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jessie H

Lucifer might not be able to do anything, but what about Lilith? Charlie said she thrived.

xman t

Obviously, Charlie's wrong. And i feel very sad for vaggie and extremely sad for lucifer. But ngl, i still can't really be all that upset at Charlie. *We* know that vox would spin things no matter what(especially after reveals in episode 6), but from charlie's pov, i can absolutely see why she feels threatening vox was the worst thing they could possibly do. You can't promote peace by flaunting power the way lucifer tried to with vox, and peace is exactly what charlie is trying to bring. And Charlie knows that she messed up before. She never denied that it was her words that vox twisted previously. She's not being a hypocrite. She's basically saying what they did added fuel to the fire that she was trying to die down after making it, or like they're throwing lighter fluid on a fire she started while she was out grabbing a bucket of water to use

xman t

51:53 leviathan, sin of envy most likely

RiekerVerse

Charlie needs what i like to call a rectal craniectomy; "remove head from ass"

Sayo_fan23

I think its funny how Vox says "lets make Hell great again". I wonder if thats an intentional nod to you know who

Alyssa Hopkins

I'm pretty sure the constraints are the fact that Rosie owns Alastor's soul. He can't make his own moves because she dictates everything he can do while under her deal. His powers only changed when Adam hurt him and now he's weaker because he's hurt and his staff is broken. I'm pretty sure all that really changed for him during those 7 years was the fact that everyone fears him less. I don't think he has any other deals aside from Rosie's. I'm sure he disappeared for some huge twist reason but I don't think it's anything to do with a second deal or him losing power, and we have to remember that his deal with her started the day before he died. I think a lot of shit is weird about Alastor, but I think that part of it all is at least going to be straightforward

BGTitan

I think Charlie knows that she's messed up, but being the daughter of Pride that she is... well, she's having a hard time admitting that. Especially when she's so angry and desparate. And like, yes, Vaggie is right of course and I'm so happy she finally spoke the truth. To play devil's advocate for a second here, Charlie learned redemption is possible and that she's not crazy (at least not in that way) after years of everyone saying her dream was impossible. Before she learned that, she was actually starting to listen to Vaggie more but then Emily's announcement caused her to hyperfixate again. And, as someone else pointed out, you can't promote peace with violence or threats, so Luci going there was very contradictory to their whole goal and yeah ended up giving Vox even more ammo. Again, I'm not saying Charlie is even close to being in the right but I see why she's acting like this. As much of a sweetheart as Charlie can be and as much as her intentions are good, she's always been like this and she doesn't see the damage she causes until it's too late. People also seem to forget that Charlie gets a lot of her traits from her dad, and that Luci was a pretty absent father. Their relationship is also still mending (which frankly I'm glad to see because I always thought their resolution last season was so quick). Which, speaking of Luci, he wasn't even gonna do anything until his own Pride was being wounded by the thought of Al helping his daughter. He was literally just gonna lay down and sulk again.

LikeCat

44:00 Whats up with ominious red eyes in shows that I watch - from MN (at only 115) to now THIS. Totally different context, but still he haunts me wherever I go.

Suplee215

For me, the term "selfish" is heavily determined by the motive. Its something that benefits you as the reason. I sure do think shes in the wrong though and being motivated by pride. Language is tricky though. I tend to go with the idea of definations being descriptive and not prescriptive. Hope this isnt too much into the semantics weeds.

Eliteguard99

Ice cold take: it’s perfectly normal for couples/partners/spouses to have verbal arguments/fights. Being different from each other is part of being human and not everyone is a cold emotionless machine who makes 100% logical decisions at all times. Also if your relationship hinges on never having an argument with your partner your relationship is doomed to fail and will not last.

Eliteguard99

The daughter of the devil that embodies the Sin of Pride is too PROUD to admit that she was WRONG?! SAY IT AIN’T SO!\s

Yoshinatorsaurus

The "leash" isn't making Alastor weaker, he just hates being under Rosie's command. He feels like THAT'S stifling him. Alastor is still just as powerful as he was when he made the deal, he's just weakened due to his injury from Adam. Also, I'm sorry you're sick. I hope you feel better soon. 💜

Liam Gradwell

So glad that Mosco finally got vindicated for Vaggie’s scene. I know how much she’s wanting Vaggie to finally let Charlie see how much damage her pride has made.

