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RWBY v8 chps9&10 Witch & Ultimatum (Patreon)

Published:
2026-05-02 16:00:07
Edited:
2026-05-02 21:27:19
Imported:
2026-05
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Comments

SauceyRed

Been waiting all day for this to drop, I’m SO fucking ready! I almost timed it perfectly, I’ll be home in a few minutes.

Matthew bauer

My foods ready and my body is ready ive been waiting for these two for a bit haha

LaviPastelQueen

Woo hoo let's go let the normal sh** storm begin lol

BGTitan

Ep 9: Favorite episode of the volume. Hands down, though it’s also by a slim margin. This whole volume is just too good. “It’s going to be like finding a needle in a… giant… whale… Why did we think this was a good idea?” I love Barb’s delivery this episode, she really killed it. “Summer Rose. My mom.” Love the reminder that Summer was Yang’s mom too, the only mom she knew for however short a time that was (Yang was about five/six years old when Summer left for that mission and presumably died). That opening shot of the battlefield is so good. Because Grimm disintegrate, they don’t leave bodies behind. So, zooming past the field and seeing all the dead soldiers is extra disheartening because it looks like they haven’t made any progress. Might as well not have with how Monstra can make more but still. Realizing that “Hazel” was stumbling not because he’s a bad actor but that it was Oscar is such a cool moment. The thing is Winter’s not wrong either. Every second they waste more soldiers are dying from an endless onslaught of Grimm. Like, yeah, we want her to break free from Ironwood but in this instance, I totally get why she’s prioritizing the bomb right now. The visual of Salem burning, a literal burning of the witch, is sooooo good. Like, Hazel acting as the stake she’s “tied” to while she burns is just… I love this visual so much. Whoever came up with that specific visual needed a raise. And then her angry screams on top of that? I don’t even think it’s pain, she’s just pissed off. UGH I LOVE THIS EPISODE SO MUCH! And then we had to wait two weeks after this episode because of a freak ice storm that hit Texas (where RT was located). While I totally understand prioritizing your people over the show, yes please make sure everyone is safe, I won’t lie this cliffhanger was brutal! lol Ep 10: This episode is such a visual treat! Like let’s just give it up to the animators and lighting techs, they really pushed themselves this episode and did such an outstanding job. That opening bit with Oscar’s Magic Nuke was just so visually stunning, but also the golden haze of the aftermath! Beautiful! I could also just gush over the cinematography of this episode, not only for the neat transitions but for the entirety of the Watts and Cinder conversation as well. The camera movement choices were top tier. Speaking of, I genuinely adore the scene where Watts lays into Cinder. Chris Sabbot really goes all in for this and it’s so satisfying. Not to mention, I can respect how Watts was like “whelp, she’s going to drop me no matter what I say so I might as well go out telling her she ain’t shit.” He even lets go of her arm! But of course, once he’s safely back on the roof he has that moment where he’s like “oh thank Brothers I’m not dead.” Lol That scene between Ironwood and the Ace Ops always leaves me so tense. James has become so unpredictable at this point, so I genuinely wasn’t sure what was going to happen when Harriet snitched on Winter. You can even see Winter trembling slightly as Harriet tells him what happened. Winter looks so terrified and young in that shot. It’s so easy to forget she’s around 24 at most. But in that moment, you can almost picture her as a kid under Jacques’s thumb. I think this is the moment she realizes she’s still stuck in a similar situation, just on a much bigger scale. Actually, there’s some parallel to Cinder in that regard. The reunion is such a sweet scene like oh my god it’s so soft. I’m dead! Yang’s hug and spin with her sis, her hug with Weiss, and then the cheek caress and forehead touch with Blake! I’m dying! And lastly, Ironwood’s ultimatum. The lighting in that scene holy shit! Not to mention Jason Rose’s voice acting was appropriately chilling. Well done, sir! Side note: I do love the look Watts and Cinder share during the broadcast like “aren’t we supposed to be the bad guys here?”

Riley

Oscar's semblance is the green shield around him. Ozpin's magic is the whiteish gold stuff that destroyed the whale.

