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Early update for July 29, 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-07-28 03:55:01
Imported:
2026-06

Content

who died and left socrates in charge of being gay?

Files

Comments

Sajuuk-Khar

Plato used to body slam dudes he was debating, homosexually

el

oh god, the talk is happening THIS storyline??? I mean, it's good that they're doing it right away, but....... Poor Joe, man.

GPanda

Joyce isn’t going to be able to pull the trigger is she 😞

C.T. Phipps

I straight up believe Dorothy kills Agatha after the third panel for that comment. She is deep in denial. Joyce is also not acting like she wants to break up with Joe.

Smoochie

That post-Dorothy smooching is beginning to wear off my dudes.

Dan Rabin

Agatha as Greek chorus—very *nice* Greek chorus.

LupinThe8th

Who's been betting these girls would smooch: It was Agatha all along! JK, it was the whole dorm.

MrShoggoth

…I think he might already know, guys.

GPanda

There’s still time to screw it up

MrShoggoth

Also holy shit, Leslie. EDIT: Agatha. I’m sorry, I’m running on three hours of sleep here

The25th

Regrets really kicking in for Joyce huh. Or more so dread because the girl kissing was pretty sweet.

Megh

I think you may be right Wonder how long she'll avoid it for...

Moonrunes

I'm more of a Diogenes fan myself. Guy was always a barrel of laughs

Alexis Smith

I'm actually really surprised that Joyce is so quickly getting to this. I really wonder what she'll end up saying to Joe and how hell react.

Vivian

Oh Joyce, it's hitting you now, isn't it

Maybeeus

Remember when i said out of everyone Joyce and Dorothy would probably end up actually taking things the worst? I was a bit out of line saying that, mostly because i'm probably wrong but still for some reason i felt like bringing it back up.

Logibear

Taking bets. My money is currently on Joe being told "I've got something important to tell you" and then him jokingly saying "You're gonna run off with Dorothy?"

Jay

This is literally all I wanted from Joyce. Okay Joyce stocks have gone back up

Bronxden

Really need to get a two parter release because seeing this, Joyce is kinda having doubt going into this conversation with Joe and i feel like something is going to happen in two ways with Joyce not doing it and Dorothy feeling betrayal; while the other is going to be a character assassination with Joe maybe cheating (worst timeline if it happens).

Maybeeus

Her name is AGATHA put some RESPECT ON HER NAME!!!

Jeremy AR

Who was saying that Joyce didn't fell as strongly for Joe as he did for her? I wanna havd a chat.

AE Gonzalez

Joyrothy will be a very sweet couple when/if they get their shit together.

Sajuuk-Khar

Who’s been watching since the Place of Hooch? It was AGATHA ALL ALONG

Logibear

She's realizing that she genuinely loves two different people. That shits hard to navigate on a walk that lasts a couple of minutes.

Harold

@MrShoggoth: It would be more than a little weird for a teacher to be in a dorm hallway at this hour, or any hour, really.

Sajuuk-Khar

also oh Joyce, you really do love them both :< You’re gonna have a bad time

Edwin I Callahan

I still don’t know how well this storyline is actually going to work in the overall context of the strip and Willis’s concepts of his characters, but, yeah, they’re his characters so he gets the last say. Still, the art, dialogue and design of these strips is excellent and I’m hooked into the ongoing story.

Heatth

I really thought they would try to delay some more, but I guess it was items 1 and 2 in Dorothy's checklist... I can see Joyce cracking and not being able to say it when face to face with Joe though, based on that second-to-last panel.

Templeton

This is going to really gut-punch Joe I think. He worked so hard to change himself and I wonder how he'll react when Joyce enters telling him the news...

Logibear

That or the more likely option. Joe opens his door to Joyce having a genuine breakdown.

William Lewis

As Dr Sam Beckett would say "Oh boy..."

Harold

"Hey, what has two thumbs and is dumping you for her best friend, who until very recently hated you with the white-hot intensity of a thousand burning suns? THIS GUY!"

Moonrunes

Who has bets on Walky pulling a Halloween Party and denying reality once again?