CrowOfAFeather

What Charlie has been doing is not okay and yes, upsetting, but people calling her stupid or getting TOO upset with her is ridiculous. She's the daughter of the Sin of Pride She's hyperfixated now that she knows her dream isn't a pipedream anymore She is WRITTEN to have character flaws; no-one likes a Mary-Sue who is just perfect and can't do any wrong. I don't condone her actions, but as we find out in the next episodes, we come to understand her perspective. I feel that she gets a lot of unwarranted hate simply because she isn't acting the way some people want, and as if she had the knowledge of us the viewers. Really anxious for next week, but also super hyped!

TheOcelotKing

I dont really blame Charlie for how she has reacted to everything. Its obviously not the right thing to do, but I think most people would crack and lash out under this kind of pressure. I think how people treat Charlie is a good reflection of how mental health is treated online in general.

Yoshinatorsaurus

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the reason Pentious can't go back to Hell is because winners physically cannot leave Heaven, just like how sinners can't leave the Pride Ring.

Flufux

All of the Sins sent gifts to Lucifer to get him to come back, and I'm pretty sure the big hat was a gift from Satan.

BigPoppaJohn89

I think its because Charlie is the daughter of The Sin of Pride that's why she does what she does, blaming everyone but herself and not listening to anyone when they tell her something and trying to fix things on her own. Her Pride gets in the way of things.

ELS_Art

Hope you get well soon! Also I am so glad a show finally has the guts to write a female protagonists that’s flawed and has changes they need to make. As someone who’s favorite character is Vaggie it was so satisfying seeing her finally tell off Charlie after her Crash out this episode.

Someday Sera

Levi = Leviathan the sin of Envy, we see her very briefly in mastermind, she's the two headed water demon in the courtroom, her and belphegor (Sloth, the sleepy goat/baphomet demon in that scene) are the two sins we haven't met properly in Helluva Boss. (one of Charlie's exe's in the old lore was Sevithan, presumably her son, we see a quick shot of him in a prom photo on the wall in the pilot (in the scene introducing alastor)

Someday Sera

I believe so, the angels can travel back and forth because they aren't subject to the rules of salvation/damnation, they just live/work there. Human souls sinners/winners can't travel back and forth, or to earth, with the possible rare exception of be redeemed or falling, but it's a one way trip.

Someday Sera

sure, and this will ultimately likely be a moment of growth, vaggie stood up for herself rather than being a co-dependent doormat. Charlie will, eventually cool down and be more willing to listen, and they can talk it out, and move forward as equal partners. Hopefully.

Someday Sera

As for Abel, I don't think there is anything more sinister, given the mythology what he's showing is likely who he is, I think he exists more to A) probably get killed by Lute or Vox and B) as a means of introducing Adam's other, more violent son, a potential ally to Lute in her quest for vengeance, Cain.

Someday Sera

Also, I maintain my belief that Alastor's body is fake, that the shadow we see is the actual alastor. His body is somewhat of a scarecrow, and it being damaged has say...reduced the pressure, like a hydralic system with a leak. We've seen some other indications that his power is straining, trying to burst free, as if the body was a totem containing or anchoring his true self. Which would also suggest...he's completely free while tied up, and is only playing along with being bound. Still, it doesn't answer the question of how this scheme helps free him from rosie. I could see him using it to goad charlie into killing vox to save him and/or Lucifer, especially since vox can't hurt charlie under his deal with alastor, but unless Rosie's condition was corrupting charlie I don't see that helping with her. Especially since charlie's deal with Alastor explicitly included her not hurting anybody.

Someday Sera

It is, back during the campaign Vivzie posted something on blue sky about referencing the political situation in the us, then lamented that real life started to imitate her exaggerated reference a little too close for comfort. Which...unfortunately...yeah.