Adrian ruiz martinez

Ironwood is a theater kid at heart I swear this bitch is so dramatic lol

Dafydd Mac an Leigh

The other fairy tale that hasn't come back up yet is another one Pyrrha mentioned, "The Shallow Sea". It's included in the book Fairy Tales of Remnant, but so far (as of these episodes) it's had no bearing on the story

Dreanner95

I wanted Blake and Yang to kiss too when I first watched the episode, but seeing how it ended I totally get why this moment was not a perfect moment after all.

SauceyRed

God Watts' monologue with Cinder always hits SO hard, still one of my favorite scenes in the entire show

SauceyRed

I absolutely love when reactors get to the ultimatum lmao

Adrian ruiz martinez

Thats not the alarm system, that was the whale screaming in pain cos salem is ripping apart is insides to get to them.

BrightHeart

In regards to Oscar/ozpins weapon long memory. It stores kinetic energy so the explosion was essentially all that stored kinetic energy over centuries. Finally being released.

Albedo12

I hate that Ironwood ends up here, but I really appreciate how gradual and earned the journey was. If you rewatch, you can absolutely see him as someone from day 1 who could sink to this level of obsession.

bloodyshadow1

the scary thing is, with all the dust in him, Hazel is probably the strongest human (non magical) on remnant, even without that much he was tossing around Qrow and Ozpin (in Oscar''s body, but the soul was in control). and he was absolutely nothing against Salem

Rupert Anderson Jr

My favorite parts are 1. Watts calling out Cinder on her bullshit. Easily the best performance from his VA and 2. Ironwood basically saying "Everyone's talking about Mantle this, and Mantle that. And you know what? FUCK Mantle! I'm gonna blow it up!" Ironwoods descent into madness has been fascinating to watch.

Rana Saleh

I always find it so telling when Ironwood highlights protecting Atlas's technology and future, but never its people. Just shows how far gone he is at this point compared to Volume 7, where he did appear to at least somewhat care about innocent lives.

Moonas

I will say it again. If your sister would die in chemistry accident in school bc she decided to add something she shouldn't bc she wanted to be chemist, would u blame teacher / principal or your sister? Both are schools, both knew that can end with accident but they did it anyway.

Suplee215

I think with Hazel they needed to highlight exactly what Ozpin did. Ozpin manipulated and controlled all of society for at least 100 years to fight this war. He keeps a secret council and have academies of child soldiers. Very few huntsman actually know what they are fighting. Theres a decent argument that hiding the true history of the world while training kids tonfight justifies Hazel's position. But thats never directly said and it takes reading some leaps to get there.

Zirkumflex

Watts' monologue to Cinder is great. It all is true. However it not only applies to Cinder but Watts as well. He does have his blind spot for his own arrogance. And if you thought the cliffhanger after Witch was bad, we had to wait an extra week because Texas froze over.

Phoenix_mercury

Tbf the academies are actually needed to train huntsmen for the Grimm, either way the Grimm are a problem that need to be managed

Phoenix_mercury

The adult for not paying attention and the kid for not doing as instructed, from someone who's younger sibling has been hurt at school, he did choose to ignore what he was told, the teacher wasn't paying proper attention to the kids

That1blindkid

The worst part about watching these episodes on release was that Texas had an arctic freeze that knocked the state down for like 2 weeks. we had a nearly month long wait between episodes 9 and 10

Suplee215

The exact method huntsman are trained is not needed thiygh. The 4 academies system was created by Ozpin in a pass life. Partly to help protect the secret relics. And the academies, at least currently and likely always, are led by people part of Ozpin's secret society who answer to him. I thibk the system is a fair one and for the best. But it isnt a big stretch to look at it as Ozpin is the secret person in charge of the world government controlling the world and sending kids to their deaths. Now how much you value transparency vs safety comes into play as its a fair point to keep salem and the maidens and stuff a secret for those reasons but she also wanted to be kept a secret too. I am not saying ozpin was objectively wrong. Just that if I found out there is 1 man secretly running the world and causing shit to haopen I would not trust that man either

