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Radio War Nerd EP #502 — Tecumseh, Pt. 2 + Ukraine (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-20 04:26:12
Imported:
2025-02
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Content

Recorded: February 18, 2025

Part 2 of the War Nerd's retelling of Tecumseh's tragi-heroic story (part 1 here), and why he's better remembered than more successful Native American warriors.

First - brief on the latest Ukraine-Trump shitshow.At 26:55 - The War Nerd resumes the Tecumseh story...

Maps:*Shrinking Native American hold on Ohio

Battles in Indiana Territory*William Henry Harrison, looking smug. He'll die within weeks of becoming president, which we'll chalk up to Tecumseh's curse.

Total time: 1:22:44Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

*

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Sound production by Telescope Audio

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Order your print or ebook of John Dolan's new book Erdogan Pizza: Dispatches from a Violent & Grotesque World

Files

Comments

Matt Colston

Considering everything we have seen about Gaza... That map of Ohio looks so familiar.

Soda enthusiast

All the doge stuff reminds me of this perry anderson quote: "That there is no guarantee that even acute hardship must detonate, rather than numb, popular reactions is clear from Russian passivity under the catastrophe of Yeltsin’s rule. "

teh_drewski

Re: Democratic reactions to Luigi, I'm reminded of an old anecdote from former very minor NBA player Brian Scalabrine. Upon being heckled by a fan, he remarked "I'm closer to Michael Jordan than you are to me." So with the Dems - they are closer to being health care executives than they are to being Luigis. They can't capitalise on it politically because they simply don't understand it. They're targets for a future Luigi and they know it.

a clash of purple

I donno man... I see what you're saying, but at the same time, there's no comparison between the suffering inflicted on Americans by the Republicans and that inflicted on Russians by Yeltsin and Clinton. If this is all it takes to stun Americans into passivity, well, I hate to imagine how they'd react to, say, an Operation Barbarossa. And as was mentioned in this episode when they talked about the response to Luigi Mangione executing the healthcare CEO, I really don't think Americans are *numb.* They're just ignoring the stupid fake drama between the Republicans and the Democrats. I think when a real alternative comes along, they'll seize it with an urgency and excitement that will alarm and dismay both parties' leadership.

Hana

Regarding MAGA folks calling in a airstrike on their own neighborhood to get that one liberal... Liberals do the exact same thing to get that one socialist. Or even a diet-socialist like Sanders (claims to be). The pitch of their self-centred hysteria is a match for any Trumper.

fw

Always end up banging this drum, how the solidarity (which makes a lot of internet rightists exceedingly upset) signalling between irish, palestinian and native peoples is very obviously pragmatic and logical, even 'tactical' one (amongst all else). You don't even need any interest in social justice or kindness to see the advantages; those who fantasise about exterminating these groups reactively cohere, identifying themselves as the enemy of more and more people who weren't previously in solidarity with them and so on, too. Tortuguita was killed at an exemplary site for all this, people terrifying local military infrastructure whilst being derided as hippie campus nonsense because there's a lot of community flags and shout outs, etcetera.

Christopher Small

To elaborate on the "Trump education versus income voting, thing: it's largely an age thing. There are a lot of people who entered the workforce when you could get a good job without a college degree or as a college drop out. It's also kind of about the nature of certain jobs. Trump is the candidate of, like, people who inherited car dealerships. self employed petty bourgieous, contractors, and people who work in extractive industries can do pretty well without a higher education. And of course, y'know, cops and people in the security-industrial complex. That really shouldn’t be surprising, since that’s the traditional base of far right and fascist movements.

William

100! As the kids say with their emojis

William

I think climate change is also about weather patterns shifting and you get phenomena you’re not used to, as obvious as it sounds. Also the extremes heightening

William

Re: Ukraine - Trump might actually get the cost of goods to decline with Russia normalization; I don’t think corporations will let go of that profit margin so I would expect corporate profits to rise. With Europe already organized away from Russian gas, and profitable industries already destroyed, I’m not sure how quickly, or if they rebuild those relationships with the east. If Russian gas becomes available again, though, it’s too much of a profit making opportunity to ignore

William

Most of the Russia/soviet hate is because of the goddamn fucking poles

William

Mark: “Many people are asking, ‘where is Congo? Where is the Congo episode?’ And all I can say is that we’re looking into it very strongly and I think we’re close to having a very perfect interview, real soon”

William

Should be said, I think the militiamen still cut and ran at fallen timbers. Thinking of the horseback volunteers galloping away at full tilt back toward the skirmishers, who were at least able to pull back in an orderly manner, as ordered

a clash of purple

It has always been my conviction that Poland shouldn't exist and should never have existed. Poles are an absurd people with an absurd language, and have demonstrated no aptitude for self-governance. Poland should be given to the Czechs and the Slovaks so they have access to the sea. The Polish people will either have to learn a real language, or move to the United States to become cops and steel workers, like the rest of the diaspora.

William

Poland can exist, their moment has been over for centuries. The commonwealth is DONE. The majority of your history has been getting rolled over by stronger nations; you only got a country back because people pitied you like they do a dog with a gimp leg that has to hop everywhere it goes. All the insane anti Russian hate is just a massive “macho guy” overreaction worse than the crybaby lost cause rebels who won’t shut the fuck up about the war of “northern aggression”

The Steel Harvest

Family from upstate New York (the other side of the falls) have relayed to me that this is just part of Winter. That said, anything N of the Gulf Coast is absurd for humans to even live in during Winter to me. I can barely handle these temps in the Great Plains and nobody here knows how to drive in them.

