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Early update for October 17, 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-16 03:55:01
Edited:
2025-10-16 12:27:06
Imported:
2026-06

Content

so do we put on the paramore, or

Files

Comments

Megh

"It's where you belong" A Dumbing of Age Pornographique

Graeme

Damn that’s cute as heck

Emily Lamont

This would fix me. Oh my God. I can't. Omg

Ria

GUHHHHH I'M GONNA FUCKING MELLLLLLT I'M SOOOOOO GAYYYYYYYYYYY

Girlycore

Well that's just delightful 😊

tara

omg joyce is putting out 100% dorkable vibes while putting out 100% top casanova vibes somehow

KittyKai

FUHHKIN ABXIKCNDHASHH TOP JOYCE IS A *FUKKIN TOP* MY HEART

Sydney Ashcraft

I want to love this, but with Joe just left out there hanging, my anxiety won't let me.

MrShoggoth

I’d laugh if, after last comics, Joyce forgot to take off her shoes.

C

*insert Garnet singing "True Kinda Love" here*

Mohmi

I'm getting the sense they're more than just good friends but I'm still unsure.

Logibear

"you've paused, what is it?" "...I didn't bring any protection"

Harold

Historians will say...

tifani

Yeah this leaves me cold.

Dan Rabin

The first panel establishes wordlessly that Joyce has now clambered onto the bed. We get three panels of their views of each other; their different positions make the light from the window reflect differently from their glasses. In panel 3 the light catches Dorothy's upper lip (perhaps anticipating the kiss), and the shadow of Joyce's hair is clearly visible on Dorothy's jaw. In other news, Hammerspace Bloomington Ltd. reports that they're fresh out of little pink hearts.

Ria

Autims

Viga's Art Room

but fr when you dropping that, Willis? *holds fist of money*

Logibear

"Joyce, you can't get me pregnant?" "Watch me try"

Harold

@Viga: We may or may not find out soon on the main site

tifani

I feel you. This could have been adorable. But after all this I just feel completely disconnected from these two and from this whole moment.

Logibear

Alright. We've reached the highest of highs team. Now watch Willis take us to the lowest of lows for the next week

Logibear

Still hearing Yackity Sax in my head. But i'll concede that yours is way more appropriate.

KittyKai

I'll be reading the inevitable Slipshine to keep basking in dis high :3

Smoochie

No, no. Joyce just saw that Dorothy had something on her mouth and helped her remove it. They’ll let everyone know this was just a joke. … Any minute now.

etherealDesign

I used to pray for times like this...

Lia

Harts <3_<3

Waifu Purplebutt

... Joyce you still haven't told her about the situation with Joe... Joyce she still thinks that you're now in a monogamous relationship with her... Joyce stop.

tifani

This is such a weird position to be in tbh. I genuinely don’t want to be a buzzkill. And I think when this whole story wraps this entire storyline is probably going to stick out as the height of the story being told because I really think when it comes to writing it’s better and braver to take chances and I like my characters to not be perfect. They can do shitty things and I can still like them but I think what also needs to be necessary for me is that things need to line up in a way that feels cohesive to me and all of this just really doesn’t. This whole thing is being presented as this big romantic earned moment and it just doesn’t feel earned to me. Joyce is looking at Dorothy all eyes filled with love and I know she is actively keeping information from her. And even if some people don’t want me to think about Joe I am still thinking about him. So genuinely all of this just makes me sad.

Bad Poetry

...yeah. Well said. This has a sour aspect to it, which is really too bad.

Megh

SICKOS ALWAYS WIN!

DiDi-chan

*sighs* I'm at that point where I'm so jaded about a relationship's existence that I can only see corny, cringey bullshit that rings as fake to me. So that's neat.

Megh

do you think Joyce has a secret strapon?

Ragtime

ughh ffffffffffiiiiiine I'll resub to slipshine.

ArdieBea

It is adorable, heartfelt, delightful, and beautiful. And it's not earned - it's given. It's not perfect - it's messy. It's not massively moral - in fact it's criminal. It's the right choice for these characters in this strip. And maybe it's a little schizoid of me, but I have no problem enjoying love where it happens even when it's wrapped in ethical ambiguities. Let those ambiguities unroll over the next five years. Right now, I'm glad for these girls.

Zesstra

Hey Joyce, remember when you were dating Ethan and people said "have you tried a strap on?"?