Rixec2

While she'd have a lot to do and would need a short leash, I would try trusting Emerald. And as for Hazel, I do think his redemption moment does work when we consider the order of his journey. When we first learned his motives, it was simply blaming Ozpin for Gretchin's death when it was just a routine mission gone south. But this volume we learned Hazel DID try to take out Salem first. He killed her so many times over, again and again, but she always returned. Salem likely allowed Hazel to keep killing her, wearing down not only his body but his will as well. Left him with nothing left but to accept death when his efforts were fruitless. That fighting her was like fighting a hurricane. Then she offered another solution to him. That he could have his vengeance on the other side of the equation in killing Ozpin. Because the difference is the current body will die and Ozpin will take longer to return and establish himself, lessening his power in influencing things. When you wear someone down so much, they'll accept what is and will take up any other possibility just to hold themselves together. I've seen that in recent times, with people resigning themselves to our current circumstances, thinking that even though they hate it, there's no way to fight it, so better to accept what they offer.

Phoenix_mercury

The system of having academies to train the next generation of huntsmen is a needed one, yes they also double to protect the relics but the academies themselves are needed even without the secret stuff, though yes keeping certain stuff secret is smart and it would be dumb to just "hey world theirs 4 people that can use magic that exist and are specifically young girls!" And put that into the world, the Salem stuff too to a degree like the inherent panic from just "hey world theirs this entity that can't be killed and wants all of remnant destroyed" yeah... Telling the world that totally won't have it panicking, I also don't even want to know/think about how many "Leo's" he's had over his many Lifetime's, like talk about fking trust issues... Worlds messiest divorce fr🤣

Geass

16:45 Don't get your hopes up. At the rate they are going, Jaune will have white hair before Blake and Yang hook up.

Dayash

We are finally at This stage of the volume…LOL

Suplee215

I'll trust emerald because she helped rescue Oscar. Actions speak louder than words and that is a big action.

CB Jones

Honestly my favourite part of it, and why I think it works so well, is that while he gets less stable and more extreme in methods he essentially hasn't changed WHAT he's doing since the start of Vol8. We're introduced to him refusing to fix the walls of Mantle, while Grimm charge through the streets no less, because he wants the resources for his plan for Amity to secure Atlas. He's willing to let people in Mantle die to protect Atlas from day 1, now at the end he's doing the same thing. Just more directly, and on a more horrific scale. It's why the change feels so obvious in hindsight, it wasn't much of a change at all.

Suplee215

There coukd be 7 academies. Or 8. Or the primaries school could go all the way or it could ve on the job training. Maria became the top huntswoman without the academies. It isnt needed. Personally im always for truth and transparency and I do think its more debatable than your quick dismissal.

Rachel Mae

Ironwood: "I've always promised to protect this kingdom, its technology, it's future" James you forgot the fucking people who live in the kingdom buddy

CaptainChar

general jimbob has lost his mind, and that makes him more dangerous then Salem at the moment

Joey Visser

About Oz's Semblance, I've been thinking about something: What if Oz doesn't have a Semblance. He was alive when Magic was around so maybe he has magic But no Semblance. Oscar tho...no friggin clue

Ann_Temki

Btw, there’s meant to be an epilepsy warning on episode 10 but the versions with the opening/endings cut out doesn’t have it

CB Jones

It's not a major theme, but I do like the contrast the show draws between faith and bravery in Jaune and Yang. Jaune isn't afraid because he has faith they'll succeed, Yang is very much afraid but she throws herself into a fight with Salem without hesitation, then baits her further to protect Oscar. It's a nice bit of continuity for Yang and a neat way to show the different ways our heros manage to commit to such perilous tasks.

James Derrick

The green energy was Oz's magic, the golden light was from the cane

TheRavenWanderer

Yeah... I'm really looking forward to see that Neo Pass tested soon.

RaisedEyebrow

"I heard a female voice, and I panicked!" -Mosco, 2026 That being said, I actually disagree regarding your correlation between trust and forgiveness. I don't know if you've watched Legend of Korra. But to keep spoilers minimal, there's a very powerful episode that deals with this theme. There's also a very prominent meme with spoiler images: Forgiveness does not mean trust. Trust does not mean forgiveness. Yes, they CAN compliment and enhance one another. But they aren't mutually inclusive.

