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Star Trek TNG: 121-122 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-08-13 13:00:01
Edited:
2026-01-08 02:36:04
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Episodes: The Arsenal of Freedom, Symbiosis

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Comments

Cory Garron

Just waiting for my Star Trek Communicator to arrive today!

gfixler

Yay! Star Trek da−only two episodes? 😭 Man, I feel like I just failed the Star Fleet Academy entrance exam, but also yay, Star Trek Day!

gfixler

The automated message featured Vincent Schiavelli, who was also the subway ghost in Ghost, who taught Swayze how to pick up a penny. He was in a whole bunch of other random things, too.

gfixler

Ha, they didn't react to the Lollipop. Riker says "it's a good ship." I wonder if George and Simone know that old Shirley Temple classic, from the movie Bright Eyes (1934). I don't think George will be able to handle the cringiness/second hand embarrassment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLLSqpYyPD8

Cory Garron

He was also Uncle Enos in Buffy's "Suprise/Innocence" episodes. "WAS IT GOOD FOR YOU TOO?" Was written in his blood.

Cory Garron

Good call Simone, that chief engineer was the vampire in the Angel series premiere. I wouldn't have been able to place his familiar face.

JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy

Haha while on the topic of “butt plug drones” I do recall from diving into TNG production diaries back in the day that those drones were crafted by the VFX supervisor using a combo of egg toys, a pantyhose container and a shampoo/conditioner bottle then painted over. I mean whatever works, right? Hosiery gets it done - weird sentence reading that back lol

gfixler

I say, and have heard formidable both ways. For-MID-uh-bul, and FORM-ih-dih-bul, depending on mood and situation. I think if I'm stressing it, I lean on the former, and if it's part of a noun phrase, I lean more toward the latter, but I'm not sure. It could be that I'm older, and maybe the latter is more common in the past? When I'm curious about pronunciation, I turn to Youglish: https://youglish.com/pronounce/formidable/english You can hit the dark blue ⏯️ button to skip to the next track. I listened to about 20, just now, and both versions were represented, and it felt like every old person was stressing the FORM part.

Robert Gendron

It's cliche to say that an episode got more relevant over time since the episodes usually reflect something going on in society at the time or in our history, but it is kinda amazing that 122 was from the 80s about drugs in that time, but ends up exactly showing the dangers of doctors and the pharmaceutical industry pushing painkillers in the late 90s and the resulting Oxycontin/Opioid epidemic that we're still experiencing the effects of. Also, generally the Prime Directive is for pre-warp civilizations. So earth for example now has space travel, but not warp travel, so the Federation wouldn't interfere with our development. Once a civilization has warp travel, then they can leave their solar system and interactions with other civilizations is inevitable. So that's why the Prime Directive applies to these two civilizations within one system.

gfixler

Same. I've known it was Shirley, but all my life I've just known it from other sources. Also born in the 70s.

Dan

Re the "ship's therapist". When the show was on I always thought it was silly that a "ship's councilor" was a bridge officer. However, if you think of Troi as an empath intelligence gatherer for conflict, negotiations, etc there but justified as "ship's councilor" to better fit with the Federation's peaceful, above-board image then it makes a lot more sense. So that's my personal head-canon.

gfixler

I actually agree with Picard's choice, because we're talking about full, planetary collapse. The Federation can't just step in and destroy a planet that's worked a particular way for 200+ years, even if they are evil. It would be like saying earth is evil, so no one is allowed to have or drive automobiles anymore. It would crater earth's production, commerce, movement, and probably kill millions, maybe billions, and it would be the worst for the poorest people, with the least means of coping with sudden, massive change. Just got to the end, and George basically said what I said above. Also, TNG (and to an extent, TOS) suffers from the need to visit planets, so everything is always planetary in scale. On earth, things are nation-based, typically, either between two nations, or factions within a nation. In Star Trek, it's always one half of a planet vs the other, or two planets with some issue, and it can distort understanding, like we think "just tell them the drug is a lie!" and you don't think about the fact that it's like a planet full of people who would be thrown into pure turmoil, not just some small tribe somewhere.

GAB

Regarding "Symbiosis", perhaps there is some similarity in the scenario to the Opium Wars (1839-42 and 1856-60). Methadone has been used as a treatment for heroin and other opioid addition since the 1960s. Picard seemed to abandon the two Brekkans on Omara so it would be in their interest to admit the truth and help the Omarans overcome their addiction like their planet Brekka did long ago. Picard did the best he could given the Prime Directive as the writer (Robert Lewin) interpreted it. The "just say no" campaign was being propagandised by the US First Lady Nany Reagan around 1987. The episode itself is not well regarded because of the all too heavy-handed messaging.