GPanda

Another storyline at least

Megh

I know it's not technically the first time Dorothy has told Joyce she loves her, but this does feel different since she unambiguously means it romantically (despite half heartedly adding "platonically" at the end) Wonder if Joyce not saying it back in the moment will become a thing at all

Ian Walling

So I literally did a PhD on Plato, and I feel the need to point out that in all of his extant writings on love, Plato explicitly treated sexual love as an inferior form of love, one best avoided (he was not anti-love, he just thought sex and reproduction were lesser forms of love). Also, he explicitly condemned Greek pederasty in both the Republic and the Laws. So we know he was opposed to the more casual forms of sexuality in Ancient Greece, never married or took on a mistress, and condemned physical sexuality. We will never know his feelings of attraction, but by lifestyle, he seems asexual. There is really no reason to think either Plato or Socrates were gay (in fact there is a very funny passage in Plato's Symposium in which Alcibiades complains that Socrates won't fuck him, even when he crawls into Socrates's bed and tries to be seductive towards him). Socrates did have a wife and children, and there are repeated jokes in the Platonic dialogues about hot young guys flirting with Socrates, only to discover he is only interested in their minds, and is indifferent to their hotness. There was a lot of gay stuff in Ancient Greece, but there is no reason to think Plato or Socrates were doing any of it.

Jozan

Damn you willis

Waifu Purplebutt

I'm still pulling for a "rocky patch that turns into a polycule"

Moonrunes

He also made that really fun colorful clay you could play with.

5099 5618 v2.0

Alright, we know where we think this is going. Now... Where is it *actually* going?

Heatth

Nah, I stand by it. Feeling guilt is not the same thing. I could change my opinion based on future strips, but, for now, to me all this strip is showing is that Joyce recognize and appreciate that Joe cares for her in a deep level.

WT Harmon

This is low on the priority list, but I don't think Dorothy has the body mass to squish Joyce like she likes.

GundamBradley

I love Joyce, but she also kinda sucks. Which is part of why I love her, but man, it does kinda hit sometimes that she also sucks.

Amós Batista

that's why she needs to go back gym

5099 5618 v2.0

Which is to say, what's just outside the frame that is about to come back *into* the frame? Who haven't we heard from in just a little too long?

Jeremy AR

I mean yelling i love you back in the middle of the hallway not gonna help with the discrimination thing

5099 5618 v2.0

One possibility: (/Joyce gets to Joe's room. No one's there) (/a note's on the door) "Joyce, Amber's in the hospital. Meet us there. --Joe"

Jeremy AR

Hey almost as having some patience for things to develop pays off.

Packy Anderson

See, we've all been waiting for when other people find out about the kiss, and I'm realizing their reaction is going to be "Wait... you two hadn't kissed ALREADY?"

5099 5618 v2.0

Then again, what do I know? I'm not in charge, here. Curious how this plays out, tho.

5099 5618 v2.0

Yeah, a little more core work is probably in order for the both of them.

Packy Anderson

"As best as Ziggy can figure it out, you're here to get all of them together into one big poly relationship."

MrShoggoth

Okay okay I’ve changed it! I’m very tired sorry

5099 5618 v2.0

(and then: "Dumbing of Age, Chapter [the Next]: The Trial of Amazi-Girl")

Amós Batista

Ugh, I feel ya: it's 1AM, I supposed to be already sleep.

Amós Batista

Oh, how caring, Joyce touching Dorothy here and yesterday

Jay's Journey

Joyce is a repressed bisexual with trauma around men. She obviously loves Joe, but there's a barrier between them that doesn't exist between her and Dorothy. In an ideal world, she'd be able to enjoy both of them as supporting partners, but we rarely get to experience an ideal world.

Heatth

Dorothy and Joyce have said "I love in" to each other in the middle of the hallway before. Megh is taking note that Joyce not responding to it *now*, when she had in the past, might be misinterpreted. Also what discrimination thing? They aren't being worried about being discriminated (Mary aside, their wing is quite queer friendly), they are worried about being caught cheating before they can sort things out with the boyfriends (also Becky).

Ragtime

Karma coming for Joe, Dorothy saying "call me a lesbian in high school, I'll show you!"

5099 5618 v2.0

@Ragtime She sure did! (Mind you, maybe they both weren't clear on what bisexuality was or how it worked at the time)

Nailbumwees

I'd be entirely unsurprised if he eventually settles on "Welp, I tried being a better person and allowed myself to be vulnerable and all I got for it was heartbreak" then reverts to toxic Old Joe. I can also think of an even worse option.