Chris P3

Also Ren's an empath now and he vouched for her.

Arashi

Oh, you were tweaking after the end of chapter 9? Man isn't is so nice that you have chapter 10 immediately on hand? It's not like you had to wait TWO WEEKS to find out like those of us watching initially. So much stress and anxiety in that time before chapter 10 was released. Yes, they had very valid reasons for the delay but... the wait was horrible. Watts claimed to have never bothered finding his semblance, this was clearly a lie as he used Roast on Cinder with massive success. I do like the continuity check that the doors to Ironwood's office are still dented from RWBY's fight with the Ace Ops the day before. Yes, do need to remember it's maybe only been 24 hours since the end of volume 7. Neo remains a trolling little shit and menace to society, and despite knowing better, we love her for it. And we end off very firmly declaring Ironwood's position in the story.

Ryan

Chapter 9: "Ninjas of Love" is the Team STRQ autobiography. Written by Summer Rose. Salem has a signed copy. Chapter 10: With friends like James, who needs enemies?

Anime Kid67

The next few episodes are going to hurt her

LAN

DAMN! I SAW WHAT YOU DID THERE!

Cinder's Apologist

good catch on the fairy tales! because YES, THOSE MATTER! this show is not only based off of fairy tales from our world, but it relies on fairy tales as both a form of history and symbolism for things to be later revealed or pieces of lore to be inferred. (also highly recommend acquiring the book "Fairy Tales of Remnant" if you want to dig into the lore while waiting for v10) YUP NEO IS A TRICKY LITTLE BITCH! and we love her for it ;D but also, it makes it rather funny to see both you and Elijah adoring her as much as you do when... *gestures at Neo's overall behavior* not the gay detector! I mean, er, Ren's improved Semblance >.> (no offense but maybe ditch the headphones if having the noise directly in your ears is an issue? I get that's probably not a feasible answer, but I would imagine it might help a little for those moments when the 'unpleasant sounds' pop up...) yep, getting a good dose of toxic exes all around, though I would point out that in the Ozlem divorce, Salem wasn't the only issue there... because Ozma was sent back deliberately to oppose her (just to spite her) and then deceived her by keeping his purpose hidden. ah yes, the Summer Rose mention... so annoying how we don't get straightforward answers huh :3:3:3 re: Hazel - I agree that we should get more of Gretchen's deal because there's a lot of potential with that story, namely how it could intersect with another plot point or two in compelling ways. but I think the main takeaway there is that while his anger towards Oscar was wrong, he did have a point regarding Ozpin... in the meta sense, Ozpin really did develop a pattern of sending children off to fight a war they did not understand against an entity they could not kill. that's why Team RWBY got so mad with him back in v6. Hazel's anger wasn't entirely without merit; his remark "no more Gretchens" is an attempt to urge Oscar (the new Oz) to not repeat that fatal mistake of sacrificing children in an endless war - like Pyrrha :'( on the flip side, his last act being in the spirit of "I can't win this fight, but I will fight nonetheless"... THAT is very much at the heart of what the story is about, what Team RWBY is about even if they don't know it yet ;)

Cinder's Apologist

LMAO never heard that take on "Ninjas of Love" but that would be so hilarious if it became canon XD

CrowOfAFeather

No, that was Ozpin's magic as well. He did the same thing in his battle against Cinder in V3. Oscar doesn't have a Semblance yet, he's just using the magic given by Ozpin.

Riley

Ah gotcha. I just thought he wouldn't be able to do magic without the cane just yet. Nvm

Bowser's Rage Stage

Ironwood: (Justifies occupying Vale by saying that Ozpin's students can't fight in wars) Also Ironwood: (Puts first years on the front lines without any hesitation) Even at the start of this show, he's always had a "rules are for thee, not for me" mindset. It's crazy when you go back and see just how much set up his fall had. (PS, I love the implication that Cinder took a photo of Neo without asking so she can have a profile picture for her contact info, the idea that Cinder's one of those people who can't stand a blank contact photo is very funny) (PPS, narratively speaking, I don't think it'd be a good idea to have Blake and Yang kiss there because then you'd immediately follow up the main sapphic couple finally get together after 8 seasons of build up with Ironwood screaming "I HAVE A FUCKING NUKE!")

