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The Sopranos 411-413 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-08-04 12:00:07
Imported:
2026-08
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Comments

newhastings

least surprising fact ever: james gandolfini and edie falco won emmys for their performance in whitecaps. unreal stuff from both of them. also season five is my second favorite of the whole show, i’m so excited…. the animal is coming…

Mandi

Is there going to be a new “short” show next week, or are you continuing on with Sopranos?

Inkpendude

you missed the poll?

Mandi

Oh I totally did, just saw Knights of the Seven Kingdoms won! That’ll be fun

Inkpendude

I was hoping for Pluribus, but I have never seen KOTSK and I've heard good things

BigGuy209

You can just call him Joey Pants. It's what mostly everyone calls him.

Brandon

I forgot how much I love Carmine Jr. mispronouncing words. He pronounces Versailles as Ver-Sayle instead of Ver-Sigh in episode 11. Then in episode 12 he pronounces 'debacle' as 'de-bih-kill' instead of 'de-BAH-cle'. 🤣 Despite that, he's not actually unintelligent. It's a great quirk of his character that the writers came up with. Edit: Sorry for the edit, but I take it back. Carmine Jr. is kind of a dope and I love him for it. 😅

MeetMountain

lol how would you know what your ex has in his freezer? 😅 When I break up with someone I don’t care to know a thing about them. But anyway, fuck Janice. And yea, those red lamps used to be a thing. Heat lamps.

Jonathan Eaton

For more Joey Pants "Bound". Written and directed by the Wachowski's (also wrote and directed The Matrix).

Deadly Ramon

How much more betrayal can Paulie take?

Brandon

Paulie's pivot from playing both sides to firmly being cemented in Tony's camp when Carmine fails to recognize him is priceless. "You're only as good as your last envelope", Silvio said to him before that. So he goes so far as to rob and kill an old lady in order to have more cash to kick upstairs to the boss. With the smile Tony gives him, you can see that it worked. The way that woman's lips were together and then slowly peeled apart was one hell of a detail after Paulie removed the pillow from her face. With that whole situation, these writers really understood dark humour. The kind that makes you feel guilty for laughing at something in a work of fiction. Honestly, great read on Carmella by George at the end of episode 12. I honestly don't remember what I thought of her arc in season 4 when I was watching this show for the first time. Knowing what 'Whitecaps' is all about, it makes perfect sense. Irina calling Carmella and actually speaking to AJ beforehand was everything she needed to justify the way she absolutely explodes on Tony. It was a long time coming, a little too long. When George said "shit or get off the pot", Carmella definitely decided to finally shit. It's hard to argue that 'Whitecaps' is Edie Falco's best performance in the entire series.

Mastervodo

"Joey Pants" was Cypher in the original "Matrix".

Skate Eight

"Bad for the glass" is a reference to the line by Mrs Mulwray's Japanese gardner in the movie 'Chinatown'.

Dan R

Despite it being amazing until this point, this is where you realise that The Sopranos is a special show

Jonathan Eaton

That whole scene was a mess and I loved it. When he said the finance minister was "De- something", I think he was talking about d'Artagnan. Who was not the minister but the famous musketeer that arrested the minister.

Jonathan Eaton

Personally I've only ever seen those heat lamps in hotels in Florida. Which is where he was.

MeetMountain

Oh I’ve had them already installed in 2 houses I’ve owned in Texas. They would make more sense in New Jersey or the northeast. But yea I’ve ran across them many times. I see them less now-a-days.

Dan R

I would argue that Carmine Jr. is unintelligent. He constantly spews these malapropisms and tries to appear intelligent when he really has no idea what he's talking about. Him changing his mind on Tony at the drop of a hat is a good example of that in these episodes, and there's more to come.

Dan R

M'boy, are you fat!

Brandon

That's a good point, actually. I wrote that comment before the scene at the golf course with his dad and Johnny Sack. I think I just really like his character. 😅

Dan R

yeah I'm happy he realised why she finally had enough. I feel like it's such a perfect storm of her having obsessed over Furio for a whole season, and when Irina came "into our home" as she puts it, the veil of separation was gone and she had to deal with it directly instead of just blissfully ignoring it.