Thomas Larsen

Simone strengths: hearing a minute difference in com badge activation sound. weaknesses: saying space at the right time

Superpotroast

Same, that line seemed familiar, but couldn't place it..I was thinking I was just actually remembering something about that episode..Cool to know it's from something else..

Superpotroast

The Prime Directive can get a bit messy in TNG, but if you recall just an episode or two back, Picard was being 'investigated' by that Admiral, and some of the line of questioning from that aide guy was about some of Picard's possible interfering in other societies.. It's one of the main differences between the Star Trek and Stargate franchises..Is that Star Trek tries not to interfere and force Earth values on other planets, and in Stargate they go to other planets and just 'AMERICA knows best' everywhere..

David N

Thanks for the great content guys but I feel like i'm being spoiled. Every time I open another watch along from patreon it takes my brain a few moments to realize why its only the commentary playing. The new site is so convinient that I feel like I cant ever go back to manual sync and hunting down copies of things. Love you guys, keep it up.

gfixler

By the way, as someone who hates coffee, coffee is the same exact thing. You're all a bunch of drug addicts to me. Whole regions of the planet spend enormous effort and money on creating and shipping all over the world this thing you could just skip, like I always have. I don't get up and think "I have to have my coffee, or I can't even function!" That's a made-up thing that [Googles...] 73% of Americans get themselves addicted to, and drink daily (and it's a staggering 93%, if you go up to at least once a week!). Think of all the Dunkin Donuts, all the diners, all the Tim Horton's, all the Starbucks, all the artisanal coffee shop whatevers, all the college kids putting themselves through college as baristas... I remember thinking about this a bit more than 20 years ago, after the secretary at my then company made a big deal about how great her cup of coffee was one morning. I suddenly had a question, and asked: "Did you like coffee when you first tried it?" She didn't, at all. She thought it was awful, but wanted to hang out with people who drank it. So then I went person to person in our 30-40-person company, and literally everyone who drank coffee had the same story, save maybe one weirdo. They had to learn to like it, because it was awful for a while when they started. I was gobsmacked. It was all peer pressure, and a wish to feel included. And I'm not much better, because my coffee is Diet Coke. I have one in front of me right now, at 8:30 a.m. It's my second of the morning so far 😆 I didn't like it when I first tried it as a kid. I thought it was awful. The only thing I have going for me is that no one talked me into it, and it wasn't for anything resembling peer pressure. Everyone tried to talk me out of it, in fact, and they still do, decades later. I'm weird, though; peer pressure has always worked in reverse on me. Whatever everyone's doing, I want no part of, and if no one's doing it, I might get curious and dive in. Maybe I need to feel special... I was a bit addicted to sugary sodas after college, so I forced myself to switch to diet, and over time became happily addicted. Anyway... Imagine you've taken a drug a certain way every day of your life, and everyone you know has, too, like coffee, and it makes you feel good again. Take that away, and it's like taking away a ritual that the entire culture has revolved around. Hey China, it turns out tea is from an evil source, so no more tea, and definitely no more traditional Chinese tea ceremonies. It would be insanity of the highest order. People would be double mad: one, at the providers for swindling them, and two, at you, for taking away this thing they've always associated with goodness, health, healing, and happiness.

Robert Cooper

"I can't see anything through here. There's too many potted plants on the stage "

TomGas2025

Did you recognize in zhe secind episode one of the Brekkans? He played in Star Trek 2 Khans right hand man...just FYI. 😁

Mickael Duncan

So you guys got a little hung up on not really understanding the Prime Directive, and that it is two different policies aimed towards the same end: To not interfere with the development of independent civilizations. The first policy is to not contact or influence civilizations that have not yet developed warp technology. This is the simple one, you let the planet grow at their own pace and power, so as not to influence their standing in the galactic structure once they join it. Early on in the episode Geordi says that they were close to warp capable when they were last observed, a long time ago, so we can say that this prong of the Prime Directive can be set aside. The second, and more complicated policy is to not interfere with the internal workings/politics of an independent civilization. So in short, do not impose Federation values upon those not in the federation, and this is the one that Picard was forced to follow. And he WAS forced, he did not make a choice. The choice he almost made was to repair the ships, which at the time he made that choice he was not aware of political implications of doing so, prolonging the exploitation of one planet by the other. And despite there being two planets, they have long been allies, possible being of the same origin, so they do make up one civilization. It was when the one group made it clear that they were aware it was just a narcotic (the other shoe dropped) that Picard's hands were tied. If both sides thought it was just a plague cure then he could have corrected their mistake, but when it because clear that everything was working as the society intended, the Prime Directive kicked in. Not the best ending, but probably the "right" ending.

