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Babylon 5 - 1x10 "Believers" - Full watch-along (Patreon)

Published:
2026-06-23 18:00:02
Imported:
2026-10

Content

Follow along with me using your own copy of the episode!

Files

Babylon 5 - 1x10 "Believers" - Full watch-along

Comments

Paul Hess

"No. What makes us human is we have so many different ways to hurt." A full on Dr. Franklin episode, and a doozy. I'm looking forward to watching this with you.

Paul Hess

Babylon 5 fans are Lurkers (like the Lurkers in Downbelow on the station) and JMS is The Great Maker. The definitive fan run resource (live during original airing and still around now!) is The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 full of summaries, volumes of JMS postings, etc.

Paul Hess

JMS took us from a gut punch on a grand scale last week with Deathwalker, genocide, and universal morality quandaries about immortality and elitism to a gut punch on a small and very personal scale this week with Believers. What do we believe, how do we know what's right, and where is the line between autonomy and lawlessness. Parental rights? Is it OK to shield your child from outside beliefs? A lesser show might have ended with words of wisdom from Sinclair to Franklin and them all marching back to their stations ready to take on the next challenge but that's not real. Doctor Franklin had the hubris of knowledge, but ended up in pain with only his gloppit egg for comfort. Sinclair came to him because being there for your friend matters but it doesn't erase the pain.

Emma

I'm not sure how much of an outline they were given, but Larry DiTillio wrote Deathwalker. David Gerrold (The Trouble with Tribbles) was handed this episode assignment by JMS, as he and his partner had recently adopted a son from a foster home.

Emma

While Lurkers is the common term, you can try calling us Egg-sucking Mammaloids

Baulderstone

No offense intended, of course!

Emma

Fingal eggs on the station posing a hazard, possibly relates to The Trouble of Tribbles.

Baulderstone

This episode is always a tough watch for me, and it clearly was for you as well, Bunny. I also don't want to get too deep into personal matters, but I had a relative with similar beliefs. As you said, these thing become a lot more complicated when a child is involved as well. I agree this is the first real Franklin episode. Yeah, he had a big part in Infection, but he wasn't really driving that story like he does here. You get a real sense of Franklin's personality in this one.

Baulderstone

I'll also agree that the Ivanova story just doesn't work. B5 is usually very good at balancing its A and B stories, even blending them at times. It felt like the A story just got too big and the B story got squeezed down to nothing. They would have probably been better of just cutting it entirely.

Paul Hess

Speaking of Great Makers, Star Trek's Gene Roddenberry is lovingly known as The Great Bird of the Galaxy.

Emma

Don't feel too bad, we've all been upset by this episode. I've seen it over a dozen times, and it doesn't get much easier.

Emma

This has been called an anti-Star Trek episode in that the dilemma would be resolved by the end of the episode in a satisfying way. While I agree somewhat with that sentiment, Star Trek was also capable of producing no-win scenarios, but I need to leave that for a separate comment. Jonathan Charles Kaplan as Shon did well, and his scene where he reaches out to his parents, and they reject him, is hard to watch. Tricia O'Neil is rightly praised for her performance as M'Ola, but I really liked Stephen Lee's performance, especially when he was explaining how he once could hold Shon in his hand.

Greg

Wow, yeah....having just watched this episode for the first time with Bunny, I can agree with her this was ROUGH. I was almost crying myself by the end of it. Well directed, well acted, great story. And I agree with almost everything she said -- including the sub plot with Ivanova. While it was good to see it, it felt very out of place here and I don't think it was needed. It's not the FIRST time I've argued the sub plot didn't feel needed, but looking at the comments it seems this time most folks agree with me! As to what happened with Ivanova and all those Raiders -- no, it doesn't directly show what happened (though it would have been very cool if they did!). Instead a throw away line is said at the end of the episode saying "Your fighter is going to be in the shop for at least a week" letting us know she engaged those fighters WITHOUT help and somehow came out on top, which....damn! She only had the one wingman, who had been ordered to stick with the Asimov, so it was her against a dozen Raiders and she came out on top.

Emma

The Ivanova plot was added by JMS as the episode was running short. It did give a counterpoint where the parents welcome the child. The intercutting is rather jarring, but we do get Franklin deciding he will disobey Sinclair and then cut straight to Ivanova disobeying regulations. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Emma

"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known." In A Tale of Two Cities, Sydney Carton sacrifices himself. These are the final, prophetic thoughts as he walks to the guillotine. He has secretly traded places with his lookalike, Charles Darnay, to save his friend from execution. The idea of sacrifice is at least as old as the story of Abraham and Isaac. In Star Trek II, Spock sacrifices himself to save the ship, taking his own Kobayashi Maru test. In the aftermath, David, Kirk's son, comes to see his father. David: "You knew enough to tell Saavik that how we face death is at least as important as how we face life." Kirk: "Just words." David: "But good words. That's where ideas begin. Maybe you should listen to them." When Sinclair is sitting with Franklin after the death of Shon, Franklin echoes this: "It's all words. Just words." Shon knows enough of his faith's precepts to go with his parents, knowing what the outcome will be. He realises that in his parent's the eyes, he is no longer their son and is willing to be sacrificed, just like Isaac.