DramaQueen

For some people, not everyone. I think it’s adorable. They weren’t married to those boys (and they even broke up with them) and this country doesn’t yet criminalize gay love. No one is obliged to reciprocate crushes. Let them be happy and be in love.

ArdieBea

New *JoyceFace* unlocked. And it might be my favourite yet. Joyce putting raging horniness on hold to look upon her lover, taking time to enjoy her, to let their shared history wrap around her, is a picture worth having. Also, that spread-eagled pose of Dorothy's is screaming, "I'm all yours. Eat me!"

Katrina Marie Paton

Because the whole idea of polyamory is easy to process for someone from a fundamentalist Christian upbringing and for said person to then make sense of it all and decide whether it's something they would actually want? Sure, you could argue she should have waited until she had, but who is she going to talk to about this? I mean, Roz is the obvious choice, but that seems unlikely. Bringing it up with Dorothy might seem like a great idea on the surface but even we have no idea how she would react, and if it turns out she takes it badly...I'm just saying Joyce has a lot to lose. Is leaving it til later likely to change any of that? No. Is this comic called Dumbing of Age because the characters are all amazing, well centred people who always make great decisions? Also no. Give her this, there's plenty of time for this happiness to be destroyed later.

tifani

@dramaqueen No they don’t get to be happy. Joyce and Dorothy have to go to jail now. Because I say so. A million years jail for them. 🙄

ArdieBea

TBH I've had the Paramore earworms for months, now, to the point where I've had to exorcise them by learning to play some of the songs. So, yeah, darling, you are the only...

tifani

@katrina I get your point. I’m not even sure if Joyce actively gets she’s doing something shitty right now. That doesn’t change the fact that this whole thing feels like a huge mistake to me. And maybe part of it is that I don’t feel like happiness needs to be destroyed. If she could just take a second to actually talk it feels like so much future pain could be avoided. But for some reason no one wants them to actually talk and they’re not actually saying anything! They’re just doing! (Insert pun about yeah each other and then high five I guess).

Zesstra

"We locked both the doors!" "I can get into a bank vault if desired, a dorm room lock is nothing."

shiftdruid

congrats ya crazy kids. whole world out there ahead of you, but you get to face it together, and that's worth everything

Zane C

As much as I love people being happy in relationships, I *really* shudder to think what the full effect of this is on Joe. I feel bad for the guy

William Lewis

The _ONLY_ one who doesn't is maybe joe. Chill.

tifani

How dare you.

tifani

Comments here seem mildly divided. Makes me wonder how the main site is going to take this. So chill, probably.

Waifu Purplebutt

I'm sorry, what on earth are you talking about??? Dorothy is very specifically under the impression that Joyce broke up with Joe, because Joyce hasn't told her that she hasn't broken up with him - the problem isn't with Joe, who's expressed willingness to share Joyce with Dorothy, the problem is that Dorothy isn't aware that that's a thing on the table, and thinks that she has Joyce 100% to herself as an exclusive girlfriend.

Tessea

THIS!!

tifani

Anyway taking a small break from feelings to ask Dorothy what the fuck she’s doing with her arms in that first panel. Honor bondage?

Tessea

These two are just adorable together. It's going to get messy soon, but for the moment it's nice to see them happy together.

ArdieBea

Thinking a little bit further... given that Joyce is still in recovery from a toxic religion that insisted she remain pure and faithful forever, and Dorothy is trying to escape her own demons of perfectionism and controlling behaviours, all the messiness inherent in this moment really should be celebrated!

ArdieBea

Sorry, Zane. I'm not getting it. What effect do you think this is going to have on Joe? Like, specifically, this? Their love-making that Joe has already explicitly endorsed and facilitated? Their relationship? That he has seen grow and has already told Joyce he knows is her priority? or the fact that his first effort at a loving, monogamous relationship hasn't worked out the way he was hoping? Cos he's already had two arcs where he's 'reverted' to his old horn-dog persona (with Malaya, with Liz) because he didn't think he was good enough for Joyce. Those conversations with Rachel had a purpose; Joe has drawn his line in the sand and he's committed to change. Yes, he's going to be hurt, regardless of what Joyce chooses, because 'Joyce does feel like everything,' (as he said to Dorothy) and he's not going to get everything. But as he said to Jacob, "One day she's going to be perfect and you're going to wish you had some of that" (paraphrased, sorry) and he HAS had some of that. He might even STILL have some of that in the future. With Joyce, I believe in Joe and his humanity, and so I can't wish that he never hurts, but I hope he gets honesty and kindness. I think both of those are very likely in the coming days.

