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Star Trek: The Original Series 205-206 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-11-06 13:00:04
Edited:
2026-01-08 03:08:01
Imported:
2026-06
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GAB

To answer your question regarding the size of the NCC-1701 Enterprise, according to the Franz Joseph Designs (1975). Star Trek Blueprints: General Plans, Constitution Class, U.S.S. Enterprise: its mass is 190,000 metric tons (210,000 short tons), and its length is 288.6 metres (947 ft). For comparison, the carrier CVN-65 USS Enterprise's displacement was 86,000 metric tons (94,781 short tons), and its length was 342 metres (1,123 ft). The crew complement was 4,600. It was decommissioned in 2017.

Brazilian_Rebel

Some suggestions to add to the next poll: The Cell The Walk of Shame GOOD BOYS The Heat & The Butterfly Effect

HansD

Quick question for George: What happened to watching Blue Eye Samurai? Some time ago you mentioned looking forward to it.

Cinebinge
>>154502709

Oh it's still in backlog for polls. But there are other short shows that's been in queue for longer so they get into polls first.

WayneC

Interesting that Commodore is not a US Navy rank, but it is for the Royal Navy, Royal Australian Navy and Royal Canadian Navy, and others.

Rupert Purcat

Defiantly a highlight of my week. Really enjoy how invested you both get in the stories as well.

dc

The Doomsday Machine is one of my favorites in the series. The music is great, William Windom turns in a terrific performance as Decker, and it's so suspenseful. Definitely a highlight, and I'm glad you two enjoyed it.

WayneC

Reading a bit more, the Royal Navy didn't have a rank of Commodore ntil 1997, but the term was used as a title for the senior officer in a fleet of at least two ships. The USN used the title Commodore in the same way, but it was never made a rank (the USN equivalent to an RN Commodore is Rear Admiral (lower half). As Decker was in charge of a fleet of one vessel, Star Fleet must have adopted Commodore as a rank. Either way, Decker was the senior officer, so would have assumed command when he boarded The Enterprise. Though I would have expected him to be subject to a medical examination befoe doing so.

Brandon

I think Doomsday Machine is the first episode of Trek to do something that kind of becomes a long-standing Trek tradition. I originally said more, but didn't want to be roasted for possible spoilers although I didn't spoil anything specific. 😆 I listen to a podcast where they devote an entire episode for each episode of Trek in production order (they're almost at the point where TNG and DS9 begin to intersect). They've mentioned that there's a series of books that explores what happened after Kirk goes somewhere, makes swooping changes to a culture and then fucks off. I've never watched The Lower Decks, but I think they've made a lot of jokes about the stuff that went on in TOS as well.

Monica Alarcon

Poor commodore Decker, I hope what happened to him (meeting a huge planet destroying machine) doesn't run in the family...

Kinokind

One of the best episodes, in my opinion. This is what you get when you have a great sci-fi writer like Spinrad and a great actor like William Windom. Windom is a stellar example of a fine working actor who made a respectable career of it. Did you remember him as the pencil-chewing lawyer in "To Kill a Mockingbird"?

Nicholas Bielik

Two points about "The Apple." Kirk was on shaky ground with the Prime Directive here, but he has some wiggle room though for two reasons. The Prime Directive is primarily applied to pre-Warp cultures that have not established any sort of contact with other spacefaring civilizations as yet. However, while it seems like the Prime Directive should be in full force here, the people of Gamma Trianguli VI have already been interfered with by a higher technology culture--so Kirk could argue that the damage has already been done. Secondarily, Vaal really gave Kirk no choice here. It was either remove Vaal or allow the ship and his crew to be killed. That's not much of choice. The episode does leave us wondering whether this was really a good thing for the people. Kirk does say they are going to help them, so I assume they are not just abandoning them to die.

Sergio Meira

And I'll officially suggest The Good Place for your consideration! As for the prime directive... like many Star Trek concepts, it is still a bit undefined in TOS, sometimes showing up and sometimes not showing up as the writers were still not sure of what it was for and how it fit in the universe, so don't expect a lot of consistency in it. (The same thing with the whole United Federation of Planets, which sometimes looks like one supranational state, sometimes like the United Nations, and sometimes like neither...) It's only in TNG that it becomes a more reliable, well-defined concept.