Emma

When Sinclair tells the parents that he must make a ruling, Tharg tells him that he will rule for Franklin, because humans stick together. Sinclair: I'm sorry you feel that way. Tharg: Feel sorry for your doctor. If he harms my child, if he touches Shon, I will kill him. The threat is portrayed as if Tharg would kill the doctor because Sinclair should feel sorry for him. It is only later that we realise that the threat is against Shon. The doctor will be sorry about this outcome.

Texas Anla'Shok

This is basically the anti-Trek episode, the one that deliberately does not give us the good clean happy ending.

StuArtist Studio

How about both/and? Egg-sucking Mammaloid Lurkers works for me.

StuArtist Studio

A lot of people are saying that the B plot is unnecessary, and to a degree, I understand. But, aside from being filler for a screenplay which was coming up short, there is a bit of irony, in the fact that Franklin and Ivanova both disobeyed orders, but with completely opposite consequences. One decision led to tragedy, the other preventing tragedy. Still, I'll admit, the B plot was weak.

Philip

Hi, Bunny. This episode is always sad to watch. But I'm sorry it was also an emotionally difficult one for you. Some of the best stories in Star Trek, B5 and Stargate SG-1 touch on moral dilemmas and invariably will cause nearly all of us to relate to something similar in our lives at some point. Yes, Richard Biggs really shines in this episode. And while the B story probably wasn't needed, it did give us some more background on Ivanova's military experience.

Matthew Graves (Graviton)

Very well written and IMO an absolutely spectacular job of acting by Richard Biggs as Dr. Franklin here. I agree that the Ivanova story is somewhat superfluous. I think the idea was to just have something to break up the unrelenting drama and grimness, but it was jarring. I do think the choice to end it on the B plot was a mistake. The emotional impact of the episode is obviously in the main story and I definitely think it would have been stronger to end on the Franklin/Sinclair scene. I actually found a bit of dark humor in the bits with the ambassadors. Their responses say alot about their societies. The Narn and the Centauri are, ironically, saying same thing: "Whats in it for us?" The Narn dress it up terms of pride and independence, while the Centauri do so in terms of bureaucracy and bribery, but it comes down to the same thing. The Minbari philosophize their way into doing nothing. And the Vorlons spout profound sounding poetic enigmatic non sequiters. :) I'm not gonna get deep into my own perspective on the actual moral issue at hand cause it's not worth potentially riling up other posters. I 'll just say you have my deepest sympathies Bunny! If nothing else, sometimes a fictional depiction of a traumatic situation can be cathartic or at least stimulate some insight, if done maturely and intelligently. Hopefully there was some of that here for you.

Mark Gosine

The double edge sword. Highlighting extremism in both directions. The plot doesn't really take sides. No one can hold all the answers but sometimes there is a truth that transcends one's beliefs. The trick is recognizing that truth when your own dogma conflicts. "Sometimes the pebble's votes means nothing after the avalanche begins.."

George N

Beat me to it Paul! Huzzah my fellow Lurker!

George N

May the great bird of the galaxy bless your planet!

George N

I agree Kaplan did great for a young kid. Lee was good too. As for Tricia O'Neil... hmm... maybe that's a name that we should keep in mind for the future? ;)

George N

I agree that the B plot should have maybe been cut. Maybe they thought the show needed some action? The A plot was so strong though that it does end up being a distraction.

George N

I used to joke that this episode should have been rated X... because of the balls it showed to tell the story this way lol

bakamitai

It probably doesn't need to be spelled out, but the Lurker's Guide is CHOCK FULL OF SPOILERS. Still, it will be a great resource when you've finished watching the show.

George N

I identify as Spoo myself...

George N

Richard Biggs, the actor who plays Franklyn definitely came into his own in this episode. For sure. This is a tough one. I'm pretty sure JMS has talked about being Agnostic or an Atheist at the time. It's interesting how sensitively he approaches religion in the show. He is very respectful of belief, and the hero of the show Sinclair is definitely a Christian. But he also gives other aliens their own belief structures and shows what happens when belief structures rub up against each other. As an atheist myself, this really helped form my relationship with people with strong religious beliefs The scenes when the parents petition the Ambassadors is really revelatory. You get a real sense of their pre-occupations and values. The only thing missing was them trying to petition the league... they might have gotten further... plus maybe more Robin Curtis as Ambassador Kalika. Kosh was definitely saying that the ship had already sailed. Thank you for opening up as much as you did April. It made this reaction special.

George N

I also identify as a meat popsicle...

Emma

Is that like a Swedish meatball?

bakamitai

I really like how the difference showed between the five races' approaches to the situation. 1. G'Kar was purely selfish, "I'm not going to help because you can't do anything for me." 2. Londo gave mock sympathy, "I'd like to help but it's too much of a bother." 3. Kosh was distant and dismissive, "There's no point in getting involved because the outcome is already decided." 4. Delenn was bound by morality, "I really do care but I'm not allowed to intervene." 5. And Sinclair was bound by duty, "I have to take the parents' side because that's my job."