Populuxe

Two people with glasses making out is a recipe for disaster.

ArdieBea

@purple Floof Yeah, Dorothy does think that. And we've reason to believe (Daisy's office?) that Joyce MIGHT think otherwise. But I agree with the point made above - I think it very likely that Joyce doesn't yet know WHAT she thinks. She probably doesn't know what she'd say to Dorothy even if she definitely wanted to say something to Dorothy, and she may not want to until she's had at least a little more time to think about what Joe said.

Sajuuk-Khar

GODDAMN RIGHT IT’S WHERE SHE BELONGS 😤 TOP JOYCE NOW AND FOREVER

Shane Wegner

Second only to two people with braces.

Shane Wegner

::SWAT team kicks down the door and detains them to the Maximum Security and All Foods Mixed Together Prison::

Shane Wegner

“Ravish me” pose, consciously or unconsciously.

tifani

She didn’t turn it down either. I really feel like you’re arguing that Joyce gets away with this on some kind of legal technicality and I just don’t see it that way. She did not leave that conversation with Joe on any kind of definitive note. That’s why we’re all debating it. Her knee jerk impulse to call Joe her boyfriend and her “yeeegh” at Dorothy calling him her ex boyfriend tells me Joyce herself isn’t 100% decided on where she is with Joe meanwhile Dorothy is under the impression the relationship is fully over. Joyce knows what Dorothy thinks the situation is and she knows how she left things with Joe and she has said nothing about it. That’s keeping information from Dorothy. Information that Dorothy would want.

Shane Wegner

I was getting really strong “I’m happy when you find things that make you happy, and that’s welcome to include Dorothy _and_ me” vibes from him. Almost verbatim what he said.

Grace Serenity

Still less gay than their usual bullshit! Sal said it, so it must be true!

tifani

And also her response was “I can’t date two people at the same time. I’m not a hussy.” Two seconds later she said “I AM a hussy.” Following that train of logic it means she has also come to the realization she can in fact date two people and could be open to dating two people.

Sajuuk-Khar

Fucking red panels as there’s a zoom in on the door turning like Jurassic Park

Sajuuk-Khar

Joyce is going to try until it HAPPENS goddamnit

darklion

Up Where We Belong.mp3

tifani

@raye Joyce is not in a monogamous relationship with Dorothy until she breaks up with Joe which she has not done no matter how much you want that to be what happened. She left things on pause with Joe but got the all clear to do whatever with Dorothy. Dorothy thinks she’s in a monogamous relationship with Joyce.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Tifani & @Shane Wagner Seems legit. (/Munches popcorns)

5099 5618 v2.0

@QueenOfSodor Along a linear or exponential progression, do you think?

5099 5618 v2.0

@Kai Same. For reasons that include that one, as well.

5099 5618 v2.0

@etherealDesign Isn't it weird when prayers are answered? Almost feel like someone [1]'s listening... [1] - Here: Willis.

tifani

@Raye you know the parts of that conversation that don’t fit your worldview still exist whether you ignore them or not. She walked into that thinking she had to break up with him to be with Dorothy. He presented her with the reality that she does not have to dump him to be with Dorothy. She said she couldn’t date two people because she’s “not a hussy” then she said she “is a hussy”. That implies she could actually date two people if she wants. And she was just that moment realizing that’s something she could want.

tifani

I’m really at the point where I’m just going to stop commenting until Joe comes back or Joyce tells Dorothy and we actually know what the fuck this situation is. Since apparently people think Joyce actually fully broke up with Joe two months ago (she did not!) and if we can’t get on the same page about that not actually happening there’s kind of nothing left to say. See you guys whenever the hell we can all actually agree on what’s going on.

MrShoggoth

Yes, come lurk with us and enjoy the schadenfreude of every character’s bad decisions. It’s nice and quiet!

5099 5618 v2.0

Because it came up a couple days ago, I just rechecked LUANN. They still seem to be stuck in the dimensional portal that appeared in Luann's bedroom. Not much is currently known about this new dimension or why they're in there, although I would not be surprised if this was the one where you get money for nothing, chicks for free.

tifani

I like quiet.