Alan Pownall

The Prime Directive comes in two flavours. 1. No contact with pre warp civilisations. 2.No interference with internal matters of a non Federation species. The Prime Directive is both an answer to the trolley problem, i.e. do nothing and you are morally clean; and it is also a refutation of interventionism - any alteration of another culture is evil. The interventionism bit is probably a reaction to US Imperialism around the world and more general colonialism. I don't really agree with an absolute view of the prime directive but for Picard this is essentially what he is sworn to do as an officer in Starfleet, he could have involved himself but he is then on the hook for an entire planets worth of people who have no industry. With that said he and other Starfleet captains will break the prime directive on occasion.

Mastervodo

So happy we are back to Ssssssspace... fuck! Wednesdays!

Dan

Oh, just noticed that T'Jon is also Kirk's son from The Wrath of Khan.

Dan

And T'Jon is Kirk's son from the same film.

TomGas2025

Oooh riiight...the voice sounded so familiar...I thought at that time the actor had already passed away.

DonkyDave

Damn the set in the first episode of the "heavily forested planet" looks like complete ass lol

Joe Stacey (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 No, the rules weren't changed mid-episode in Symbiosis. You can argue the morality of the Prime Directive, but Picard applied it correctly and consistantly at the end. The consequences to the two societies are due to their own actions and because the Federation didn't interfere.
2025-08-13 17:05

Chase Lonnergan

Janeway would've interfered. And she would have done it without violating the Prime Directive in an obvious way. Because she was the best captain.

@Foodmancing

I think Picard made the best possible choice in Symbiosis. The only way either civilization survives now is to work together. Any other choice leaves both civilizations dependent on the federation. What Picard chooses is to let things play out as close to how they would have if the enterprise had never arrived. The shuttles are failing. The Brekkians don’t have space travel. The Onnarans are too doped up to fix their shuttles. Only way for brekkians to save their civilization is to come clean to the onnarans. Onnarans will likely be able to rebuild even after whatever losses they suffer but if the Brekkians come clean the majority of the suffering can be avoided while they find a way to ween the Onnarans off the drug

Dioskur (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-27 21:00 George you are making one big mistake when thinking about the Prime Directive: It is not ment to lead to the best ending. Its just "don't play god". There are many situations where following the PD allows great damage to happen to a planet. That is ok for the federation. Don't play god. Keep out. And the thing about "but they allready did interfere". Yeah, and? They didn't know. It was stated they didn't interact for 200 years. So they offered immediate help, realized that they can't do more without violating the PD and flew away. So whats the problem you see? That they didnt decide whos good or bad or decide the fate of two societies? No they didn't. They picked them up, flew them home, beamed them down and left. BTW: No out of character here. Just a switch of perspective that you didnt pick up on. New info lead to a change of mind twice
2025-08-13 18:16

Kev Longley

The prime directive isn't always about "natural development", its about not interfering in another culture. Rescuing a ship in distress is not typically interfering in a culture. But once Picard understood the true nature of the situation, it became clear that doing anything to disrupt this relationship between two worlds is not acceptable. Had the Onarans understood the nature of their situation and made a request to help to the Federation, that would be different, but would probably still require someone above Picard to weigh in and decide if the Federation could provide aid. Much like the request for help fixing their ships. It's a direct call for help that Starfleet can answer, but once Picard understood what fixing their ships means, he was within his right to refuse help... for the greater good.

Jomero

When Beverly started talking about her grandmother, all I could think of is, "Yeah, she also had some interesting secrets of her own." And that's all I'll say.

Khan1001

ATTENTION STAR TREK FANS! If anyone is interested, here is a link to download AI UPSCALED VERSIONS OF DS9 & VOYAGER Via torrent https://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/1gZDPoSwVI9FPPaf90WC5v2vp6HwfvUlX They are better than the SD 480p versions, I wish Paramount would pull their finger out and just remaster DS9 & Voyager like they did with TNG, such a shame they haven't, anyway, the AI Upscaled versions are pretty good, I downloaded both and everything is a lot sharper and you can see more detail etc, it just makes for a better viewing experience than the crappy, tiny 480p resolution. Voyager is 1080p & DS9 is 4K, you will need a lot of space though, maybe download 1 season of each and see for yourselves if you want to get the rest, availability and seeding is pretty fast (I downloaded everything a couple days ago) but don't know how long that will last!

Eversharpe

"Space: Fuck My Life" is Picard's autobiography title. "Riker just wants to fuck Picard so bad" is one of the quotes on the back cover.

Paul McBryde

This is how I see it: Option A: no interference. freighter destroyed, all crew die, we leave, admirals are happy. Option B: Picard's choice: save freighter, cargo & crew beamed back down to planet, we leave, their other ships break down as they would have anyway. Option C: tell them the truth: big interference, we leave, chaos likely ensues, Option D: give them Crusher's medicine: big interference, we leave, chaos likely ensues. Option E: the Kirk choice: destroy fellicium, arrest the dealers, give inspirational speech to the addicts, we leave, chaos ensues, 15 years later they come back to get revenge on Kirk.