Paul Hess

Kosh is the pebble. And I am the Walrus.

Paul Hess

"Just how much justice can you afford?": A painful reflection back on our own society.

fargoboyle .

Plot B was just little snippets here and there to break up the heavy plot A. The pay off being her disregarding orders saved lives (the child), Franklin's ultimately didn't, so it didn't need more screen time for me. Shows the complexities of running B5 and maintaining an equilibrium of so many beliefs aboard the station.

Lola Felicia

There is no shot you're gonna be okay, bunny, lol

David Mason

Ivana ran back to her flight, and they shot up all the opposition. We know this, because of her talk with Garibaldi, about her ship being in the shop for a week to get repaired.

George N

Goo goo g'joob?

George N

Bunny has seen that one, so no spoilers contained for her...

Lola Felicia

i knew it. without any spoilers, I knew everybunny was gonna cry. It won't be the last time. :)

Lola Felicia

ah, you're an ex-mormon eh bunny? I'm not, never have been even close to the church of the LDS. You clearly do have trauma from it. The community here is here to support you. The only way to heal from trauma is with community. If this helps, I wrote a song 3 days ago. It will help you, bunny. https://suno.com/s/S1od9LQFp4Qvw8sM

Timothy Bennett

The Ivanava plot arc was only there as a comparative. It wasn't even meant as a side story. It was simply an illustration that sometimes breaking the rules works out and youre a hero and chose correct, and sometimes its an abject disaster

MertzRocks

Perhaps a DIFFERENT B-story would have worked better, or if the B-story had been written better; but the episode definitely NOT work with just the A-story. Gerrold and/or DiTillo perhaps could have made the B-story better in some way but idk how (and I'm a writer (not a screenplay writer tho)).

MertzRocks

In the end Stephen saves a boy's life... at the cost of the boy's life... 😢 Ugh. Even without the weakness of the B-story, this is usually the only ep I would ever skip in the entire show on my own; but never with a creator reacting to it. I'm doubly blessed to be subbed to TWO excellent creators who are reacting to this show right now. Bunny you are ahead by 5 or 6 eps, the other will be getting to this ep in about a month.

MertzRocks

MOST shows have supplemental materials that are chock full of spoilers. ST, B5, SW, Firefly, SG1, BSG... oy

Thomas Schorsch

It seems like Ivanova just ran and got to the gate before being shot up too much. I assume that because that's what we saw and otherwise they would have shown more. Running away is less interesting than a battle, so there was no need to interject another scene in this episode. I think that the point was to show that Ivanova can sometimes take it a little too far, but that she's not going to add a stupid decision on top of her first risky decision. In another words, she takes risks, but knows when to cut her losses.

Thomas Schorsch

I doubt it. A major battle with the raiders would have been a more prominent part of the show. Most likely, she just ran and avoided a disabling hit.

Thomas Schorsch

Kosh's statement meant that he knew the outcome was certain, that the child was going to die either way. He was basically telling the parents that their beliefs, unless changed, were going to ensure that. Kosh rarely gives a simple answer, but one that makes the other person think.

bunnytails

I’m looking forward to checking out FunnyLilGal’s reactions when I’m through with the series myself

bunnytails

This episode made me excited to see more of Dr Franklin

bunnytails

Star Trek has had some tough endings as well

bunnytails

Not Mormon, but something very similar

MertzRocks

I do not like glowing eggs and ham...

George N

I've been watching her reactions for a while. She's a ball of energy that's for sure!

Emma

“Justice? -You get justice in the next world, in this world you have the law.” ― William Gaddis, A Frolic of His Own

Emma

That was my interpretation. She took a few hits as she ran.

Baulderstone

To back up your point, this was Franklin's Kobayashi Maru, and it wasn't a simulation, so he couldn't just hack it.

Texas Anla'Shok

The Asimov is named after noted sci-fi author Isaac Asimov, known for his robot series and the famous Three Rules of Robotics among others. This is actually the second appearance, Franklin actually arrived aboard that ship.

Texas Anla'Shok

In start off on Franklin's side, but all through it he just keeps making decisions that eventually put me against him. And when he does it anyway, I'm just like, "You SOB." By that point, I think he loses sight of what he was trying to do in the first place and was just trying to prove that he was right. He begins acting on mercy, but ends acting on ego.

Jack

I didn't see B5 in it's first rub, but much later, in the late 2000s (like 08-09). It was at that same time that I was reading a bunch of books by the so-called "Four Horsemen" (Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris) and coming to the realization that I was an atheist. Needless to say, when I saw this episode for the first time around that same time, it hit hard. When this show leaned into hard sci-fi dilemmas like this, it was really banging on all cylinders! Franklin is awesome. I can't really say more than that at this juncture. The totally superfluous Ivanova B plot, and the fact that Franklin didn't see the parents' actions coming a light year away, are the only things that keeps this from being a 10/10 episode. They must have needed to fill out the running time. 🤷🏻‍♂️

bunnytails

Yeah, I can see that and felt a little of that myself as well

Kieran Clarke

Dr. Franklin's first name is Steven :)