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Radio War Nerd EP #477 — Horses & Warfare, feat. Carolyn Willekes (Patreon)

Published:
2024-10-16 19:25:37
Imported:
2024-10
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Content

Guest: Carolyn Willekes

Recorded: October 15, 2024

The domestication of horses transformed warfare for several millennia up to the 20th-c. We talk to author Carolyn Willekes about all things-horses & ancient warfare, from dumb chariots to mounted archers...

Buy Carolyn's book, The Horse in the Ancient World From Bucephalus to the Hippodrome

Total time: 1:29:25

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

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Subscribe to Radio War Nerd at patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Sound production by Telescope Audio

Check out the Radio War Nerd Merch store here!

Order your print or ebook of John Dolan's new book Erdogan Pizza: Dispatches from a Violent & Grotesque World

Files

Comments

John Waaben

The mid-shift pod drop is much appreciated

Tariq

i believe i speak for everyone when i say: oh, hell yeah.

Tom Warner

into my veins let's go

.

This is such a great episode. When I was a kid my family moved from the Bay Area to western North Carolina to be closer to some family and my uncle had a farm with paso fino horses. It was an intense culture shock even as young as I was. We lived with them for over a year until my parents got settled with jobs to be able to take care of us kids. I was up at 5 am as a ten year old mucking stalls and taking care of them. Brushing, picking their hooves, feeding them, letting them out to graze, ect. We’d go trail riding through the mountain trails a ton. Galloping through open fields. They’re amazing animals that you can create an intense bond with. There’s a certain level of letting go when riding. It’s hard to explain to someone who hasn’t experienced it but it’s sort of symbiotic relationship where you can feel what they feel and put your trust in them.

Al Goehring

One of the best guests ever IMO

Sophia Monday

A welcome relief from the wretched present tense, as well as answers for some lingering questions from previous episodes. I'd love to hear Carolyn's take on the Arabian Wars warhorse camel phobia, as well as more info from *really* ancient (Indo European) religious beliefs about horses. And of course there's never enough time for hearing about the first technicals.

Jack Nagel

One of my favorite episodes ever

That Guy

I like how the blinkers/blinders for war effectively change the horses FOV from prey (side) to predator (forward). Great episode!

fw

Jason Kingsley, who made a popular videogame and now uses his gains to commission about every historical armourer he can, has a great few videos on medieval war horse training (he has full medieval knights harness, works with people who still fight and joust on horses as well as on ground). He grew up around horses and his insight is a really cool form of reconstructionist/experimental archeology, imho, different period and historical focus to Carolyn but complementary and visual

Jake Paterson

One of the best interviews we’ve ever had and welcome relief from the misery of the modern world The love and admiration is really apparent and beautiful throughout

fw

Ames' giggle when Carolyn says "oh god," in derision to horse sizeism and Dolan's Saki references are great, I went through a Saki phase in my mid teens and never hear anyone speak about his stories. This entire episode is a joy, can't read to read CW's book, what a wonderful guest

DaveBoy

amazing interview

Dongo

Sending love to you and your family John

Tristan

I've always liked when authors can convey how much work horses are to maintain. A random historical fiction book will always stick with me for having a scene with this Greek horseman whose pretty sure he's about to die in his next fight, is getting his tack ready and he thinks to himself "man, I think I've spent most of the hours of my life sewing horse leather..."

Bodie Tack

Loved the episode and it's a much appreciated respite from the present. Fascinating to think of horse as the pinnacle of warfare technology for thousands of years. Brings to mind the Obi-Wan quote : "An elegant weapon for a more civilized age"

Morgan

Wish they talked about the very recent introduction of horses to the new world !

zo

Awesome guest, loved this episode

DaveBoy

really think this is one of the best episodes yet. i wish it were public so i could share it with my friends

Dan

MRU is my alma mater. Good to hear about Calgary, but I fear that this episode will reinforce the myth that Calgary has anything to do with horses/cowboys.

Tom Warner

i would listen to this topic/guest for literally as many episodes as ever, hypothetically, you wanted to make

AG

Maybe in her book?

AG

Wow that's the whole movie! Thanks for sharing.

Kawaii Leonard

stampede would take a while to unpack

THEKILLERWHALE

I had Olympic's tickets for one day of the horse triathlon that she mentions. I had the freakin' dressage in the rain. The crowd was really going nuts for the "medium paced walk". Next day, my sister in law got to see the cross-country part and the freakin' horses were storming through the forest of Versailles, jumping over flaming barrels, etc. Luck of the draw I guess.

THEKILLERWHALE

I definitely share John's skepticism about the use of chariots in war. What positive evidence do we have of their actual use in ancient combat? There are a lot of artistic and literary sources that describe their use (mesopatamian friezes, the Illiad, Roman descriptions of the wars in Britain, etc.) but these could also just be propaganda pieces as they mentioned or literary license on the exoticism of foreign foes. So are there actual instances where chariots were probably deployed in large scale and provided a significant advantage in battle and what are the sources of this information?