DasBigUn

oooo, that is some strong language there...but lol

Franklin Silberzahn

The way I see it, is that in the first case Picard was responding to an emergency situation, when he rescued the people from the freighter. After that, he noted that once the Brekkians decided to give the felicium to the Ornarans, he had other option. He couldn't interfere in the relations between the two planets, couldn't allow Beveryly to give them a substitute (unless they asked for that help), but he could decide not to give the coils to the Ornarans, since that was not an emergency situation.

WastedPo

George, you're right to have questions about the Prime Directive. It's inconsistently presented on this show, and oftentimes the characters will break it without the writers even seemingly aware that they've broken it. And other times the characters will uphold it, for supposedly noble purposes, but it makes no sense in terms of ethics. Even if the characters consistently adhered to it (which they don't), the directive itself is deeply flawed in that it's supposedly this "one size fits all" edict, without any room for nuance.

Simone's Coconut Squire

I can't believe I JUST caught the "Lollipop, it's a good ship" joke. #ShirleyTemple

JD Nevesytrof

I know I've said this before, but the Prime Directive in early TNG is completely screwed up. Once it applies to only PRE-WARP societies who can't figure out things on their own, it makes much more sense.

Lintrinsic

Probably not the most popular opinion but I've always had a soft spot for the Arsenal of Freedom. It may not be the most scintillating plot or have a great twist but they cram so much into one episode. People flying arse over end, shootouts with drones, space battles, Data jumping down the hole, Geordi in command, Troi being useful for once, separating the ship, an arsehole from engineering, Bev's gran, a Shirley Temple reference. To me it's like a sampler of things I love about Star Trek, and you don't need any other context to enjoy it.

Ron

Also, David Soul played, "Makora", in "The Apple" (TOS S2E5) who was one of the villagers. His big scene was the one where he (along with a female villager) witness Chekov and Yeoman Landon kiss. "I do not understand. What is to be gained? It is not a dance. It gathers no food. It does not serve Vaal. But it did seem as though it was... pleasant to them."

GDF

The Prime Directive is to do with Pre-Warp Civilization's and also ones that don't have faster than light radio, so if you're space travelling but are not going Faster Than Light, then it would still apply. So at the moment the Federation would leave Earth alone because although we can go the Mars and have sent probes, we can't use Warp Travel. You do have to look at the possible ramifications of what could happen if Picard told them. If Picard told them for example, maybe the Ormarans would be so angry at being lied though that they go to Brekka and genocide them in a war.

Lintrinsic

Over the years I've thought a lot about the Prime Directive and my theory is Starfleet expects officers to strive for it, but realise it's often unattainable. I wouldn't call it more of a guideline than a rule, but I think it's a rule you need to have significant justification in your back pocket to break. At this point it's a bit of an unclear mess, and it stays that way for a while because they use it to contrive moral dilemmas but they never really make the actual rule clear. Basically, they have an obligation to answer distress calls and render "humanitarian aid" up to a point, but they aren't supposed to interfere with the development of pre-warp cultures, or how other cultures conduct their laws etc.

Lex Kuzma

George, the thing you're missing about Picard's choices regarding the prime directive is the unknown. You think you know what will happen if you interfere, or of you don't, but that's only a guess. The other thing to keep in mind is that the prime directive typically only applies to altering the course of a civilization, so rescuing the people on the doomed freighter isn't an issue, but providing ship parts they wouldn't have been able to make or install themselves definitely counts as interfering. Picard is definitely engaging in a bit of malicious compliance and the result very likely is that both civilizations collapse into chaos and need to rebuild from nothing. But maybe not. Maybe, as Simone said, they will figure out a way to work together - all the more likely because the two negotiators from Brekkia are stuck on the wrong planet and in a position to learn some harsh lessons. George is approaching this from a utilitarian perspective, but the problem with utilitarian philosophy is that it doesn't draw boundaries of responsibility. Maximizing everyone's happiness can lead you to be responsible for everyone. Drawing a line around where your own responsibility ends and where others' begins is one way of dealing with that. If the Enterprise had made the non-addictive replacement for the drug, maybe the only result is that the Brekkians get genocided in revenge, and now the Enterprise is responsible for that. By interfering, you take on the responsibility for what follows. By choosing not to interfere, you stay out of the affairs of other civilizations and leave them to solve their own problems. Given that you don't know what the outcomes of any choice will be, backing away and restricting yourself to non-interference is a way of guarding against dangerous overreach.

droodly

Symbiosis: So basically the complaint is Picard was a big meanie? :P I don't see how the rules changed. Within this episode Picard seemed consistent to me.