Dan R

Yeah me too, he's such a funny character! I like Carmine Jr. cause he's like even more exaggerated than a lot of the other characters, Tony especially has a bunch of similar moments that might fly under the radar a bit. The show, somewhat silently, portrays these mobsters as the actual idiots they are IRL.

Dan R

I can relate a lot to George talking about being "happy" his parents separated, and in terms of how "normal" it is; I think if you grow up with a "normal" family for a long time you take divorce harder. I also grew up with a family where I had to witness arguing all the time, and I was just happy when it finally quieted down and they left each other. I really like the line Meadow has in Whitecaps where she says she "felt superior" to other families cause her parents were still together, I always wondered what it would be like to be a "normal" family and I kinda felt other families were "superior" to mine. In terms of kids blaming themselves, I think it's easier if you're a certain age; George said he was like 16/17, at that point you're too mature (IMO) to think like that, but I can image like an 8 year old thinking they played a bigger role in their parents separation

Deadly Ramon

1:27:05 I just now noticed that the song in the background at the Bada Bing is Metallica's cover of New Wave Of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM) band Holocaust's "The Small Hours," off its 1987 EP "Garage Days Re-revisited," which was Jason Newsted's first recorded material with the band. Holocaust, who had only played the song live, earned so much in royalties from Metallica's cover that it was finally able to record the song in studio.

Brandon

I think it's more common for younger children to question their own bad behavior when their parents divorce, even if Simone didn't feel that way. I think it's because young children can't help but be a little self absorbed until they grow up a bit. Season 4, especially after she decides to return to college, was when I did a 180 on Meadow as a character. We actually see her have a flashback and reflect on what a brat she had been in the past. AJ... less self aware. John wasn't just going to whack Carmine over him doing nothing about Ralph's insult to his wife, but that's the thing that led to his disloyalty. Their decision to take someone out always come down to the dollars and cents, which fuels John's decision making. Ralph's construction deals making so much money for them was the direct reason for Carmine saying no to John. If someone like Chris made those remarks, Carmine may have thought differently. "Bad for the grass! Bad for the grass!" was a reference to Chinatown. It comes out as "glass" from the Japanese groundskeeper that says salt water is very bad for grass. The body of the murder victim in that movie was found in freshwater, but he had saltwater in his lungs from being murdered in the villain's backyard pond.

Brandon

Yeah, malapropisms are common in this series with other characters. I think the writers just really enjoyed them. With Carmine Jr. they went wild.

Jonathan Eaton

"Bad for the glass. Bad for the glass." Tony was referencing the scene in Chinatown where Jack Nicholson thought the gardener kept saying "Bad for the GLASS" but he was saying the pond is "Bad for the GRASS" because it's salt water. Which was a big clue.

Jonathan Eaton

I think the reason they chose to play Dean Martin instead of something annoying is because Dean was Italian and was deeply connected to the mob his whole life.

Tall Paul

I'm sure that's right. But maybe is also something the goons have a high tolerance to on repeat Should someone be driven out of their home by the Sigur Ros album Takk on repeat I'm probably a suspect.

Tall Paul

thanks both for the discussion at the end, I enjoyed it

REDR58

Calling All Cars "Calling all cars" is indeed police-related. It was used during police dispatcher radio calls to send a general message to alert all patrol cars to be on the lookout for a suspect. Melfi using that phrase at the end is sort of like, "Look out everyone, Tony is done with therapy and is on the loose!" Melfi's various statues in her office seem to all be by the sculptor Robert Graham. The one behind Melfi is titled "Gina" and is from 1997: https://www.lamodern.com/auctions/2015/05/modern-art-design/25 Another one seen in the background seems to be "Torso": https://www.aerenagalleries.com/products/other/moca-torso-by-robert-graham There is a third that also appears to be by Graham but I haven't narrowed it down yet.

REDR58

There are loads of stories about Dean Martin (and of course Frank Sinatra's) connections to organized crime, not to mention those of a number of other famous entertainers of the time. Here's just the first one I found about Martin that seems more or less credible, but take it for what you will: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4215109.stm

BigM

About the talk about divorce my mother had the conversation about it not being our fault that they divorced, quite the opposite they would have likely divorced way earlier if it wasn't for us kids. So I don't think that worry from the parents is just from the movies, that's a real thing. I don't know if any child ever thought so though.