Ragtime

Oh possibly, I just thought it a humourus circumstance for Joe to be queerly cucked specifically by someone he bullied for perceived queerness.

Jay

No patience Live in the moment

shiftdruid

bursts into tears again at the second panel

Logibear

They need to invest in a Joe-Sized Body Pillow.

Logibear

I believe in Joe. I think his moment to shine is just around the corner.

William Lewis

Despite my other wisecrack, this is our author reminding us that Joyce really is the stronger one. But oh, the feels for her...

Calder Johnson

I mean, a lot of people were saying that - and if anything this strip is further evidence. The thing is that they weren't saying that Joyce felt NOTHING for Joe, just that it looks like there is a significant delta in how they feel about each other. "I think you're wonderful" is pretty cool, but it's quite a bit different than "I'm obsessed with everything about you."

Templeton

New (Current Joe) I think has impacted his ways too much, so much so that a return to Old Joe would be tough...I think of it like: "Joyce, you hurt me. Deeply." He'd go from woman to woman trying to chase that romantic high, but knew that Joyce was the one for him. "Joe, look, it was just a mistake. You're very important to me and my life" "Joyce...I know that look....you really love her...and I can't get in the way of that..." Do you think anyone would be so HURT that they'd transfer away from the university? Like, "there are too many places here that remind me of her...so I'll leave"

Jayne Lindgren

I feel like I am the only person who is neither expecting nor hoping for a poly solution to this. I understand why people want it, but I don't really, and neither do I think it would actually work out well for anyone involved.

Astariel

Be strong, Joyce! You can do it! Just think of guilt-free Dorothy kisses! (Also, hi Agatha!)

P J Upton

This is the most snark we have heard from her in years!!

Railway Series Book Club

i mean, personally speaking, the possibility of poly not working out well for anyone involved is a large part of why i *want* to see it attempted, lol

Calder Johnson

Woof. Well, there's the other shoe I was suspecting would drop (as soon as Joyce stepped outside of the Dorothy Obsession/NRE Zone.) Yeah, woof... not a fun kind of conversation, extra when it's the first you've ever had. Man, that "I like who I am when I'm with you" hits pretty hard. Cause it's true. Dorothy and Joyce may be the Drill That Pierces The Heavens, but that mad love also kinda makes them idiots (cute idiots, but idiots nonetheless) Joe's obsession with being a better person for Joyce, and the resulting consideration and understanding he offered made her a better person too. It's both heart-warming to hear her acknowledge that, and heart-breaking to know that it may be very hard to hold on to that (at least in any way that's fair to Joe, under the present circumstances.)

NinjaZaku

I forget that we get the word "platonically" from Plato. All because he dared to think teachers shouldn't fuck their students.

Calder Johnson

I dunno. That kinda feels a bit harsh. She is trying to do the right thing, we'll see how it goes. Its true that how deeply she feels things is a double-edged sword and right now it's definitely cutting both ways.

Calder Johnson

I've already said this a lot, but I'm pulling for the outcome where Joe's changes are too deeply internalized for simple backsliding. I think thats why we were shown the gym scene with Sarah and Rachel.

Calder Johnson

I mean, I think its pretty much only sociopaths that WANT to break up with people. Other folks are thinking, 'This suuuuucks.'

5099 5618 v2.0

(/One Slipshine Later) "I don't get it, Al. Why haven't I Leaped?"

MiqoRems

oh GOD no, not the only one, a polycule with these folk would be the biggest disaster of any relationship we've seen so far

Smoochie

I think it’s possible—in a way. Joe, not Dorothy suggests that Joyce date both of them and see who she feels comfortable with in the end. Dorothy isn’t happy with it but she agrees to it. —But not before Dorothy breaks things off with Walky, having expected Joyce would do the same with Joe originally. So we get the polycule everyone’s been hoping for but in the most cursed monkey’s paw fashion. EDIT: and because I’m a drama goblin, this ticks off Walky because from his perview (and no one explains it to him) the girls kicked him out of their fun, sexy polycule (but kept the big hunk, reminding him of Lucy and Jacob).

Jesse

That was probably a radical idea in Ancient Greece.