AVATAR-X

To clarify. Had the Enterprise not heard the distress signal - the freighter would have been lost, the drug would have been lost, and everyone on-board would be dead. Both planets would have been in the same situations as they are now, aside from 4 more people being alive, and the withdrawal happening a little later (when this one shipment would have run out). The enterprise was obligated to answer the distress call (of a space-faring civilization), so they did. They could mediate the dispute, if that's what both parties wanted. Picard could not make a unilateral decision that would alter the course of the two species beyond their current/natural course. Again, in this case, doing nothing is ultimately the same as never having been involved in the first place.

Simone's Coconut Squire

Re: Symbiosis and the Prime Directive. Picard chose the best possible choice according to the prime directive. Basically, what would have happened if the Federation never showed up? The addicts' ships would have all fallen apart halting trade, forcing them into withdrawl from which point both sides would have to rebuild their societies. What Picards decisions basically led to this exact outcome so he really did reset the situation to what it would have been if the Federation never showed up. The Prime Directive applies to any society that does not possess INTERSTELLAR travel. From this we can extrapolate that the Federation kind of looks at a star system as a unit, so societies that develop on different planets in the same system would kind of be viewed as a single ecosystem I guess?

Ian Tellam

I don't think the problem in Symbiosis was the decision Picard makes, but that it does a poor job at explaining that it's the only really viable course of action for Picard. Firstly, to clarify, the non-interference protocol, and joining the federation, is based on the capability of the civilisation to develop warp travel for themselves. Warp capability is the factor which defines whether you can join the Federation. Neither of these planets had warp capability and so would fall under the remit of the Prime Directive until they do. They had short range travel between each other only and because they're in the same system and have been in long term contact with one another they would be considered as one entity for the purposes of the Prime Directive. The planets had already been contacted previously 200 years ago, which would place this event prior to the establishment of the Prime Directive. In fact, although it seems buried in the episode, there is an implication that it was this initial careless contact that may have lead to whole situation in the first place as that and the 'plague' emerged at a similar time. whatever happened when they were first contacted may have been construed as interference by current standards, but in any case it is no longer a 'First Contact' situation. First Contact is a separate protocol to the Prime Directive, with its own set of rules. Making a decision to rescue a crew of an already contacted species wouldn't normally be considered something which would effect the development of a whole civilisation. The Prime Directive can never really be interpreted in the real world as absolute zero interference when it's dealing with civilisations that have already had First Contact. In practice it's a policy of minimum interference in the development of a civilisation. Picard's decision was probably the correct one - largely from the Federation's perspective. If the Ornarians had been weaned off the drug by the Federation, then the Federation would have been likely responsible for the economic and societal collapse of the Brekkians - unless they also helped them industrially, at which point the Federation is far beyond minimum interference as they are now knee deep in long-term assisting one or both civilisations. Given the nature of the Brekkians deceit, it isn't inconceivable that it could also initiate a war of retribution from the Ornarians which would have now been enabled by the Federation, not just for sharing the knowledge but because the coils for their space ships were also supplied by the Federation. There is no other real choice for Picard, as a Starfleet captain, other than to return things to as close as possible to how they were before he found them, leave and let things take their course. It's not about the best way to break an addiction, it's about damage limitation from the Federation's perspective once they become aware of the situation. I think the point of the episode was to show that the Prime Directive doesn't always lead to happy outcomes, but it feels like political pressure prevalent in TV at the time meant that given the subject matter the Wesley chat had to be inserted in there awkwardly. Otherwise I think the concept is pretty solid and I think Picard's interpretation of the Prime Directive is easily defensible.

Danny Bryant

Wow, the after episode chat for Symbiosis!! I know the filming schedule probably won't permit it but, I would pay for a Patreon tier that had conference call like meetings with you guys and Patrons to discuss episodes. There is so much not spoiler detail that I would love to share around the "Prime Directive" conversation. I would also love to hear others takes on how they might do it different than Picard is this scenario.

Joel

There is a VERY rarely used Blue Alert, which pertains to life support system emergencies, it came up 3? times in the entire franchise IIRC

Watchout4J.Who

It's important to keep in mind for both the Onarans and Brekkians, we only know two of each civilization, to pass any kind of judgement on all Onarans base on the behaviour of their sales reps is unfair at the least. The average joe is probably working a job that's in some way connected to the production of the drug but he could just be a mechanic that fixes the tractors in the fields, he's got no career options. And neither society is collapsing tomorrow and both have every incentive to cooperate more. The Prime Directive is more about not dragging the Federation into quagmires in this phase of the writing, similar to US policies of isolationism. Save refugees, yes, but no invasions and regime changes on their behalf until they have to relearn that lesson decades later, like Afghanistan.