Anonymous Andy

Obviously the fights are the best part of whitecaps, but I always forget just how funny so much of that episode is too, the orange peel beef, the Dean Martin, even when this show gets really depressing and sad, it knows how to whip back around to being hilarious

Brad Lowry

You have seeen Joe Pantoliano (“Joey Pants” as his friends called him when he won an Emmy for the Sopranos…) … You have seen him before, at least twice in “Memento” and “The Fugitive”. In both he was probably the #1 non-major character. A fun movie to see him in is the Tom Cruise “break-out” film, “Risky Business” where he plays “Guido the Killer Pimp”. It is the first time I personally enjoyed him. (Tom Cruise was in “Taps”, but not the clear Lead Actor if I'm remembering correctly.) A GREAT Tony Pants film that I have recommended before for Deniro is “Midnight Run”!

photos_by_geoff

To your post discussion about divorce and kids feeling like it was their fault. My parents divorced when I was 3 but the custody battle went on for more than 2 years. I definitely felt like it was my fault for years. Something I did or said. It also made me clam up when wanting to express an opinion, because what if thats what makes them hate me too? It is very different in every household and not everyone knows how to treat it all. Being upstairs and wanting to hang out with my dad downstairs and my dad hearing me saying that to my mom and so he tried to get her to let me go downstairs with him and she instead shoves him down the stairs. It felt like it was my fault for speaking up. Then up in that same room is where my mom came out to me and my younger sister when I was 10 and I said how I felt and she never forgave me for being 10 and not wanting to be bullied at school for having a gay mom in the 80s. There are many reasons that I felt I was to blame for my parents divorcing and why they wouldn't get back together over the years. But it all definitely went back to those first 2 years of the custody battle where I always 2nd guessed if I had just not said or did something. Learning of my mom's passing just last June and her blaming me and my sister for her lonely existence after she pushed us away, made me realize that she had been feeding into our brains that she probably did blame us for the divorce too, or at least for her not being able to get away from that part of her life. People have trauma that they pass onto their kids sometimes and now at 49, I am having it all come more clear to me. But definitely blaming myself for my parents divorcing when I was younger did happen. It is a really thing for sure.

Jonathan Eaton

I was thinking it would have made more sense to use Sinatra's music since he's from New Jersey.

Jonathan Eaton

Taps is amazing with a great cast including Gus Fring from Breaking Bad.

Garett Wiles

I disagree pretty hard with everything Carmella was saying at the dinner with Meadow and her roommates, but she was right about Billy Budd not being a gay book. It was explicitly written by Melville as an allegory for Christ and the devil.

Race Jenkins

Unrelated to Sopranos: Y'all gotta watch Sheep Detectives!

@Foodmancing

I’ll be honest your conversation about divorce just reminds me both how young and how not American you are. Well, divorce had become more accepted in the US by the point of the Sopranos it was still culturally charged, especially in the Catholic community. The church still doesn’t believe divorce is valid. So for meadow, who is now a 45 year-old Catholic woman from the US, her views on marriage and divorce would be different and as she said, she felt so superior to her friends who had divorced parents. She lived in a bubble of her own delusions. As for children thinking that they are the cause of divorce that is actually a very common phenomenon. It’s neither rare nor something just made up by TV.

Stan the Man

“How not American you are” I mean…they are Canadian. Canadian and Americans all consume basically the same popular culture. Same movies, TV shows, music. I don’t think divorce was seen any differently between the one country and the other in 2002.

Stan the Man

God I love that these two do multiple episodes. Oh George, Tony wasn’t saying that Johnny Sac wanted Carmine dead because of the joke about Ginny. What he was saying is that that’s the moment Johnny’s disloyalty was born. So any problems Johnny & Carmine would have would be salt in a wound and Carmine made a mistake by not making it right with Johnny. But it’s also Tony trying to make himself seem like a more cunning and tactical leader that can read people & their motives. Tony says “I knew then that was a mistake” but in truth Tony was party to a plot thar almost ended up with Johnny Sac whacked. Tony likes to make sure people know he’s smart and capable leader. This is why the show has him watching World War 2 documentaries all the time. It’s like Tony fantasizes he’s a great general.