REDR58
>>154510634

Speaking of commodores and other ranks, did you know that in the US Navy the highest possible rank is “Admiral of the Navy” and that rank has only ever been held by George Dewey. Commodore Dewey, who led the US Navy’s Asiatic Squadron at the Battle of Manila Bay during the Spanish-American War, was promoted to Admiral of the Navy in 1899, after the war: “Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President is hereby authorized to appoint, by selection and promotion, an Admiral of the Navy, who shall not be placed upon the retired list except upon his own application; and whenever such office shall be vacated by death or otherwise the office shall cease to exist. Approved, March 2, 1899.” Dewey’s flagship from which he led the battle, the Protected Cruiser Olympia, still exists and can be visited at Philadelphia. The ship was built from 1891-1892 and was in commission from 1895-1899, 1902-1906 and finally from 1916-1922. Olympia is the oldest steel warship afloat in the world. I’ve been fortunate to visit her a number of times. https://www.phillyseaport.org/cruiser-olympia/

Sergio Meira

Simone: 'What determines which shirt someone wears?' From what I understand, at this point rules were still a bit fluid, so you can find exceptions. Again, it's in TNG that we have more consistent rules for what kind of specialists wear what kind of shirt.

SpankTheMonk
>>154527813

Yeah it was a conundrum. And episodes like this provide great fertile ground for future exploration. The other issue is the fact that episodes are almost always episodic and it usually requires less melancholy so we can get on with things. And a good laugh at the end of an episode. Once sci-fi on tv has more license to challenge the viewers like the Twilight Zone and Outer Limits, this option becomes more normative for other shows.

Thomas Yanez

Sometimes I really wish that George would force Simone to finish her thoughts. Not letting her get away with the "... yeah" after she peters out, and then stepping in to continue the discussion.

Thomas Yanez

Speaking of Star Trek tropes (all the "red shirt" talk)... I thought Shatner was especially "Kirk-y" in "The Apple". So dramatic.

3dbadboy1

Lol as far as Kirk goes, the design of it was dependent on his weight lol.

3dbadboy1

Lol when I first watched this as a kid in the 60s and Scotty pushed the button to activate the overload, I thought he was setting it off and I yelled "No, wait, STOP!!!", lol.

Gaius Frakking Baltar

George's reference to 'Moby Dick' was quite perceptive, since William Windom himself made the same connection. Windom also said that he was paying homage to actor Humphrey Bogart with his performance as Commodore Decker. "I thought it was worthwhile to show us something of that character -- him trying to maintain his dignity, and his authority, but with guarded expressions. So I needed something for the audience to see that could convey that not all was as right as he wanted the others to believe. And I was thinking The Caine Mutiny." A famous aspect of Bogart's performance as the unhinged Captain Queeg in that movie was his compulsive manipulation of ball bearings under stress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlV3oQ3pLA0

Simone's Coconut Squire

My view on The Apple is that it's a product of the 60s, and it's trying to send the very establishment message of "Hey, this hippie stuff SOUNDS great, but you really need to get a job and work hard to be happy."

Simone's Coconut Squire

I feel like the entire TOS really plays fast and loose with the prime directive, only really trotting it out when it's convenient to create drama. I think TNG definitely does a better job of keeping it central to the writing and the themes.

Alan Kobb

In a Season 1 comment, I mentioned the concept of the "bottle episode", which was invented by Gene Roddenberry. The Doomsday Machine was a good example of one of these. They literally used an old model of the Enterprise for the Constellation, and used a heat gun to "destroy" it. The Doomsday machine was a wind-sock dipped in cement. All of the sets were standard Enterprise sets, and most of the special effects were simple animation. Even the director, Matt Daniels did his part. He won $500 in a bet that he could finish shooting in just 5 days, saving thousands of dollars. An episode like this can easily pay for the additional expenses for an episode like Amok Time. Interestingly, the writer of the episode did not like the model of the Doomsday machine, having pictured something bristling with weaponry, but a lot of viewers find this model quite terrifying on television because it's plain design mimics it's machine-like zombie-ness. The way I see it, if you're inventing a machine that is designed to make sure that nobody survives seeing it, then it really doesn't matter what it looks like. As for the story, this type of story was quite common in 1960s Cold War fiction.