RiekerVerse

I've always loved Watts' monologue, but I especially appreciate Cinder's response; for a moment we are reminded that for all she has taken from our protagonists, she has lost so much; her eye, her arm, a piece of her soul belongs to the maiden powers, she gave up so much of her humanity, and yet she seems destined to be Sisyphus, it's a powerful reminder that despite everything she's done, and what she's become, she's still just that same scared girl she always was.

Cinder's Apologist

so. Ultimatum. such a good episode >:3 yeah Neo is such a little shit, and we love her for it. I've seen quite a few takes on that moment between Cinder and Watts by now, and at this point I chalk it up to "Worst guy you know just made a good point." yes, what Watts is saying is generally correct, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a complete ass towards Cinder. I also get tired of people just assuming Cinder failed at Haven because she bit off more than she could chew because Revenge(TM), when if you just take another look, she simply got outmaneuvered by Raven who took a shitty hand and played it to her favor juuust enough to get her way. not just Vernal being a decoy, but essentially forcing Cinder to give her SOMETHING to ensure her cooperation. in other words, Cinder failed because she did not have all the information and Raven was the actual Maiden - which btw WATTS DID NOT FUCKING KNOW!! and he is more than willing to throw Cinder under the bus because he's a pretentious prick, so I am loathe to give him too much credit in this scene. gonna have to respectfully disagree on the forgiveness thing... I get it and to each their own! however, I believe the point here is more "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." sure, trust matters, but that does not require total absolution for past crimes; unfortunately, there are plenty of examples in our world where people who despise each other still join forces because they have a common goal, however fleeting it is. but also, what Oscar says here is very likely meant to set up a pattern for later in the show... because I don't think Emerald will be the last 'villain' to be defecting, and they are going to need as many allies as they can get, which sometimes means working with people you hate. now I LOVE the scene in Ironwood's office. personally find it to be underrated as far as top tier scenes go in RWBY. everything about it - the lighting, the music, the tension, WINTER - just so good and shows how far the crew has come in storytelling. what gets me is not just total confirmation of Ironwood's villainy, but the way Winter so clearly realizes that she left one horrible father figure only to end up with another. also how her efforts to be a "good soldier" are in vain when she operates within a dictatorial system. speaking of which, Ironwood really is such a good villain. he is the subversion of what I understand is the trope of the military dictator type character that might normally be the hero; instead, he convinces himself that "I alone can fix it" which we start to see as far back as Beacon, and after that it just gets worse. you want to like him, you want to see him do good, but ultimately he is doomed by his hero complex and flagrant need for obedience and loyal TO HIM above all else.

CrowOfAFeather

lmao how could you mistake Emerald's voice for Salem's? "Neo is great, man" Not really. I love Yang's point about Emerald. How can you just forgive someone like that? This applies to pretty much anyone of the villains. Emerald, granted, showed early on that she didn't like what happened, and has consistently proven that she only followed Cinder because she felt that she owed her. Trust is earned, as Winter put it. And forgiveness isn't an easy thing to do, especially if you have a track-record of theft, murder, etc. And this is not exclusive to Emerald. Interesting to hear your thoughts on Emerald like this while you and Elijah are so gung-ho about Neo being redeemable. At least you're self-aware, but Neo doesn't get a pass. She is just as bad, doesn't matter if people like her, she has a lot to answer for. Ironwood has indeed lost it. The tinman lost its heart before, and it shows more and more.

Cinder's Apologist

as for your final question: I'm biased because I have become a huge fan of Emerald, but I would trust her. not blindly so, but I would give her a chance. a hard lesson to learn is that if you want people to leave The Dark Side, you have to be willing to extend a kind hand rather than dismiss them outright, and Emerald has already shown signs of wanting out!

Cinder's Apologist

will be curious as to her views on Emerald in upcoming reactions... but yes, trust is indeed earned

DKscribe88

Ironwood's semblance is to blame for his extremism. It's called Mettle and it causes his level of conviction or resolve to get stronger and stronger, to the point where he will do anything to accomplish his goals, including insane things such as shooting transports meant to save others. And yes, I would bring Emerald on my team. She has good in her and people can change. Not everyone maybe, but most people can change if they but choose to.