Someday Sera

yep, we actually briefly see her (them?) in mastermind. The two headed fish demon in the jury. One of the two sins we haven't met properly (the other being belphegor, a sleepy goat/baphomet demon also present (the sin of sloth)

xman t

True. Plus, while their intentions were pure, lucifer and vaggie did pretty much do the worst thing they could by threatening vox. Charlie is not just trying to promote the hotel, she's trying to promote peace between heaven and hell. Having lucifer flaunt his power and threaten sinners won't cause any kind of peace.

Ryan

I prescribe a Colorado Cold Remedy - chips and jalapeno queso, with extra cayenne. Burn those sinuses open! The fact that Sir Pentious couldn't come to Hell and that they didn't mention he was redeemed had me shouting at the screen. They can't even show him? I get that we're close to the end of act three and have to get to the all is lost moment but for fucks' sake. Vox understand the difference between being a villain and a super villain. Doctor: "Ma'am, are you aware that your blood pressure is 180 over 120?" Mosco: "I CAN BE NORMAL ABOUT CARTOONS!" Doctor: "...right. Nurse! 10ccs of Diazepam! Stat!"

Pikagirl

Is that Striker's hat?

Tintros

I still can't believe that Lucifer got such a KICK ASS song.. and then nothing.

Hulk Lover

Rosie gave him power, but he's still constrained to do what she wants him to. If he didn't have to listen to Rosie, Alastor would be a much bigger menace.

David Johnson

Charlie is an only child of an incredibly rich family...it's amazing she's as good a person as she is.

Hulk Lover

This is why Pride is one of the seven deadly sins (and also the ring they're actually in)

Moonas

I mean that's why Lucifer made Goetia and sins (what Vivz comfirm lately, that's why Goetia are mostly birds), he is stronger then them, he can hurt them so they need to listen to him (I think that's why he have gifts from them to come back, bc of Satan) and they can hurt sinners.

Stephen Mumford

"My doctor's appointment's in an hour, and I can't miss it!" Ah, okay, so this will be a shorter reaction today, so... *notices runtime of 55 minutes* Hmm. I hope that doctor's office was just next door!

Pandora

Alastor's deal with Rosie was to make him the most powerful sinner in all of Hell., but she needs him to do something for her. In Don't You Forget Alastor says: "I've served you faithfully for an age, obeyed commands, contained my rage." He does not have full reign to do what he wants. He's forced to be at the hotel, and almost died for it. He's currently weak right now because of his wound from Adam, as well as his staff getting broken

stvpett

I mean it seems like there was a bit of lore in Lucifer's song. He called himself a "living aspect of the infinite." That sounds pretty impressive. I wonder if all the angels are or if this actually marks him out as uniquely powerful. I mean based on the original kind of backstory we got at the very beginning of the series in season 1 it seemed like he was kind of equal to the other angels and they cast him down. But one wonders if he was actually more powerful than them. I get the impression it really isn't up to them who shows up where or even if someone is "cast down." So they wouldn't necessarily need to be more powerful than him for him to end up cast down.

KriszGamer00

Everyone is asking why they can't bring Pentious down. Like...Come on people. Human soul is not able to leave Hell, I'm pretty sure math is mathing when I say human souls can't leave Heaven either. Like..At all. The angels and demons can travel between the realms since they are not mortal. But they can't take souls with them, otherwise the plot would be meaningless. Charlie could just open a portal and take souls with her into Heaven.

Deanholder De

1, in that case Vox's invasion of heaven would be a non-issue. 2, Charlie brought Vaggie to heaven and still thought she was a sinner.

KriszGamer00

1. Vox's plan WOULD BE an issue, because he is not dumb. He would not do this if he wouldn't have a plan. As for how he would get up there-Semantics Dean. Semantics. (PS. It's all about the power of bluffing. He would not make such threats if he would not have a way, or at least that's what you would think.) 2. Not like Charlie crossed between realms before. And in hindsight....Do you really think Charlie would even think before acting in that situation?

Dru Freeman

You have a fantastic eye for animation, Mosco. At the end of episode 8 you are floored by the final animation on the song. I guess it just shows how good the story was; you didn’t react to the camera swung thru and around Vox’s Mock Manifistation right after he declares himself Omega. I’m certain seeing it again will also please you animation wise.