David Gyllenhaal

Wonderful episode; you can tell you have a great historian on the podcast when you find yourself slipping into a Proustian reverie for things you've never experienced. I tripped over this account in al-Thaʿlabi's 11th century Arabic legendary compendium just today. Apparently horses are so beautiful and wonderful that they just HAVE to be Arabs themselves—and just as pious as their riders: "The Prophet Muhammad once said that when God wished to create horses He said to the south wind "Indeed I am creating something from you, and I shall make it the glory of My friends and the humiliation of My foes, and the beauty of the people who obey Me." Then the wind said: "My God, my Master, and my Lord, I shall indeed obey." So God pinched off a handful of wind, and created a horse, and said to it: "I have created you Arab, and have made good things to be tied to your fore-lock, and booty to be gathered on your back; and I have inspired your master with affection for you, and have made you fly without wings. You are for pursuit and you are for escape. And I shall place upon your back men who will glorify Me, praise Me and magnify Me. You shall glorify Me when they glorify; and when they repeat 'There is no god but God,' you shall do so; and you shall magnify Me when they magnify." Muhammad said: "There is no glorification, praise, exaltation, or magnification, which the horse's master utters and it hears, that it does not answer likewise."

JoR

Carolyn is extremely similar to Philip Matyszak and, where she speaks effortlessly and fluidly about a topic that can be very difficult to approach. All the guests are good in their own way, but these two in particular seem to be the most clear spoken, similar to John/Gary's writing style. I'm basically echoing all the other comments with this thought. But this is just another friendly reminder to try and get Matty back on the show! I get that the Romans are basically the historical equivalent to WW2 (over-hyped, over-discussed, filled with too many modern comparisons that suck), but at the same time, there really hasn't been a lot of episodes on Rome. Even Phillip's episodes have been on Greece, which has been pretty well covered. On a similar note, John and Mark were completely against WW2 episodes, understandably so. But, once Anibale "broke the seal" on the topic, they've had many more episodes. I think Rome can have a similar trajectory on the show. If we're going to continue to sprinkle in historical episodes as a break from the depressing modern wars (which is a great thing to do), hopefully he can get back on

Ben

download the MP3 , that’s what I did for my mother just now who trains horses

Bodie Tack

Same, particularly the importance of horses in Cortez's war against the Aztec and other tribes of Mexico. The few horses they had were worth their weight in gold, literally. Bernal Diaz in his memoir of the Conquest individually describes each horse they had with them. The fact he could remember them decades afterwards says a lot about the psychological and tactical impact horses had.

Cbo

Forth Eorlingas!!!

Patrick Denison

Thanks guys, I really enjoyed this episode.

Matt Colston

On horse size, people were also smaller.

Anders Scholl

Started this ep expecting it to be sort of filler, man was I wrong. Probably enhanced by my deep ignorance of horses, but what a clear & fascinating episode, as strong a guest as you've ever had.

Jack Ross

We love the horse girl

Jason Thompson

One vote for Alexander the Great and Hellenistic Era!!

Smutticus

Excellent episode. But I'm disappointed people don't use the terms horsetory and horsetorian. It's such a missed opportunity.

Hans Anders

Carolyn mentioned she rode for 80 km in Mongolia. Horses were great for tactics (winning battles). But how important were horses for strategic manoeuvring? Was that how they could efficiently move armies around their vast empire? Absolutely magnificent episode btw.

Jimothy Realname

I am certainly no horse expert, but I have heard it said that the Mongols used frozen rivers as highways for long distance travel

Jimothy Realname

This episode made me consider the perspective of the horse regarding camels. Imagine if humans had evolved alongside hyperintelligent gerbils who used us as cavalry mounts. We work and fight with the gerbils, and in return they feed and care for us. One day, you are going forth with your gerbil and his army to meet the enemy. From afar, it looks like a regular cavalry force, but when you get closer you see that their gerbils are riding freakish pig-men, squealing at you and smelling terrible. It would be the freakiest shit ever. I would bolt too! This is the experience of a horse meeting a camel - a thing so similar in form to you, but yet so alien.

xnfec

I've heard that the only survivor of Custer's Last Stand was a horse. Aptly called Commanche I think.

Jack Sylvia

As to chariots over horses, I’ve heard that horses were originally raised for meat and were much smaller and weaker. They started yoking them to plows and began selectively breeding them to pull rather than carry.

Studio Novaya by Fredrick Edward ; Spandau22 coming 2027

Thank you! Great episode! Would absolutely love to hear one about horses in the Civil War. There are many conflicting fables about it. The story about the horse being afraid of his shadow is an excellent explanation of divergence among humans in training philosophies which carries on today. I ride dressage, as a means of endurance trails; but would never bother with the modern shows because: well, there could be a whole episode on another type of podcast about the economics of how all that works and the way the ultra rich are doing breeding, brokering and training— it is more than pretentious it is just ick. Something that is not discussed often is the fact that dressage was brought by the Spanish to North America, and that a lot of Western riding technique comes from Mexico and thus the Spanish. Really good Western riders, cow cutting, herding, etc. all use dressage fundamentals. I’ve been really curious about anything related to training them to kick on command; not sure if that is just a Hollywood thing? As someone who is often targeted for violence when alone, seems like a useful skill for me to have on the trails. I know that some horses do instinctively guard their humans, but I don’t know anyone who has trained specifically for it. So, horses being used as weapons themselves is interesting and I wonder if any of these armies were doing it? Also modern day mounted police and the way that they are used for crowd control: how did that evolve? Could go on and on with questions, hope that you cover this topic again. Looking for the book!

Studio Novaya by Fredrick Edward ; Spandau22 coming 2027

Horses “adopt,” all kinds of animals into their herds. They don’t have the same ego conflicts that humans do around beings who appear different from them unless there’s a clear threat. Cool fantasy tho.

etienne

"there are more horses today than ever was in history" yeah i guess it probably has something to do with how much food we humans are able to produce these days with high-yield hybrid crops and haber processes and mechanized harvest : ) excellent ep btw, pure vibes

DeadPrince

Yo please have this guest back!!!