Cinder's Apologist

yep, a scared girl that can't bring herself to truly admit what she really needs (which would require a bit of soul-searching, and I'm not ruling that out just yet)

Cinder's Apologist

add into that his willingness to conduct what Glynda rightly called "a triumphant display of military bravado" in response to what Ruby divulged about a hideout southeast of Vale. dude had all sorts of red flags from the get-go. LOL yes, I wish I could pull it up but somebody once took that idea of Cinder taking a pic of Neo without asking and ran with it by making a compilation of profile pics that Cinder might have saved to her scroll for the rest of Team Evil. like Emerald looking so eager and happy, and Salem posing like she's doing cover shoots for Villains Monthly XD

JHens

49:30 I don't think Ozpin/Salem have semblances. They are from a time when everyone had magic and semblances from what we know didn't exist. Also, I don't think trust is necessary for second chances. It is a risk and trust would help, but is not needed per se.

Jittercritter

I’m GUESSING based on the fact that Gretel is usually the younger sibling that Gretchen was accepted into Beacon early like Ruby was, and that’s why Hazel is so angry. He even says “she was a CHILD, she WASN’T READY!” I do wish they gave us actual confirmation on that though. I love the ambiguity of this show but there’s a such thing as too much subtlety and I think it would have been really interesting if Hazel accused Ozpin of leading Ruby down the same path as his sister or something, especially given he expressed reluctance to fight Ren and Nora in volume 5. Hazel definitely should have been fleshed out more!

Shaky Tail Studios

Love the war shots, really shows the scale RWBY operates at and how much its grown. Also gosh Monstra has to be one of my favorite monsters/fortresses in fiction! Love Yang using her humor to lighten the situation and her recurring trait of being perpetually underwhelmed by men XD Love you freezing up the second a fairytale was mentioned and the shout out to other reactors I love it. Interesting theory on the girl who fell through the world! Love Marrow's bit but also how much Elm demonstrated the Ace-Ops mentality "Have feelings about it later" (Never) "For now just kill Grimm" (Do your job) etc. Talking at Neo like she's a misbehaving cat LMAO Love the Yang & Ren scene, and your reaction to it with the Beeeees XD The subtle bit with Oscar being Hazel was such a fun trick to pull and woot Salem Naruto running! I too am fond of Marrow :3 I've heard its possible for humans to be deafened and even killed by proximity to Blue Whales making certain powerful sounds; can't imagine how difficult Monstra's pained groans would be given it drove Aura users to their knees, oof! "You guys can't fight her" Yang: But I can try! Salem still being able to function when her chest if blown out and her head is splattered is horrific, I love it. Love Salem's switch up game, gentle tones then boom, utter terror. Yang putting herself in the line of fire for her loved one's, she's so good!!! Hazel passing off the staff was a neat little detail & yeah valid on Hazel's overall arc. Looooved seeing how Dust implants work in a fight in more detail so cool, though I always have questions about Salem seemingly releasing the others from her grasp, was it just that Hazel required that much focus? I am unsure, but it could hint at something. Love how terrified the Specialists are of James. Also gods that explosion was so fucking EPIC! Honestly the Watts rant is interesting cause he's actually wrong about a lot. Cinder did beat Winter & Penny, it was the Winter Maiden and Ruby who drove her off. Meanwhile if the intel given to Cinder on the Spring Maidens ID had been accurate her plan would have worked there too. I do low key wish people would stop talking themselves out of sympathizing with Cinder, so many other villains do so much worse and never get even a fraction of the hate she does :( I do love how CRWBY approach ideas on redemption. 51:01 Love that the metal doors are still bent from Ruby XD Also gosh ironwood's plan was terrible before but now when they don't even have shields and Salem's corpse is literally on their front doorstep its even worse! Fun bit of visual language with Ironwood is every time he was getting closer to doing something unhinged in previous scenes he looked ready to smash his desk but didn't then this time he did. Honestly a little surprised few people note the similarities between Harriet and Neo given both are angry someone they cared about died and are just lashing out wildly about it by latching onto whoever gives them a sense of purpose and a goal to vengeance. Best sister reunion! Also Blake being worried cause of past experience with Adam, aaaah! There was so much good art made of that reunion when this episode came out, including Emerald looking at them like (OO) And wishing she joined the good guys early XD Ruby upon seeing Emerald "My Beacon situation-ship!" "This kingdom, its technology" No mention of the people. Also love how Ironwood always frames and treats Mantle as this sort of like... Hypothetical thing. He 100% does not see the people who live there as people. Like he straight up says if Mantle is gone there's no reason for there to be conflict between them. He feels this entirely thing is a philosophical disagreement that has gotten out of hand just like he did in V7, he refuses to acknowledge that there are actual lives at stake down there or that they have value. This is what classism does to your brain.