WastedPo

I honestly think Arsenal of Freedom is one of the best episodes of Season 1. The point really isn't the stuff with the weaponry they were facing. That premise was just an excuse to get the storylines of Geordi being in command and the Beverly/Picard stuff.

Patrick - Excelsior

Picard's resolution conforms to the Essence of the Prime Directive, Non Interference. By not fixing the ships, both planets are in the same condition they would have been if the Enterprise had never shown up. We also don't know how strong the addiction is. With the planet believing the drug was necessary to live, it would keep them taking it. So its possible in a week they would be fine. And if Crusher felt that strongly about it, she could have slipped them a note. In the area of medicine and caring for the sick, the Chief Medical Officer can override the Captain. The addicted Captain, T'Jon, was played by Merritt Butrick who also played Dr. David Marcus, son of James Kirk in Wrath of Kahn. He died at the young age of 29 from toxoplasmosis, complicated by an AIDS infection.

dasgrove

I think a lot of the issues of Symbiosis lies in the ‘90s view of addiction (at least in the US). Still a lot of ‘blame the victim’ awash in understanding and treatment. Like TOS, TNG is a product of its time.

Basil Hazzard

And Sobi the male drug dealer was played ny Judson Scott who was also is Wrath of Khan as Khan's first lieutenant.

Paul Peavler

It’s funny, Star Trek has a lot of ships (and I don’t mean starships). It’s kind of known for shipping fandom. Many would argue that Spirk was the original fandom ship - for anything, ever. And yet, I have to say Simone, the Riker-Picard ship is not one you hear about very often.

Angzarr

And in Buckaroo Banzai. He's one of those actors where I always smile when they turn up in things.

Angzarr

Simone's "space is dangerous!" reminded me of: Space is big, Space is dark, It's hard to find A place to park. BURMA SHAVE Also, am I the only one whose brain autocompleted: PICARD: History has proved again and again-- BRAIN: --HOW NATURE POINTS OUT THE FOLLY OF MEN

MacGuffinStuff

I knew I knew her from somewhere, that ensign in Arsenal, she was in Rambo 2. And then according to her filmography in an episode of DS9, and a whole bunch of other shows in the 80s and 90s, Julia Nickson. Also I had to say, I know it's not his fault but Geordi kept really badly mispronouncing Lt. Solîs, it sounds more like if you didn't want to buy a car and they tell you, So-LEASE! not Mister Soulless lol. But I also love Geordi, he taught me to read, not literally but you know. That's ironic, how many times have you mispronounced something because you never heard the word but saw it in a book, we've all done it 🤣 Denouement is still my favorite (Cinebinge talked about this once I just recalled). Also my manager just this morning in our bullshit meeting pronounced scarcity, as Scar City. Swear to all the Gods, and she was not being ironic.

Paul Peavler

Also, Symbiosis is an absolutely abysmal episode. From a creative standpoint I cringe at the 80s War on Drugs propaganda vibe. From a philosophy standpoint I absolutely hate this episode. Second most hated Prime Directive episode in the entire franchise for me. And one of the only times I’ve been completely disappointed in Picard. This was the genesis of me becoming a certified Prime Directive hater.

Joseph Schiller

The Brekkians whole economy was based on making the drugs. They received everything they needed from the Ornarans. So if Picard told the Ornarans the truth, you could argue that millions or billions of Brekkians could die because they make nothing for themselves.

James W.

Tasha 100% used to get high on her messed up planet. The Prime Directive is flawed, and not followed with any consistency, but Picard choosing not to help fix their ship doesn't go against and it doesn't meddle in their culture. He coldy and politely walks away to let those two cultures sort it out. Ep123 is 100% a product of the 'Just Say No'/War of Drugs era in the US. Nancy Regan is definitely in hell for propagating that crap. I love the ideal of the Federation but looking at it objectively they do just roll like neo-colonialists.

Patrick - Excelsior

They would just have to get to work learning to support themselves. At least the way Picard did this, this know it's coming and can start learning now. If they don't, they deserve what comes.

Patrick - Excelsior

There is also the extremely rare Periwinkle Alert, which just means everything is Fabulous! jk