5099 5618 v2.0

I would also not be surprised if this between-space had an aperture to the DoA-verse. I do hope it doesn't open into Joyce's room for at least thirty minutes, if so. However, immediately pulling in Joe in the meantime should be fine.

Railway Series Book Club

I dunno if that's a new JoyceFace, actually? it feels reminiscent of the look she had in her focus panel in the wordless Paramore strip, imo

Maybeeus

https://youtu.be/GBwdE-L_Jcg?si=dKnwZ4zTtrJKAioc the mood tonight. I often for some reason forget this songs name or get it crossed with it's alternative name "Love and Peace". And suddenly i'll realize the context i'm playing it in and see that real title and without fail it's like getting hit by a truck.

Waifu Purplebutt

Again, the issue isn't with Joyce's perception of things, it's with Dorothy's. Dorothy broke up with Walky so she could be with Joyce, and did so under the assumption that Joyce would break up with Joe - Joyce did not in fact do this, and has yet to tell Dorothy this. THAT'S THE FUCKED UP PART HOW DO YOU NOT GET THAT???

NinjaZaku

This is very cute. They look so happy. Something's about to go sideways again, isn't it?

Grace Serenity

No, we're going to get a week of Riley eating cereal ala QC's Steve!

NinjaZaku

Like as cute as I find these two the metaphorical shoe that is the status of Joyce and Joe's relationship definitely still hasn't dropped.

Sajuuk-Khar

look folks I love Joe and all and I deeply disagree that Joyce rejected his poly proposal, I think it’s on the back burner and is obviously going to come back but I also think Joyce gets to fuck her dumb nerd idiot gf and love it and that’s great like yeah the situation is messed up! it’s messed up and beautiful! It gets to be both! deal with it! Joyce is emphatically *not* morally correct, AND THAT’S OKAY

Populuxe

I agree. This is what’s called good writing, where characters have multiple facets and make mistakes and are still good people who are learning and growing.

Beck Chonigman

I mean, she didn't reject the proposal. She just didn't get to answer, or even think it over, before realizing that their (her and Dorothy's) big kiss may be seen by her dad who checks out that paper regularly and is already here bc he saw "Joshua" (Jocelyn) on the front page from the previous day's paper. She did clarify to Joe that they would talk more later. The main problem here isn't that she hasn't gotten back to Joe, it's that she hasn't told Dorothy about it yet, and the fact that she's conflicted bc she still does really like Joe and is very likely entertaining the possibility. And if that is the case, Dorothy deserves to know before doing anything, especially since they're going at it while Dorothy is still under the impression that Joyce and Joe are officially and completely broken up. But, yeah! You're right! That's what makes for an interesting and compelling story with interesting, realistic characters!

Anna K

So is this what's going to cause the downfall of Joyrothy? Joyce thinks Dorothy "belongs up here", in her bed, but her bed is a tiny island of solitude and privacy from the world that they have to live in most of the time. Once they have to be together in public, without the driving force of pent-up horniness that's carried them through today, and interact with the world at large in ways beyond shouting their new relationship from the rooftops, are we going to see cracks? Because... there has to be a downfall at some point, right? Even setting aside the terrible way they got together, the buildup to this point has been years (our time) / months (comic time) of Joyce putting Dorothy on an impossible pedestal, while Dorothy infantilises and condescends to Joyce (in a way that's especially grating since Joyce's autism diagnosis). Dorothy was still infantilising and condescending to Joyce as recently as this morning, telling her that her definitions of sex & meaningful milestones were things to be scorned and corrected. There's no way all this groundwork leads to a healthy, lasting romance, and I'm impatient to get to the "gloriously dramatic implosion" part of the story.

AE Gonzalez

Joe’ll be fine. Now Dorothy, if Joyce tells her about her “deal” with Joe after they have sex . . .

ArdieBea

@Queen, It is similar. But I feel the mouth shape here is really distinctive and unusual for Joyce - even her small smiles are normally much wider, as in the strip you mention - and the prominent upper lip here make this feel really different, combining both horniness and happiness AND making it a small, reflective moment in the midst of action. It's like her anxieties are all, for once, just shutting up and she's allowed to be in love. ETA - no, wait, there's a very similar face, here: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-14/02-its-the-love-i-havent-got/toes/ Apparently her "I'm in love (and horny)" face is almost exactly the same as her "I want to murder my face with his butt" face.