Shaky Tail Studios

Honestly the distinction is rather telling cause Harriet is basically Neo but in a different font. Ala self destructively avenging someone you cared about with no concern for morality but the response is very distinct.

Shaky Tail Studios

Agreed on this, I can follow the logic in the sense of "I would not trust someone I had not forgiven" but like, I've been angry at people but still trusted them, or not trusted someone while still loving them, etc. Its very situational.

Shaky Tail Studios

That's not what happened to Gretchen though? To use your analogy, her chemistry teacher gave her a genuinely dangerous homework assignment and she died doing it. I'd wanna kill the teacher too.

Shaky Tail Studios

Mhm, all of Ironwood's negative traits seen here are things he did to less extreme levels in V2, V4, and V7, just increasingly extreme as things went on.

Shaky Tail Studios

Ironwood: Yes my office needs dramatic mood lighting dammit!

CrowOfAFeather

Ironwood keeps showing at, ultimately, he's as elite-ish and snobbish as the other Atlesians of the city of Atlas; thinks so little of Mantle and never bothering to actually help them. Like you mentioned, Ironwood doesn't mention the people in his speech, and that says it all. Absolutely with you on the Cinder hate, she gets all of while others (cough cough Neo) gets so little simply because they're either "have good designs" or something.

Shaky Tail Studios

Very much agreed, for all Ironwood feels he's apart from the snobby and unaware elites, he is really just the military cadet school version of their fancy balls and hoity toity education. This is a guy who knew the vulnerabilities in his cybersecurity and never bothered to upgrade Mantle because he could not conceiver of it mattering in the grand scheme of things. Its just a few city blocks. Gosh big mood, its such a bummer, I do wonder if Cinder losing her arm and being scarred plays into it at all, and also Neo being mute making it easier to project onto her what people want to see.

KellyBunny

Yes, I would trust emerald. She was supported by someone you now KNOW you can trust (Hazel,) had her emotions read by Ren, and was on the inside. Even if you feel you can't trust her alone watching your back or something at LEAST you should be able to trust her in a group and get information from her.

Phoenix_mercury

Tbf some people see those younger than them as children regardless of age and especially those that are the elder of siblings, my uncle used to treat me like a child until I put my foot down and told him to cut the bs(I was over 18) and now we get along great now that he doesn't act like I'm 12, he could be similar and for all we know Gretchen was 17 and had completed combat school and chose beacon for her academy and hazel just didn't like her choice(an ex uncle literally cut contact with me because of something similar 🤷) but yeah would love anything resembling ages for how old they was

Phoenix_mercury

Sure they *could* do what's essentially trail by fire, or they could have safe trusted adults teach them in a safe learning environment *before* facing the Grimm. it's the same as seatbelts, people survived before we had them but that's survivors bias, people survive more now that we have them in every car, people survived Grimm and became a huntsman(though in Maria's time that wasn't a title) but that's survivors bias, what about the people that didn't succeed? Should the people just be left to fend for themselves without being able to train before facing the Grimm?

Suplee215

Nope. But the system was created the exact way it was by a secretly immortal being who was motivated to create it partly due to the war ge knows is going on in the shadows. Now I do agree with what he did. But if someone finds iut theres a secret like that, it kinda makes sense for them to see it in a more sinister light. Even if its the best that could be figured out.