The Real Andrew Kim

OK I have a lot of thoughts about this episode as well so apologies for the rant, but first I have to respectfully disagree about George's claim that Picard made the worst choices in "Symbiosis". I firmly believe he showed incredible intelligence and leadership by making the hard but correct choices following principles vs emotions, which I believe is one of the main lessons that gets overshadowed by the "bonk bonk on the head" anti-drug message. I have always loved "Symbiosis" because it tackles so many issues in one episode and shows the power of Trek as a storytelling medium to promote great philosophical and ethical ideas. Unfortunately as Simone and George kinda demonstrated, so many people look at this episode as the anti-drug afterschool special episode and overlook all the other amazing themes such as anti-imperialism, anti-capitalism, anti-slavery, the trolley problem, nature vs nurture and the human ability to adapt, learn and grow. Yes, his decisions may lead to suffering and people dying but that does not mean it was the worst choice. As Picard try to argue in the turbolift, the Prime Directive is a direct response to the lessons learned from centuries of imperialism. Any time another culture interferes with another, regardless of who is more developed or whatever, the influence can have damning unforeseeable repercussions down the line that would cause even more suffering. The Brekkian/Onaran relationship is an allegory for countless examples in earth history where intertwined culture are so dependant that to interfere in one state would have implications to the other, look at the current situation of Israel and Gaza. That is why the Prime Directive is so important and this episode was an attempt to demonstrate that to the public. The prime directive isn't about just not affecting developing cultures, but also respecting the sovereignty and borders of the neighbors of the federation. If Picard had chosen to help either side, it would mean the federation would also be forever involved in the politics and government of those cultures. On top of that, another lesson that Picard is trying to impart is the importance of being self-reliant and having the ability to grow, change and adapt. Yes the planets may suffer and society may collapse, but it is during those kinds of hardships that societies show what they are capable of. Darwinism also applies here, either they learn to overcome or they die. Not a pleasant or happy sentiment but a harsh reality of the universe and a lesson that societies and individuals alike need to learn. If Picard helped them as Crusher suggested, they would still be dependent, not on the Brekkians but on the federation, not only for the withdrawal medication and therapy but their knowledge and technology as well. You see how things can snowball. Anyways apologies for the essay long rant, but I'll end by saying this is why I love watching these episodes with you guys since it gives me a new perspective on episodes I have watched a thousad times, love the content keep it up! PS Surprised you guys didn't clock the actors from Wrath of Khan movie, T'jonn = David (Kirk's son) and Sobi = Khan's second in command

Mitchell Bowker

On "Symbiosis" - the two planets were neighbors within the same solar system, and so it was perfectly natural for these two peoples to interact and interfere with each other, which isn't the same as the Federation travelling lightyears to another star system and interfering with an under-developed culture. Plus, the Prime Directive is a rule of planets within the Federation - just because other planets cultures have interfered with each other doesn't give Picard or the federation any invitation to get involved.

G Lam

I've not seen it in the first few dozen comments... The Prime Directive is applied to Pre-Warp civilisations. These two species seem to not have that. They only travel (in ageing ships, within their own solar system... presumably no warp drive knowledge. So, yes, the Prime Directive limits Federation actions here.

Joe Concepts

I'll never understand why when they made this series they chose to not have a chief engineer character and instead have a weird rotating bunch of engineers. Especially given the fact that Scotty had been one of the most memorable TOS characters.

Angzarr

Someone get me a Vimto!

mky

Exactly. Picard had no choice and was limited by the Prime Directive. George, tell me where Picard did not stick strickly to the Prime Directive. It's Beverly that wanted to violate the Prime Directive, and impose her moralty on the two cultures, which is something that George usually frowns upon.

Tall Paul

Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

Tall Paul

Rough week for George. Consensus is he hasn't quite got the Prime Directive yet. Also he forgot to start the show with "Patreons 3,2,1, engage". Twice.

megamoo chilli

Ahh the DARE episode. If Picard hadn't responded to the SOS at the beginning then the freighter would have exploded and they said they couldn't repair their other ships so the same ending would have happened anyway. Dr. Crusher violated the prime directive by saying there were other options. Whether you agree with the internal logic of the Prime Directive or not, this episode definitely gets people talking, which I think is the purpose of high concept sci fi. It's so memorable that on Lower Decks they revisit the planets and see what happened after this.

PJ P

"The worst possible outcome" Picard chose was the natural progression - it was not sustainable.

Gwydify

TNG is a great show but I don't think anything is going to beat Simone's Sssss Fuck! :)

Josh Wilson

This episode is not in the TNG collection

Cory Garron

I assume you don't mean my comment?

LazyBoy Stays Up Late Watchin Video Tapes

122: This is just lack of Medical education. I would suggest that Picard let Dr. Crusher provide "Confidential" Medical assistance, advising the inhabitants that the plague has been eradicated and advising that they are suffering withdrawal due to drug dependence. I do not think that medical care and health education is any violation of the Prime Directive.

McShades

Was that blonde guy addict the same actor who played Kirk's son on Wrath of Khan? Kind of looked like him. Prime Directive prohibits them from getting involved in internal issues of a society. The Choice Picard makes, allows the drug dealers time to develop other industries on their planet before the addicts ships stop working and they can no longer trade. If Picard allowed the Doctor to make medicine and told the addicts there was no longer a plague, then the drug dealers economy would instantly collapse as trade would end right there. Picard way gives time to both sides. Now if the addicts knew they were addicts and ask the Federation for help, then that would be different.