Oliver piercey

George I am so happy your a MAX Payne zealot too .

mayhem74

That will forever be one of my favorite Metallica tracks (source: 52-year-old metalhead who was intro'd to Metallica at 13 and then fell out of love with them after the Black Album)

Deadly Ramon

I eventually grew to appreciate that self-titled album for the commercial heavy metal record that it was, but it took about 15 years. The band waved goodbye to its Bay Area thrash metal roots as it sought to enter the mainstream, and it achieved that with great success.

JBK405

I heavily recommend the movie "Bound" for more Joe Pantoliano. It's a great movie in-and-of-itself, and he plays a character very similar to Ralph Cifaretto so it's like seeing an alternate version of his character here. It's written and directed by The Wachowskis, and it was part of what convinced the studios to greenlight "The Matrix". ---------- I consider the scene in episode #11 when Tony calls himself a 'fat crook' to be one of the singularly most important scenes in the whole series for understanding Tony's character. Particularly for understanding the way people talk about how Tony becomes a worse person over the course of the series. Because that's where he admits that he no longer has an interest in improving himself, and that change is why Tony seems to "get worse". I say that Tony actually doesn't get worse over the course of the series, I think he was always this awful from the very beginning. But what was different was that earlier in the show he WANTED to improve. So he examined his own impulses and motivations to try and understand himself. That introspection never actually changed anything that he did, but he THOUGHT about it. And that let the audience sympathize and understand him. But now he's given that up. No details, but there's a plotline later in the series that almost directly mirrors a plotline in the early show. And in both events Tony's actions are identical, no change in what he actually DOES, but the first time Tony went to Melfi and asked "Why do I want to do this? Why is this my desire?". Now that's gone. ---------- Connie Francis, who Carmela's father tells a story about running into at a store, is a famous Italian-American singer. She was born in Newark, so she is from the same place as these characters. That makes her 'one of theirs' who became a superstar, which is why Hugh brags about meeting her. ---------- "Calling all cars" is an over-the-air radio call for when a dispatcher needs to contact every car receiver at once, instead of one specific car or area. It was in common use in the mid-20th century, and the phrase was used as the title for a radio show and several movies. Technically it was used by all dispatchers (For example, taxi cars and fire engines, etc.) but it is in the public consciousness specifically as a police emergency call. It is now used as shorthand for "Something serious has happened, and it needs an immediate reaction". Melfi saying it to her therapist is an explicit cry for help that she needs real support, because she has become very personally invested beyond her professional duties. ---------- When Carmela asks Tony what Svetlana has that she doesn't have, I think we see it in the next scene when Tony comes face-to-face with Svetlana. Svetlana is gentle with Tony, but firmly and calmly upholds her earlier rejection of him and refuses to let him put the responsibility for what happened away from him and over on her. In the end, Tony has no course but to realize that he has to concede the argument. She had said before that she doesnt want Tony's problems, and she STICKS to it, without even trying to demand money or a favor or anything else. Whereas all throughout the show up until now, Carmela has made several big stinks about no longer wanting to accept things from Tony and hating what he does, but then going back to him or dropping her objections when he gives her the next big piece of jewelry. I really think the answer that that show is presenting is that Svetlana has integrity, and that's what Carmela doesn't have.

dys

It does feel to me like the only thing Furio was staying in America for anyway was Carmela... I think they showed that very intentionally a few episodes ago in contrasting the beauty of Naples when he's home for his father's funeral vs. the boring gas station and fast-food-lined roads they show the whole time he's coming back in the taxi to his house in the Jersey suburbs. Maybe I'm just biased as someone living in NYC, in a place geographically quite close to those New Jersey suburbs but where you don't need a car to get around and there's a lot of beautiful streets lined with little shops and parks you can easily walk between more like what cities in Italy have, so I might be projecting onto Furio how much I would have to adjust to living in a suburb again... and I'm an American who has lived in suburbs before, he certainly hasn't lived in American-style suburbs before at least.

Frank

I believe Carmella's breaking point was Tony's indiscretions coming into her home. I feel like she brought that up before and feels like a theme among what Tony does and how she's aware of it, but she doesn't want it thrown in her face.

