent postmodern feminist deny objective laws of physics? Can you tell me what the basic objectives of postmodern feminism even are? You can't just blithely make these broad assumptions without at least coming in with some citations (i.e. Judith Butler said "x" in (year) in her essay on "y"). And the discussion over whether IQ testing is racially biased (a perfectly valid position as there are many studies on the topic that support the assertion) is a pretty gross thing to bring up in a discussion about biological determinism. No one is saying IQ tests are "rigged" as intentionally racist, but that IQ tests are an outdated form of intelligence testing developed overwhelmingly by white power structures, which either implicitly or explicitly punishes modes of communication more common in non-white social groups. Have we already hopped to "actually the black-white IQ disparity is genetic" now? Either way, I'm ready to tap out. I have a 45 minute video complaining about Beauty and the Beast '17 I need to finish by Monday. Again, I point you to the video Natalie did on the subject - I hope you take the time to give it a look.

Matthew Dunne

I have come for the education about the meaning and significance of Marxist discourse in postmodern analysis, and I shall stay for the prospect of Lindsay's take on that live-action Beauty and the Beast film. My own take having been something that I think can be encompassed by the fact that literally the first thing that I did on having seen it and getting home was putting on the original one.

Piper Malone

I really enjoyed this. Its always interesting seeing your stuff and a great jumping off point to look into further details. These movies are fascinating to look at as an outsider and your perspective has been really interesting. Thanks for all the hard work making this stuff. The editing in this one was really well timed for the most part and I liked the quick cuts.

Chantal Beaulne

This series just keeps digging and digging at I love it.

Callen

Felix my understanding of the Norwegian Model is that it is of the more prominent examples of Socialist Democracy utilizing a capitalist system with a very strong and effective public sector. While that kinda averts Marx's notions of inevitable collapse, what reserves have you heard about out of Norway that have contempt for capitalism?

Callen

Starship Troopers

Bikes, Books & Buildings

There is indeed a strong social-democratic heart, or spirit in Norway, but the current government coalition includes a far-right party, and there is a lot of pressure on that front now. Especially regarding privatization of previously state-owned businesses and functions. There is also the general trend, which exists everywhere in respons to the equally outspread rise in alt-right sentiment, that young people don't have any money, they can't enter the housing market, because there are no stops or checks to prevent the wealthy from purchasing all the cheap flats or houses, and renting them out for as much as they'd like. The traditional left in Norway is in deep crisis (the labour party especially), and so the only real alternative is to move futher to the left, and boy people really do. The "Red Party" is an anticapitalist, feminist, democratic-socialist party that previously people only associated with revolutionary communism, but it has grown super quickly, and it has grown up as well, showing real political muscle and skill, despite only being represented by a single delegate in parliament (Stortinget). If there was an election today, it is quite possible that this upstart, radical party could save the left and defeat the conservative coalition parties. Which would have sounded crazy even two or three years ago.

Seeshure

Awesome work as always!

Ali Bushell

Lindsay, I love you, but sometimes you just need to leave the troll in its cage to eat itself. Thanks for making me better about hating jazz though :D

Stormbourne

I believe it's a reference to Contra's capitalism videos, where at least she outright says "I want to make it clear, the reptiles are not the Jews" despite continually referring to capital/capitalist overlords as reptiles. That video was actually what made me aware of the links. Pretty nasty.

Izzie r.

WE STANNNNN THIS WAS SO GOOD

Mister Joshua

I was not prepared for this level of deep dive.

Morgan Allen

Well, I just saw Lindsay's video on youtube authenticity. I'm not sure if a certain remark was aimed at me or some other guy writing novel-length screeds on feminists ruining society, but just to cover all bases I have deleted the offending posts. I apologise if I gave the impression of being the next Ted Kaczysky.