Jesse

Surely these two doofuses (doofi?) have at least heard of polyamory, no-one’s forcing them to break up with anyone right off the bat. Open relationships might not be for everyone, but it’s weird that the thought hasn’t even been mentioned.

Jesse

I feel like someone would’ve brought it up already.

5099 5618 v2.0

"OHHHH YEAAAAH" (/Plato, apparently)

Jeremy AR

Joyce does know that it exist, she asked Sierra and those other two about it in a bonus strip

Railway Series Book Club

just sitting here in awe of the first I Love You uttered between these two girls that bears a full and complete understanding of what that truly means for them... and also in awe of how its immediately undercut by Dorothy needing to pretend its just gal-pal-ery in front of Agatha, lmao dotty you don't need to fake it for agatha, even if she does know you both are already in relationships she'll be like "okay ♥ yay ♥" regardless, because shes agatha

etherealDesign

I'm poly and I don't want this to go a poly route lol the people saying poly would fix everything are delulu. starting a poly relationship by cheating is way more of a recipe for heartbreak than just breaking things off cleanly here and now

Silent

So with four strips left until the end of the storyline, unless we get another 'midnight cliffhanger' to end the book, chances are Joyce's gonna chicken out and leave things until tomorrow.

Simon Magid

A huge improvement on being Mary!

AE Gonzalez

Guaranteeing something huge will happen before she wakes up.

Jasmijn Wellner

doofuss' (for those who watch Past Life (I know that was dinguss', leave me alone!)) Springing the idea of an open relationship on your partner at the same time as confessing having smooched your best friend might not be the *best* way to approach polyamory...

Jesse

Sounds better than dumping them for the person you started cheating with. At least raising the possibility would give people some time to think about it.

Harold

@AE Gonzalez: Storyline ends with the August 2 strip, so there are actually four left.

joe mcguire

I will say it again even though people get mad at me: would it be crazy to literally take a day and think about this? Like she loves Dorothy, but does that mean her love for Joe wasn’t real? Is it possible that because this is more recent it feels more powerful, and assuming she has to break up with Joe is a knee-jerk reaction? I don't think there’s a perfect solution, I just think it’s wild that they had this insanely emotionally charged moment but aren’t allowing themselves any time to process their feelings or what happened. I don’t think Dorothy has much to think about- she was basically with Walky out of inertia at this point, but I think what Joyce had with Joe was pretty real, so I think it behooves Joyce to really stop and think about how she feels and what she wants. It’s not fair to Dorothy, Joe, herself, or anyone if she doesn’t.

zee

That's really fair. Jojo just feels like so much wasted potential being cut off this early. Dorkys been explored thoroughly by this point idc what happens there. But JoJo, man, blehhh. This storyline is getting less and less fun by the minute

David M Willis

Wildcard response: dumping them for some random person instead, just to keep everyone on their toes

Sajuuk-Khar

“I am the cream….THE CREEEEEAM OF THE CROP” —also Plato

Sajuuk-Khar

“You gotta work the shaft, Sam!”

Sajuuk-Khar

I’m gesturing to this a lot, pointing, bugging my idiot eyes out like Charlie Day

Sajuuk-Khar

What Zee said about wasted potential plus my enormous wall of text from yesterday about how Dorothy/Joe/Joyce have a harmony for me all together that they don’t as separate ships, and while I think it could turn out a huge dramatic mess I think it could also illuminate their deeper feelings also including the part about how Walky needs to get out of there though because he’d feel obligated to mask, start masking immediately, and really just destroy anything positive from the get Like, if any possible Dorothy/Joyce/Joe polycule involves Walky at all I am 1000% sure it’s fucking doomed. Without him they’re more like 50% doomed. It’s a coin flip. But if Walky is there (this is not a value judgement it’s just analysis) things are fuuuuuuucked

Sajuuk-Khar

Watch this space for Joyce to successfully talk to Joe in one way or another and Dorothy/Walky convo to fuck up explosively (Dotty doesn’t do it, Walky walks in on JoeJoyce negotiations before she can, a terrible third thing)

Sajuuk-Khar

“Joe, I love who I am when I’m with you. Dorothy, I could never stand to be anywhere you weren’t. That’s why I’m dating Alice now. Or possibly Malaya. One of the two.”