SpankTheMonk

I love how we can see imbedded in the stories how the writers challenge the current culture. In Doomsday it aligns to nuclear proliferation and the Armageddon aspect.

Robert Elliott

Always like The Apple but really love the Doomsday Machine. The actor William Windom as Commodore Decker was exceptional and brought a gravitas to the episode. I’m glad you have decided to continue watching TOS, I can tell by watching you both enjoy this show. Sometimes they are cheesy but I love them. I really remember them from syndication, it always playing on one channel or another. My friends and I had seen them so much by the time we hit High School we would see who could guess which episode with just the first few seconds of the episode. We would say ah the one with the Gorn! LOL. Best wishes Robert

algi

Fun fact: In 1961 (the year the Soviets blew up the 50 megaton Tsar Bomba) Edward Teller was apparently working on a thousand megaton nuclear bomb and a 10 thousand megaton nuclear bomb. It was shut down because explosions that big are impractical.

SuicuneSol

The Doomsday Machine is quite a bit larger than the Enterprise. The new CG effects show ship scale much, much better. In fact, the redone effects alone are well worth watching for this episode.

Ron

I would say that The Apple was subpar episode, but The Doomsday Machine is one of my favorites! TDM is also notable for me as it's the first episode I ever saw. It was on commercial tv during the summer after 3rd grade. I remember running outside afterwards try to explain this really cool show I just saw.

Kurt Hockenbury

He was beamed back at 41 minutes, when Kirk ordered the Damage Control party to be beamed back aboard, everyone but him and Scott.

Theadora

"The Doomsday Machine": the largest collection of Feinbergers in the galaxy! Named for Irving R Feinberg, the property master of Star Trek and past master of repurposing found odds and ends as futuristic devices. In particular, pay close attention when Dr McCoy is operating; his "laser scalpels" are salt shakers...

Actuarial Lurker

I'm such a Trek Nerd that I know practically every line of TOS, DS9, Voyager, and yes Enterprise, TNG not so much- it provides comfort if you want to veg out

Actuarial Lurker

An episode within the Enterprise prequel shows the Prime Directive being invented and one episode is rather brutal in what the crew permits to happen rather than interfere

Theadora

awww, you're welcome! Thank you for replying!

Shadows of Archonia

Regarding the redshirt discussion at the beginning, this is from the Wikipedia article on the term "redshirt." "Of the 55 crew members killed in the series, twenty-four were wearing red shirts, compared to fifteen who had unconfirmed shirt colors, nine in gold shirts, and seven in blue shirts."

REDR58
>>154499114

I have been aboard several retired US Navy museum ships and the first thing I noticed is how small the bridges of those ships are compared to a bridge on the TOS enterprise and particularly the TNG enterprise. Granted those are naval vessels designed for war, and of course, crew comfort is not exactly paramount, but still. Although I wonder if the bridges on naval vessels are not really comparable to the bridge seen in the fictional Enterprises and other ships like them. The sci-fi Enterprises’ bridges are something more analogous to the “combat information center” seen on US Navy ships, a relatively larger room with lots of displays and consoles. But I suppose it depends on the type of ship as well. I know that the Battleship New Jersey has a very small bridge and the separate, multi-level armored citadel where one would go to navigate and perform other essential tasks in middle of battle is downright tiny. Both of those spaces have direct vision to the outside where the combat information center on New Jersey is located more deeply inside the ship and has no direct view to the outside via viewports and the like.

Robert Evans

latitude variation in temp is cause by axial tilt of the Earth. If a planet had no axial tilt then sunlight would fall evenly from north to soith and there would be no seasons

Nabikon

Funny you should mention Kirk's face melting, since Shatner would later be in a movie called The Devil's Rain, where his face melts

michael denny

the prime directive does not apply to a civ that is already being fucked with

Marcus Hicks

If you get a chance, read the TNG novel Vendetta. It gives a wonderful explanation for the purpose of The Doomsday Machine.

Angela D. Mitchell

"Doomsday Machine" was a surprisingly complex look at a guy whose PTSD destroyed him in front of our eyes. Character actor William Windom was also absolutely terrific as Commodore Decker.