The Steel Harvest

This is insane and I am forced to send it to True Anon for Brace to read to Liz. Please specify the accent you want Brace to butcher while relaying this opinion.

Schaeffer Mallory

The poorest voting democrat probably has to do with the fact that (especially in the south) the poorest are going to be way disproportionately Black

William

Brace’s regular voice works fine

Lord-Admiral of the Pyrenees

We didn’t pronounce it “Tec coom see” but actually “Tec-come-see” no “oohm” sound

Savannakhet

I think we should bring back the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Wot if Lithuania had a Black Sea coast?

Broadway Joe

I live in the same part of Ohio they discuss in this episode and we’ve hardly had any snow this year. Maybe 5-6 inches total. I grew up in Southeast Virginia and we had to cancel a trip there this weekend because they just got 10 inches of snow, which is the second biggest snowstorm in my lifetime.

Broadway Joe

Another thing to note about Wayne’s expedition was that he was much more better at handling logistics and supplies than St. Clair. He kept setting up forts or stockades along the route to Fallen Timbers, which allowed the Legion to stay well supplied and prevented ambushes by the Shawnee-Miami confederacy.

PublicMarkets

I’m dying to know the indoor water park in PA that Mark hated.

ezra

Highly educated people are often also poor given student loans and crappy skilled labor markets. Also fascism is a petty bourgeois / middle class movement. So I’m just saying those various vote breakdowns make sense

Tariq

my high school US History teacher called him “Teh-coom-say”.

Tariq

Poland is a participation trophy (or a “you tried” ribbon) of a country and I’m happy to see someone saying it

Kendall

Have you heard of the “Christ of Europe” trope? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_Europe My extremely Polish husband (a self-loathing Pole, if I can adopt that phrase) explained this concept to me, and suddenly everything about our experience with Poland/Polish people made complete, albeit maddening, sense.

Borvis

You may have heard this one before, but if you grow up in Ohio you are, at one time or another, subjected to the book “A Sorrow in Our Heart,” the title of which is derived from the following quote, supposedly from Tecumseh’s brother, Chiksika: “When a white man kills an Indian in a fair fight it is called honorable, but when an Indian kills a white man in a fair fight it is called murder. When a white army battles Indians and wins it is called a great victory, but if they lose it is called a massacre and bigger armies are raised. If the Indian flees before the advance of such armies, when he tries to return he finds that white men are living where he lived. If he tries to fight off such armies, he is killed and the land is taken anyway. When an Indian is killed, it is a great loss which leaves a gap in our people and a sorrow in our heart; when a white is killed, three or four others step up to take his place and there is no end to it. The white man seeks to conquer nature, to bend it to his will and to use it wastefully until it is all gone and then he simply moves on, leaving the waste behind him and looking for new places to take. The whole white race is a monster who is always hungry and what he eats is land.”

Borvis

They used to have a Blue Jacket outdoor play as well. It probably means something, though I’m not sure what, that the Blue Jacket play completely accepted the myth that Blue Jacket was a white guy. Someone smarter than I can explain all the Freudian weirdness behind that one.

Trazdat

I get what you guys are saying about Ukraine support being an elite phenomenon, but anecdotally I have seen multiple Ukrainian flags in random people’s windows and yards in each of at least five different states since the invasion. Might be far from a majority but there certainly is some grassroots support for backing the Ukrainians to the hilt.

Simon

It’s the same here, in the UK. There’s plenty of support for Ukraine because the establishment/media Russophobic consent manufacturing for this war has been off the charts from the start… and also primed, at a lower background level, since well before the war.

William

Holy shit I have never hated something as quickly as this

IRIDYSCENZIA

You’re doing great! Keep it up! 👏

drizzly_november

I wish John had talked a little about how William T. Sherman got his name. Was it just 19th century romanticism? Or did his father have some connection to the Northwest wars, they were from Ohio after all.

Colin S

One reenactment for this era is Market Fair at Ft Frederick outside of Hagerstown in April

Enoch

Now John needs to watch Pom Poko

Jim Murch

The way I heard the curse of Tesketawa was that he cursed every president elected in a year ending in zero to die in office. You mentioned Harrison's death in office. Then there was Lincoln, Garfield was shot in 1881 and died 2.5 months later. McKinley was shot in 1900, giving us TDR. Harding died of a heart attack in 1923. FDR gave us 3 full terms before succumbing to illness, everyone knows about Kennedy, Reagan and W are left for exercise of the imagination.

Mark Ames

Perry's right about acute hardship not automatically triggering political explosions. But the Russia analogy doesn't work here, not just because of the scale that purple mentions, but also because there was SO much political activity, predominately populist-left, in Russia from 1987-1991, and it all ended with Yeltsin enacting a hardcore neoliberal program that completely destroyed the lives of nearly everyone. So for most people, the problem was politics and pushing for change - that, and trying to find a way to keep from dying.

Mark Ames

rhymes with KalaHelli

drizzly_november

You can count 2020 as another win for ol’ Tenskwatawa, since Biden’s brain died in office.

Allison Newgas

Thank you for this series. I grew up a few miles from the site of the second Prophetstown in Indiana and had only the sketchiest memory of this story. Sadly, like elsewhere in the country, we don’t do much more than name our high schools after these figures and call it good. I went to William Henry Harrison High School and, yes, there’s a Tecumseh High School that we would play sports against. (Though to be fair to the local public education system, I did somehow recall “Tippecanoe and Tyler Too” before you said it.)

Jack

Per Chapo's Hell of Presidents, Henry Harrison died from drinking poop water (the DC sewers of the era ran directly into the city's drinking water)

Mangomoosh

Biden survived the curse of Tippicanoe It has to be the poop water!