Sajuuk-Khar

Oh god I can see this or several variations of this in my evil prophecy cauldron Hahahahahaha oh no

Silent

Not much point in Joyce pondering who she wants to be in a relationship with, if she believes Joe's going to dump her for cheating regardless of her choice. The right time to think things through was BEFORE kissing Dorothy. She has every reason to believe she's the only viable choice now.

Tom @ Magic Chopstick Games

I mean the one possibility I’m not seeing anyone talk about (I think) is Joyce, in an attempt to ad-lib break-up with Joe, realizes that she genuinely loves both Joe and Dorothy and quasi-panics her way into some spur-of-the-moment hanky-panky with him, which feels to me like the most DYW outcome possible

The Deliberate Myth

I obviously don't know how this will play out. But this strikes me as an opportunity for the WHY people do things to take front and center. For those worried about a Joe relapse... I agree that is a potential outcome, but Joyce breaking up with him is also an opportunity for him to continue striving to be a better person for himself, not for Joyce. Joyce too is trying to figure out what she wants to do for herself, and this strikes me as a sharp contrast to where she started, where she was doing things for the church, for her parents, etc.. WHY people choose to do things has always struck me as critically important. And this is an opportunity for Joe, Joyce, and Dorothy to figure out WHY they want these things and whether they are important even without that external motivation.

Madison

I’ve been and will be here for the ride, but man I’m upset at the prospect of no more Joyce/Joe because they were my favorite pairing so far

Rob McBobson

Okay, here's my prediction of what Joyce is gonna do: She'll try to break the news to Joe, but she'll feel so unsure of how to do it, or considerate of his feelings, or something else, that she won't be able to tell him.

Rob McBobson

Also, it's been TWO WEEKS since the kiss and we still haven't seen how the relationships are gonna be affected by this, and at this point I'm feeling all "When are they gonna get to the fireworks factory?" except luckily there's no Poochie.

Girlycore

Yeah, I'm with Calder. It's rare to WANT to break up with someone. Need to, yes. Be prepared to, also yes. But even horrible relationships are mourned afterward.

Shane Wegner

Joe and Dorothy both like, and are liked by, Joyce a lot. I don’t think they feel much of anything positive for each other. But maybe they’d both know and accept some “other time” makes a Joyce really happy, which could make them happy. A hinge arrangement?

zee

Saaaame dawg, that's exactly where I'm at. Looking forward to the dramatic fallout is basically cope for losing the ship I've been looking forward to for years (⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠)

zee

I mean Willis said something about turning away from the route that would lead to him making a shit ton of cash off a JoJo slipshine for the dojo wedding instead, so idk if there ever gonna go all the way like that. Or maybe they will and it just wouldn't be thematically appropriate to show it

zee

To suck is to be human or some shit like that. Everyone on the cast sucks sometimes, some more than others, and they need to freedom to suck. This is a very sucky thing Joyce did here. A beautiful and cathartic but also sucky thing. And we love these characters for the ways in which they suck

zee

"Plato explicitly treated sexual love as an inferior form of love, one best avoided" move over Diogenes, Plato is my GOAT now (This is a JOKE)

zee

I'm willing to put money down that he won't regress, y'all are giving our boy 0 credit. That's like, the most boring option

zee

Hey Willis? How much for 2 days in advance? I'll hand over my whole debit card number with the three funky numbers on the back, hit me

Rob McBobson

I, too, have a debit card number I'm willing to part with

Harold

Hello! I am David M Willis's designated representative for debit card transactions. Please send me your complete card information at

Megh

Gotcha here's the number: 4255 5255 5555 5555 Fancy digits on the back: 666

Megh

Also jokes aside I'd pay like $20 for a 1 week ahead tier

Kelly (they-them)

Imagine Joe is just all like, "That's no problem - after all, we never agreed on exclusivity. "

Harold

Agatha goes dancing down the hallway cheerily singing, "Second polycule, second polycule," and Becky comes out of her room exclaiming, "Sec-a what now?"