Owenrock1221

They also saw him in The GOonies and Bad Boys

Vermars

How are you two still so bad at understanding people and their motivations

Patrick - Excelsior

The red light in a bathroom is a traditional infrared heat lamp designed to give off direct radiant warmth when you step out of the shower.

p0sthum4n

Red light doesn't disrupt night vision. Some bathrooms include a night light mode.

m0lika1 .

Damn I wish my parents divorce felt like a relief. I got the kind that got worse for months after and leaves you with traumatic childhood memories 😅

Donna Castellano

Same here. Season three is my favorite and season five is my second favorite. Such a great main storyline with a certain character.

REDR58

I’m in the US and nearly everyone (about a dozen people in total) on my mother side of the family (all of them Catholics) has been divorced and remarried multiple times going back to the 1980s. Everyone grew up with it.

REDR58

“Taps” was filmed near where I lived at the time, but I’ve never seen it and it was Cruise’s first major starring role.

REDR58

Not only does it not disrupt vision, it is used by the (US, at least) military to preserve vision in the dark: “Why the color red doesn't diminish night vision When trying to see in nighttime conditions, your eyes are working hard to provide the most information by widening your pupils, which allows as much light in as possible. The retina then takes this light and utilizing special receptors (rods and cones), converts it into signals your brain processes into sight. Colors are measured in wavelength, and in terms of visible light, red has the longest wavelength at 700 nanometers (nm). Human eyes can usually distinguish colors between 380 to 700 nm. When exposed to a dark environment for several minutes, your body releases rhodopsin, which is a chemical that helps human eyes see better at night. The problem is, this chemical quickly vanishes when exposed to brighter light even for brief moments. However, red light doesn't cause rhodopsin to decay, which is what allows soldiers or sailors to continue to maintain optimal night vision. In addition, red light may not just be advantageous for the military, but also could potentially have additional health benefits. According to one study, aging vision was significantly improved following daily exposure to red light.” Read More: https://www.slashgear.com/2208827/good-reason-why-us-military-uses-red-light/

REDR58

I use red lights in my workspace/when on the computer or gaming at night when I don’t wanna have bright lights on in the room.

REDR58

(Deleted… wrong reply)

REDR58

George, you were almost there with the “Guilt…” jar Tony was eating from in “Whitecaps.” Tony is eating a jar of “Guiltess Gourmet Spicy Black Bean Dip”: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1C4VuYCUvmJgnEw4ClUeLfj3WUv5w-eiris9uhTuHTA&s=10 The package design is different now: https://www.instacart.com/products/3317677-guiltless-gourmet-black-bean-dip-spicy-all-natural-jar-16-oz? https://www.reddit.com/r/thesopranos/comments/lfslqf/is_tony_just_straightup_eating_jam_from_the_jar/

Stan the Man

Give them a break. They are literally watching a show for the first time with a camera on them. Keep in mind everyone comes at this show differently with different frame of references. But just imagine if you had a camera recording everything you say while watching a movie or TV show for the first time

Stan the Man

I love how horrified they are at Paulie killing Minn Matrone where as personally I find it one of the most hilarious moments of the show. They way Paulie is pathetically discovered under the bed “Minn, ya car was gone” and he tries desperately to turn the situation around lol.

MacGuffinStuff

Per George's query: I thought it was my fault. I was 16 when my parents finally divorced. And yeah at the time I did think it was my fault. It's a long story lol, but you asked George, I did for a while think it was my fault we all had to go through that fuckin marriage of inconvenience. And people wonder why I have a dark sense of humor. Reminded me of something I heard recently, how a lot of veterans have PTSD but it's not combat related, it's the shit that made them enlist in the first place that still fucks them up even more than the military.