Basilisk

Ok, a couple of things: First, I'm a little surprised that neither of you noticed, or perhaps just chose not to say anything about the fact that the one addicted guy T'Jon, was played by the same actor who played Captain Kirk's son, David. Secondly, I *think* the issue regarding the Prime Directive and the exploitative/dependent worlds, relates to them perhaps not having achieved warp capabilities. Just because they could travel between planets in their own solar system does not mean they can warp. (Trying really hard to potentially not spoil anything). Third, I did a quick search, and this is what I could find regarding the "Alerts" on starships, and I'd guess star bases: Starfleet vessels use other alert colors besides blue and yellow, notably Red Alert, which signifies a critical situation, as well as Green Alert for normal operations and sometimes Black Alert for experimental systems. Red Alert is the most common high-level alarm, while Green Alert serves as the status for "all clear" or normal functioning. Here's a breakdown of the primary alert colors: Red Alert (Condition Red): The highest level of alert, used in combat, critical emergencies, or for imminent dangers. Yellow Alert (Condition Yellow): A general elevated alert status, typically for an impending threat or general readiness for action. Blue Alert (Condition Blue): Used for environmental or docking/separation procedures, as well as for landing sequences or some low-power modes. (To my recollection maybe seen once, *possibly* twice, throughout several Trek series.) Green Alert (Condition Green): The normal status of a vessel when not under any other alert, signifying that all is well and operations are routine. Black Alert: An experimental status, or a condition used for deploying experimental systems. (To my recollection, never seem)

Guts

An entire civilization destroyed because they were too frugal :(

Guts

War between them is also a possible outcome. And at least one side would blame the Federation.

Guts

Why would you hate something that sparks so much discussion and provokes so much thought?

Guts

just a live chat after the episode would do probably or maybe some form of reading through selected Patreon comments. Would definitely love to see some outside perspectives and trivia influence their discussions.

Guts

Thanks for writing some of what I was thinking while watching their discussion. Wish we could see them react to Patreon comments like yours.

Paul Peavler

Because I don’t care about how much “discussion” a policy or law creates, I care about the real effects it has on people. And the Prime Directive as often written in Trek is both bad policy philosophically and not a great literary device. The concept is fine, the implementation is horrible. And I don’t care about “sparking discussion” because I’m not a debate pervert; I’m just a regular pervert.

Jimazoid

Well as a new member, ive seen many comments about the Prime Directive on Symbiosis and the actors who play other characters in the Trek Movies, but ive not seen anyone comment about at the very end of Symbiosis when Picard and Crusher leave the Cargo Bay you can see Tasha Wave at the Camera!

Jimazoid

I will be spoiler free and not say the Behind The Scene Reason, just to be safe for others.

Life in the cave of Garanoga

I always loved the "Just say no to drugs" episode lol. To clear things up a little bit, everyone knows Star Trek can get heavy handed with the preaching at the audience, but in this case it was a bit different. When this aired the US was just on the back end of the big "Just say no to drugs" PA campaign and it was so big it actually did seep into pop culture. At the time this was viewed by many as Star Trek trying to be hip and trendy more than it was seen as being preachy.

Steven Linden

Picard didn't interfere. The situation before he became involved was that the Ornaran freighters were breaking down and would soon fail and make the felicium trade impossible. The situation after the end of the episode is exactly the same thing.

Paul

The Prime Directive isn't just about direct interference with an individual culture; it applies even more broadly. Starfleet / The Federation are not the police of the Galaxy. Picard chose inaction. Had the Enterprise never come across the freighter, they'd be in exactly the same situation as at the end of the episode. Non-interference. The coils were from the Enterprise. It is emotionally brutal to us the viewer though, as Beverly says, hard to be philosophical in the face of so much suffering. But I like this kind of troubling ending. It shows Picard's conviction to duty.

Paul

Exactly, it seems they missed the chain of causation. If Picard had somehow stolen their spare coils that they had brought from their own freighter, then yes it would have been illegal interference.

Paul

Yeah, I loved Geordi in command!

This Justin

“Symbiosis” is my favorite season one episode, and one of the reasons is that the Prime Directive is actually the solution instead of the barrier. I never really saw it as just the “anti-drug episode.” To me, it’s much more about exploitation.

This Justin

Voyager has a great episode that shows what can happen when they ignore the Prime Directive.

Elisa H.

E22 I always liked Picard's solution, it's the solution that removes the enterprise from the game board as much as possible. If the enterprise had not interfered and saved them they would have died, the planet would have had no felicium, they would have gone through the withdrawal and though some or many would die the species as a whole will survive and be able to continue developing as they should have. Basically Picard just reset the board back to what fate or the universe or whatever meant to happen to those species