5099 5618 v2.0

"I wish I could tell you that [Joe] fought the good fight, and [everyone ended up in a happy, stable, polyamorous relationship]. I wish I could tell you that - but [ dating when you're 19 ] is no fairytale world." (/Shawshank Redemption)

Dan Rabin

This is yet another strip showing the two-half-strips timing technique. The first half, with Joyce's loving leave-taking of Dorothy, has its own punch line delivered by Agatha. Then we get a half-strip of Joyce-in-motion, with a nice beat panel where she stops and stands upright in between leaning forward as she marches off to execute item #1 on Dorothy's list.

Sajuuk-Khar

Uh. Lmao. No, you know what, I have to put all my cards on the table: I think a permanent, or intended to be permanent, hinge arrangement is what people mean when they say “saying poly will fix things”, I think it’s more likely to fail the more hinge-y it is. 😅 Like, Dorothy and Joe have to *at bare minimum* bury the hatchet and actually bond over their mutual love of Joyce and their mutual knowledge of each other enough to become *friends*. If they can’t, if they just stay hating, it’ll straight up fail. Personally, I’m really eager to see them form a full triangle, because it’d be incredible payoff and it’d either be a sexy success or an infinite drama engine! I strongly believe that Joe and Dorothy can at least become friends, though, because the main issue was Joe’s shitty behavior and that’s something he’s working on getting rid of already.

Sajuuk-Khar

Honestly Joe and Dorothy staying antagonistic would be boring, to me?? I feel alone in *that*, more often than not! Like, that rivalry is not spicy! It’s not fun!

Andrea Andrew

Maybe Dorothy will have to be the one to propose that to Joe and Joyce until they figure this situation out.

Maybeeus

Honestly Agatha probably thinks these two have been a thing since that time Joyce managed to drag Dorothy to church. Actually, i wonder what Agatha's lovelife is like.... Is she ace? Is she bi? I think her being straight is off the table purely based off the fact that back in Shortpacked with McAwesomes she was meant to be a counterpart to notorious straight woman Robin Desanto. It makes the most sense to me that she's either Bi to match or Ace as a contrast. There's also a chance we'll just never know because it's Agatha. Actually doubling down on her being Bi because this chapter has been a bisexual roll call. Agatha is the final strongest bisexual in their queer journey today. I wonder how many people think she's a part of the whole Sierra, Grace, and Mandy polycule...

David M Willis

for 9 months I'd flirted with adding, from Dorothy in panel 3, a "okay so jocelyne, amazi-girl, amber, sal, and now agatha" digression at the bottom, but everyone who i consulted agreed with my suspicion that this threw the rhythm off and scanned better without an extra joke crammed in

Heatth

Yeah. I like the joke but the strip is already packed.

Dan Rabin

It's #1 on Dorothy's list.

I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams

I’ve been holding off from saying anything re: cheatgate out of pure fear from being yelled at, but the closer we come to this storyline ending I must speak my truth; I cannot WAIT to see the JoJo breakup 😈

I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams

unfortunately for them, my desire for delicious breakup drama outweighs my longtime investment + enjoyment of Joe/Joyce as a couple

Mariah

big same I just never viewed it as a endgame relationship but I don't have anything against it generally I enjoy drama more than slice of life wholesomeness.

GundamBradley

Damn, you got the lotto numbers for tomorrow while you're at it?

5099 5618 v2.0

It would never be enough, tho. All the strips are like this, that's half of why we keep coming back. Consider: Willis makes the strips. He's got a buffer of *at least* a year, at this point. And I suspect even *he* is on the edge of his seat at the end and of every strip. 20 wouldn't satisfy you. 100 wouldn't do it, either. Potentially worse: *you'd have to keep your mouth shut about what you saw*. Could you imagine what that would be like? (At least one person definitely does know what that's like, btw...)

5099 5618 v2.0

For context: imagine having seen the "let's be criminals together" strip *one year ago* and *not being able to talk about it for all that time*

zee

Yeah I know, I was just joking. It's hard enough not spoiling my boyfriend on anime we're into bc I read the manga and he didn't. I'd become some sort of depraved animal if I actually had access to the whole buffer (this is also why I cancel my subscription between particularly juicy strips, after a while the difference between normal release and Patreon early release becomes null)

5099 5618 v2.0

(Except you don't have to imagine, because Willis occasionally posts single panels from the future of the strip with no context or explanation, sometimes. I suspect things like this are what doomed Cassandra. Being right too early often isn't useful)

5099 5618 v2.0

Poochie returned to his home planet. They needed him.