Angela D. Mitchell

"Whitecaps" is such a great title for this episode. It's the name of the beach house they will never actually live in -- and whitecaps also signify rough weather at sea, as well. So -- troubled waters. Meanwhile, Simone and George, I think this was simply a "last straw" situation. It's one thing for Carm to know about the goomars and miscellaneous women as a concept. But the Russian mistress calling the house, talking to her son, telling her point-blank, "I am the woman your son was f_cking, and now he's off with another one." That was the last straw for Carm. She had been battling depression because she had fallen in love with Furio and he had given her all these little hopeful, bright moments, even if nothing had ever happened. It was something to literally dream about. Her dream-Furio gave her what Tony didn't. But then Furio left, and she was devastated. She lost the thing, the person, that was giving her hope. I do think Carm is materialistic and fooling herself about it. But the life of a mob wife also pushes her into that POV. She starts believing with every gift "this means Tony loves me." Whitecaps was the crown jewel -- it was a tangible sign of love when she desperately needed one. Until that phone call. (I'm a child of divorce, I was 4. I remember the intense arguing and fighting so definitely always understood why they had to separate. But for me the trauma after was more that my sister and I ended up going back and forth between them, sometimes multiple times per year, etc.) I think the kids were surprised because yes, they knew their parents fought, but they always made up. And it was ingrained in them that women in their world do not leave their husbands. So Carm actually throwing Tony out was the shocker for them. As everyone has already noted, oh my God, Edie Falco in those scenes with Tony -- just amazing. You can see the grief and anger in her face, her eyes -- hear it in her voice. She is incredible in those scenes, and Gandolfini really meets her there in emotion as well. But for me those were Carm's moments, and they were incredible. It's about time. Thanks for the lovely reactions to season 4 as always!

Angela D. Mitchell

I haaate hate hate hate Janice with poor sweet Bobby. I wanted Junior to speak up! AGHGH. (George, Bobby's wife's ziti wouldn't have had freezer burn yet. She's only been dead a month at most based on the show's timeline.) Also, Carmine Jr. getting every other word wrong or mispronounced is hilarious and I love it.

Angela D. Mitchell

And Guido the Killer Pimp in Risky Business! I also loved him in The Goonies, Midnight Run, and as part of the good-guys crew in The Fugitive.

Ben from Tenn

I have Aladdin songs still stuck in my head.

Bill Douglas

By the same token, I think it’s obvious that Ishmael and Queequeg did not actually get up to any funny business in the shared bed at the Spouter Inn, and Melville would have been astonished by modern literary critics suggesting as much. At a certain point, the analytical possibilities of even a great book have been exhausted and an ambitious young critic has to invent new things to write about.

micah

janice policing bobbys grief is soooooo infuriating omg

erosennin

About kids thinking things are their fault... My parents were never married and I initially grew up with my mom, but my dad lived nearby. I have a half-sister - same mother, different father - who's 8 years younger. My mom was a junky (so was my dad.. but he soldiered up and got clean to take care of me) and when I was about 9 or 10 I basically fled my mom's place and moved in with my dad. there was a lot of nasty fighting between the two for some years and I also tried to have my dad take my half sister in, but he wouldn't. I still saw my sister at our grandparents a lot, but she was basically raised by her grandma on the father's side I was raised by my grandma on my father's side. we always had a good relationiship but not super deep, we're rather different people. when she was in her teens after some family gettogether, I escorted her home and we talked the whole night through and she said that when I left and she was about two to four years old she literally thought I left because of her and it made me cry like I have never cried in my life before. To think this poor little baby blamed herself because she didn't know any better and no one explained the situation t oher properly. I never even considered my sister would blame herself in any way for me leaving. and when we were together we never talked about the serious things. our mom wasn't fit to be a mother and both of our dad's were fuckups to some degree.. we both had our separate grandmas to raise us and our shared grandparent to meet up at. She never mentioned any of these feeling until her teens. I think the younger kids are, the more their world revolves around themselves and their immediate ties. so when someone leaves they don't have a lot of different options to explain why, so some just instinctively blame themselves. edit: I accidentally put this on the Q&A post, so I deleted it and put it here, where it was supposed to go^^

PIG

Christ the acting and writing on this show is incredible. I can never get over it.

Ketzalborne

Amazing performance from Edie Falco in these episodes. Highly recommend "Nurse Jackie" starring Edie as the main character about a New York nurse.

Cromulentius

There's a simple reason the Furio/Carmela thing felt rushed and unearned: it was never genuine to begin with. It was a classic case of two people confusing feelings of loneliness for feelings of romantic love. In Furio's case, he's a stranger in a strange country and Carmela was the only person who made any attempt to make him feel welcome and at home.