Tommy Gunn

You can hear the Vegeta coming through and it makes it so much more delicious

Suplee215

Atlas in general have the flaw of looking at the structures and not the indivual people. Just look at Weiss's storyline. Its about the Schnees, the family, the company. Even abiut the roles of daughter and father and never about Weiss. Even shows up in less toxic way with the happy huntresses and mantle. And it makes sense a society based around insitution and not indivuals wanted to ban self expression of art. Changing the capital from Mantle to Atlas didnt change the society's flaws.

Suplee215

I thibk Neo is one of the best written chaotic neutral characters i have seen in a long time. Too often writers try to make a chaotic neutral character they end up just with an evil character who is charismatic or a broody chaotic good. Even with Neo fighting alongside the bad guys for almost 8 volumes its clear she doesnt share any of their values or anything and is just after what she wants. (Whether thats justified or not is another story). Neo can turn around snd attack salem or cinder at any moment and it wouldnt feel out of character or like a change of loyalty or character.

Simon Davis

I appreciate that V8 really tried to give Hazel's hatred of Ozpin more depth - the V4/5 version did feel undercooked, as Mosco's (ahem) "mentioned", but the V8 recap added much more to it: Hazel initially going after Salem, her "breaking" him by letting him kill her over and over until he exhausted himself, then telling him that Ozpin also knows she's immortal. So Hazel's original shallow "revenge for Gretchen" motivation shifts to him hating Ozpin for raising child soldiers like his sister, sending them to die like his sister, and all for a cause that he KNOWS is unwinnable; Gretchen becomes the face of all Ozpin's students.

Simon Davis

Always been my read too - I think semblances are meant to be a thing of the new world, a remnant (sorry) of the magic the pre-destruction humans like Ozma and Salem wielded freely.

Izzie Gadgets

I think if I was Yang, I would trust emerald, but I haven’t actually lived their experiences so it’s hard to tell

TheyWereMarried

The Faunus that got turned into a grimm had silver eyes.

dilemmafordays

Literally, like he's introduced as someone willing to bring his whole entire army without warning to a festival celebrating peace. It's unfortunate he got to this point but you can track his progress very easily across the series

Extragarb

Same, you can even hear the disgust in Salem’s voice when she says the word semblance. She straight up detests the idea of them

John J Ronald

It's such a small thing but the dust crystals Hazel jabs into his body to confront Salem are repping Team RWBY's colors.....Red White Black Yellow......I love this aspect of RWBY's visual storytelling.

John J Ronald

The Atlas subway system is like Londoners taking shelter during the Nazi Blitz, or Ukrainians hiding in the Kiev subway during Russian bombings....very evocative of real world stuff.

John J Ronald

A sidebar in defense of Emerald....she's been CREEPED OUT by Salem since Volume 4....no question.

John J Ronald

Soo....piloted by drones so not quite as bad.....but shooting down civilian transports IS a WAR CRIME.

Raiza Morata

You hate those noises... and for some reason, I just love them lol

marnacles

Am I crazy to say that Watt’s speech to Cinder reminds me of Iroh’s speech to Zuko in like book 2 of atla? “…And then what!? You never think these things through!”

Robert Morgan

Ozma I believe built that cane in one of his earliest lives. I recall seeing him, in the exposition that Jin gave us, placing the cane in a container as one person and taking it out as another.

Vince

Yang looking at Jaune after he does the finger guns like “REALLY? *Now* you learn how to be cute? At the END OF THE FUCKING WORLD? Fucking vomit boy.” ETA: I understand your problem with Hazel’s backstory but I don’t think you’re putting the pieces together; Hazel wasn’t murderous towards Ozpin *until he met Salem*, she convinced him that Oz started the Huntsman academies to defeat her but she can’t be killed *and he knows it*, so to Hazel, Ozpin had been training child soldiers for *multiple life times* in service of a goal he knows can’t be achieved, so his sister was a drop in the bucket that never should’ve existed. All Hazel wants is a world without child soldiers. Tbh if it had been Hazel instead of Rhodes to find young Cinder, we might not even be in this mess lmao

craig hungerford

Ninjas in love did come back up. when Blake and Sun get attacked ... he mentions fricking ninjas... then you find out illia is in love with Blake.