Astariel

I swear, this comic could end 30 years from now with Dorothy & Joyce getting married, and the last comment on the last strip will be, "But what about Joe?"

Astariel

What is there left to say but to squeal joyously? I'm just so happy for them.

joe mcguire

I just wish I could enjoy this more. I wish they got to this without trampelling over a bunch of people who should also mean a lot to them…I don’t know that there was a way to do that, I’m just wishing.

Joey245

Cuuuute!

Tessea

Also people act like Joyce has ditched Joe and left him hanging. It's been a while for us. But in-story it's only been a couple of hours.

Matt McKenzie

I haven’t checked these comments in a while but if people really think that Joyce has made a decision on Joe without even speaking to Dorothy then they’d make terrible storytellers to say the least.

zee

They're too comfortable and too stable already, cracks have to form at some point. Otherwise what's the point, the story's done with them

Sajuuk-Khar

@Becky: Yeah, I get that, and I do think it is a problem—I saw some takes below about how Joyce is Totes Monogamous Actually and I want to push back on that because it’s: dumb BUT I also don’t think that not telling Dorothy is as bad or as big a dealbreaker as some folks (not you) are acting up about! Like, yeah, messed up of you, Joyce hon, but the only relationship I can think of that doesn’t verge into “messed up” on a regular basis is/was Dina and Becky, so like, let the girls fuck if they’re gonna! Dorothy has needed Joyce to fuck her for a hot minute now!

Andrea Andrew

Are you from the Reddit or the discord?

Empress of Robots

So to be clear, this strip is perfect and I have read it several times over the last 10 hours and swoon each time. BUT something about Joyce's "it's up here with me . . . where you belong" speech that reminds me of Thanos's "Where has that brought you? Back to me" speech at the climax of Avengers Endgame and it is SENDING ME

Empress of Robots

HUH. I wonder if Amber ever wrote a slashfic about an Enemies to Lovers polycule ship of Thanos, Cap, Thor, and Stark? Just asking for a friend...

Maybeeus

I was a bit delirious writing this. immediately after i passed out harder than i have in years and this was after waking up during in the middle of said Ultra Sleep. Now i am currently shaking off said Ultra Sleep and also still kinda out of it!

KittyKai

THIS! ALL OF THIS

Maybeeus

People are reallyyyy reactionary* in the comments which is a part of the very nature of comments. Personally i reserve judgement for any work until it hits a proper endpoint. I remember playing through Final Fantasy 14 Stormblood and having a moderate to annoying time and finally hitting the credits and going "Wow this kinda sucked!" I also remember having an 85% miserable time playing the original Persona 3 and finally hitting the end credits and deciding it was in my top 10 games of all time and absolutely worth it. You really think folks would learn to reserve judgment after how many times they've gotten into a fuss about something going "But what about X plotthread???" only to have the very next page answer it but people seem to have put themselves into the very ridiculous situation of being both Charlie Brown AND Lucy Van Pelt. Jury's out on who or what the football is in this analogy. *Reactionary can mean a lot of things here. Both literally political reactionaries being opposed to queer content within the comic and people who really need to reexamine their relationship with media. Sometimes with overlap!

Harold

A couple of people here, based on Joyce's words in panels 4 and 5, have made the logical leap (at least, it's logical to people like me who are old enough to remember the song and - possibly - the movie from which it came) of suggesting "Up Where We Belong" as background music for this moment. And so, here is yet another fantasy fanart request: Joyce, in a full-dress U.S. Navy uniform, carrying Dorothy, in jeans and a plaid shirt. Dorothy may or may not be wearing Joyce's cap.

Smoochie

I empathize. After not getting Walky having a rage like a Barbarian in D&D, I’ve more or less made my peace with whatever goes on now. Maybe we’ll get back to Joe, maybe it’ll be a convo with Dina.

Smoochie

@Astariel is it really that hard to believe people get invested on the wellbeing of characters? Yes. The culmination of fifteen years has finally come to pass. Yes, Dorothy and Joyce are going to do a love, eternal. Yes, this is several victory laps for all those who shipped them or were waiting for this moment. But you can really fault those of us for having other favorite characters and are chomping at the bit of how this punch to character relationships affects them?

Tessea

Typo in panel 4? Shouldn't it be either 'You found your way...' or 'You'd find your way...' I could be wrong, but 'You'd found' feels off to me.

Rob McBobson

I think it's meant to be like in this example sentence: "There were so many times you were here, because you'd found your way up here with me."

Tessea

While Joyce DOES need to get to that conversation ASAP, from an in-world perspective It's only been a few hours since Joyce last saw Joe. Sunday morning - Sunday afternoon. And with all that's been going on in those few hours she's likely just forgotten. I'm sure something will remind her soon enough. (Spotting a weighted blanket, perhaps?)

tifani

And if Joyce sees that blanket and uses it as a reminder to pause things long enough to fill Dorothy in on Joe’s boyfriend status and THEN Dorothy wants to fuck I will fully bless this union. I’ll spread rose petals on the goddamn bed. All I’m asking is for fully informed consent. I get that kills some of the romance for some people a bit but if it makes it better the information could lead to an angry fuck? We like those! It’s just…aren’t we over the sitcom shenanigans even a little bit? (This entire situation more or less fully happened on an episode of himym btw.)Because you know what happens if she waits until after to say something and Dorothy actually does get mad? Then that means everything leading up to that entire moment becomes tainted! I feel like everyone rooting for them to just go for it are really taking it for granted that Dorothy will be super chill about this after the fact. Ms. Notorious Control Freak? Ms. Let’s check all the boxes on A and B before we get to C? THIS GIRL is going to be okay with finding out the guy she thought was no longer a factor is still fully a factor?

Anna K

Andrea, why the personal attack? For months, you repeatedly posted on Joe/Joyce strips about how much you disliked the pairing, how you wished for Joyce/Dorothy instead, how you were disappointed to be reading the story you were reading. I was one of the people who disagreed with you, but I never called you a "whiny entitled loser" for your opinion, nor do I recall seeing anyone else do so. Now your ship has achieved victory, I would hope you're capable of remembering and having empathy for the postion of "person not 100% enjoying the current storyline", rather than hurling childish insults.

tifani

@anna k the backlash to any backlash is getting kind of cringeworthy tbh. This is not a good look for you @andrea. This relationship started with a cheating plot. The events have not been fully resolved. Feelings are gonna happen. Relax. And lashing out at a comment that could not have been more polite about just being kind of sad? That’s just needlessly mean. And if that’s the kind of atmosphere you genuinely want right now just please be aware “we whiny, entitled losers” are fully prepared to return that energy. Don’t start problems for yourself because you’re a little bit bitter other peoples feelings are making things slightly less fun for you. That’s what kids do.

MST3K.fan: The Cheesy Movie Essays

It's kinda funny, I'm new to this Patreon and am counting down to the main site seeing this strip and freaking out. I expect a Slipshine underneath it too.

I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams

IF Joyce and Dorothy fuck (key word being if) i do think thats an incredible escalation of the same “oh shit oh no” stakes that the “Joyce gives Joe a BJ” strip gave. Love it when horny delights come with horny consequences.

Astariel

Return that energy? You guys have been putting that out at full blast practically every strip for months now.

Astariel

@Smoochie - No, I don't fault people for that. I want to know what's going to happen with Joe, too! But I don't think it needs to be reiterated endlessly in the comments to every single Joyrothy strip. It seems like a lot of people don't care about the actual characters or events on the page at all, only in how they impact Joe. When we have strips that focus on characters that I don't care about so much, like Ethan or Walky or Asma, I don't come in and complain about how boring this is and can we please get back to Joyrothy. To me, that just seems polite, both to the author and to the readers who do care strongly about those characters. I feel like it would be nice if that same consideration was showed to the characters I care about.

Astariel

Because she did do that. That's what Raye's arguing, and she's right.

tifani

Are you serious? From my point of view all we’ve been doing is bothering to acknowledge the actual reality of everything going on instead of doing what a lot of you seem to be right now which is just plugging your ears and basically going “la la la la la I’m not listening!” to anything that isn’t just full and total support of a relationship that came out of a situation that is way more complicated than you guys are even willing to acknowledge the reality of let alone admit. Basically what it feels like is that you want the freedom to enjoy these two in some kind of bubble completely removed from any and all context of the continued existence of any of the other characters or relationships that people are invested in. Cut to now where the reception you seem to demand is just full blown celebration like this is something that happened with absolutely no larger stakes and now if anyone bothers to ask for information on any of the other characters who continue to exist that we’ve waited weeks for any kind of information on we’re basically just told to shut up and continue focusing only on what is going on between these two characters and nothing else. And please don’t bother to care about the feelings involved because it kills your good mood. Like this isn’t a wide ranging story filled with other shit going on besides this ship. And like there aren’t a lot of us with huge investment in the other characters and relationships impacted by this.

tifani

And for the record what set this whole chain of comments off was a personal attack Andrea launched at Joe for the crime of giving the mildest of criticism and saying they were a little sad. I point that out now because I see that Andrea has edited the original comment to take away the “whiny, entitled, loser” insult tossed out originally but included no actual apology to Joe or explanation about what was said. @andreaandrew Real classy move. You win all the internet points.

Logibear

Impression? Or who would sound like him? Answer is Danny either way.

Zane C

I'll be honest I don't really enter the comments on the Patreon posts much so idk how prevalent these kinds of things have been. It's just coming to such a head that I felt strongly enough to comment myself. My whole thinking about it is that although Joe has said he's fine, this was his first attempt at a serious thing and he really made such an effort to change core things about himself in that effort. Seeing it potentially ripped away (through no fault of anyone, mind, but feeling will likely still be there) has gotta hit a guy hard and I'm not looking forward to seeing it as a person who enjoys Joe's character and liked seeing his character growth

ArdieBea

A lot of us, I think, are Dorothys; we want things to be done the right way and in the right order. It makes us incredibly anxious when that doesn't happen. And a lot of us are Joyces; we want what we want and now we're learning we can finally actually HAVE what we want, we're a bit greedy with it and all too willing to ignore the messiness in order to enjoy the now. And we're still terrified that it might be taken off us, or we might be punished for actually having joy. So can we all please remember that their differences make Joyrothy stronger, and they'll get through everything ok if they keep communicating with kindness, curiosity, and respect. And so will we.

Waifu Purplebutt

Unless it happened off-screen, which seems highly unlikely for Willis to do, she has not done so. This is dishonest, and not a good way to treat someone you love until you've had a conversation with them about it.

Elizabeth

I am, perhaps, too much of a Dorothy in my personal life according to these descriptions, but I desperately wish to be or to have a Joyce in my life. Maybe that’s why I react so negatively (privately) to the paladins, I want these two characters to have this because I want the same thing, and if two fictional characters can… eh, probably not, but a girl can dream. Eh, maybe this is too personal, but I really appreciate your comment because it made me think about them, myself, the paladins, etc.

ArdieBea

I'm not sure which I am, myself, Elizabeth. I relate a lot to Joyce as a recovering fundie, but I also think that in a lot of my life I'm very Dorothy - and maybe that's why I love Joyce so very much.

KittyKai

This is actually one of the reasons I love this ship so much; I've spent so much of my life being a Dorthy, and I want to break free of all of that and become a Joyce. Someone whom follows with her heart first and foremost, and maybe she may leave some carnage in her wake, but as I go on in life I'm realizing that's better than never following your heart at all. ... easier said than done, granted, but BABY STEPS

ArdieBea

@Kai, both Pratchett and Tolkien taught us that we often need fiction to help us imagine the reality we need to create. I think what Willis does here is help us to find ourselves in our messiness, and to grow along with his characters. Yes, taking baby steps.

tifani

@purplefloof I don’t think there’s much point in arguing with people who have shown they’re apparently just fully willing to make up an alternate reality where a break up that didn’t happen happened just so they can enjoy something guilt free.

tifani

Anyway guys it’s been…fucking terrible. I’m going to turn into a lurker for a bit for the sake of my own sanity. If you’re happy about me shutting up idc. If you’ll miss me 😘 I’m always heeeeere.✌️

Waifu Purplebutt

@Tifani I am astounded that you're agreeing with me on this given our past arguments, but I'm glad SOMEONE gets it

Railway Series Book Club

i'm very much a dorothy, and it's deeply upsetting to say that aloud after posting so many unhinged posts about her

tifani

@purple floof enemy of my enemy etc…but seriously I feel like any past disagreements we’ve had have been relatively minor and at the moment the comments have devolved into a really weird place. You seem to be on team acknowledge reality so I’ve got no problem backing you up. No hard feelings about past bs.